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diginit
07-30-2010, 7:48 PM
I was told that vehicle window gun racks were illegal in Ca. due to possible theft and/or public display of firearms, Can anyone elaborate upon this? I was also told that in my home, Any gun displayed on a rack must be cable locked to the wall or made unable to fire. T or F?
Just attempting to distinguish fact from FUD. TIA

Ed_Hazard
07-30-2010, 7:52 PM
In the car, not sure about the rack itself unless you actually have a gun in it. If you do have a gun in it then all the usual transport/brandishing laws would apply.
In the home I guess if you have kids it matters as you do have to store them in a manner that keep them secure from children. See the Chino Hills tragedy thread someome poste earlier to find out why.

diginit
07-30-2010, 8:03 PM
OK, Branishing a weapon is using it an an assaulting manner. Not a simple display. And a long gun needs no lock or case in a vehicle providing it is not loaded. As far as kids go, There are none in my home, But I do have a trigger lock on it, and I hear enough bad news on channel 2. But I was told that these are anti theft laws. Like leaving your car keys in the ignition at the grocery. You would still be cited even though your car was stolen.

wjc
07-30-2010, 8:03 PM
I wouldn't have a gun rack whether it's legal or not...too much bait for someone to steal the gun. I'm sure they are frowned upon by law enforcement.

For storing at home, I'd just get a safe or a DOJ certified locking cabinet like a
Stack-on. It's more convenient than using the locks and what-not.

Having children in the house is another consideration...it's big trouble if they get their hands on the guns.

steadyrock
07-30-2010, 8:12 PM
Smells like FUD to me. There are no laws requiring any kind of locks inside the home, only laws that state you're in deep scat if a kid gets ahold of it and hurts someone with it - you can decide what's best for your own situation.

Regarding the gun rack, I've never heard of such a law. 12025 only covers firearms capable of being concealed upon the person. Let me guess, you heard this at a gun store?

diginit
07-30-2010, 8:20 PM
Smelled funny to me too. Heard it at the range, Not much better than a shop, I know. That's why I asked. But I haven't read the 20 or so volumes of the Ca PC. It's bigger than some encyclopedia sets. With half as many facts.

wjc
07-30-2010, 8:21 PM
I just took a quick trip through the CA Penal Code.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

I couldn't find anything regarding gun racks.

You may want to look at section 12087-12088.9 regarding safes and locking devices.

diginit
07-30-2010, 8:33 PM
Thanks, I think I found it... (I) to (IV) got to me. Hard....
(E) The licensee shall prohibit any agent who the licensee knows
or reasonably should know is within a class of persons prohibited
from possessing firearms pursuant to Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code,
from coming into contact with any firearm that is not secured and
from accessing any key, combination, code, or other means to open any
of the locking devices described in clause (ii) of subparagraph (G)
of this paragraph.
(F) Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as preventing a
local government from enacting an ordinance imposing additional
conditions on licensees with regard to agents.
(G) For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall
apply:
(i) An "agent" is an employee of the licensee.
(ii) "Secured" means a firearm that is made inoperable in one or
more of the following ways:
(I) The firearm is inoperable because it is secured by a firearms
safety device listed on the department's roster of approved firearms
safety devices pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 12088 of this
chapter.
(II) The firearm is stored in a locked gun safe or long-gun safe
which meets the standards for department-approved gun safes set forth
in Section 12088.2.
(III) The firearm is stored in a distinct locked room or area in
the building that is used to store firearms that can only be unlocked
by a key, a combination, or similar means.
(IV) The firearm is secured with a hardened steel rod or cable
that is at least one-eighth of an inch in diameter through the
trigger guard of the firearm. The steel rod or cable shall be secured
with a hardened steel lock that has a shackle. The lock and shackle
shall be protected or shielded from the use of a boltcutter and the
rod or cable shall be anchored in a manner that prevents the removal
of the firearm from the premises.


This basically says that I am responsible if a criminal (prohibited person) steals a firearm that is not completely secured in Fort Knox or a bank vault. Do I read this right? Which idiot writes this stuff anyways????

steadyrock
07-30-2010, 8:53 PM
No. 12071 deals with FFL's, which I assume is not what you're talking about. Visit http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting for a clear explanation on the rules of transport, and if you're still wanting more read 12020-12040 (http://www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php) that define unlawful transport. Gun racks are not mentioned, but the rules about long guns are pretty straightforward (e.g., "unloaded").

I'm still not sure where the guy at the range came up with the bit about trigger locks in the home and so forth; there just isn't any such law.

edwardm
07-30-2010, 8:56 PM
Locked storage:

Please see Cal Penal Code 12035 and 12036 for your answer regarding locked storage in the home. These two sections of code deal specifically with children (defined as a person <18 years of age). They also exempt the firearm (or pistol, for 12036) owner from liability under certain situations - see 12035(c) and 12036(e).

Gun racks (limiting this to long arms since 12025, 12026 et seq would negate most of this discussion in most cases):

Brandishing a firearm is defined in Cal Penal Code 417(a)(2) as:

(2) Every person who, except in self-defense, in the presence of
any other person, draws or exhibits any firearm, whether loaded or
unloaded, in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, or who in any
manner, unlawfully uses a firearm in any fight or quarrel is
punishable as follows...

I know of no case law to suggest or even remotely hint that a rifle in a rack is exhibition in a rude, angry or threatening manner in and of itself. Also note that this does not address the Gun Free School Zone law (Federal) as it applies to all firearms (not just concealable ones like the CA GFSZ law deals with).


Thanks, I think I found it...
(E) The licensee shall prohibit any agent who the licensee knows
or reasonably should know is within a class of persons prohibited
from possessing firearms pursuant to Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code, or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code,
from coming into contact with any firearm that is not secured and
from accessing any key, combination, code, or other means to open any
of the locking devices described in clause (ii) of subparagraph (G)
of this paragraph.
(F) Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as preventing a
local government from enacting an ordinance imposing additional
conditions on licensees with regard to agents.
(G) For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall
apply:
(i) An "agent" is an employee of the licensee.
(ii) "Secured" means a firearm that is made inoperable in one or
more of the following ways:
(I) The firearm is inoperable because it is secured by a firearms
safety device listed on the department's roster of approved firearms
safety devices pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 12088 of this
chapter.
(II) The firearm is stored in a locked gun safe or long-gun safe
which meets the standards for department-approved gun safes set forth
in Section 12088.2.
(III) The firearm is stored in a distinct locked room or area in
the building that is used to store firearms that can only be unlocked
by a key, a combination, or similar means.
(IV) The firearm is secured with a hardened steel rod or cable
that is at least one-eighth of an inch in diameter through the
trigger guard of the firearm. The steel rod or cable shall be secured
with a hardened steel lock that has a shackle. The lock and shackle
shall be protected or shielded from the use of a boltcutter and the
rod or cable shall be anchored in a manner that prevents the removal
of the firearm from the premises.


This basically says that I am responsible if a criminal (prohibited person) steals a firearm that is not completely secured in Fort Knox or a bank vault. Do I read this right? Which idiot writes this stuff anyways????

steadyrock
07-30-2010, 9:11 PM
...and in comes edwardm with the concise answers and relevant PC. :thumbsup:

diginit
07-30-2010, 9:26 PM
...and in comes edwardm with the concise answers and relevant PC. :thumbsup:

And now I know who to believe in order to recieve a non-FUD (honest and true) answer. Thanks ALL! I must say, You guys are good!

freonr22
07-30-2010, 9:28 PM
you have what, 37 guns in racks in your living room?

edwardm
07-30-2010, 10:54 PM
Just trying to do my part and help folks out with accurate, timely info.

...and in comes edwardm with the concise answers and relevant PC. :thumbsup:

shooting4life
07-31-2010, 8:51 AM
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=tpq_lR8FTh0

packnrat
07-31-2010, 9:04 AM
if you get out to the real Ca not the city's you will see gun racks in pickup trucks..and they will have a rifle in it.
the ranchers use them to kill yotes, and sadly stray dogs that people have dumped.

but alas this area is getting smaller as the city folk are infesting moving into the ranch country.


.

ChuckBooty
07-31-2010, 11:12 AM
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=tpq_lR8FTh0

:confused:

edwardm
07-31-2010, 6:07 PM
Well, I don't live in a big city, but I'm only about 25 miles from SF in the 'burbs. It's sort of weird, because for such a liberal nannyland, my neighbors are a bunch of gun-toting, NRA-bumpersticker, rifle-rack-in-the-pickup having folks. Kinda like me. :)

if you get out to the real Ca not the city's you will see gun racks in pickup trucks..and they will have a rifle in it.
the ranchers use them to kill yotes, and sadly stray dogs that people have dumped.

but alas this area is getting smaller as the city folk are infesting moving into the ranch country.


.