OK who's the sucker that sent his "off-list" lower to WA Tom??????

[rollyourown]

Is he really refusing to send you back your receiver? Anyone know this person who would send out a lower to be worked on to another state when the job could have been done here in CA?

http://www.subguns.com/boards/semimsg.cgi?read=137331

I'm Badnews there.

[Jeff Rambo]

Where is this coming from?

[phish]

You're going to need to be a little more specific: Tom Sawyer Mfg. to have engraving work done?

[rollyourown]

Where is this coming from?

Another board I frequent, see the link below.

http://www.subguns.com/boards/semimsg.cgi?read=137331

[maxicon]

The lesson here is one we should be pretty well versed in:

Many people don't understand California gun laws. Heck, it's hard to blame them, especially ones outside of California.

Before you deal with people outside of Cali on AR issues, make sure they are willing to work with you. Many aren't, regardless of what the law says.

max

[50 Freak]

yeah, but this WA Tom guy is a few rounds short of a full mag.

He refuses to read CA's laws nor even Calguns. He doesn't care 30,000 something AR receivers have legally come into CA recently.

To him, illegally seizing someone's property in the name of CYA is justified.

Jeez, if you don't want to deal with CA's screwed up gun laws, don't accept work from us.

[NRAhighpowershooter]

I hope the guy in WA gets his a** sued and/or in trouble for illegally seizing personal property...

[LOW2000]

Guy should just place a call to the local ATF office that someone has stolen his rifle and knows where it is.

[socal57chevy]

Everyone should copy and paste the info from the DOJ website and e-mail it to this Tom guy. His address is posted on subguns so he must not have a problem receiving mail from strangers.
machineguntom2 @ yahoo.com

I'm game. Just be polite.

[phish]

I wonder what kind of finish he wants done to the lower, heck, that's what Lauer's kits are for!

[blacklisted]

Guy should just place a call to the local ATF office that someone has stolen his rifle and knows where it is.

+1

The guy should tell "WA Tom" that he will notify ATF if his lower is not returned.

This guy is confused as hell...he wants to send it to an AW FFL so "another 4473 can be filed".

[Stanze]

Yikes!!!

Why the heck would you send your lower out of state other than warranty replacement after all the hassle we went through to legally obtain them???:confused:

[PanzerAce]

Ok, well, looks like he is sending it back today.

[AF_INT1N0]

The lesson here is one we should be pretty well versed in:

Many people don't understand California gun laws. Heck, it's hard to blame them, especially ones outside of California.

Before you deal with people outside of Cali on AR issues, make sure they are willing to work with you. Many aren't, regardless of what the law says.

max

Hey everyone.. This is my first post. But I had to say something on this. I am in the Air Force getting ready to PCS to Kali. And believe me it's one helluva shocker dealing with the new laws. I go from Shall issue your Military ID is proof of training $110 5 year CCW, and we call em "Rifles" in the U.S. to OMG jump through a billion hoops live one year in the county pay $210 for 2 years not including the class and you probably won't get it anyway CCW and "FELONY ASSAULT WEAPONS POSSESSION LAWS"

I can see how this guy would be a bit confused. I spent 2 hours on the Phone with CAL DOJ and I'm confused.

[blacklisted]

Hey everyone.. This is my first post. But I had to say something on this. I am in the Air Force getting ready to PCS to Kali. And believe me it's one helluva shocker dealing with the new laws. I go from Shall issue your Military ID is proof of training $110 5 year CCW, and we call em "Rifles" in the U.S. to OMG jump through a billion hoops live one year in the county pay $210 for 2 years not including the class and you probably won't get it anyway CCW and "FELONY ASSAULT WEAPONS POSSESSION LAWS"

I can see how this guy would be a bit confused. I spent 2 hours on the Phone with CAL DOJ and I'm confused.

Well, your first mistake was probably calling them on the phone. People here will be more than willing to help explain the laws to you, and the DoJ website is probably easier to understand than calling them.

Also, since you're military, there are exceptions. You can register assault weapons here.

I can also understand how someone would be confused by the laws if they hadn't seen them before, but this guy IS in the gun industry.

[50 Freak]

Welcome to Calguns.

You'll find that CA is actually a great state with good people. And as someone mentioned as a Military guy you can bring in your AW's but you may not be able to get a CCW. Depending on where you are based.

As a recommendation. If you have some questions as to what is legal and what is not, look on this forum. We will link you to the appropriate legal text or explain it to you.

Again welcome and thanks for wearing the uniform. We appreciate it.

[AF_INT1N0]

True he is in the Gun industry but many of the laws he is not subject to.

AR-15's are not against the law literally until you cross the border. The first time I talked to CAL DOJ-F division They must have thought I was a total idiot, because of my lack of knowledge of Cal gun laws. I had to explain to her that most of the states don't have those laws.

It's alot like moving to another country. :confused:

I can understand how he might wonder if California might hunt him down or something. But I don't think they would have the jurisdiction (sp)? Would they?

[bwiese]

I can understand how he might wonder if California might hunt him down or something. But I don't think they would have the jurisdiction (sp)? Would they?

Firstly, there's nothing illegal that happened. This must be one of the few AR folks that HASN'T heard what's going on in CA given that we've warped the marketplace a bit. He was pointed to correct information and still has his head in the sand. (Also, it's his business to know laws where he might have customers sending parts from - if he's so wary, he shouldn't have accepted it anyway - and he's supposed to know details of laws as he's an NFA guy!) What this guy is doing, though, may screw up the lowers' owner if these get declared as AWs shortly, so he's just a rude pig.

Now any state can prosecute for illegalities involving transactions that cross their borders. It's a common misperception that they can't. A transaction has to be legal "on all sides". States have prosecuted people, or brought civil actions against peope, in other states for some time. Try shipping mail order booze from an unregulated state into a near-dry state and see what happens (regardless of Fed law). Try advertising non-smog-exempt performance auto parts in CA and see what the ARB will do. Usually these situations result in a first 'cease and desist' letter but not always.

Because of the way the CA AW laws were written (including the "...within this state..." phrase in 12280(a), accidental sending of an AW into CA by an FFL without malice won't cause problems - esp if the owner sent it to him originally, and there was no intent to evade CA AW laws. Hell, I think it would actually be a bigger offense to send in hicap mags to CA.

[kantstudien]

This looks to be an example of what happens when two retards get together and try and plan something. Why the F would you ship your lower out of state now so that it can be engraved "Imma Badass" or something stupid like that? Also, why would you accept work from someone from "Kali" if you don't care to understand the laws here?

[50 Freak]

This looks to be an example of what happens when two retards get together and try and plan something.

Let's hope they don't breed....:D

[EBWhite]

This looks to be an example of what happens when two retards get together and try and plan something. Why the F would you ship your lower out of state now so that it can be engraved "Imma Badass" or something stupid like that? Also, why would you accept work from someone from "Kali" if you don't care to understand the laws here?

Tom Sawyer guy is willing to do engraving for CA customers as well as making a custom receiver for us. He is a very nice buy. Don't ship your receiver to someone unless they are willing to work with you. I mean thats common sense. Now, shipping a receiver to get custom work is fine, who cares?

[AF_INT1N0]

50 Freak,
Thanks for the Welcome.

Sorry to dis your State and all, I've just been messed up trying to figure out what I can and can't do since I got my orders. Actually I'm moving to Travis. (Right between Sanfransisco and Sacremento. Trying to find a place to live, but I've heard Solano is no CCW, and Yolo is not much better. (I actually called YOLO to have them tell me I could get CCW after 1 Year residency(no waiver) an 8 hour class, $210 etc. But I had to have a good reason. (Of course they can't tell me what a good reason is, and after I hand over the Money they still may decide not too make with the permit.) That; and being talked to like a criminal sucks. You elect Sherriffs there right? How do they stay sherriffs if they treat the people like crap?

At least it's not D.C. right.

Anyway sorry for the Rant.. I know it's bad form to start membership with a rant..

[50 Freak]

AF,

Actually Yolo isn't that too bad to get a CCW. Check out http://www.packing.org/state/california/image.php?stateimage=118 and Packing.org

As long as you don't try to apply in Davis, you should be in good shape. Use the reason...I do a lot of traveling to and from home and base and I often carry alot of firearms, cash, confidential materials or even hookers.....or something to that extent.

good luck. I think being in the Military will help you lots.

P.S. before you move into CA, buy as many handguns that are not on our "approved" list. Once you are here you can't buy them and if you chose to sell them to CA residents they will fetch a huge market up.

[guns_and_labs]

P.S. before you move into CA, buy as many handguns that are not on our "approved" list. Once you are here you can't buy them and if you chose to sell them to CA residents they will fetch a huge market up.

Heck, run a thread on "wish lists" here, and you could probably pay for your move.

[Charliegone]

A DOJ letter should fix him up...most of them will believe it. If he doesn't he's a dumba**.:D

I have asked around who is willing to work on ak receivers, ptr's etc and I have found some who say they will and others who won't.