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View Full Version : Massachusetts gun owners ramping up for litigation


Nodda Duma
07-30-2010, 8:54 PM
Go Massachusetts!

Looks like they are setting up their own version of CGF. Opportunity for outreach and exchange of lessons learned?


New England's version of Calguns is northeastshooters.com

-Jason

Here's the link, from which I quote the text for your convenience. http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/content/105-Announcing-Commonwealth-Second-Amendment

Today marks a turning point in the history of Second Amendment infringement in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and New England. Commonwealth Second Amendment, Inc (Comm2A), a Massachusetts registered non-profit corporation,* was created to ensure that the birthplace of liberty and this great nation once again becomes a beacon of freedom for individual firearms rights. For years the exercise of this fundamental right by Massachusetts residents has been subject to unfair, unequal, and discriminatory treatment by the law and those responsible with administering the law. Through the efforts of its dedicated founders and with the support of the shooting sports community, Comm2A will work to protect all law abiding citizens from state and local laws, regulations, customs and practices that infringe upon the fundamental right to keep and bear firearms.



Alan Gottlieb of the Second Amendment Foundation (SAF) said he "welcomes the opportunity to work with and support Commonwealth Second Amendment in future litigation and rights education activities in New England." He added "We need organizations like Comm2A in every state."

Board member Derek Hoskins, former US Marine Corps Sergeant and proprietor of Northeastshooters.com is "excited to take on this new challenge in the continued spirit of preserving the Second Amendment rights for local firearms owners in MA and beyond. Over the last 5 years Northeastshooters.com has been host to an ever growing and vibrant community of firearms owners engaged in hobby, competition, hunting and all variety of shooting sports activities. Through this community, efforts such as Comm2A have been made possible."

Over the last 9 months, the founders of Commonwealth Second Amendment have worked diligently to create an organization that has one purpose, to engage in litigation and educational activities protecting the rights and liberties of firearms owners. Comm2A will not be a lobbying organization nor will it engage with the legislature in any way.

In the coming months and years, Commonwealth Second Amendment will be hosting rights conferences to disseminate legal information to all concerned parties interested in standing up for Second Amendment rights as well as engaging in litigation ensuring that firearms owners are free to safely and legally engage their rights under the Second Amendment free from government discrimination and infringement.

* Comm2A is currently seeking a determination of 501(c)(3) non-profit status with the IRS. Donations made prior to a determination of non-profit status may not be tax deductible. However, once 501(c)(3) status has been granted all contributors and supporters will receive acknowledgment of their support.

Our website can be found at http://www.comm2a.org/.

This effort is being led by NES'rs "Knuckle Dragger" (Brent Carlton), "Terraformer" (Thomas Bolioli) and Rob Boudrie. Derek is a board member as is NES'r Kimmie1911 (Donna Major). "hicksonj" (Joe Hickson) is providing valuable legal support for the organization.

thayne
07-30-2010, 9:11 PM
nice. maybe we should organize and annual softball match :D We could totally take em

Blackhawk556
07-30-2010, 9:16 PM
Yes we can beat them :)
I'm in :)

jb7706
07-30-2010, 9:41 PM
nice. maybe we should organize and annual softball match :D We could totally take em

Why goof off with bats and balls when we can use guns and bullets? A long range team, shotgun team, action pistol team... See where this is going? I happen to know of a range that will host. :)

glbtrottr
07-30-2010, 11:11 PM
Why goof off with bats and balls when we can use guns and bullets? A long range team, shotgun team, action pistol team... See where this is going? I happen to know of a range that will host. :)

I don't know, lads...

...having lived in the Commonwealth till not long ago, I gotta tell ya...

Getting a Licence to Carry (LTC) is unbelievably easy compared to California.
Why? Let's look at "Good Cause"....
....nearly all permits read: For all lawful purposes.

Issuing authority?
The Chief of Police, the vast majority of who are happy to issue...with some exceptions in the town of Boston proper, Newton, Brookline, and the more liberal little towns who're a little more affluent and have an excess of soccer moms doing the voting "for the children". The rest? All comfortably pro 2A.

You can own a Machine Gun, for Pete's sake! In the Harvard Gun Club, feel free to shoot full auto at the range.

Gun clubs are prevalent. I belonged to Hopkinton and Sportmen's. within 10 minutes of my place, a full 100 yard shooting range - not far, but adequate. I think the adjacent 8 towns each had "Rod and Gun" clubs...

What kind of shooters?
Quite a few white feather boys in the New England crew. Many who love to count fingers and toes in Mildots and MOA's, a substantial IDPA and IPSC presence who shoots twice a week, and several well accomplished Shotgun lads.

Competing with that much range and 2A acceptance when you can't find a 500 yard range within 90 minutes of our residence to keep things oiled and running is a little unrealistic and less than prudent.

Now, their baseball and football teams suck, as their major league soccer team, but ...:)

CalNRA
07-30-2010, 11:19 PM
I don't know, lads...

huh.

you can't even buy rifle ammo unless you have a gun owner's card which requires background checks, fingerprinting, and an application to the state police. You even need to get a license to buy pepper spray.

Can a visitor bring a gun and ammo to Mass.?



I am glad to see Mass gun owners getting organized. They have a lot of work ahead of them.

Knuckle Dragger
07-31-2010, 6:07 AM
I’m very happy to say that our efforts here in the Commonwealth were inspired in part by the successes of the CalGuns Foundation. If we can replicate even a fraction of the success enjoyed by CGF we will have made a dramatic difference for Massachusetts guns owners. We’ve been quietly putting this thing together over the last nine months and still have some ground to cover before we can actually go public with a case. One thing I’ve come to appreciate is just how much time and effort is required to launch an organization like this. I hope all you CalGunners appreciate how lucky you are to have CGF and support your home team.

On the surfaces 2nd amendment infringement in MA looks very similar to that found in CA. We have an AWB, discretionary licensing, a ‘safe’ handgun roster, and barriers to purchasing ammunition on-line. In reality, some things are better and some are worse.

Our AWB is a clumsy rehash of the expired federal ban, not enforce, and so poorly understood by its authors that they don’t understand why ARs are still on the store shelves. A license is required to own or possess any firearm, but by default the License to Carry required to own handguns is a CCW unless the chief restricts it. Many, perhaps most, do not. In addition to a roster, we have AG consumer protection regulations that gives the AG almost unlimited power to decide what handguns are sold in MA. There is not standard or testing. The manufacturer tells the AG that their guns comply and then the AG sues if they disagree. Also under the guise of ‘consumer protection’ the AG has sued several companies for shipping ammo to MA without a state issued license (which is not available) resulting in an effective ban. Non-US citizens are barred from possessing any firearm other than a ‘non-large capacity’ rile of shotgun. However aliens residing outside of MA can get an non-res LTC (WTF?)

So, we have our work cut out for us. MA is a target-rich environment.
Still there are good things. Even as a Boston resident I can carry more easily than just about any resident of a major CA city. Our list of sensitive places is very short. Still we’re hamstrung by VERY low rates of gun ownership. The most nefarious aspect about our legal and regulatory scheme is that it has caused so many people to just give up being or become gun owners.


nice. maybe we should organize and annual softball match :D We could totally take em

Softball match? I don’t know we can field a whole team yet. What about a team 3-gun match?


Issuing authority?
The Chief of Police, the vast majority of who are happy to issue...with some exceptions in the town of Boston proper, Newton, Brookline, and the more liberal little towns who're a little more affluent and have an excess of soccer moms doing the voting "for the children". The rest? All comfortably pro 2A.


I wouldn't go that far. Most chiefs still want the control even if they do routinely issue. The chiefs and towns aren't the problem, the law is the problem.

You can own a Machine Gun, for Pete's sake! In the Harvard Gun Club, feel free to shoot full auto at the range.

Thanks for the props about Harvard Sportsmen’s Club – it’s our home turf.
huh.

you can't even buy rifle ammo unless you have a gun owner's card which requires background checks, fingerprinting, and an application to the state police. You even need to get a license to buy pepper spray.


Can you believe that?

Can a visitor bring a gun and ammo to Mass.?

Yes

Thanks again for all the kind words, we look forward to posting our successes on CalGuns.net.
Oh, did I mention I want a CA non-resident permit? ;)

Brent Carlton
President, Comm2A.org

CalNRA
07-31-2010, 6:17 AM
Yes


WHat I mean is, does the visitor have to get a permit from the state before hand to bring in guns and ammo(ala Illinois, New York, etc) or can they just drive/fly/sail in?

Gray Peterson
07-31-2010, 6:56 AM
*waves at Knuckle Dragger*

Btw, been helping these folks too. :)

press1280
07-31-2010, 7:08 AM
I don't know, lads...

...having lived in the Commonwealth till not long ago, I gotta tell ya...

Getting a Licence to Carry (LTC) is unbelievably easy compared to California.
Why? Let's look at "Good Cause"....
....nearly all permits read: For all lawful purposes.

Issuing authority?
The Chief of Police, the vast majority of who are happy to issue...with some exceptions in the town of Boston proper, Newton, Brookline, and the more liberal little towns who're a little more affluent and have an excess of soccer moms doing the voting "for the children". The rest? All comfortably pro 2A.

You can own a Machine Gun, for Pete's sake! In the Harvard Gun Club, feel free to shoot full auto at the range.

Gun clubs are prevalent. I belonged to Hopkinton and Sportmen's. within 10 minutes of my place, a full 100 yard shooting range - not far, but adequate. I think the adjacent 8 towns each had "Rod and Gun" clubs...

What kind of shooters?
Quite a few white feather boys in the New England crew. Many who love to count fingers and toes in Mildots and MOA's, a substantial IDPA and IPSC presence who shoots twice a week, and several well accomplished Shotgun lads.

Competing with that much range and 2A acceptance when you can't find a 500 yard range within 90 minutes of our residence to keep things oiled and running is a little unrealistic and less than prudent.

Now, their baseball and football teams suck, as their major league soccer team, but ...:)

My understanding is Mass has several "LTC" forms-1 for home ownership(to/from range,gun store,exc.) and an unrestricted "LTC A" I believe. The ones I spoke to say it's similiar to CA-city areas don't issue unrestricted A's, rural areas do. The non-residents have had pretty good success getting unrestricted A's. Process is a PITA.
Do I have that right?

Knuckle Dragger
07-31-2010, 12:30 PM
WHat I mean is, does the visitor have to get a permit from the state before hand to bring in guns and ammo(ala Illinois, New York, etc) or can they just drive/fly/sail in?

The law makes a general exception for competition, hunting, and I believe training, and we haven't had any problems in those areas. If you're bringing a gun just to have it you probably want to get a NR LTC ($100, in-person) or have a local friend keep it for you.

*waves at Knuckle Dragger*


Hi Gray!

My understanding is Mass has several "LTC" forms-1 for home ownership(to/from range,gun store,exc.) and an unrestricted "LTC A" I believe. The ones I spoke to say it's similiar to CA-city areas don't issue unrestricted A's, rural areas do. The non-residents have had pretty good success getting unrestricted A's. Process is a PITA.
Do I have that right?

Close. You do need to have a permit to possess or purchase any firearms or ammunition.

FID - Shall issue. Good for low-cap long guns, ammunition, components, and chemical sprays.
LTC/B - may issue, adds large-cap long guns, and low cap handguns. Rarely issued.
LTC/B - may issue, adds large-cap handguns. Can be issued with restrictions (no CCW) or without (CCW).


The application fee for all three is $100 and they're good for up to 6 years. Under 'suitability' chiefs are free to add additional requirements such as letters of reference, range memberships, range tests, doctor's note, etc. They can also create their own prohibited individuals such as persons who have exercised your 5th amendment rights or who have ever been the subject of a restraining order. MA courts have upheld all off these requirements and denials. Remember we're not talking about CCW permits were talking about just being able to own a handgun.

Additionally:

Aliens residing in MA may apply for an 'Alien FID' - $100 good for one year.
Non-residents (including aliens) may apply for a NR LTC - $100 good for one year.

Nodda Duma
07-31-2010, 2:44 PM
Hey Knuckle Dragger,

Are you concentrating on MA, or are you looking into litigation in other NE states?

press1280
07-31-2010, 6:25 PM
RI would have to be looked also for carry permits.

Fjold
07-31-2010, 7:36 PM
Welcome Knuckle dragger, I grew up in Holyoke and lived on Westover AFB later in life when I was in the Navy.

I remember back in the 70's when the law was that people travelling through the State had to stop at the first police station on their route, register their guns with the cops there and then stop at the last police station on their way out of the state and get their guns checked again.

I had a firearm card then for my hunting rifles.

Knuckle Dragger
08-01-2010, 6:19 AM
Hey Knuckle Dragger,

Are you concentrating on MA, or are you looking into litigation in other NE states?
RI would have to be looked also for carry permits.

MA is our priority at the moment, but we will expand for the right case. Of course RI is still in the first circuit :). I managed to get a RI permit easily enough, but I'm the exception.

Welcome Knuckle dragger, I grew up in Holyoke and lived on Westover AFB later in life when I was in the Navy.

I remember back in the 70's when the law was that people travelling through the State had to stop at the first police station on their route, register their guns with the cops there and then stop at the last police station on their way out of the state and get their guns checked again.

I had a firearm card then for my hunting rifles.

Thankfully it's not nearly that bad anymore. I can't see the cops putting up with a plan like this.