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View Full Version : Loaded Guns In Cars. Is That A Felony In California?


Wyatt Burp
07-27-2010, 8:34 PM
I know it is in some cities like Oakland and it's got to be in S.F. But statewide is it a felony to have a loaded gun in your car?

Librarian
07-27-2010, 9:04 PM
I know it is in some cities like Oakland and it's got to be in S.F. But statewide is it a felony to have a loaded gun in your car?

Actually, you can't know that, because only state law can create felonies - cities/counties are limited to misdemeanors and infractions.

Just a loaded gun in a car would be a violation of PC 12031 - other circumstances may change the penalty by adding more crimes12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.
(2) Carrying a loaded firearm in violation of this section is
punishable, as follows:
(A) Where the person previously has been convicted of any felony,
or of any crime made punishable by this chapter, as a felony.
(B) Where the firearm is stolen and the person knew or had
reasonable cause to believe that it was stolen, as a felony.
(C) Where the person is an active participant in a criminal street
gang, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 186.22, under the
Street Terrorism Enforcement and Prevention Act (Chapter 11
(commencing with Section 186.20) of Title 7 of Part 1), as a felony.
(D) Where the person is not in lawful possession of the firearm,
as defined in this section, or is within a class of persons
prohibited from possessing or acquiring a firearm pursuant to Section
12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare
and Institutions Code, as a felony.
(E) Where the person has been convicted of a crime against a
person or property, or of a narcotics or dangerous drug violation, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(F) Where the person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 11106, as the registered owner of the handgun, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or both that fine and imprisonment.
(G) In all cases other than those specified in subparagraphs (A)
to (F), inclusive, as a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment in a
county jail not to exceed one year, by a fine not to exceed one
thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.

MP301
07-28-2010, 12:12 AM
Actually, you can't know that, because only state law can create felonies - cities/counties are limited to misdemeanors and infractions.

Just a loaded gun in a car would be a violation of PC 12031 - other circumstances may change the penalty by adding more crimes

Wait a second. I just noticed something.

In this section...

(F) Where the person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 11106, as the registered owner of the handgun, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or both that fine and imprisonment.

I would guess this is the section where they charge a Felony if the gun is not registered to you...even if its legally yours....yet, unlike the other sections for this upgrade to a Felony, it doesnt specifically say it...and the punishment is not to exceed one year...which usually means a Misdemeanor....


I wonder how that works???

dantodd
07-28-2010, 12:14 AM
Wait a second. I just noticed something.

In this section...

(F) Where the person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 11106, as the registered owner of the handgun, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or both that fine and imprisonment.

I would guess this is the section where they charge a Felony if the gun is not registered to you...even if its legally yours....yet, unlike the other sections for this upgrade to a Felony, it doesnt specifically say it...and the punishment is not to exceed one year...which usually means a Misdemeanor....


I wonder how that works???

And County Jail which also means misdemeanor.

ErikTheRed
07-28-2010, 1:15 AM
A CCW would make it perfectly legal anywhere in the state. Can you get a CCW where you live?

BigDogatPlay
07-28-2010, 2:35 AM
Wait a second. I just noticed something.

In this section...

(F) Where the person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 11106, as the registered owner of the handgun, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or both that fine and imprisonment.

I would guess this is the section where they charge a Felony if the gun is not registered to you...even if its legally yours....yet, unlike the other sections for this upgrade to a Felony, it doesnt specifically say it...and the punishment is not to exceed one year...which usually means a Misdemeanor....


I wonder how that works???

It's called a "wobbler", a California term, and can go either way. The arrest will be booked as a felony and the original charge sheet will usually say felony. But they can be amended to and adjudicated as misdemeanors, under certain circumstances identified in the Penal Code.

PsychGuy274
07-28-2010, 3:03 AM
California legal loaded gun while in a vehicle = misdemeanor unless you have a CCW.

Spirit 1
07-28-2010, 7:40 AM
"12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

Interesting and wondering what other citations of law apply. It seems to say I can legally carry a loaded firearm in my vehicle and/or on my person in any unincorporated area in which there is no specific prohibition?

That is, with loaded carry in a vehicle or not, on a country road or in areas away from incorporated cities and/or away from unincorporated territory which has a specific prohibition, I am legally carrying within the law? Of course that's assuming gun is registered to me and legal to own in the state and I'm not a convicted felon etc.]

If that's true it's news to me!

cmth
07-28-2010, 8:17 AM
It is legal to have a loaded, unconcealed handgun in a vehicle, as it is to have one on your person, in any unincorporated area where the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited. See People v. Knight (2004). If the firearm is not a handgun but a rifle or a shotgun, then you cannot have a round in the chamber, because Fish & Game Code 2006 then applies.


It is unlawful to possess a loaded rifle or shotgun in any
vehicle or conveyance or its attachments which is standing on or
along or is being driven on or along any public highway or other way
open to the public.
A rifle or shotgun shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes
of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell in the
firing chamber but not when the only cartridges or shells are in the
magazine.

sevensix2x51
07-28-2010, 9:00 AM
it is a misdemeanor, and it is booked as a misdemeanor. i know, because thats how they booked me, in my younger days.

Spirit 1
07-28-2010, 9:09 AM
Thanks much, cmth!

I'm surprised this isn't better known in general, never ever heard that before. Many times I'm traveling in just such unincorporated areas [where I happen to live] but mistakenly thought the laws regarding 'transport only in a locked container', with ammo in a 'separate locked container' ALWAYS applied, everywhere in California.

Thanks...

putput
07-28-2010, 9:16 AM
Locked container is for school zones. Separate locked container for ammo is total fud.

Thanks much, cmth!

I'm surprised this isn't better known in general, never ever heard that before. Many times I'm traveling in just such unincorporated areas [where I happen to live] but mistakenly thought the laws regarding 'transport only in a locked container', with ammo in a 'separate locked container' ALWAYS applied, everywhere in California.

Thanks...

paul0660
07-28-2010, 9:21 AM
Isn't it illegal to shoot from, or across roads, in general?

Spirit 1
07-28-2010, 9:25 AM
Hmmmm....

What's this I see continuously about handgun must be locked in a compartment when transporting and it can't be the 'console' of the vehicle? Also read all the time that ammo is best carried locked in the trunk, completely away from the firearm.

And what about post #7?

Are y'all saying that this only applies to incorporated areas, and is entirely incorrect regarding ammo being locked up? Pretty serious stuff and now very confusing...

donny douchebag
07-28-2010, 9:39 AM
Wait a second. I just noticed something.

In this section...

(F) Where the person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 11106, as the registered owner of the handgun, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or both that fine and imprisonment.

That brings up a question for me. When I moved to California (1980) I brought with me a little Ruger Bearcat 22 I'd been given as a teenager in the 70's. At the time I asked the local police department what I needed to do about registering it and they said nothing. I still have that gun. Must it now be registered and can I be charged if it were found not to be?

paul0660
07-28-2010, 9:43 AM
Donny you don't have to register the gun. If you wish to, use this:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/oplaw.pdf

Librarian
07-28-2010, 8:10 PM
Locked container is for school zones. Separate locked container for ammo is total fud.

1 for 2. Ammo need not be locked.

BUT - if you choose to transport a handgun concealed, and you do not have CCW, then the legal way to do so is following the procedure in PC 12026.1 and 12026.2: unloaded, in a completely enclosed, locked case.

See the Wiki (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting).

dantodd
07-28-2010, 9:54 PM
That brings up a question for me. When I moved to California (1980) I brought with me a little Ruger Bearcat 22 I'd been given as a teenager in the 70's. At the time I asked the local police department what I needed to do about registering it and they said nothing. I still have that gun. Must it now be registered and can I be charged if it were found not to be?

You are not required to register the weapon but if you are popped for unpermitted concealed carry it is a more serious offense if the gun is not registered in your name. I have also heard that many issuing authorities require any gun listed on the permit to be registered to the permit holder.

putput
07-29-2010, 8:05 AM
I meant as in open carry. But it's all knit picky which I believe is what the whole point of this post is and what we all HATE...


1 for 2. Ammo need not be locked.

BUT - if you choose to transport a handgun concealed, and you do not have CCW, then the legal way to do so is following the procedure in PC 12026.1 and 12026.2: unloaded, in a completely enclosed, locked case.

See the Wiki (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Transporting).

Average Joe American
09-13-2010, 9:18 PM
Ok so open carry is legal on the street, but can you open carry in a vehicle?

Librarian
09-13-2010, 9:24 PM
Ok so open carry is legal on the street, but can you open carry in a vehicle?

Yes (unloaded). Remember the school zone problem, though.

The Original Godfather
09-13-2010, 9:26 PM
Ok so open carry is legal on the street, but can you open carry in a vehicle?

UOC is legal on the street as is UOC in your vehicle... just remember not in a GFSZ though...

Decoligny
09-14-2010, 8:20 AM
Wait a second. I just noticed something.

In this section...

(F) Where the person is not listed with the Department of Justice
pursuant to Section 11106, as the registered owner of the handgun, by
imprisonment in the state prison, or by imprisonment in a county
jail not to exceed one year, or by a fine not to exceed one thousand
dollars ($1,000), or both that fine and imprisonment.

I would guess this is the section where they charge a Felony if the gun is not registered to you...even if its legally yours....yet, unlike the other sections for this upgrade to a Felony, it doesnt specifically say it...and the punishment is not to exceed one year...which usually means a Misdemeanor....


I wonder how that works???

I thought that for a charge to land you in STATE PRISON, it had to be a felony.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
09-14-2010, 12:32 PM
I thought that for a charge to land you in STATE PRISON, it had to be a felony.

This subsection can be charged as a felony or a misdemeanor... referred to (as previously noted in this thread) as a "wobbler". Would usually be arrested/booked as a felony but can be amended upon decision of the charging DA, or by the Court under PC Section 17(b).

ilikeguns
09-14-2010, 12:39 PM
So...a locked handgun case with unloaded handgun inside is ok under the driver seat? And in school zones?

mej16489
09-14-2010, 12:42 PM
So...a locked handgun case with unloaded handgun inside is ok under the driver seat? And in school zones?

Generally speaking; Yes - I would suggest researching LUCC (http://www.google.com/cse?cx=018149931542195181678%3Apzxbzjzh1zk&ie=UTF-8&q=LUCC&siteurl=www.google.com%2Fcse%2Fhome%3Fcx%3D0181499 31542195181678%3Apzxbzjzh1zk)

ilikeguns
09-14-2010, 12:46 PM
Im actually the last guy who commented in that LUCC post. I drive to college alot, and am worried about locked handgun in vehicle. Just want to clarify that a locked case in front of vehicle is ok in school zone.

paul0660
09-14-2010, 1:06 PM
12026.1:

(a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not prohibited by state
or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a
firearm, from transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other
firearm capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that
the following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment.


That is all it says. Policemen, gun store employees, average joes, hysterical antis, and anyone else can have a different take on what the law is, but that is what it says.

winnre
09-14-2010, 3:35 PM
Do "School Zones" still count in summer when school is out?

Gray Peterson
09-14-2010, 3:54 PM
Do "School Zones" still count in summer when school is out?

Yes.

Librarian
09-14-2010, 8:10 PM
Im actually the last guy who commented in that LUCC post. I drive to college alot, and am worried about locked handgun in vehicle. Just want to clarify that a locked case in front of vehicle is ok in school zone.
In the school zone, yes; actually on campus, no.

paul0660
09-14-2010, 8:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by winnre View Post
Do "School Zones" still count in summer when school is out?
Yes.

Actually the school zone law refers to a school "providing instruction in grades K thru 12" which should read "which is....etc" which is absolutely PRESENT tense and implies that the GFSZ only exists when instruction is taking place, much like a 25 mph zone. What the law should say, if 24/7/365 enforcement is the idea, is "a school which provides.........etc."

But no one agrees with me and no I am not going to volunteer to be a test case.....at any rate it is not surprising that the people who write these things can't.....write.

jester
09-15-2010, 7:01 AM
I'll take "common sense" for $100 Alex