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View Full Version : Can I sell a rifle to a minor?


rromeo
07-30-2010, 1:24 PM
Well, not exactly. I responded to an ad for a S&W .357 for trade, he listed an AR as one of his choices. A few email back an forth, we have a deal worked out, then he says he's 16, so his mom will handle the bill of sale. I presume I should now only be dealing with the mother, but I'm also thinking I should Just bail on this deal. I know most of us had our parents buy us guns as teens, but this seems weird.
What do the legal experts think?

dustoff31
07-30-2010, 1:31 PM
Not a legal expert, but as the guns involved will have to be transferred through an FFL, they will ensure that everything is handled properly. If the transaction happens, you are off the hook. If the deal bothers the FFL, he'll tell you that.

CSACANNONEER
07-30-2010, 1:32 PM
The guns do not involve going through an FFL. You need to realize where the OP is and that the laws there are not the same.


My advise is: If you don't have a warm fuzzy feeling, go with your gut instinct! Who knows if he is just going to be renting a mom for the trade or what? Then again, maybe the rented mom would be willing to work for you as well.

rromeo
07-30-2010, 1:42 PM
Pardon me. I new to out of California , so I forget to mention that sometimes.

CSACANNONEER
07-30-2010, 1:45 PM
Pardon me. I new to out of California , so I forget to mention that sometimes.

Your location is clearly posted.

wash
07-30-2010, 2:01 PM
Do you know the S&W isn't stolen?

That would be my worry.

mosinnagantm9130
07-30-2010, 2:01 PM
You have to be 18 to buy a rifle, so no, I don't think you could sell to him. However, I think you could sell to the mother.

I could be totally wrong on this, so don't take my next advice as if it were coming from a lawyer, because it's not. Again, I could be totally wrong on this:

You must be 18 to buy a rifle. However, I don't think there is an age limit on owning rifles, so couldn't the mom just give it to him?

WTSGDYBBR
07-30-2010, 2:09 PM
I would not do it . 1 = A Sting 2= Scam

rromeo
07-30-2010, 2:15 PM
This could be considered a straw sale, correct?

joedogboy
07-30-2010, 2:21 PM
Parents are allowed to buy things for their children.

Deal with the parent, not the child.

Consider running the transaction through a FFL even if you don't have to, just to make sure everything is legal.

CSACANNONEER
07-30-2010, 4:30 PM
This could be considered a straw sale, correct?

If a parent is making a trade or purchase in order to give a gun to their child (or anyone else!) it would not be a straw purchase. But, if someone gives someone else money to buy him/her a firearm it would be a straw purchase.

pullnshoot25
07-30-2010, 4:38 PM
If a parent is making a trade or purchase in order to give a gun to their child (or anyone else!) it would not be a straw purchase. But, if someone gives someone else money to buy him/her a firearm it would be a straw purchase.

This.

Its all fine, just work it out with the mom.

CSACANNONEER
07-30-2010, 4:40 PM
This.

Its all fine, just work it out with the mom.

Who knows if he is just going to be renting a mom for the trade or what? Then again, maybe the rented mom would be willing to work for you as well.

:D:43:

rromeo
07-30-2010, 5:57 PM
My wife would have an issue with that.

bruss01
07-30-2010, 9:53 PM
Impossible to know if it is just good people trying to find a way to do what they want within the law, a crook trying to subvert/circumvent the law, or a sting operation trying to get you in a compromising position.

Myself, I would have the heebie-jeebies and walk away. There are too many other gun deals out there for me to take a gamble on what someone's intentions may be, even if in the long run it turns out they were honorable. I just don't want to take a risk and put myself in a vulnerable position.

pitchbaby
07-30-2010, 10:41 PM
If the gun is worth it... go through the FFL or... if you own your rifle legally, call the local PD and ask them. I do have my hesitations at bringing law enforcement into my life when not necessary, but in this case, you might just get a pat on the back for helping them catch a crook if this indeed is a scam.

Wait... your in Richmond... forget about it... a town riddled with gangs and cops who hate guns.

Uriah02
07-30-2010, 10:43 PM
This could be considered a straw sale, correct?

That is what I was thinking. I would find that more likely the case if the mother is not his real mother...

CSACANNONEER
07-31-2010, 6:50 AM
Wait... your in Richmond... forget about it... a town riddled with gangs and cops who hate guns.

The OP is in Richmond VA!

pitchbaby
07-31-2010, 7:22 AM
The OP is in Richmond VA!

Ahh, I wondered that... since he said "NOT" right next to Cali... then the thing I said before if they LEO's there have a good gun attitude. I know I could trust the guys at my PD... but that might be a rare thing.

tenpercentfirearms
07-31-2010, 7:37 AM
If it seems weird, then you might want to go with the "its seems too good to be true" mantra.

If you want to proceed, then simply let the kid know your hesitation and ask for some proof that this is legit.

#1: You want to see some family photos. If the kid doesn't have photos from about the age of zero up through 16 with this woman, then she is a renter.
#2: You want to see both of their IDs
#3: Get it well documented with a bill of sale.
#4: Consider going through an FFL even if not required.

As someone else said, any hesitation means it isn't above board.

Turbinator
07-31-2010, 8:38 AM
So a parent can buy a firearm for a child;

Can a child buy a firearm for a parent? Seems like not.

Apologies for the sidetrack.

Turby

CSACANNONEER
07-31-2010, 8:48 AM
So a parent can buy a firearm for a child;

Can a child buy a firearm for a parent? Seems like not.

Apologies for the sidetrack.

Turby

Sure you can. If it wasn't common to do so, both DOJ ands ATF&E would not have questions about this in their FAQs portion of their websites.

Woops, I now realize that you are talking about under age children buying firearms for their parents.

Turbinator
07-31-2010, 11:49 AM
Sure you can. If it wasn't common to do so, both DOJ ands ATF&E would not have questions about this in their FAQs portion of their websites.

Woops, I now realize that you are talking about under age children buying firearms for their parents.

Well, actually, I think you got it right the first time. I was thinking about an adult child buying a parent a firearm, such as a handgun. I'm on the BATFE site right now looking for answers to this and my search brought me to this site:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/

And so I'm looking around at the FAQ's and can't really find anything that covers this scenario. Did you have a particular link in mind?

Turby

tenpercentfirearms
07-31-2010, 12:10 PM
Well, actually, I think you got it right the first time. I was thinking about an adult child buying a parent a firearm, such as a handgun. I'm on the BATFE site right now looking for answers to this and my search brought me to this site:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/

And so I'm looking around at the FAQ's and can't really find anything that covers this scenario. Did you have a particular link in mind?

Turby

Yes, it goes both ways.

I can buy guns and have bought long guns in my name. Once I took possession of them, I handed them to my father. If we weren't in CA, I would just hand handguns to my father as well. However, he has to send in the intrafamilial transfer form too.

My father, my mother, and I swap guns all the time depending on who is most likely to be running a DROS the soonest.

CSACANNONEER
07-31-2010, 12:21 PM
Well, actually, I think you got it right the first time. I was thinking about an adult child buying a parent a firearm, such as a handgun. I'm on the BATFE site right now looking for answers to this and my search brought me to this site:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/

And so I'm looking around at the FAQ's and can't really find anything that covers this scenario. Did you have a particular link in mind?

Turby

Thinking about it, DOJ has something on their site but, I've never seen anything about this federally EXCEPT for the fact that there is this:

1. For purposes of this form, you are the actual buyer if you are purchasing the
firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (for example,
redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment). You are also the
actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm as a legitimate gift for a third party.
ACTUAL BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for
Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT
the actual buyer of the firearm and must answer “no “ to question 12a. The
licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to
buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is
the actual buyer of the firearm and should answer “yes” to question 12a.

Found on every 4473.

So, as far as Feds are concerned, anyone can give a gun to anyone else (who is not a prohibited person). In Cal. all gifts have to go through FFLs unless specifically exempted (like intrafamilar transfers and C&R long guns).

Turbinator
07-31-2010, 12:30 PM
Thinking about it, DOJ has something on their site but, I've never seen anything about this federally EXCEPT for the fact that there is this:


Found on every 4473.

So, as far as Feds are concerned, anyone can give a gun to anyone else (who is not a prohibited person). In Cal. all gifts have to go through FFLs unless specifically exempted (like intrafamilar transfers and C&R long guns).

Thanks. I think I got misinformed years ago by an FFL. I was buying a handgun for my dad for his birthday. The FFL told me it was a straw transfer and that my dad had to do the 4473 and the waiting period. In retrospect, I don't think he was right. I could have purchased the handgun, then given it to my dad and used the intrafamilial transfer form and we would have been legal - as he is not a prohibited person (or wasn't at the time, either).

Turby

CSACANNONEER
07-31-2010, 12:32 PM
Thanks. I think I got misinformed years ago by an FFL. I was buying a handgun for my dad for his birthday. The FFL told me it was a straw transfer and that my dad had to do the 4473 and the waiting period. In retrospect, I don't think he was right. I could have purchased the handgun, then given it to my dad and used the intrafamilial transfer form and we would have been legal - as he is not a prohibited person (or wasn't at the time, either).

Turby

Many FFLs are too stupid to understand the law even though it is clearly printed right on the 4473s. Go figure?????