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hakcenter
07-29-2010, 9:36 PM
The better judgement got me tonight as a racoon was scurring through the backyard.

I had my 22 at the ready but it didn't attack the cats.. I scared it off without having to fire at it obviously..

What is the legality against 'animal(s)' and/or attacks on my own private property ? I know there's laws against discharging, but under what circumstance if it is an animal :confused:

taperxz
07-29-2010, 10:05 PM
If it is illegal to discharge you may not discharge unless your life or the the life of others are at stake. I don't think it would even be legal to shoot it with a bow. You may trap it and call animal control but they probably won't come out. Your best bet would be to raccoon proof your yard. Don't leave cat and dog food out. That IS what they are after.

taperxz
07-29-2010, 10:09 PM
One other thing that comes to mind is that even if you could shoot like i can at my ranch you would still be required to have a CA hunting license to take that animal.

stitchnicklas
07-29-2010, 10:09 PM
i know in the city of riverside it is legal to discharge against a animal to protect your family and pets but you better hit what you aim for,i keep a 45acp mag of cci shotshell for critters..

taperxz
07-29-2010, 10:18 PM
i know in the city of riverside it is legal to discharge against a animal to protect your family and pets but you better hit what you aim for,i keep a 45acp mag of cci shotshell for critters..

I would be very careful doing that. Even if the municipality allows for that, an LEO gets a call of shots fired, responds, goes to your door, you smile and say hi!, i just shot a racoon in my back yard. It was going to bite me or my dog or cat. You have now let the LEO into your house to inspect this raccoon and the dog is jumping all over him and happy as can be. LEO sees no evidence that the racoon was attacking you animal. HMMMM LEO then sees dog food and/or cat food outside. HMMMMM Think before you shoot.JMO

mswanson223
07-29-2010, 10:24 PM
How about hi-powered pellet gun next time.

Rossi357
07-29-2010, 10:28 PM
No need to shoot them. They won't hurt anything. The worst that will happen is they get in your garbage cans. They are looking for food. If they don't find any, they will just move on. We have a mama and babies go through our yard about every 3 or 4 days.
If they find food they will be regular visitors.

Baxter
07-29-2010, 10:28 PM
Call a pro and have it trapped and removed.

taperxz
07-29-2010, 10:30 PM
How about hi-powered pellet gun next time.

It would depend on the county or municipal laws. Don't forget the hunting license either. If someone did call LE and they did show up at your door they could call f and g to come investigate and cite you for that. Its kinda far fetched but hey they way this state is you never know.

WDE91
07-29-2010, 10:32 PM
certain .22lr loads, pellet gun, trap and trash can filled with water
good solutions to problem at hand

taperxz
07-29-2010, 10:34 PM
Call a pro and have it trapped and removed.

I agree but where there is one there is more and that could cost you alot of money constantly trapping racoons. Besides you can release one of the 10 miles away and it WILL come back home.;)

dieselpower
07-29-2010, 11:55 PM
No need to shoot them. They won't hurt anything. The worst that will happen is they get in your garbage cans. They are looking for food. If they don't find any, they will just move on. We have a mama and babies go through our yard about every 3 or 4 days.
If they find food they will be regular visitors.

Well, No. I grew up in coon country. They are not peaceful animals as disney wants us to believe. Coons will kill cats, kittens, small dogs, puppies. They have attacked small children where I grew up. They are very dangerous when they are in a pack. They can carry rabies.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/282218_racoons23.html

gnatnoop
07-29-2010, 11:55 PM
i believe it is legal in California (at least where i live) to shoot a animal if it is endangering your pets or livestock.. Animal control told me this when my neighbors dog got in my backyard (the neighbors a complete idiot and we have had this problem before), and killed some of my chickens..

Helpful_Cub
07-30-2010, 12:26 AM
i believe it is legal in California (at least where i live) to shoot a animal if it is endangering your pets or livestock.. Animal control told me this when my neighbors dog got in my backyard (the neighbors a complete idiot and we have had this problem before), and killed some of my chickens..

It really depends on your county code. For LA, we get mixed messages but it comes down to, its ok so long as you "protect life or property, or to destroy or kill any predatory or dangerous animal". However, the got'cha line is that you must be half-mile away from streets, houses, etc.

13.66.010 Use of weapons permitted when.

This chapter, except as otherwise provided in this Part 1, does not prohibit the discharge of any rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm of any kind, or the shooting of any arrow or other missile, when necessary so to do to protect life or property, or to destroy or kill any predatory or dangerous animal. (Ord. 7730 1, 1960: Ord. 7381 1 (part), 1958: Ord. 1769 Art. 3 302, 1929.)

13.66.040 Discharging firearms--Restrictions generally.

A person shall not shoot, fire or discharge, and a person, firm or corporation shall not cause or permit to be shot, fired or discharged, any rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm in the general direction of any house, camp or place of human habitation, or in the general direction of any public highway, road, street, way, park or premises, unless the place from which such rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm is shot, fired or discharged is at least one-half mile distant from such house, camp or place of human habitation, or is at least one-half mile distant from that portion of such public highway, road, street, way, park or premises toward which such rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm is shot, fired or discharged. The exception in Section 13.66.010 to destroying or killing any predatory or dangerous animal does not apply to this section. (Ord. 7381 1 (part), 1958: Ord. 1769 Art. 3 304, 1929.)

rromeo
07-30-2010, 10:24 AM
My county has very little in the way of firearm laws, and the state allows me to hunt on my own property without a license.

SgtDinosaur
07-30-2010, 10:27 AM
I used to use a humane trap and dump them off across town back when I had coon problems.

Chatterbox
07-30-2010, 10:39 AM
It really depends on your county code. For LA, we get mixed messages but it comes down to, its ok so long as you "protect life or property, or to destroy or kill any predatory or dangerous animal". However, the got'cha line is that you must be half-mile away from streets, houses, etc.

13.66.010 Use of weapons permitted when.

This chapter, except as otherwise provided in this Part 1, does not prohibit the discharge of any rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm of any kind, or the shooting of any arrow or other missile, when necessary so to do to protect life or property, or to destroy or kill any predatory or dangerous animal. (Ord. 7730 1, 1960: Ord. 7381 1 (part), 1958: Ord. 1769 Art. 3 302, 1929.)

13.66.040 Discharging firearms--Restrictions generally.

A person shall not shoot, fire or discharge, and a person, firm or corporation shall not cause or permit to be shot, fired or discharged, any rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm in the general direction of any house, camp or place of human habitation, or in the general direction of any public highway, road, street, way, park or premises, unless the place from which such rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm is shot, fired or discharged is at least one-half mile distant from such house, camp or place of human habitation, or is at least one-half mile distant from that portion of such public highway, road, street, way, park or premises toward which such rifle, shotgun, pistol, revolver or firearm is shot, fired or discharged. The exception in Section 13.66.010 to destroying or killing any predatory or dangerous animal does not apply to this section. (Ord. 7381 1 (part), 1958: Ord. 1769 Art. 3 304, 1929.)

So if you're being attacked by a dog in your backyard, for example, it's illegal for you to shoot it?

stitchnicklas
07-30-2010, 11:00 AM
I would be very careful doing that. Even if the municipality allows for that, an LEO gets a call of shots fired, responds, goes to your door, you smile and say hi!, i just shot a racoon in my back yard. It was going to bite me or my dog or cat. You have now let the LEO into your house to inspect this raccoon and the dog is jumping all over him and happy as can be. LEO sees no evidence that the racoon was attacking you animal. HMMMM LEO then sees dog food and/or cat food outside. HMMMMM Think before you shoot.JMO

we had some pitbull problems in my street last year and we had 10 cops respond and take statements from all that witnessed a2 pit on 1 cat attack,i talked to a sgt about defense ,i told him i had rubber buck for the next time the dogs got lose and he told me no ,use your 45acp it will cause a shots fired call but if you call a defensive shooting that will lower the edge a little,and it is legal it city limits here in the city of riverside, municipal code also allows hit....just have to choose proper time and use of force..

TrooperMKIII
07-30-2010, 11:01 AM
+1 on the pellet gun. Use it all the time for feathered rat (pigeon) control.

Wherryj
07-30-2010, 11:44 AM
If it is illegal to discharge you may not discharge unless your life or the the life of others are at stake. I don't think it would even be legal to shoot it with a bow. You may trap it and call animal control but they probably won't come out. Your best bet would be to raccoon proof your yard. Don't leave cat and dog food out. That IS what they are after.

I remember a story about a guy who shot an owl with a bow (not even sure if he hit it?).

He was prosecuted in court and the media with a zeal that isn't used against murderers.

gnatnoop
07-30-2010, 12:03 PM
I used to use a humane trap and dump them off across town back when I had coon problems.

i did this for awhile when we had coons tearing up our lawn.. i would trap them and let them go about 40 miles away or so (that is now illegal around here btw) and it didnt seem to help at all, so i started marking them with blue spray paint.. and i will be damned if every single one made it 40 miles back... thats when i started drowning them..

SgtDinosaur
07-30-2010, 12:32 PM
i did this for awhile when we had coons tearing up our lawn.. i would trap them and let them go about 40 miles away or so (that is now illegal around here btw) and it didnt seem to help at all, so i started marking them with blue spray paint.. and i will be damned if every single one made it 40 miles back... thats when i started drowning them..

I always wondered about that ...thought that might be the case. Good idea marking them. Tricky little rascals. Smelly, too.

hakcenter
07-30-2010, 1:26 PM
Well thanks for a lot of the replies guys. Ya I live here in riverside, and we haven't EVER had an issue with any varmants on the street.

But this racoon must have been an easy 20lbs.. it was like.. gigantic. I'll explain the whole story.. I was pretty tired when I wrote the OP.

I'm just minding my own business in the office its a bit late bout 9pm, and from what my wife told me she heard the cats going at it in the back yard (we own 2, there is like 8 or 9 cats total with owners on the street so its not completely uncommon for scuffs). Then maybe a couple minutes later she investigates, and the giant *** racoon is at our back door.. looks like its attempting to get in through the cat door we have.

By the time my wife even alerts me to suspicious activity in the backyard.. I grabbed the 22, not knowing if it was a possum.. we do have a 20gauge with #7.5 in it.. the cats still preferred to stay outside.. apparently they actually scared it off from what I could tell.

I don't want a racoon taking out my cats, or any of my neighbors cats. We've lost.. LOL.. some small dogs to owls here.. which I always thought was a bit weird.. just to see a little dog playing in the yard, ans swooooooop comes in the owl LOL.

But ya I'm a bit concerned just for our cats, if they were inside I wouldn't have bothered with the gun, but I really don't want to loose our animals to something that can be prevented. The 22 is not that loud and I don't think any of the neighbors would have cared.

It's good to see some of you citing the muni code, maybe I'll go through it again for riverside. I know they have a lot of issues about neglagent discharges, regardless if your on your private property.

E Pluribus Unum
07-30-2010, 1:34 PM
I would be very careful doing that. Even if the municipality allows for that, an LEO gets a call of shots fired, responds, goes to your door, you smile and say hi!, i just shot a racoon in my back yard. It was going to bite me or my dog or cat. You have now let the LEO into your house to inspect this raccoon and the dog is jumping all over him and happy as can be. LEO sees no evidence that the racoon was attacking you animal. HMMMM LEO then sees dog food and/or cat food outside. HMMMMM Think before you shoot.JMO

If you have discharged your firearm in the privacy of your back yard with no witnesses, don't speak to the police when they get to the door other than to say something like, "Yeah, I heard the shot, it was REALLY loud, but I didn't see anything."

stitchnicklas
07-30-2010, 1:34 PM
http://www.riversideca.gov/municode/pdf/08/8-04.pdf city animal code

http://www.riversideca.gov/municode/pdf/09/9-12.pdf city firearm codes

Section 9.12.030 is a exception to discharges

hakcenter
07-30-2010, 2:01 PM
Exceptions.
Section 9.12.030
Section 9.12.020 does not apply to the use of a firearm by:
[...]
B. Persons using firearms in the defense of their persons, the life of another person,
their livestock, their domestic animals or their property, to the extent authorized by law; or as
otherwise authorized by a permit or license, other than a hunting license, issued pursuant to a
state or federal law; or
[...]

atleast i know now for sure, :43:

pullnshoot25
07-30-2010, 2:22 PM
Depending on where you are at, you could call me and I could come take care of it with my bow.

Seriously.

mzimmers
07-30-2010, 2:46 PM
Not quite what you're asking about, but since others have mentioned it...no way would I use a pellet gun on a 20 lb. raccoon. Not even a .22 unless I was damn sure I could successfully take a head shot. Coons are tough, and get really nasty when injured.

norcal01
07-30-2010, 2:46 PM
If you have discharged your firearm in the privacy of your back yard with no witnesses, don't speak to the police when they get to the door other than to say something like, "Yeah, I heard the shot, it was REALLY loud, but I didn't see anything."

This should work fine. Most shots fired calls usually turn out to be fireworks since the average person can't tell the difference. We never went knocking on doors, usually just drove around in the area for a while so you probably wouldn't have anyone come to your door unless they saw you shooting. We had a problem with them too and my wife sprayed one with pepper spray after it started hissing at her in our carport. It went under the house and made some horrible sounds for a couple hours and then we never saw it again so that might be an option too.

schnellfeuer300
07-30-2010, 5:24 PM
i believe it is legal in California (at least where i live) to shoot a animal if it is endangering your pets or livestock.. Animal control told me this when my neighbors dog got in my backyard (the neighbors a complete idiot and we have had this problem before), and killed some of my chickens..

Man, that sounds like a country song.

Oh wait - it is! :D

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ef3cLW7XLvs&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ef3cLW7XLvs&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Big Jake
07-30-2010, 5:29 PM
Get an air rifle as that is not a firearm and you will probably be okay!

Rob454
07-30-2010, 5:31 PM
I remember a story about a guy who shot an owl with a bow (not even sure if he hit it?).

He was prosecuted in court and the media with a zeal that isn't used against murderers.

Thats because Owls are protected species

mzimmers
07-30-2010, 5:34 PM
Get an air rifle as that is not a firearm and you will probably be okay!

Whoa there, pardner.

Air guns may not be classified as firearms by the NFA, but *many* counties and municipalities expressly consider them the same.

Rob454
07-30-2010, 5:35 PM
Have raccoons in my area. never had a problem. i just dont leave food out and they dont bother. make SURE you are not the one that is enabling these animals to come into your yard. it would be really sad to shoot a animal that is simply looking to take food that you are leaving out. IMO you would be more at fault because its a easily fixable problem by simply removing the food. I had a buddy who was always mad cause coyotes killed his cat and eventually his little dog. yet he woudl leave this little dog out at night. And he lived in palmdale. Duh.

And my city does not allow ANY firearm or BB/Pellet rifle to be fired within city limits.

GuyW
07-30-2010, 6:26 PM
Get an air rifle as that is not a firearm and you will probably be okay!

Most ordinances against shooting include air guns, pellet guns, and BB guns with firearms....

.

otteray
07-30-2010, 7:07 PM
Go subsonic with a couple grains of Bullseye or similar powder and an appropriately sized round lead ball.
Very quiet (Cat Sneeze or Rabbit Fart) in a long barrel rifle, from small caliber to 45-70!

hakcenter
07-30-2010, 10:18 PM
Depending on where you are at, you could call me and I could come take care of it with my bow.

Seriously.

LMAO I prefer to kill my own varmits if permitted to do so. I've taken out a few possums when they've cornered my cats under our old house.

While I appreciate the advice on racoons, in light of the question I think we already know I'm in an exception 9.12.030, by protecting my domestic animals aka pets. Just the reason for asking (when I've taken out some possums) is that my neighbors are just complete jerks at the new residence. So I'd cover my bases this time.

If it does come around tonight, I'll be sure to use the shotgun since 20lbs and a 22 may not succede on first attempt.

Texas Boy
07-31-2010, 3:00 AM
Regarding air guns.....

I have some fairly powerfully air rifles - a .177 cal and a .22 cal, both shoot over 1,000fps and are very quiet. I used the .177 once to eliminate a problem skunk (single head shot put him down), and the .22 to euthanize a possum that my dog had broken it's neck (sadly it took a few head shots to put the possum down).

Bottom line - a high powered air rifle is going to require a precise head shot on an animal of any size. Yep, it can be done (I've seen people hunt pigs with air rifles), but may not be practical. The air rifle is quiet, but as others have mentioned, may not be legal to discharge in most municipalities.

Pepper spray sounds like an interesting option - I've heard of people successfully using it on bears.

pullnshoot25
07-31-2010, 4:50 AM
If you want to get crazy, a .32ACP out of an M91/30 would be pretty cool...

YubaRiver
07-31-2010, 6:57 AM
Just don't shoot a bear that breaks into your house at Tahoe. Even if the bear
does so when your young child is in the house.

Last guy that did it got run out of town. Death threats to his family. Had his
name in the paper for weeks. Charges brought up, then dropped by the game
dept. Neighbors calling him names.

Charismatic megafauna.

dawgcasa
07-31-2010, 7:12 AM
How about this for a non-lethal, legal way to discourage varmints (with removing food sources at night)?

http://www.pepperammo.com/paintball-pepperammo.php

gnatnoop
07-31-2010, 1:37 PM
Just don't shoot a bear that breaks into your house at Tahoe. Even if the bear
does so when your young child is in the house.

Last guy that did it got run out of town. Death threats to his family. Had his
name in the paper for weeks. Charges brought up, then dropped by the game
dept. Neighbors calling him names.

Charismatic megafauna.

so, what do they say about all the hunters that go up there and kill bears..

cr250chevy
07-31-2010, 8:56 PM
How about hi-powered pellet gun next time.

be careful about this as some city's have local ordinances placing pellet guns into the same LEGAL CATEGORY as real firearms and therefore all firearm laws apply to pellet guns as well.... really tho, who can keep tract of these crazy laws... too too many, I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to mow my law with a gas powered mower any more...

ShootinMedic
07-31-2010, 10:47 PM
be careful about this as some city's have local ordinances placing pellet guns into the same LEGAL CATEGORY as real firearms and therefore all firearm laws apply to pellet guns as well.... really tho, who can keep tract of these crazy laws... too too many, I'm not even sure if I'm allowed to mow my law with a gas powered mower any more...

You are obviously an evil environment destroying gas lawnmower user and should be thrown in jail for the rest of your life!!!!

AnyHoo... Airsoft seems to scare them off too. I opened up on two in my back yard when I was living near Sac State and never saw them again. I bought mine before I discovered I could buy the real thing... It shoots about 400 fps and will empty the 300rd mag in about 45 seconds :)

Meplat
07-31-2010, 11:09 PM
One other thing that comes to mind is that even if you could shoot like i can at my ranch you would still be required to have a CA hunting or trappng license to take that animal.

Fixed it.

Meplat
07-31-2010, 11:17 PM
I don't think it's legal to take them with a pellet gun according to the F&G code. Coons are tough critters anyway and unless you are both good and lucky it would run off and die a slow death. Not ethical where I come from. It would depend on the county or municipal laws. Don't forget the hunting license either. If someone did call LE and they did show up at your door they could call f and g to come investigate and cite you for that. Its kinda far fetched but hey they way this state is you never know.

Meplat
07-31-2010, 11:40 PM
20lb is NOT a large coon.Well thanks for a lot of the replies guys. Ya I live here in riverside, and we haven't EVER had an issue with any varmants on the street.

But this racoon must have been an easy 20lbs.. it was like.. gigantic. I'll explain the whole story.. I was pretty tired when I wrote the OP.

I'm just minding my own business in the office its a bit late bout 9pm, and from what my wife told me she heard the cats going at it in the back yard (we own 2, there is like 8 or 9 cats total with owners on the street so its not completely uncommon for scuffs). Then maybe a couple minutes later she investigates, and the giant *** racoon is at our back door.. looks like its attempting to get in through the cat door we have.

By the time my wife even alerts me to suspicious activity in the backyard.. I grabbed the 22, not knowing if it was a possum.. we do have a 20gauge with #7.5 in it.. the cats still preferred to stay outside.. apparently they actually scared it off from what I could tell.

I don't want a racoon taking out my cats, or any of my neighbors cats. We've lost.. LOL.. some small dogs to owls here.. which I always thought was a bit weird.. just to see a little dog playing in the yard, ans swooooooop comes in the owl LOL.

But ya I'm a bit concerned just for our cats, if they were inside I wouldn't have bothered with the gun, but I really don't want to loose our animals to something that can be prevented. The 22 is not that loud and I don't think any of the neighbors would have cared.

It's good to see some of you citing the muni code, maybe I'll go through it again for riverside. I know they have a lot of issues about neglagent discharges, regardless if your on your private property.

Meplat
08-01-2010, 12:13 AM
Not enough gun for coon! Very unethical!

Go subsonic with a couple grains of Bullseye or similar powder and an appropriately sized round lead ball.
Very quiet (Cat Sneeze or Rabbit Fart) in a long barrel rifle, from small caliber to 45-70!

advocatusdiaboli
08-01-2010, 10:56 AM
I remember a story about a guy who shot an owl with a bow (not even sure if he hit it?).

He was prosecuted in court and the media with a zeal that isn't used against murderers.

Owls are: 1) protected and 2) hard to plead they endangered your pet rats or other pet rodents.

MasterYong
08-01-2010, 12:09 PM
i know in the city of riverside it is legal to discharge against a animal to protect your family and pets but you better hit what you aim for,i keep a 45acp mag of cci shotshell for critters..

I was under the impression that, per ca law, if you put shotshells in a pistol you were manufacturing (or in possession of, can't remember) an sbs.

Anyone want to clarify? I've never bothered with shotshells myself for that reason...

Marxman
08-01-2010, 12:33 PM
Crack a shovel over its head. We had a couple raccoons gang up on our 15 year old dog who's not too spry anymore, two 'THUNK's later and there was no more problem. I never discharged a firearm, my pets life was in danger, and the problem was neutralized. I'd like to add that it wasn't cruel and unusual either, they were dead after the first hit. Neighbors never had a clue.

Marxman
08-01-2010, 12:35 PM
I was under the impression that, per ca law, if you put shotshells in a pistol you were manufacturing (or in possession of, can't remember) an sbs.

Anyone want to clarify? I've never bothered with shotshells myself for that reason...

Don't have the links but I think using shotshell loads in a certain caliber such as 45ACP is not illegal. The round was designed for a pistol, it's not a commercial shotgun caliber. If your handgun is specifically designed to take .410 ga shotshells, though, that is considered an SBS. This explains why shotshell loads are legal and a Taurus Judge isn't.

pullnshoot25
08-01-2010, 12:57 PM
Crack a shovel over its head. We had a couple raccoons gang up on our 15 year old dog who's not too spry anymore, two 'THUNK's later and there was no more problem. I never discharged a firearm, my pets life was in danger, and the problem was neutralized. I'd like to add that it wasn't cruel and unusual either, they were dead after the first hit. Neighbors never had a clue.

If it can be done that way, then by all means do so. However, raccoons are vicious creatures and may turn the tables.

adrenalinemedic
08-01-2010, 1:54 PM
Raccoons are smart, vicious, and if conditioned to people, will not back down.

I've personally witnessed a Thurston Co. Sheriffs Deputy (WA State) shoot one with a rubber shotgun round at less than 20 feet. He got hissed at for his trouble.

Take care of the problem as decisively as your local ordinances allow.

Oh, and if you shoot it, don't shoot it in the head. You crack that skull you may as well be pouring rabies soup over everything. Not the best thing to have all around your backyard, especially with pets or small children around.

Texas Boy
08-02-2010, 12:17 AM
How about this for a non-lethal, legal way to discourage varmints (with removing food sources at night)?

http://www.pepperammo.com/paintball-pepperammo.php


Pepper paintballs are pretty neat - but I'm not aware of anyone who will sell them to non LEO in California. The place quoted above is in South Africa. There is a supplier down the street from where I live, but they sell to LEO only. I know CA has some restrictions on pepper spray - not sure if the paintball projectiles are covered, but it wouldn't surprise me.

EDIT: Looks like pepper paintballs are illegal in CA. See this thread - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=204771. Note that while the statue says "tear gas" it also defines "tear gas" to include any agent meant to produce discomfort (which would include pepper). I also did a google search and all the on line places I found selling pepper balls listed CA as a no ship state. Figures.

IWc
08-02-2010, 12:49 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=204771