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jdberger
07-29-2010, 1:59 PM
Again, the doofuses (doofi?) at Brady make a logical disconnect. They're expressing outrage that the NRA will be a participant at the Restoring Honor Rally at the Lincoln Memorial on August 28. They claim that the NRA's presence is disrespectful to the memory of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.'s legacy.

They seem to "misremember" that it was in the shadow of Abraham Lincoln's America that the NRA was born. That early NRA presidents were Generals in the Union Army which only 6 years earlier fought a war to end the abomination of slavery.

They seem to misremember that it was the NRA who voluntarily armed blacks in the Jim Crow South against Night Riders.

They seem to misremember that gun control laws are rooted in racism.

They seem to misremember that were it not for the Union Army, President Lincoln and the NRA, that Martin Luther King, Jr. would not ever had the opportunity to participate in his March on Washington or give his "I Have a Dream" speech.

For your reading enjoyment, Dennis Hennigan, Vice President for Law and Policy at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence and Founder of its Legal Action Project ($240,000/yr salary):

Dr. King and the “Guys With the Guns” at the NRA
http://blog.bradycampaign.org/?p=2556

We now know that the National Rifle Association will be joining Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin for Beck’s “Restoring Honor” rally at the Lincoln Memorial on the 47th Anniversary of Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech. Is it possible to imagine a greater offense to the legacy of Dr. King?

The NRA, the leading purveyor of the noxious notion that guns are legitimate tools of political dissent, will be standing in the historic shadow of Dr. King, the apostle of non-violent protest. Dr. King resisted calls to violence from within the civil rights movement with these words: “There is more power in socially organized masses on the march than there is in guns in the hands of a few desperate men. Our enemies would prefer to deal with a small armed group rather than with a huge, unarmed but resolute mass of people….” As history shows, the civil rights movement touched the moral conscience of our Nation, and ended the Jim Crow era, by pursuing Dr. King’s path of peaceful sit-ins and marches, rather than resisting Bull Connor’s water hoses with bullets.

What would Dr. King have thought of the wild cheers that greeted the NRA’s Wayne LaPierre, when he said this at last year’s Conservative Political Action Conference: “Freedom is nothing but dust in the wind till it’s guarded by the blue steel and dry powder of a free and armed people . . . Our founding fathers understood that the guys with the guns make the rules.” The noxious idea, long promoted by the NRA, that the Second Amendment is really about ensuring the threat of violence against the government as a legitimate strategy to achieve political change, is now an anthem of the Far Right. As Sharran Angle, the Tea Party candidate nominated by the Republicans to run for Harry Reid’s Nevada Senate seat, put it recently, “If Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies.” In other words, if the Right cannot change the direction of the country through peaceful discussion and dissent, it will be time for the “guys with the guns” to “make the rules.” We have seen the words of political intimidation translate into action, as guns have been openly brandished at Tea Party events and town hall meetings.

What irony could be more cruel than the NRA’s presence on the steps of the Memorial to President Lincoln, on the Anniversary of Dr. King’s speech, a stark reminder that both these American icons were struck down by gunfire in acts of political violence? John Wilkes Booth and James Earl Ray were “guys with the guns” who sought to change the direction of our country through armed force. We need no more powerful demonstration of the horror that can be too easily justified by the insurrectionist ideas of the NRA and its Tea Party friends. And what could be uglier than the planned appearance of guitarist Ted Nugent, an NRA Board Member, who once said that “apartheid isn’t that cut and dry,” because “all men are not created equal”?

The “Restoring Honor” rally is being sold as an entirely “non-political” event that simply will pay tribute “to America’s service personnel and other upstanding citizens who embody our nation’s founding principles of integrity, truth and honor.” But the ideological agenda is barely concealed. “Help us restore the values that founded this great nation,” says Beck’s promotional material. What values have been lost that must be restored? Who lost them? How should we restore them? The theme of “lost values that must be restored” is indistinguishable from the Tea Party demand, “We want our country back!” The NRA’s presence is an implicit statement that if our values cannot be restored throughout peaceful dissent, the “guys with the guns” will be there to restore them through other means.

In his “I Have a Dream” speech, Dr. King said this: “We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence.” The appearance of the NRA at the Lincoln Memorial on August 28 shows a shameful contempt for Dr. King’s memory and the principles of non-violent protest for which he lived, and died.

We must have faith that Dr. King’s legacy will remain strong enough to ensure that the guys with the guns do not make the rules.

For more information, see Dennis Henigan’s Lethal Logic: Exploding the Myths that Paralyze American Gun Policy (Potomac Books 2009)

Untamed1972
07-29-2010, 2:13 PM
They and a few other folks also seem to forget that 8/28 is NOT a national holiday, and the Lincoln Memorial belongs to the people and they may use it as the see fit accoring to the law. There are only 365 days in a year. I'm sure something significant has happened on just about every one of them at some point, but we can't stop living or disallow the use of everything simply because something happened there are some day and some point in history.

Sounds like they're just trying to play that "racist" card since they're losing with every other arguement and legal strategy they've tried.

Calling racism is now the new last ditch effort for anyone with no legs left ot stand on. If all else fails....call them a racist.

frankm
07-29-2010, 2:17 PM
God, I hate Communists.

Crom
07-29-2010, 2:28 PM
The NRA is the oldest civil rights group in the country. Brady seems to me to be nothing more than a hate group.

PEBKAC
07-29-2010, 2:33 PM
"Guys with guns making the rules" are not the armed citizenry wiseguys...that would be the government. After that it all kind of falls apart. :rolleyes:

Problem being this all ~sounds~ good to those that are less than informed and/or dogmatically inclined. Whether that which is being said is correct in any way is unfortunately irrelevant. :(

Theseus
07-29-2010, 2:41 PM
Wait, so two crazy guys with guns independently assassinating MLK Jr., and JFK are the same as an armed militia overthrowing their unrepresentative government.

Yes, they are exactly the same thing.:rolleyes:

383green
07-29-2010, 2:45 PM
They also seem to have forgotten about the Deacons for Defense and Justice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacons_for_Defense_and_Justice).

norcal01
07-29-2010, 2:48 PM
It's just funny to me at this point. I once told a friend, who is very liberal (and I suspect anti-2A although he's never said anything around me), that I would happily wait ten days to pick up my guns with the condition that I could make other people wait ten days to open their mouth or put pen to paper. He was so appalled that he got red in the face but after I explained that his reaction to my idea is how I feel about the 2A and firearms laws he actually understood where I was coming from. There will always be people and organizations I disagree with, and they have a right to their opinion, it's when they want their opinion to be turned into laws that restrict my rights that I start getting upset.

YubaRiver
07-29-2010, 3:43 PM
"As Sharran Angle, the Tea Party candidate nominated by the Republicans to run for Harry Reid’s Nevada Senate seat, put it recently, “If Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies.” In other words, if the Right cannot change the direction of the country through peaceful discussion and dissent, it will be time for the “guys with the guns” to “make the rules.” We have seen the words of political intimidation translate into action, as guns have been openly brandished at Tea Party events and town hall meetings. "

---

We just give the brady's ammunition when we have kooky folks like Angle
speaking for us.

Army
07-29-2010, 4:00 PM
"As Sharran Angle, the Tea Party candidate nominated by the Republicans to run for Harry Reid’s Nevada Senate seat, put it recently, “If Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies.” In other words, if the Right cannot change the direction of the country through peaceful discussion and dissent, it will be time for the “guys with the guns” to “make the rules.” We have seen the words of political intimidation translate into action, as guns have been openly brandished at Tea Party events and town hall meetings. "

---

We just give the brady's ammunition when we have kooky folks like Angle
speaking for us.
Nice try.

The "rules" are already in place, the Bill Of Rights spell them out.

No "brandishing" has occured at any Tea Party rally. There have been many dozens of law abiding citizens legally carrying firearms (see that? there's that "rule" thing going on right there!), but none have brandished their weapons in a show of force or otherwise.

Also......Sharon is right.

JTecalo
07-29-2010, 4:03 PM
using their reasoning, how do they account for wearing a cross into church?

Fate
07-29-2010, 5:25 PM
Martin Luther King was a gun owner.

http://www.lesjones.com/posts/004857.shtml

hill billy
07-29-2010, 5:39 PM
Martin Luther King was a gun owner.

http://www.lesjones.com/posts/004857.shtml

Oopsie! Figures. :D

YubaRiver
07-29-2010, 6:48 PM
Nice try.

The "rules" are already in place, the Bill Of Rights spell them out.

No "brandishing" has occured at any Tea Party rally. There have been many dozens of law abiding citizens legally carrying firearms (see that? there's that "rule" thing going on right there!), but none have brandished their weapons in a show of force or otherwise.

Also......Sharon is right.

Well, which is it? Are you agreeing with Sharon's "If Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies." threats to get your
way or not?

Apocalypsenerd
07-29-2010, 6:53 PM
I would like to point out to everyone the nature of the Brady speech. It once again suggests that all people with guns are bad guys. The antis have this aspect of the culture war down real well.

We need to come up with words and speech patterns, that while remaining ethical and honest, portray gun owners positively, and antis as the destroyers of liberty that they are.

7x57
07-29-2010, 7:10 PM
We just give the brady's ammunition when we have kooky folks like Angle
speaking for us.

When the justice department will not vigorously prosecute voter intimidation because of the races involved, I actually no longer care about that concern. I quit being a nice person in November, 2008, and I don't miss it at all.

7x57

Apocalypsenerd
07-29-2010, 7:14 PM
When Arlington Cemetary violates the graves of the most important people to have died for our country, one wonders about a lot of things.

hill billy
07-29-2010, 7:17 PM
When the justice department will not vigorously prosecute voter intimidation because of the races involved, I actually no longer care about that concern. I quit being a nice person in November, 2008, and I don't miss it at all.

7x57

Well put. I am sick of being nice. Luckily we have nice folks who put on the good face for the CGF.

morfeeis
07-29-2010, 7:19 PM
They and a few other folks also seem to forget that 8/28 is NOT a national holiday, and the Lincoln Memorial belongs to the people and they may use it as the see fit accoring to the law. There are only 365 days in a year. I'm sure something significant has happened on just about every one of them at some point, but we can't stop living or disallow the use of everything simply because something happened there are some day and some point in history.

Sounds like they're just trying to play that "racist" card since they're losing with every other arguement and legal strategy they've tried.

Calling racism is now the new last ditch effort for anyone with no legs left ot stand on. If all else fails....call them a racist.
raciest :sarcasm:

Army
07-29-2010, 7:35 PM
Well, which is it? Are you agreeing with Sharon's "If Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies." threats to get your
way or not?
Yes I do, that is the premise of the 2ndA: an armed society that holds it's government in check. It is not a threat, it is how the founding fathers established our citizen run, representative government.

Sharon says, that if the current administration continues its devolution into socialism or communism, than it is up to us citizens to set it back on the right track.

dark_ninja
07-29-2010, 7:47 PM
More lies and attacks based on emotion rather than hard facts! When has the NRA ever endorsed political change through violence and the use of firearms!? Always with the picking and choosing about what suits them and what does not!

trashman
07-29-2010, 7:56 PM
They seem to misremember that gun control laws are rooted in racism.


It really gets anti-gunnies passionately angry whenever I raise this point; it just contravenes their core belief that gun owners are generally just paranoid white racist rednecks.

--Neill

jdberger
07-29-2010, 8:24 PM
"As Sharran Angle, the Tea Party candidate nominated by the Republicans to run for Harry Reid’s Nevada Senate seat, put it recently, “If Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies.” In other words, if the Right cannot change the direction of the country through peaceful discussion and dissent, it will be time for the “guys with the guns” to “make the rules.” We have seen the words of political intimidation translate into action, as guns have been openly brandished at Tea Party events and town hall meetings. "

---

We just give the brady's ammunition when we have kooky folks like Angle
speaking for us.

Sharon Angle doesn't speak for gun owners. Suggesting that she does plays into the Brady's hands.

See Saul Alinsky's Rule 11

Rule 11: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it. Don’t try to attack abstract corporations or bureaucracies. Identify a responsible individual. Ignore attempts to shift or spread the blame.

The Bradys will always try to identify gun owners with crazy, racist, unhinged, wacky, uneducated boors.*

We need to emphasize that Gun Control is one of the last vestiges of Jim Crow racism (http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html). That the Bradys aren't simply content with suppressing the rights in the Second Amendment, but the rights in the First as well (http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2010/06/15/brady-campaign-against-disclose/). That their interpretation of the Constitution has been almost universally rejected and that they're a dying organization desperate for funds to pay bloated salaries.

It's simple. We are winning and they're growing more desperate. :chris:




*I'm not suggesting that Sharon Angle is these things - just illustrating a point.

N6ATF
07-29-2010, 8:34 PM
In other words, if the Right cannot change the direction of the country through peaceful discussion and dissent, it will be time for the “guys with the guns” to “make the rules.” We have seen the words of political intimidation translate into action, as guns have been openly brandished at Tea Party events and town hall meetings. "

Funny, the town halls with guns lawfully openly carried resulted in peaceful discussion and dissent, and those without descended into quasi-riots. So once again they libel and slander to cover the fact they prefer hostility, chaos and murder in a world where criminals have all the power.

Theseus
07-29-2010, 10:54 PM
Funny, the town halls with guns lawfully openly carried resulted in peaceful discussion and dissent, and those without descended into quasi-riots. So once again they libel and slander to cover the fact they prefer hostility, chaos and murder in a world where criminals have all the power.

Maybe they actually liked the quasi-riotous state so that there was less debate on the actual subject at hand?

Hopi
07-29-2010, 11:06 PM
When the justice department will not vigorously prosecute voter intimidation because of the races involved, I actually no longer care about that concern. I quit being a nice person in November, 2008, and I don't miss it at all.

7x57

Sharon Angle doesn't speak for gun owners. Suggesting that she does plays into the Brady's hands.

See Saul Alinsky's Rule 11

The Bradys will always try to identify gun owners with crazy, racist, unhinged, wacky, uneducated boors.*

We need to emphasize that Gun Control is one of the last vestiges of Jim Crow racism (http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/cramer.racism.html). That the Bradys aren't simply content with suppressing the rights in the Second Amendment, but the rights in the First as well (http://www.snowflakesinhell.com/2010/06/15/brady-campaign-against-disclose/). That their interpretation of the Constitution has been almost universally rejected and that they're a dying organization desperate for funds to pay bloated salaries.

It's simple. We are winning and they're growing more desperate. :chris:




Both of these posts needed to be qft. Bravo.

ErikTheRed
07-30-2010, 1:15 AM
Angle may not be speaking for all gun owners, but she sure as hell should be. She is RIGHT ON THE MONEY with the above referenced quote, for her quote quite clearly illustrates the Founding Father's intent with the creation of the 2nd Amendment in the first place. Please do not let the P/C police confuse your opinion of what should be perfectly understood by all America-loving patriots. Our guns CAN, SHOULD, and eventually WILL be used to defend our freedom and liberty from any threats to condemn them, and I don't give a fuzzy rat's butt if that fact somehow casts a dark shadow over the image of gun owners.

jdberger
07-30-2010, 10:13 AM
Angle may not be speaking for all gun owners, but she sure as hell should be. She is RIGHT ON THE MONEY with the above referenced quote, for her quote quite clearly illustrates the Founding Father's intent with the creation of the 2nd Amendment in the first place. Please do not let the P/C police confuse your opinion of what should be perfectly understood by all America-loving patriots. Our guns CAN, SHOULD, and eventually WILL be used to defend our freedom and liberty from any threats to condemn them, and I don't give a fuzzy rat's butt if that fact somehow casts a dark shadow over the image of gun owners.

Unfortunately, this is an image war.

You can take the stance of GOA and pout and scream that "this is our right which shall not be infringed" all you like and you'll likely be as effective at securing it.*

Or you can clean up. Wear a jacket and tie. Restrain your words. Work for incremental change. Demonstrate that gun owners and activists aren't fire-breathing insurrectionist malcontents - we're simply civil rights activists.

We have a road map. What we're doing has been done before. It was successful. John Brown may have recieved headlines - but it was careful litigation and diplomacy that brought equality to blacks.

Think about it.






*For the record, below is an exhaustive list of litigation and legislative victories credited to the Gun Owners of America (the "no compromise gun lobby"):


.

SJgunguy24
07-30-2010, 10:56 AM
I wonder why the anti's are always the one yelling and making threats, while being protected by the police.
Or at least the puppet masters have police protection. They like to call in the stooges to pick their fights and do their screaming. At the same time if one of us so much as makes a move that could be deemed threatening or in defense of ourselves, we would be arrested and smeared in the media.

They wrap themselves in the flag and the constitution, and yet they try to steal the rights that are guaranteed by the constitution. They have no idea of how and why those things are sacred to us, they have no idea why people died defending the constitution. If they did, they would quit trying to destroy what so many have fought to preserve.

N6ATF
07-30-2010, 11:43 AM
They wrap themselves in flag diapers and use Constitution-print baby wipes.

wash
07-30-2010, 12:20 PM
Angle may not be speaking for all gun owners, but she sure as hell should be. She is RIGHT ON THE MONEY with the above referenced quote, for her quote quite clearly illustrates the Founding Father's intent with the creation of the 2nd Amendment in the first place. Please do not let the P/C police confuse your opinion of what should be perfectly understood by all America-loving patriots. Our guns CAN, SHOULD, and eventually WILL be used to defend our freedom and liberty from any threats to condemn them, and I don't give a fuzzy rat's butt if that fact somehow casts a dark shadow over the image of gun owners.
If I'm not mistaken, even the NRA is supporting her democrat opponent, although the reasoning is political more than anything she said or believes in.

But that right there says a lot, the NRA is a political organization, not revolutionaries and that's the biggest group that represents us.

We fight things in the courts and show up in suit and tie to peacefully protest when we need to (or not ;-).

advocatusdiaboli
07-30-2010, 5:55 PM
We just give the brady's ammunition when we have kooky folks like Angle
speaking for us.

True that. THe things that come out of that woman's mouth are sometimes indicative of a person who has suffered a break with reality. Reid will beat but that's fine since he's pro2A. My worry is that in other places, extremism like hers will keep gun-grabbing socialist Democrats in power.

hill billy
07-30-2010, 5:57 PM
True that. THe things that come out of that woman's mouth are sometimes indicative of a person who has suffered a break with reality. Reid will beat but that's fine since he's pro2A. My worry is that in other places, extremism like hers will keep gun-grabbing socialist Democrats in power.

You're fine Harry Reid staying in his seat? Wow.

YubaRiver
07-30-2010, 8:44 PM
You're fine Harry Reid staying in his seat? Wow.

http://www.htzfm.com/files/htzfm/images/charles%20schumer.jpg

hill billy
07-30-2010, 8:46 PM
http://www.htzfm.com/files/htzfm/images/charles%20schumer.jpg

Yep, we lose either way. I hate them both.

Chester
07-30-2010, 8:48 PM
Funny thing is... the Brady Campaign seems to "misremember" that if it weren't for guns, none of us would have any of these rights in the first place.

socal2310
07-31-2010, 6:37 AM
Calling racism is now the new last ditch effort for anyone with no legs left ot stand on. If all else fails....call them a racist.

Yep, another variant on Godwin's law.

Ryan

YubaRiver
08-01-2010, 8:28 PM
Yes I do, that is the premise of the 2ndA: an armed society that holds it's government in check. It is not a threat, it is how the founding fathers established our citizen run, representative government.

Sharon says, that if the current administration continues its devolution into socialism or communism, than it is up to us citizens to set it back on the right track.

Like these guys?

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/2-prison-guards-face-charges-for-shooting-range/T7TywdSx-0efWskrT3nupg.cspx

dantodd
08-01-2010, 10:05 PM
Like these guys?

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/2-prison-guards-face-charges-for-shooting-range/T7TywdSx-0efWskrT3nupg.cspx

Yes, they will save us all along with the nutjob who got pulled over on his way to take out the ACLU and Tides Foundation last week.

Lulfas
08-02-2010, 7:23 AM
Yes, they will save us all along with the nutjob who got pulled over on his way to take out the ACLU and Tides Foundation last week.

And the guy who went to take over a Tenneessee court house and wasn't smart enough to keep his mouth shut and drive the speed limit.

jdberger
08-02-2010, 8:21 AM
And the guy who went to take over a Tenneessee court house and wasn't smart enough to keep his mouth shut and drive the speed limit.

Thank goodness for stupid criminals!

joedogboy
08-02-2010, 8:39 AM
Remember the rallying cry of the Brady Bill - It doesn't matter if it's constitutional or not. It doesn't matter whose rights are violated. "If it saves even one life, it's worth it."

I think we should resurrect that idea, and the NRA should run ads showing average Americans whose lives were saved by the use (or even mere presence) of firearms in the hands of citizens.

Gun ownership - if it saves even one life, it's worth it.

I mean, think of the children....

timdps
08-02-2010, 8:52 AM
Good idea. Turn it around and throw it back at them!

Tim

Remember the rallying cry of the Brady Bill - It doesn't matter if it;s constitutional or not. It doesn't matter whose rights are violated. "If it saves even one life, it's worth it."

I think we should resurrect that idea, and the NRA should run ads showing average Americans whose lives were saved by the use (or even mere presence) of firearms in the hands of citizens.

Gun ownership - if it saves even one life, it's worth it.

I mean, think of the children....

Doug L
08-02-2010, 8:54 AM
...They seem to "misremember" that it was in the shadow of Abraham Lincoln's America that the NRA was born. That early NRA presidents were Generals in the Union Army which only 6 years earlier fought a war to end the abomination of slavery.

They seem to misremember that it was the NRA who voluntarily armed blacks in the Jim Crow South against Night Riders...

Unfortunately for us and for the fate of our republic, the looney lefties misremember a whole lot of things.

Actually, they misremember anything that's inconvenient to the execution of their tyranical agenda.

jdberger
08-02-2010, 8:57 AM
Remember the rallying cry of the Brady Bill - It doesn't matter if it;s constitutional or not. It doesn't matter whose rights are violated. "If it saves even one life, it's worth it."

I think we should resurrect that idea, and the NRA should run ads showing average Americans whose lives were saved by the use (or even mere presence) of firearms in the hands of citizens.

Gun ownership - if it saves even one life, it's worth it.

I mean, think of the children....

Yes.

They question to ask is, "Why do you seek to put my life at risk to assuage your irrational fear? Why do you insist on endangering my children simply because you're afraid of guns?"

CP562
08-02-2010, 5:40 PM
Remember the rallying cry of the Brady Bill - It doesn't matter if it;s constitutional or not. It doesn't matter whose rights are violated. "If it saves even one life, it's worth it."

I think we should resurrect that idea, and the NRA should run ads showing average Americans whose lives were saved by the use (or even mere presence) of firearms in the hands of citizens.

Gun ownership - if it saves even one life, it's worth it.

I mean, think of the children....

Post of the day!

joedogboy
08-03-2010, 8:56 PM
Post of the day!

Thanks.