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View Full Version : BREAKING NEWS! PECHANGA GUN SHOW CANCELLED!


Wonderwhippet
07-30-2010, 4:21 PM
Just received word that the Pechanga Gun Show scheduled for August 7-8 has been cancelled by order of the DOJ! No further details available at this moment.

muritku
07-30-2010, 4:25 PM
man that sucks. I was planning to go too.

Maltese Falcon
07-30-2010, 4:26 PM
I thought Indian property had "sovereign nation" status?

.

E Pluribus Unum
07-30-2010, 4:29 PM
How can the California DOJ restrict constitutionally protected lawful commerce?

ScottB
07-30-2010, 4:40 PM
Source? Confirmation? I can find no information about this

Ed_Hazard
07-30-2010, 4:41 PM
Could it be the gaming commision, something to do w/firearms and the casino?

Big Jake
07-30-2010, 4:50 PM
That sucks!

famas619
07-30-2010, 5:06 PM
Now what?

Maltese Falcon
07-30-2010, 5:09 PM
Maybe give these guys a call...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=318106

Elite Firearms Unltd of Laguna Niguel is promoting a gun show at Pechanga Resort and Casino in Temecula, Ca on August 7, 8, 2010.
Admission is $12, parking is free and table space for vendors is $110. FV spaces are available. Mention this ad for $1.00 off admission.

Pechanga is located at 4500 Pechanga Parkway in Temecula, Ca
For more info contact BJ at Elite Firearms, 949-354-2448

Elite Firearms Unltd
2806 Forbes Road S, Ste D
Laguna Niguel, Ca 92677
949-364-2448
elitefirearms10@sbcglobal.net
elitefirearmsunltd.com .

CSACANNONEER
07-30-2010, 5:19 PM
If it is true, it might have to do with the "sovereign nation" thing. It might not be considered legal for California residents to deal in firearms there. Or, it could be the fact that the niether the US gubmit nor any state gubmit wants indians anywhere near guns??????

Ed_Hazard
07-30-2010, 5:26 PM
Maybe give these guys a call...



.

They are closed, left message regarding this thread, hopefully they will clear it up.

OCArmory
07-30-2010, 6:10 PM
It is true we were notified today that the show was canceled by the DOJ at the last minute. Hopefully Bob and BJ will be able to recoup some of their money from Pechanga.
Mike

bigcalidave
07-30-2010, 6:19 PM
It is true, and it's not because of the DOJ. The great folks at Elite called DOJ, who categorically denied any involvement. This was a decision by the people that run the casino, and it is extremely poor timing on their part. I am working on putting the show organizers in touch with CGF, to see what help can be offered.

E Pluribus Unum
07-30-2010, 6:19 PM
It is true we were notified today that the show was canceled by the DOJ at the last minute. Hopefully Bob and BJ will be able to recoup some of their money from Pechanga.
Mike

Since when does the DOJ have to approve gun shows?

stitchnicklas
07-30-2010, 6:59 PM
well i am now boycotting anything and everything that is Pechanga for violating 2A RIGHTS

E Pluribus Unum
07-30-2010, 7:04 PM
well i am now boycotting anything and everything that is Pechanga for violating 2A RIGHTS

They are not violating anyone's "rights". No one has a "right" to be there. They are not being gun friendly, but the 2A only protects you against the government, not private land owners.

CSACANNONEER
07-30-2010, 7:12 PM
well i am now boycotting anything and everything that is Pechanga for violating 2A RIGHTS

I'll boycot you for boycotting a bussiness that is exercising it's LEGAL RIGHT to run it's bussiness any way it sees fit. Come on, you need to respect (not agree with) Pechenga's RIGHT to choose. You also have the right to choose not to do bussiness with them but, they are not violating anyone's rights.

bigcalidave
07-30-2010, 7:19 PM
WTF Guys! How about, Pechanga had a contract to have the gun show until this morning, when they called and said that DOJ told them they can't have a gun show there, a WEEK before the show!! At least show some heart, we had a lot of good people involved in this, there was going to be a great Calguns presence, lots of vendors from all over the country. Maybe stitch didn't word it right, but can we for ONCE focus on the real problem, instead of the self policing??? Get PISSED!!! When people don't get pissed, nothing changes!

Doheny
07-30-2010, 7:24 PM
Get PISSED!!! When people don't get pissed, nothing changes!

Get pissed at who? Still not sure who canceled it/why it was canceled.

stitchnicklas
07-30-2010, 7:48 PM
I'll boycot you for boycotting a bussiness that is exercising it's LEGAL RIGHT to run it's bussiness any way it sees fit. Come on, you need to respect (not agree with) Pechenga's RIGHT to choose. You also have the right to choose not to do bussiness with them but, they are not violating anyone's rights.

you can boycott me all you want,i do not respect any business that operates that way,pechanga or any our business,2a or not should not do business like this.i will boycott any business i want..especially if they do not have notice up of cancellation on their website.

E Pluribus Unum
07-30-2010, 10:29 PM
WTF Guys! How about, Pechanga had a contract to have the gun show until this morning, when they called and said that DOJ told them they can't have a gun show there, a WEEK before the show!! At least show some heart, we had a lot of good people involved in this, there was going to be a great Calguns presence, lots of vendors from all over the country. Maybe stitch didn't word it right, but can we for ONCE focus on the real problem, instead of the self policing??? Get PISSED!!! When people don't get pissed, nothing changes!

All that may be true... but when you start ranting about your rights being violated, it sounds like wining. Get mad... boycott all you want... protest... do all of that because that is good. Do not stand on a soap box and mention "rights" because none were violated.

stitchnicklas
07-30-2010, 10:52 PM
this story is going in muti forums maybe merge it

bigcalidave
07-30-2010, 11:13 PM
Did this thread get moved, merged then UN merged? It's getting confusing!

faterikcartman
07-30-2010, 11:20 PM
What the heck? Man, that is the ONE Indian casino that is nice and even has a great concert hall. I was definitely going to go. Would like to know what happened.

xibunkrlilkidsx
07-30-2010, 11:30 PM
ugh freaking lame. wanted to go to that show on sunday...


waiting on a release from either the Host or Pechanga.

Sajedene
07-31-2010, 12:31 AM
This sucks. :( I was trying to figure out if I can go for my birthday and maybe buy something.

incredablehefey
07-31-2010, 12:44 AM
just think how many people are going to show up for the gun show, and after driving out there, are they going to just turn around or are they going to go inside and dump a little money that they brought for guns or ammo??
i think that it was a good plan, tons of free advertising(from the gun show promoter) and i will guarantee 100's of people who show up with no idea that the show was canceled!

Munk
07-31-2010, 1:54 AM
Add this to the list of reasons i'm starting to hate pechanga. I think I'll go way, way, wayyyyyyy out of my way to go to Barona/laughlin/anywhere in Vegas, instead of going to pechanga.

Is there grounds for a lawsuit on this? Breech of contract seems pretty solid, especially since the DOJ wasn't really involved and didn't shut it down. Although either group could be lying. Pechanga might lie about DOJ shutdown just so they can end it without accepting blame. DOJ people that were called might be lying inadvertently by being uninformed about what someone said to pechanga. Depending on the answer, Pechanga may be on the hook for breech, or nothing happens if there is a true legal issue with having a gunshow at that location, or the DOJ needs to be kicked in the head for being jerks.

OleCuss
07-31-2010, 6:01 AM
Don't be too sure about breach of contract. Assuming that there was a formal contract, a lot would depend on how the contract was worded and exactly how and why the show was canceled.

Without knowing more, I'd not recommend boycotting the place. I mean, shucks, it might be something like the gun show people were supposed to buy liability insurance and failed to do so. It could be any number of things which could be very valid and which we simply don't know about.

I guess you have every right to boycott them if you want, though. Heck, I'm already boycotting all Indian casinos - OK, I just have never gone to a casino and don't gamble. . . Actually, this might be why a casino should want a gun show - they might get some people like me (who'd otherwise never set foot on their property) to show up and maybe decide to engage from time to time in their other "attractions".

Ford8N
07-31-2010, 6:25 AM
Or, it could be the fact that the niether the US gubmit nor any state gubmit wants indians anywhere near guns??????


Wounded Knee....extremely sensitive subject back in the Dakota's.:eek:

bollero
07-31-2010, 7:10 AM
This sucks and u wanted to buy 5000+ of ammo...

Dr.Lou
08-01-2010, 6:54 AM
Regarding sovereignty, California is one of six Public Law 280 states, and thus only have limited sovereignty. This basically means that in 1953 Congress, who has plenary power over all Native Americans, decided they didn't want to police Natives so they delegated this authority to the county sheriff, who would be reimbursed - 44 of the states were smart enough not to fall for that one; California was one of the six that were stupid enough.

However, I don't think this is the reason for the cancellation of the show. It's more likely a violation of the Tribe's compact with the State.

advocatusdiaboli
08-01-2010, 10:19 AM
I'll boycot you for boycotting a bussiness that is exercising it's LEGAL RIGHT to run it's bussiness any way it sees fit. Come on, you need to respect (not agree with) Pechenga's RIGHT to choose. You also have the right to choose not to do bussiness with them but, they are not violating anyone's rights.

^ This. There is a difference between people who try to take your right away because they don't want firearms and people who choose not to be involved with firearms themselves only and let you be. This sounds like the latter and unless we want to feed the "belicose gun nut" myth perpetuated by those who want to quash our rights, lets be civil and respectful.

Legasat
08-01-2010, 10:26 AM
Need more details before I form an opinion...

CSACANNONEER
08-01-2010, 10:30 AM
you can boycott me all you want,i do not respect any business that operates that way,pechanga or any our business,2a or not should not do business like this.i will boycott any business i want..especially if they do not have notice up of cancellation on their website.

Those are valid reasons. But, when you accused them of violating your 2A rights, you were off base.

-hanko
08-01-2010, 11:17 AM
Need more details before I form an opinion...
As does everyone who's posted before you.

Knee-jerk reaction = fail.

Sit back and relax until the entire story unfolds, then you can knee-jerk if necessary:sleeping:.

-hanko

HowardW56
08-01-2010, 12:43 PM
Need more details before I form an opinion...


:iagree:

P08
08-01-2010, 1:22 PM
I was looking forward to this, now am very disappointed. I will never set foot in that place again, nor will any of my family.

SuperSet
08-01-2010, 1:27 PM
Just FYI.. someone at CalGuns might want to remove that front-page sticky about Pechanga.

thayne
08-01-2010, 3:33 PM
Don't be too sure about breach of contract. Assuming that there was a formal contract, a lot would depend on how the contract was worded and exactly how and why the show was canceled.

Without knowing more, I'd not recommend boycotting the place. I mean, shucks, it might be something like the gun show people were supposed to buy liability insurance and failed to do so. It could be any number of things which could be very valid and which we simply don't know about.

I guess you have every right to boycott them if you want, though. Heck, I'm already boycotting all Indian casinos - OK, I just have never gone to a casino and don't gamble. . . Actually, this might be why a casino should want a gun show - they might get some people like me (who'd otherwise never set foot on their property) to show up and maybe decide to engage from time to time in their other "attractions".

Those casinos are shady. I dont gamble and would never have gone to one, but a friend wanted to meet at one for lunch so I went.

I couldnt find her, so I sent a few text messages. Waited a while then gave up and got some lunch. While eating one of their "security" guys comes up and starts drilling me as to what I was doing there. He totally treated me like I was a criminal, simply because I was A) not gambling and B) texting on my phone. So Anyway I find out later that the girl I was supposed to meet had her phone confiscated and was escorted off the premises for doing exactly what I was doing. That's why i couldnt find her there. Never again will i go to an Indian casino for any reason!

OleCuss
08-01-2010, 3:52 PM
.
.
.
Never again will i go to an Indian casino for any reason!

That's a pretty good reason!

Of course, I suspect there may be a fair number of other non-Indian casinos which might behave similarly. Best to avoid casinos altogether.

I've thought it might be interesting to go to a casino and just people watch. I'd not thought about the idea that security might take exception to that plan.

Oh, well, I've known people who've lost tens of thousands of dollars at casinos and never known anyone who was a net winner - except for one guy who might've been telling the truth when he said he was a card counter and could win pretty consistently at poker (and would then be kicked out of the casino).

clay32
08-01-2010, 4:46 PM
This is a bummer, their (Elite) show looked to have a lot of promise. I had three family members on board to go to Pechanga for the weekend (supposed to have a great golf course and spa for the ladies) I hope they (Pechanga) know that they lost some serious business by calling this off.

thayne
08-01-2010, 4:48 PM
That's a pretty good reason!

Of course, I suspect there may be a fair number of other non-Indian casinos which might behave similarly. Best to avoid casinos altogether.

I've thought it might be interesting to go to a casino and just people watch. I'd not thought about the idea that security might take exception to that plan.

Oh, well, I've known people who've lost tens of thousands of dollars at casinos and never known anyone who was a net winner - except for one guy who might've been telling the truth when he said he was a card counter and could win pretty consistently at poker (and would then be kicked out of the casino).
I think the only reason I didnt get kicked out is because I was spending some money by eating there, my story meshed with hers and I didnt cop an attitude with him. I left as soon as i was done eating.

You should try your people watching plan. I'd be curious to see how long till they single you out. I think the most that would happen is they would kick you out.

OleCuss
08-01-2010, 7:46 PM
.
.
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You should try your people watching plan. I'd be curious to see how long till they single you out. I think the most that would happen is they would kick you out.

I think the nearest is 45 minutes away. I don't think I'll care enough to try it out.

Lulfas
08-01-2010, 9:16 PM
That's a pretty good reason!

Of course, I suspect there may be a fair number of other non-Indian casinos which might behave similarly. Best to avoid casinos altogether.

I've thought it might be interesting to go to a casino and just people watch. I'd not thought about the idea that security might take exception to that plan.

Oh, well, I've known people who've lost tens of thousands of dollars at casinos and never known anyone who was a net winner - except for one guy who might've been telling the truth when he said he was a card counter and could win pretty consistently at poker (and would then be kicked out of the casino).

Slightly offtopic, and maybe I'm just too stupid to figure it out, but how in the heck are you going to count cards in poker? I guess you could do it in video poker, where you're able to see every available card, but with only 5 cards missing from a deck I doubt you could create enough of a shift in the count to give you something. In actual table poker, you just won't know enough information to get beyond very basic odds, which is exactly how poker is played.

ke6guj
08-01-2010, 9:25 PM
I assumed that he meant card counting in BJ, not poker.

Munk
08-01-2010, 11:16 PM
the loss of this gunshow bums me out even more after I went to the ontario show.

There are so few guns. Very little that was rare/unusual. It amounted to a bunch of Mosin and similar vintage stuff that's sold at Big 5, and a (small) pile of AR style rifles. There were some AKs, a few AK flats for sale, a couple of random .416 and .338 lapua. Then the usual spread of common glocks, revolvers, and a few pistols.

Most of the show left me feeling very sad. I think I'll get myself an 03FFL, and start hunting for goodies out of state, where the guns flow like wine and there are more "hi-cap" mags than you can imagine.

chefdude
08-01-2010, 11:20 PM
Having worked for the Lame *** Indian gaming trade for a while...each tribe has a pact with the state and the gaming commision, this show may violate some of the terms in that Pact....I know that working in a kitchen there were things we were not allowed to do even if it pertained to cooking, and it was because of gaming....

OleCuss
08-02-2010, 3:06 AM
I assumed that he meant card counting in BJ, not poker.

You're probably right. I've literally never played poker, BJ, or any other game played in a casino so I'm no expert at all on any of that stuff and can easily confuse that kind of thing.

jaymz
08-02-2010, 5:43 AM
If their pact with the state does not allow gun shows, why would they schedule one in the first place? Something ain't right with this scenario.

jl123
08-02-2010, 6:19 AM
That's a pretty good reason!

Of course, I suspect there may be a fair number of other non-Indian casinos which might behave similarly. Best to avoid casinos altogether.

I've thought it might be interesting to go to a casino and just people watch. I'd not thought about the idea that security might take exception to that plan.

Oh, well, I've known people who've lost tens of thousands of dollars at casinos and never known anyone who was a net winner - except for one guy who might've been telling the truth when he said he was a card counter and could win pretty consistently at poker (and would then be kicked out of the casino).

As you are playing against other players in poker and not the card room, they do not kick you out for winning. Basic statistics and math are very helpful......card counting in poker I've only heard of from people that have no idea what on earth they're talking about.

Poker rooms make their money from what is called rake.....or sometimes they actually rent the chairs by the hour. Rake is basically a percentage of each pot. So if a card room has 5% rakje and a pot is $100. The winner of the hand actually takes down $95 and the house gets $5. Rake is generally capped, so that the card room can make only a certain amount if the pot gets over a certain size.

I'm a winning poker player and have been for a long time. I wouldn't even look at a blackjack table or any of the other table games out there......throwing money away IMO.

Anyone want to invite me to their home game?

Andy Taylor
08-02-2010, 7:06 AM
That's a pretty good reason!

Of course, I suspect there may be a fair number of other non-Indian casinos which might behave similarly. Best to avoid casinos altogether.

I've thought it might be interesting to go to a casino and just people watch. I'd not thought about the idea that security might take exception to that plan.

Oh, well, I've known people who've lost tens of thousands of dollars at casinos and never known anyone who was a net winner - except for one guy who might've been telling the truth when he said he was a card counter and could win pretty consistently at poker (and would then be kicked out of the casino).

As someone who worked casino security (non-indian) for 11 years I can tell you that you would be talked to for JUST people watching. Hard to tell the difference between people watching and casing. Whether or not you would be asked to leave would largly depend on your answers and attitude when we talked to you.

Having worked in the business I can tell you that your odds of being treated fairly are far better in the non-indian casinos. Your odds are better in Nevada, or in California Cardroom Casinos than in Indian casinos. Yes there is legal-non-indian gaming in California.

Cardcounting is of no use in Poker. It is only of use in Blackjack. It is also legal as long as no device is used. In otherwords if you can do it all in your head. Use a device=go to jail. Do it in your head=get asked to leave. Where I worked we made sure it couldn't be done in your head.

Andy Taylor
08-02-2010, 7:15 AM
As you are playing against other players in poker and not the card room, they do not kick you out for winning. Basic statistics and math are very helpful......card counting in poker I've only heard of from people that have no idea what on earth they're talking about.

Poker rooms make their money from what is called rake.....or sometimes they actually rent the chairs by the hour. Rake is basically a percentage of each pot. So if a card room has 5% rakje and a pot is $100. The winner of the hand actually takes down $95 and the house gets $5. Rake is generally capped, so that the card room can make only a certain amount if the pot gets over a certain size.

I'm a winning poker player and have been for a long time. I wouldn't even look at a blackjack table or any of the other table games out there......throwing money away IMO.

Anyone want to invite me to their home game?

California Cardrooms do not take a rake. A rake is illegal. They take a drop. A drop is a set dollar amount (usually between $2-$5) that is taken before any bets are placed. It moves around the table and each player takes a turn at paying it. So if 9 people are playing you only pay it once every 9 hands.

Wherryj
08-02-2010, 9:38 AM
If it is true, it might have to do with the "sovereign nation" thing. It might not be considered legal for California residents to deal in firearms there. Or, it could be the fact that the niether the US gubmit nor any state gubmit wants native Americans anywhere near guns??????

This is probably the real reason, but I suspect that they'll use the former excuse.

Robert at Pechanga
08-03-2010, 2:09 PM
Pechanga Resort & Casino is very sorry to have to cancel the Elite Firearms Expo this weekend.

Under our agreement with the State of California, “Possession of firearms shall be prohibited at all times in the Gaming Facility” Sec. 10.6.

We apologize for the mistake in originally booking this event. Sales staff honestly did not know that state regulations don’t permit gun shows at the casino.

As much as we were looking forward to this event, it would be illegal for Pechanga to host any type of gun show at our facility due to this prohibition.

If you wish to learn more about our Tribal-State Compact with the State of California, it can be found here:
http://www.cgcc.ca.gov/documents/enabling/tsc.pdf

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience to everyone.

Robert Bledsoe
Public Relations Manager
Pechanga Resort & Casino

CSACANNONEER
08-03-2010, 2:14 PM
Robert,

Thanks for the facts!

BTW, if you have any interest in firearms, feel free to stick around this forum. It can be very educational!

drs2714
08-03-2010, 2:16 PM
:90:

razorx
08-03-2010, 2:30 PM
The way "gaming facility" is defined, there isn't really any clear room to manuever.

Robert, thanks for posting the reason and the supporting documentation.

Foulball
08-03-2010, 2:40 PM
Thanks for clearing it up Robert!

:thumbsup:

OCArmory
08-03-2010, 2:58 PM
The thing that really upsets me is that Bob and BJ put up a lot of money promoting this event that the casino will now benefit from. Think about it not everyone is on Calguns, or knows that the show is canceled. They will drive out to Pechanga for a show that is not there and probably stay and eat and play since they drove all that way.Pechanga should have know about there own agreements with the state.
Mike

Maltese Falcon
08-03-2010, 3:15 PM
Again, we apologize for the inconvenience to everyone.

Robert Bledsoe
Public Relations Manager
Pechanga Resort & Casino

Methinks a nice donation to the CalGuns Foundation (CGF) will do a WHOLE lot of good to restore the Pechanga Casino in the hearts and minds of the CalGuns community....

What do you think Mr. Bledsoe?

.

choprzrul
08-03-2010, 3:38 PM
Methinks a nice donation to the CalGuns Foundation (CGF) will do a WHOLE lot of good to restore the Pechanga Casino in the hearts and minds of the CalGuns community....

What do you think Mr. Bledsoe?

.

PR dept made their rounds & now I doubt he will be back for a while. Hence, a PM with the above thoughts might be in order.

.

Maltese Falcon
08-03-2010, 3:46 PM
PR dept made their rounds & now I doubt he will be back for a while. Hence, a PM with the above thoughts might be in order.

.

Good thinking!

PM sent. We shall see.

.

ke6guj
08-03-2010, 3:47 PM
The way "gaming facility" is defined, there isn't really any clear room to manuever.

Robert, thanks for posting the reason and the supporting documentation.

I wonder how that applies to firearms kept in a guest's hotel room, or carried by a licensed CCW permitee.

GuyW
08-03-2010, 4:17 PM
That needs to be changed. When we get shall-issue CCWs, a substantial number of people won't disarm to go to your casino.

If you don't care, tho - we don't either....
.

ke6guj
08-03-2010, 4:21 PM
heck, per the definition of "gaming facility", you wouldn't even be able to leave your handgun in your car if you wanted to disarm in order to go into the casino.

Maltese Falcon
08-03-2010, 4:23 PM
That needs to be changed. When we get shall-issue CCWs, a substantial number of people won't disarm to go to your casino.

If you don't care, tho - we don't either....
.

Do they allow CCWs in Vegas Casinos?

.

ke6guj
08-03-2010, 4:24 PM
Do they allow CCWs in Vegas Casinos?

.

yes, they do.

Maestro Pistolero
08-03-2010, 5:07 PM
Do they allow CCWs in Vegas Casinos?What CCWs? :whistling:
I know several casino ssecurity supervisors here in Vegas who all have the opinion that it is none of their business. And they prefer that you don't make it their business. So be discreet and STFU. There is no law against it.

bigcalidave
08-03-2010, 5:12 PM
Pechanga Resort & Casino is very sorry to have to cancel the Elite Firearms Expo this weekend.

Under our agreement with the State of California, “Possession of firearms shall be prohibited at all times in the Gaming Facility” Sec. 10.6.

We apologize for the mistake in originally booking this event. Sales staff honestly did not know that state regulations don’t permit gun shows at the casino.

As much as we were looking forward to this event, it would be illegal for Pechanga to host any type of gun show at our facility due to this prohibition.

If you wish to learn more about our Tribal-State Compact with the State of California, it can be found here:
http://www.cgcc.ca.gov/documents/enabling/tsc.pdf

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience to everyone.

Robert Bledsoe
Public Relations Manager
Pechanga Resort & Casino


It has been stated before that FNRA events have been held at Pechanga, with gun giveaways. This is some CYA BS, and you guys shouldn't be thanking him. For them to not check their own regulations and history, before issuing the agreement to hold the show, is reprehensible. Do NOT let them come in here with some slick apology and make everything better!

Robert, as I have posted in all of the threads where you attempted this weak apology, you can contact me directly if you want. You have a lot of work to do to make whole the people from elite and the calguns community.

ke6guj
08-03-2010, 6:41 PM
It has been stated before that FNRA events have been held at Pechanga, with gun giveaways. This is some CYA BS, and you guys shouldn't be thanking him. For them to not check their own regulations and history, before issuing the agreement to hold the show, is reprehensible. Do NOT let them come in here with some slick apology and make everything better!

Robert, as I have posted in all of the threads where you attempted this weak apology, you can contact me directly if you want. You have a lot of work to do to make whole the people from elite and the calguns community.that is interesting about the FNRA events.

I did notice that the upcoming Temecula FNRA event is listed as being in a new location, perhaps due to this.

bigcalidave
08-03-2010, 6:48 PM
Pechanga has provided two links to official tribal state compacs with CA. Neither of them have ANY mention of firearms. The link posted above by Robert Bledsoe can not be reached through any search or formal link related to the Pechanga tribe. This is a smokescreen, and an attempt to sway our popular opinion.

Links to all tribal compacts is:

http://gov.ca.gov/issue/gaming-compacts-list/

The Governor’s Press Release on the Pachanga & San Manuel Compact:

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/3703/


I'll let someone with better google fu double check, but I didn't see anything about guns, firearm, firearms in those documents!


Check out this


MAY 22 SOUTHWEST RIVERSIDE COUNTY FRIENDS OF NRA FUND-RAISER: The Southwest Riverside County Friends of the National Rifle Association will have its annual fund-raising dinner and auction beginning 6 p.m., Thursday, May 22 at the Pechanga Casino, Temecula. Cost is $75 per person. Contact Bill Burris at 909-260-9500 or e-mail Lissa Lee at llee@nrahq.org. For an event flyer go to http://www.friendsofnra.org/eventdocs/California/SWRivCoWeb08.pdf.Guns were CERTAINLY there for that one.



and


MAY 17 2007

SOUTHWEST RIVERSIDE COUNTY FRIENDS OF NRA: This fund-raiser will again be held Thursday, May 17, at the Pechanga Casino, 45000 Pechanga Pkwy, Temecula.

Tickets are $70 each if paid in advance, or $80 at the door. A limited number of drawing tickets are available for a Quigley sporting rifle or the NRA Marlin 336XLR .30-30. Again, Guns were certainly there...



Southwest riverside county has moved their 2010 FNRA event to



Keyways Winery
37338 De Portola Rd
Temecula, CA 92592




The document provided by Robert Bledsoe was signed by Grey Davis in 1999. There have obviously been events there since that date, without any problems. Should we contact the tribal gaming commission and make sure that they are fined appropriately for these violations?

Foulball
08-03-2010, 7:27 PM
Pechanga has provided two links to official tribal state compacs with CA. Neither of them have ANY mention of firearms. The link posted above by Robert Bledsoe can not be reached through any search or formal link related to the Pechanga tribe. This is a smokescreen, and an attempt to sway our popular opinion. Robert did link the appropriate compact. This is the boilerplate compact for all signatory tribes. Your links below confirm that they are indeed signatory to this compact.

Links to all tribal compacts is:

http://gov.ca.gov/issue/gaming-compacts-list/

The Governor’s Press Release on the Pachanga & San Manuel Compact:

http://gov.ca.gov/index.php?/press-release/3703/


I'll let someone with better google fu double check, but I didn't see anything about guns, firearm, firearms in those documents! Those were links to an amendment to the existing the compact. The firearms portion was not amended therefor, no mention of it.


The document provided by Robert Bledsoe was signed by Grey Davis in 1999. There have obviously been events there since that date, without any problems. Should we contact the tribal gaming commission and make sure that they are fined appropriately for these violations?If you want to.

Notations in bold.

But to get to the heart of the matter: I think they've realized that they have seriously screwed the pooch with regards to previous events and I'd bet that they'll be making a rather large donation to whomever they need to to make their previous events not result in fines or license revocation.
Just my .02c.
:D

clay32
08-03-2010, 7:49 PM
The thing that really upsets me is that Bob and BJ put up a lot of money promoting this event that the casino will now benefit from. Think about it not everyone is on Calguns, or knows that the show is canceled. They will drive out to Pechanga for a show that is not there and probably stay and eat and play since they drove all that way.Pechanga should have know about there own agreements with the state.
Mike

Agreed. This is about as unprofessional as it gets, and all the negativity directed toward Pechanga is warranted IMO, ignorance of the rules that govern your particular business is no excuse. I hope Bob and BJ are compensated by Pechanga.

kkritter
08-03-2010, 9:53 PM
Hey, I'll throw my ignorant 2 cents here....

1: Were they planning to have the show on the casino floor? If so, I could see a potential problem there but all these Indian casinos market themselves as "resorts" and most resorts have facilities that don't have gambling.

2: If that is the case then wouldn't the entire reservation then be a "gaming facility? I used to to events at Sycuan and would spend nights there in my motor home and some night it sounded like WWII.

3: Pala has a SHOOTING RANGE!!!

This sounds like a steaming diaper load.....

Look out.....incoming.....

KylaGWolf
08-03-2010, 9:53 PM
Those casinos are shady. I dont gamble and would never have gone to one, but a friend wanted to meet at one for lunch so I went.

I couldnt find her, so I sent a few text messages. Waited a while then gave up and got some lunch. While eating one of their "security" guys comes up and starts drilling me as to what I was doing there. He totally treated me like I was a criminal, simply because I was A) not gambling and B) texting on my phone. So Anyway I find out later that the girl I was supposed to meet had her phone confiscated and was escorted off the premises for doing exactly what I was doing. That's why i couldnt find her there. Never again will i go to an Indian casino for any reason!

Reason they questioned you like that is because that is one way people cheat. They go in teams to a casino and one doesn't play then texts the partner the information or they do that to rob the place. Can't blame them for being careful...I wouldn't say shady.

KylaGWolf
08-03-2010, 10:02 PM
I wonder how that applies to firearms kept in a guest's hotel room, or carried by a licensed CCW permitee.

Most likely both would cause problems.

KylaGWolf
08-03-2010, 10:04 PM
Do they allow CCWs in Vegas Casinos?

.

Not sure if they do or not I do know quite a few state no firearms allowed when it comes to open carry. I know in Pahrump they don't want you carrying openly in any of the casinos.

Kestryll
08-03-2010, 10:13 PM
It has been stated before that FNRA events have been held at Pechanga, with gun giveaways.

FNRA events are SUBSTANTIALLY different than gun shows.
For one the FNRA dinners are fund raisers for a 501(c)3 organization and for two while they do have gun 'giveaways' the sales are done off site and no transactions other than donations occur at the dinner itself.

Comparing a gun show to a fund raising dinner is apples to buicks.

Should we contact the tribal gaming commission and make sure that they are fined appropriately for these violations?
Not as a representative of Calguns in any way shape or form.

chuckles48
08-03-2010, 10:30 PM
I'll boycot you for boycotting a bussiness that is exercising it's LEGAL RIGHT to run it's bussiness any way it sees fit. Come on, you need to respect (not agree with) Pechenga's RIGHT to choose. You also have the right to choose not to do bussiness with them but, they are not violating anyone's rights.

Yep, they have a legal right to do that. And doing so is not a violation of anyone's rights.

However, that doesn't mean there's any particular reason to support them, either.

ke6guj
08-03-2010, 10:39 PM
FNRA events are SUBSTANTIALLY different than gun shows.
For one the FNRA dinners are fund raisers for a 501(c)3 organization and for two while they do have gun 'giveaways' the sales are done off site and no transactions other than donations occur at the dinner itself.

Comparing a gun show to a fund raising dinner is apples to buicks.
true, but most likely firearms were present, in violation of the compact. Most likely due to the size of an FNRA event, they flew under the radar, but with a large gunshow, it couldn't be overlooked.

GuyW
08-03-2010, 11:52 PM
There have obviously been events there since that date, without any problems. Should we contact the tribal gaming commission and make sure that they are fined appropriately for these violations?

Uh...NO!

.

bigcalidave
08-04-2010, 12:06 AM
FNRA events are SUBSTANTIALLY different than gun shows.
For one the FNRA dinners are fund raisers for a 501(c)3 organization and for two while they do have gun 'giveaways' the sales are done off site and no transactions other than donations occur at the dinner itself.

Comparing a gun show to a fund raising dinner is apples to buicks.

Not as a representative of Calguns in any way shape or form.

They specifically stated that guns cannot be one their premises as the latest reason for canceling this event. Guns were at the FNRA auctions and events.

The suggestion was simply that, a suggestion. Their representative stated that it would be ILLEGAL to have guns at the facility. They have broken the law in the past if this is true.

In an email from Robert Bledsoe himself, the latest victim of his blame is apparently the Catering department at Pechanga.


Why are we suffering the in-fighting again? A show, well tied to Calguns members, vendors and volunteers, has been shut down in a series of lies. The people responsible have come HERE in a veiled attempt to apologize, and have not answered the questions at hand. I have talked to the promoters, multiple times today and over the weekend. They never heard of Robert Bledsoe, and the communications attempts from Pachenga have been severley lacking.

ke6guj
08-04-2010, 12:13 AM
Hey, I'll throw my ignorant 2 cents here....

1: Were they planning to have the show on the casino floor? If so, I could see a potential problem there but all these Indian casinos market themselves as "resorts" and most resorts have facilities that don't have gambling.

2: If that is the case then wouldn't the entire reservation then be a "gaming facility? I used to to events at Sycuan and would spend nights there in my motor home and some night it sounded like WWII.
based on the definition of "gaming facility", it would appear that conference rooms and parking areas are included.
Sec. 2.8. "Gaming Facility" or "Facility" means any building in which Class III gaming
activities or gaming operations occur, or in which the business records, receipts, or other
funds of the gaming operation are maintained (but excluding offsite facilities primarily
dedicated to storage of those records, and financial institutions), and all rooms, buildings,
and areas, including parking lots and walkways, a principal purpose of which is to serve
the activities of the Gaming Operation, provided that nothing herein prevents the conduct
of Class II gaming (as defined under IGRA) therein.now, this compact is between the state and teh tribe. If Joe Public carried CCW into the casino or had a firearm stored in his car, AFAIK the casino would be in violation of the compact, not Joe Public.

It does look like it could be argued whether the principal purpose of the convention center is to serve the activities of the Gaming Operation.

Sec. 2.9. "Gaming Operation" means the business enterprise that offers and operates
Class III Gaming Activities, whether exclusively or otherwise.nevermind, Gaming Operation has a pretty broad definition, and if the convention center is part of the casino, pretty hard to claim that they are different business enterprises.


3: Pala has a SHOOTING RANGE!!!

This sounds like a steaming diaper load.....

Look out.....incoming.....

Pala's shooting range may be on a separate piece of property that is not considered part of the Gaming Facility, or run by the Gaming Operation.

OCArmory
08-04-2010, 8:28 AM
I love when people jump in and begin saying "Oh a nice donation to Calguns would go a long way." Not to belittle Calguns but screw that. Calguns didn't loose any money on this deal. The promoter of the event sure did (Elite Firearms.) As well as the vendors who booked hotel rooms, hired extra help and bought extra product for the show.
Mike

bwiese
08-04-2010, 9:34 AM
I love when people jump in and begin saying "Oh a nice donation to Calguns would go a long way." Not to belittle Calguns but screw that. Calguns didn't loose any money on this deal. The promoter of the event sure did (Elite Firearms.) As well as the vendors who booked hotel rooms, hired extra help and bought extra product for the show.
Mike

Very good point.

Note Calguns itself or CGF did not speak up on this, this was just user commentary.

Maltese Falcon
08-04-2010, 9:50 AM
I love when people jump in and begin saying "Oh a nice donation to Calguns would go a long way." Not to belittle Calguns but screw that. Calguns didn't loose any money on this deal. The promoter of the event sure did (Elite Firearms.) As well as the vendors who booked hotel rooms, hired extra help and bought extra product for the show.
Mike

Jeesus, I was just trying to help the CGN and CGF network get some lost mojo back. If our opinions or interest is worth nothing, I will take it for what it is.

You guys are free to sue them in civil court if you have actual monetary loss

Very good point.

Note Calguns itself or CGF did not speak up on this, this was just user commentary.

??????????

bplvr Calguns Gun Show Booth State Coordinator/C3 Leader

As the Gun Shows are a CGN event ,and their funding comes directly from CalGuns.net, a check made payable to CalGuns.net to make up for the $1,000.00 in lost antisipated monies from the Pechanga event would seem reasonable.
A lot of CalGunners re-arranged their schedules to make this booth happen and looked forward to a pleasant weekend at Pechanga.

Mr. Bledsoe ,you may p-m me for the postal address of CGN.



.

DTOM CA!
08-04-2010, 9:58 AM
I guess the Indians will have to give the promoter back the fire water and beaver skins for the down payment.:rofl::red_indian:

bwiese
08-04-2010, 10:01 AM
Jeesus, I was just trying to help the CGN and CGF network get some lost mojo back. If our opinions or interest is worth nothing, I will take it for what it is.

No, I was just trying to clarify to other readers (Pechanga, etc.) about where the requests were coming from.

I would say that perhaps Pechanga and the gunshow promoter and attendees need to sit down and talk about this: an offer was made and many folks expended time & costs to try to get something going.

Perhaps Pechanga could use its legal counsel to really determine the extent of "firearms in gaming areas" on a reservation and see if this really, really DOES preclude a gunshow in the parking lot.

motorhead
08-04-2010, 11:21 AM
JFC! what kind of retards does pechanga have for sales staff and tribal lawyers? "we didn't know?" how can an event as contoversial a a gunshow not have been vetted well in advance? someone's living in the friggin spirit world!

Dr.Lou
08-04-2010, 11:39 AM
As a former vice president and police chief for a California tribe who has a gaming compact with the State I wondered how they were getting away with having a gunshow at thier casino. The Pala management and attorneys know this stuff backwards and forwards; it's common language in all the Cal gaming compacts. I can't wait for the upcoming Big Reno Show. ;-)

bodger
08-04-2010, 11:40 AM
As you are playing against other players in poker and not the card room, they do not kick you out for winning. Basic statistics and math are very helpful......card counting in poker I've only heard of from people that have no idea what on earth they're talking about.

Poker rooms make their money from what is called rake.....or sometimes they actually rent the chairs by the hour. Rake is basically a percentage of each pot. So if a card room has 5% rakje and a pot is $100. The winner of the hand actually takes down $95 and the house gets $5. Rake is generally capped, so that the card room can make only a certain amount if the pot gets over a certain size.

I'm a winning poker player and have been for a long time. I wouldn't even look at a blackjack table or any of the other table games out there......throwing money away IMO.

Anyone want to invite me to their home game?

Maybe...I'm not a very good poker player though......:D

Andy Taylor
08-04-2010, 2:27 PM
What CCWs? :whistling:
I know several casino ssecurity supervisors here in Vegas who all have the opinion that it is none of their business. And they prefer that you don't make it their business. So be discreet and STFU. There is no law against it.

When I was head of security, that was my stance on it.

MB3
08-04-2010, 5:01 PM
Elite Firearms Unltd was the host of the gun show...After speaking with them personally it seems that Pechanga and the EFU did have a prior 3 1/2 month agreement/contract, unsure exactly the legal details of that aspect, but simply put, what I was told is that Pechanga canceled out at 1 week before the show due to a policy against handguns being inside the casino....I know I know, don't get ahead me... One would think a gun show, would consist of guns, including handguns especially, due to the fact that, statistically, handguns are the #1 choice for home defense....go figure??? Regardless of that circumstance, it seems Pechanga was also trying to continuously fabricate a reason to cancel the show throughout the entire 3 1/2 months prior to the initial cancellation, which was I believe last Friday. Thats not only bad business, its downright disrespectful towards not only the individuals directly involved in the setup of the show, but as well as all the many individuals who were in directly involved...vendors, customers, anyone who set aside time and money for this event, ect...3 + months provides a lot of preparation and planning time for an event to be canceled 1 week in advance... The only 2 things I hope for at this point as far as this situation goes is no financial damages incurred from anyone other than Pechanga, yeah right, and for another venue to become available so everything pretty much goes as planned, minus the bull$&^t delay....take care all

bigcalidave
08-05-2010, 1:40 AM
Very good point.

Note Calguns itself or CGF did not speak up on this, this was just user commentary.

How do you say this? I have personally been involved in the advertising and marketing of this event for months. Calguns Community Chapters, C3, has been planning, promoting and preparing for the show for months. We had a booth plan setup, volunteers ready to go, extra materials printed and distributed to be ready for this show. A lot of members were excited to go, and the cancellation of this show really affected us. This isn't "user commentary", and I have been discussing this situation with Elite since the moment they were advised the show was canceled! I may not have made these requests in this thread, but believe me, I have made the request directly in communication with Pechanga representation, and they conveniently skip over those parts of the message in their responses.

bwiese
08-05-2010, 1:50 AM
How do you say this? I have personally been involved in the advertising and marketing of this event for months. Calguns Community Chapters, C3, has been planning, promoting and preparing for the show for months. We had a booth plan setup, volunteers ready to go, extra materials printed and distributed to be ready for this show. A lot of members were excited to go, and the cancellation of this show really affected us. This isn't "user commentary", and I have been discussing this situation with Elite since the moment they were advised the show was canceled! I may not have made these requests in this thread, but believe me, I have made the request directly in communication with Pechanga representation, and they conveniently skip over those parts of the message in their responses.

Sorry if I was unclear - I wasn't talking about your actions, I was talking about commentary from various folks in prior posts saying "you screwed up, give CG[F] some money".

bigcalidave
08-05-2010, 2:08 AM
Ok, No problem. I just want people to know absolutely that this affected Calguns programs, volunteers and members, and the excuses provided by Pechanga at this time aren't helping ease over the situation.

bwiese
08-05-2010, 2:20 AM
Ok, No problem. I just want people to know absolutely that this affected Calguns programs, volunteers and members, and the excuses provided by Pechanga at this time aren't helping ease over the situation.

Understood.

thrillhouse700
08-05-2010, 9:03 AM
Make a massive calguns "retreat" and book all the rooms then cancel an hour before.

Munk
08-05-2010, 11:34 AM
Make a massive calguns "retreat" and book all the rooms then cancel an hour before.

Unfortunately, they likely have last minute cancellation fees, and this would be giving the casino free money.

I hope this gets resolved in a good way for all the vendors involved. I was kinda looking forward to this, a REAL gunshow in CA.

Maltese Falcon
08-05-2010, 12:56 PM
Sorry if I was unclear - I wasn't talking about your actions, I was talking about commentary from various folks in prior posts saying "you screwed up, give CG[F] some money".

I think it was more along the lines of "You screwed up and hordes of Calgunners will never set foot in your establishment again. Maybe a donation to CGF will assuage those boycotting Pechanga Casino."

My sister lives off of the Indian Truck Trail exit from the 15. My wife always wants to take a side visit to Pechanga after visiting the sis. Now, we won't. Ever.

.

Kestryll
08-05-2010, 1:46 PM
Why are we suffering the in-fighting again?

There's no infighting at all.

The simple fact is that Calguns.net as an entity will not condone or condemn Pechanga over this.
There is no benefit to doing so and there is damage that can be done to OUR name and reputation. It's not worth it, neither is it worth burning bridges for no gain.


In addition any effort to push for legal charges or fine will not be done in the name of or under the auspices of Calguns.net.
The LAST thing we want is a reputation for ratting people out.

stormy_clothing
08-05-2010, 2:37 PM
so let me get this straight and Indian casino - that operates somewhat extrajudicial and without standard taxable income canceled a gun show and people are surprised. These people dont give an F about you, your country what you want or any laws they arent required to follow.

The truth probably is some big wigs wife hates guns or some group threatened to demonstrate or some other garbage. All about money and image. I wouldn't bother one bit fighting it I'd simply pay some kid to hand out flyers for the new show at there driveway entrance.

stitchnicklas
08-05-2010, 2:40 PM
well costa mesa gunshow is in a couple of weeks ,hopefully the vendors can sell their overstock there without a loss. what perchanga did is so uncool that i won't make a comment about them.

save your show money for costa mesa and have fun there...

Erg
08-07-2010, 7:43 PM
This is incredulously fishy.

Something's terribly wrong with this, especially when the show was being held in Penchanga's Conference Center Rooms. With a completely separate entrance. Furthermore, bad form to blame a department within the organization that they don't know the casino's operating rules and regulation they're held under.

They're full of S%^#!!!!

Boycott all the way! And I've got a lot of friends and family that will follow in my footsteps.

n6nvr
08-08-2010, 12:21 AM
Need more details before I form an opinion...

This is a gun board, you are not supposed to get any facts before forming an opinion.

n6nvr
08-08-2010, 12:25 AM
JFC! what kind of retards does pechanga have for sales staff and tribal lawyers? "we didn't know?" how can an event as contoversial a a gunshow not have been vetted well in advance? someone's living in the friggin spirit world!

The same retards that advertise that Pechanga is just a few minutes away by freeway from LA??? Guess they never saw the e/b 91 on a Friday afternoon.

SoCal Gunner
08-08-2010, 5:59 AM
so let me get this straight and Indian casino - that operates somewhat extrajudicial and without standard taxable income canceled a gun show and people are surprised. These people dont give an F about you, your country what you want or any laws they arent required to follow.

The truth probably is some big wigs wife hates guns or some group threatened to demonstrate or some other garbage. All about money and image. I wouldn't bother one bit fighting it I'd simply pay some kid to hand out flyers for the new show at there driveway entrance.

Best post so far