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sd_shooter
07-27-2010, 9:23 AM
I recently went shooting on BLM land with my brother and we got stopped at one of the many BP checkpoints when driving back to San Diego. They asked us our citizenship. My brother is not a US citizen but was legally in the country and had a valid passport for ID.

However one of the BP guys noticed the big "NRA" logo on my hat and all the gear in the back of the car and figured out we'd been plinking. He said "BTW, only US citizens are allowed to handle firearms, but I'll let it go this time." (Hmmmm.)

I know the DROS form has an area where one can fill out the Alien registration number when buying a gun, so I'm sure non citizens can handle guns.

But is it ok for a legal non-immigrant?

paul0660
07-27-2010, 9:27 AM
Discussed here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=325544

Untamed1972
07-27-2010, 9:43 AM
Just another example of why not you wear firearms related items and/or have obviiusly visible firearms related gear visible especially when going thru a BP check point. Just not worth the hassle.

thayne
07-27-2010, 9:43 AM
FUD

sd_shooter
07-27-2010, 9:44 AM
Thanks for the link - Holy moly!

I guess we'll make sure to have hunting licenses next time, then we'll be out "hunting" instead of plinking. (Good grief...)

pullnshoot25
07-27-2010, 9:45 AM
You are not require to tell citizenship.

That said, the law the agent stated is essentially unenforceable. Tread carefully though.

sd_shooter
07-27-2010, 9:45 AM
FUD

What part is FUD?

pullnshoot25
07-27-2010, 9:46 AM
Just another example of why not you wear firearms related items and/or have obviiusly visible firearms related gear visible especially when going thru a BP check point. Just not worth the hassle.

Or you just remain silent and/or tell the BP to pound glass.

sd_shooter
07-27-2010, 9:47 AM
You are not require to tell citizenship.


Really? At the BP checkpoints this is the first thing they ask if anyone non-white is sitting in the car.

It helps if I have my kids with me, then I definitely get waved through.

Big Jake
07-27-2010, 9:48 AM
FUD

This. I would have told the BP agent which body part he could kiss!

paul0660
07-27-2010, 9:49 AM
The fud is that you have to be a citizen. Legal immigrant aliens can "handle guns". Visitors, it would seem, are restricted to hunting.

frankm
07-27-2010, 9:53 AM
20 years ago, they would just want to shoot our guns.

pullnshoot25
07-27-2010, 9:53 AM
They can ask, you do not have to divulge. They pulled that with my brother and they left empty handed ;)

dieselpower
07-27-2010, 9:56 AM
FUD


WRONG.

You should have read the thread. AS per the BATFE...

Q: I’m a nonimmigrant alien who is coming to the United States for two weeks to go hunting. Can I rent a firearm in the United States to use on this trip? What if I want to go to a shooting range one day — can I rent a firearm there as well?

As long as you possess a valid hunting license from a State within the United States, you may rent firearms to hunt and to use at a shooting range. If you do not have the hunting license, your possession of the firearms and ammunition will be unlawful. The hunting license does not have to be from the State where you will be possessing the guns and ammunition.

So handing a firearm to a visiting person is illegal. The only execption to this rule is hunting. Its the same in most Counrties around the world. You can go to a country and hunt, rent a firearm...only with a HUNTING license. Go to that same Country without a Hunting license and get caught shooting a gun and you go to jail, along with the person who handed the gun to you.

winnre
07-27-2010, 9:57 AM
Hunting licenses are not cheap here! About $200!

nick
07-27-2010, 9:58 AM
Just another example of why not you wear firearms related items and/or have obviiusly visible firearms related gear visible especially when going thru a BP check point. Just not worth the hassle.

Just another example why governments can't be entrusted with enforcing the laws as they are today - they're way too complicated and there're way too many of them for anyone to know them well enough to enforce them.

SJgunguy24
07-27-2010, 9:58 AM
20 years ago, they would just want to shoot our guns.


20 years ago the illegal immigration invasion problem hadn't blown up to the problem it is today.

paul0660
07-27-2010, 9:59 AM
Wait a minute!.........BP was not correct in that citizens are the only people who can "handle guns"! Legal immigrants may. Visitors may with hunting license...................OK?

nick
07-27-2010, 10:00 AM
WRONG.

You should have read the thread. AS per the BATFE...

Q: I’m a nonimmigrant alien who is coming to the United States for two weeks to go hunting. Can I rent a firearm in the United States to use on this trip? What if I want to go to a shooting range one day — can I rent a firearm there as well?

As long as you possess a valid hunting license from a State within the United States, you may rent firearms to hunt and to use at a shooting range. If you do not have the hunting license, your possession of the firearms and ammunition will be unlawful. The hunting license does not have to be from the State where you will be possessing the guns and ammunition.

So handing a firearm to a visiting person is illegal.

This, however, applies to nonimmigrant aliens. Not sure if that was the case with OP's brother.

pullnshoot25
07-27-2010, 10:01 AM
Looks like renting a firearm is the root of the issue. Is being in the immediate company and supervision of a citizen not a different circumstance?

IrishPirate
07-27-2010, 10:05 AM
The fud is that you have to be a citizen. Legal immigrant aliens can "handle guns". Visitors, it would seem, are restricted to hunting.

almost...they are restricted to only handling guns if they have a hunting license. They don't have to be hunting. The hunting license is like their "gun safety card". It can be from any state too so if you have visitors who want to shoot guns, find out where they can easily get the cheapest hunting license and then they'll be good.......or stay away from questionable BP guards...no cop i know would enforce such a rediculous rule.

Willy Mane
07-27-2010, 10:07 AM
You are not require to tell citizenship.



Remember, you are not required to state citizenship at NON-ENTRY point checkpoints. If you are attempting to enter America from Mexico or Canada or any other country (at the airport or seaport) then you are required by law to state citizenship. Failure to state citizenship at entry points is immediate and lawful grounds to deny entry, even to American citizens.

In addition, inspections of vehicles and persons or property at entry points does NOT require "reasonable suspicion". Failure to allow inspections can and will result in denied entry into America, even for American citizens.

Non-entry point inspection stations, suck as those in Arizona which dont have a nexis to the border have been ruled constitutional in as much as they are allowed to make you stop at the checkpoint. However, absent of any reasonable suspicion of non citizenship you are not required by law to state citizenship or consent to vehicle searches. Failure to give consent or failure to state is NOT reasonable or lawful suspicion.

pullnshoot25
07-27-2010, 10:08 AM
You are not require to tell citizenship.

Remember, you are not required to state citizenship at NON-ENTRY point checkpoints. If you are attempting to enter America from Mexico or Canada or any other country (at the airport or seaport) then you are required by law to state citizenship. Failure to state citizenship at entry points is immediate and lawful grounds to deny entry, even to American citizens.

In addition, inspections of vehicles and persons or property at entry points does NOT require "reasonable suspicion". Failure to allow inspections can and will result in denied entry into America, even for American citizens.

Non-entry point inspection stations, suck as those in Arizona which dont have a nexis to the border have been ruled constitutional in as much as they are allowed to make you stop at the checkpoint. However, absent of any reasonable suspicion of non citizenship you are not required by law to state citizenship or consent to vehicle searches. Failure to give consent or failure to state is NOT reasonable or lawful suspicion.

Thank you for the elaboration, I appreciate it. :)

winnre
07-27-2010, 10:16 AM
Found this opinion:

Casual use is NOT ownership, it is NOT possession where there is supervision by the ACTUAL owner or their designated representative.

In fact the way the law is currently written a tourist has greater potential legal access to firearms than a US citizen with a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction.

Under federal law, just handing someone a firearm to shoot, does not transfer possession of that firearm.

As long as the firearm remains under control of the original owner, anyone who is not a prohibited person, may shoot the gun.

There is a slight point of confusion here because while a tourist can not buy a gun, they are not automatically a prohibited person.

Even if you own an NFA firearm, like a machine gun, you can let anyone, including a foreign citizen, shoot the gun as long as it remains under your control. That is how machine gun rental ranges operate. They won't rent you the gun to take home for the weekend, but you can shoot all the ammo you can afford at their range where they remain in possession and control.

The hunting license requirement for foreigners only applies if they intend to posses and keep a gun. i.e. bring a rifle from their country of residence and keep it with them full time.

dieselpower
07-27-2010, 10:20 AM
Looks like renting a firearm is the root of the issue. Is being in the immediate company and supervision of a citizen not a different circumstance?

IICR...Nevada has gaming laws that override that BATFE law...sorta. If the BATFE wanted to bust a rental shop under the "nonimmigrant without hunting license rule", it would be an uphill battle and Nevada would scream States rights. The BATFE backs down and doesnt push it.

As for a rental shop here in CA., unless they have written permission from the DoJ, they can not rent firearms nor can they loan firearms (safety / training classes) to nonimmigrants.

The same would be for a visiting friend or brother in this case, you can not loan or give them a firearm. Its the same as giving or loaning a firearm to a felon.

BUT, this is a clear case of cluster F law, if you should happen to get busted for this as long as you do not admit you knew it was against the law, AND there are no other contributing factors (dead body, unregistered AW, unregistered NFA) the charges would be pled down and most likely dropped.

halifax
07-27-2010, 10:20 AM
Found this opinion:

Casual use is NOT ownership, it is NOT possession where there is supervision by the ACTUAL owner or their designated representative.

In fact the way the law is currently written a tourist has greater potential legal access to firearms than a US citizen with a misdemeanor domestic violence conviction.

Under federal law, just handing someone a firearm to shoot, does not transfer possession of that firearm.

As long as the firearm remains under control of the original owner, anyone who is not a prohibited person, may shoot the gun.

There is a slight point of confusion here because while a tourist can not buy a gun, they are not automatically a prohibited person.

Even if you own an NFA firearm, like a machine gun, you can let anyone, including a foreign citizen, shoot the gun as long as it remains under your control. That is how machine gun rental ranges operate. They won't rent you the gun to take home for the weekend, but you can shoot all the ammo you can afford at their range where they remain in possession and control.

The hunting license requirement for foreigners only applies if they intend to posses and keep a gun. i.e. bring a rifle from their country of residence and keep it with them full time.

Just curious, whose opinion is that?

nick
07-27-2010, 10:29 AM
So, if someone from abroad visits me, we go to the range, and he shoots my guns, that's a big no-no?

winnre
07-27-2010, 10:30 AM
Just curious, whose opinion is that?

The guy knows folks from the gun store in Las Vegas where they rent auto weapons. Found it with google. I guess if there is a guy standing two feet from you with a loaded Glock in case you get stupid then you can argue you do not have true possession (full control).

Rhys898
07-27-2010, 10:47 AM
The guy knows folks from the gun store in Las Vegas where they rent auto weapons. Found it with google. I guess if there is a guy standing two feet from you with a loaded Glock in case you get stupid then you can argue you do not have true possession (full control).

"The Gun Store" that does full auto rentals on Tropicana does that. They have a guy accompany you to your own range room, each room has three bays, he has a holstered side arm. I carried the mp5 and he carried the mags, he got the target set up on the hanger, asked for the mp5, loaded and charged it,gave me basic instructions, set it down on the counter and stepped back. While I was shooting his hand was not on his gun, but was close enough.

Fjold
07-27-2010, 12:03 PM
Hunting licenses are not cheap here! About $200!

If the OP's brother is a legal resident alien the cost is $41.50 but he will also have to take the hunter's safety course once.


Resident Hunting License $41.50 Required for any resident 16 years of age or older who takes birds or mammals

Nonresident Hunting License $144.65

Decoligny
07-27-2010, 12:26 PM
For those calling FUD, look at post 2 where 'paul0660' provides the link. Post 10 in that link is the backup to the BP's statement.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4682102&postcount=10

BP was correct.

No BP was incorrect when stating that "Only Citizens may handle guns".

If his brother were a legal "IMMIGRANT", and not just a visiting "non-immigrant", then he would legally be able to buy, own, and handle firearms.

Since his brother was only here as a legal "visitor", he could only handle a firearm if he were legally hunting.

StudioDison
07-27-2010, 12:50 PM
one time a Marine friend and I were comming back from Dulzura range and a BP stopped us and asked were we were going, my friend replyed,"your moms house". the BP looked at us funny and told us we could leave.

Munk
07-27-2010, 1:27 PM
one time a Marine friend and I were comming back from Dulzura range and a BP stopped us and asked were we were going, my friend replyed,"your moms house". the BP looked at us funny and told us we could leave.

Because that's a very "American" response. I love that we have the 1st amendment right to say jackass things like that.


As far as the OP is concerned, he and his visiting relative are just fine. He did not "Rent" or "borrow" the firearms from you since they were in your posession the entire time.

If he wanted to use the firearm while NOT in your immediate presence, he'd need a hunting license. After that he may borrow the guns from you to go to the range by himself if he likes.

IANAL, but that's my understanding of the issue, and it pretty much agrees with what others have said.

I've seen busloads of Koreans on vacation go to the range with someone who's a relative of one of the travelers. He pulled out his collection and they all took turns having a great time at the range.... damn I miss the San Gabriel Valley Gun Club.

dantodd
07-27-2010, 2:11 PM
Opportunities like this should not be missed to correct people (specifically LEO) so they know what is allowed. This stops the FUD, in-fact that very LEO will further educate others in the same department!


De you really think that a BP agent is going to listen to legal advice from "random dude" driving the checkpoint? I REALLY REALLY hope the agent doesn't do that.

If you want to do something you file a complaint with a supervisor citing the incorrect information and hope that the supervisor will follow up and find out the actual law and then ensure that the agent gets retrained.

cmaynes
07-27-2010, 2:26 PM
the law says no in most cases.

If you want to try your luck, cool- but always remember that you may beat the charge, but you wont beat the ride.

Decoligny
07-27-2010, 3:16 PM
De you really think that a BP agent is going to listen to legal advice from "random dude" driving the checkpoint? I REALLY REALLY hope the agent doesn't do that.

If you want to do something you file a complaint with a supervisor citing the incorrect information and hope that the supervisor will follow up and find out the actual law and then ensure that the agent gets retrained.

No, but I think if a point is brought up by a "random dude" that any agent worth his salt would take the time to verify whether or not they were wrong. Even if it is after the fact. If it makes on single agent do a little research and learn, then the education process begins.

HellnBack
07-27-2010, 4:29 PM
I am confused here: I read in one of the threads & website of CALGUNS supporter that says anybody who is here in Cali legally can buy a handgun(showing the form I-94 is one of them,visitors are given this),So it appears that visitor cannot handle gun but he is allowed to buy???maybe he is only allowed if he owns it? this is the same in the range that I go to: A 19 YO Iraq Vet is not allowed to rent handgun bec. he is not yet 21,Whoaa? but I am sure he can fire a cannon or tank out there and sure profficient too.
JMTC Bros!!!

OleCuss
07-27-2010, 4:35 PM
Stupid laws.

But I think there is an assumption being made on this thread which may be FUD.

It seems that the consensus is that if a non-immigrant visitor gets a hunting license that they can then handle/possess firearms. I've gotten the impression that this applies if the non-immigrant visa is for sporting or hunting purposes. So if your visa was explicitly for hunting you have to get the hunting license and then you may use firearms at the range or while hunting - and you may transport the firearm to the location of that activity.

So far as I can tell, if you are here on a normal visitor's visa and you get your hunting license it is still a felony for you to have a firearm in your possession.

thayne
07-27-2010, 4:39 PM
What part is FUD?

FUD because you were in possession of your weapons. Just because a visitor is with you doesnt mean you cant transport your weapons.

Mssr. Eleganté
07-27-2010, 7:32 PM
Stupid laws.

But I think there is an assumption being made on this thread which may be FUD.

It seems that the consensus is that if a non-immigrant visitor gets a hunting license that they can then handle/possess firearms. I've gotten the impression that this applies if the non-immigrant visa is for sporting or hunting purposes. So if your visa was explicitly for hunting you have to get the hunting license and then you may use firearms at the range or while hunting - and you may transport the firearm to the location of that activity.

So far as I can tell, if you are here on a normal visitor's visa and you get your hunting license it is still a felony for you to have a firearm in your possession.

This is incorrect. The law does not specify that the non-immigrant alien needs to have a "sporting/hunting" visa in order to qualify for the exemption. Having a hunting license from any of the 50 States means a non-immigrant alien can posses firearms and ammunition in any State.

KylaGWolf
07-27-2010, 7:57 PM
Or you just remain silent and/or tell the BP to pound glass.

Telling them the latter will get your car/vehicle tossed from one end or the other. All they have to say is they had reasonable suspicion that you were carrying something illegal. Why not just smile and say have a nice day and move on instead of trying to tick off the BP agent that gets a lot of grief for just doing their job.

sandman21
07-27-2010, 8:11 PM
Telling them the latter will get your car/vehicle tossed from one end or the other. All they have to say is they had reasonable suspicion that you were carrying something illegal. Why not just smile and say have a nice day and move on instead of trying to tick off the BP agent that gets a lot of grief for just doing their job.

The search is a 4A violation, damn those rights. I also would not be so sure about the car getting tossed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFS7oZtE8Ks

pullnshoot25
07-27-2010, 8:54 PM
Telling them the latter will get your car/vehicle tossed from one end or the other. All they have to say is they had reasonable suspicion that you were carrying something illegal. Why not just smile and say have a nice day and move on instead of trying to tick off the BP agent that gets a lot of grief for just doing their job.

Because my citizenship is none of their damn business. Besides, how many gun-toting Pillsbury Doughboys do you know in Mexico? ;)

Sam went through this with them too. Guess who won? :)

KylaGWolf
07-27-2010, 9:10 PM
Because my citizenship is none of their damn business. Besides, how many gun-toting Pillsbury Doughboys do you know in Mexico? ;)

Sam went through this with them too. Guess who won? :)

Um the US Border Patrol it IS their business if you are here legally or not. And I know quite a few of those agents that do a damn good job in trying to keep the illegals and the drugs out of this country and leave law abiding folks alone.

Dude there are LOTS of gun toting boys from Mexico or don't you watch the news much lately. The freaking illegals are running across the border with freaking guns in AZ what makes you think they are not doing the same in CA.

ZRX61
07-27-2010, 9:10 PM
Resident Hunting License $41.50 Required for any resident 16 years of age or older who takes birds or mammals

So snakes & amphibians etc are SOL? Just blast away at rattlers all day & no licence?

What about vermin that are also mammals?

Kerplow
07-27-2010, 9:18 PM
Um the US Border Patrol it IS their business if you are here legally or not. And I know quite a few of those agents that do a damn good job in trying to keep the illegals and the drugs out of this country and leave law abiding folks alone.

Dude there are LOTS of gun toting boys from Mexico or don't you watch the news much lately. The freaking illegals are running across the border with freaking guns in AZ what makes you think they are not doing the same in CA.

its a bit of a catch 22, isn't it? The fundamental idea of freedom suggests that one need not prove they are legally existing in a public place; however, people in this country illegally are running amok certain aspects of the lives of legal citizens.

KylaGWolf
07-27-2010, 9:20 PM
I don't mind them looking for illegals or even drugs. But then again I don't have any problem with LEOs in general and figure they help keep society safer than it would be without them. Then again I was raised around them and even worked with them for a while. Have some good friends that are in the field right now. Just like any other field you will have your jerk offs but that goes for any field including medical, legal or even your local store clerk. I figure you treat someone with respect you get it back more than likely.

Kerplow
07-27-2010, 9:33 PM
Just like any other field you will have your jerk offs but that goes for any field including medical, legal or even your local store clerk.

ROFL, especially your local store clerk!

dantodd
07-27-2010, 10:53 PM
What about vermin that are also mammals?

Many move to Sacramento, a select few get lucky and make it to Washington D.C.

GuyW
07-27-2010, 11:45 PM
This, however, applies to nonimmigrant aliens. Not sure if that was the case with OP's brother.

Huh? Where did the aliens come from if they're non-immigrants?

.

dantodd
07-27-2010, 11:46 PM
Huh? Where did the aliens come from if they're non-immigrants?

.

If they are here on a tourist visa or student visa or any of a number of others.

GuyW
07-27-2010, 11:50 PM
If they are here on a tourist visa or student visa or any of a number of others.

So are immigrants still aliens? how so?
.

Maton
07-28-2010, 12:21 AM
:sleeping:Um the US Border Patrol it IS their business if you are here legally or not. And I know quite a few of those agents that do a damn good job in trying to keep the illegals and the drugs out of this country and leave law abiding folks alone.

Dude there are LOTS of gun toting boys from Mexico or don't you watch the news much lately. The freaking illegals are running across the border with freaking guns in AZ what makes you think they are not doing the same in CA.

People like you are what make this country great. Sometimes a thankless job when you have to deal with people like that pastor, but when you do get those drugs, guns, illegal felons off the street it makes it all worth it. I agree we have rights, but some people go overboard and make a huge scene, etc. Remember the golden rule....treat others as you would have them treat you...well where was that in the video? Respect earned not given, I do agree there are some over zealous down right rude/cocky people as LEO's, but for the most part we're trying to do the best we can. When you have cartel wars, bounties, countless murders just across the border, that you must deal with on a daily basis...then some jerk off decides to pull up and give you a hard time..:sleeping: Oh yeah...the BP is hiring right now, you wanna join? Instead of B!tching about it, why don't you try to make it better. Personally, and this is my own opinion...I love seeing the NRA stickers, and gun enthusiasts, because I am one myself. I always have a good time speaking to these people...because they are just like me.

dantodd
07-28-2010, 12:27 AM
So are immigrants still aliens? how so?
.

If they are not citizens they are aliens.

Decoligny
07-28-2010, 7:41 AM
Legal Immigrants are aliens who have come to stay with an immigrant visa. They get green cards. They are still aliens until they go through the process of becoming U.S. Citizens.

Legal Non-Immigrants are aliens who have come to visit with a tourist visa or a student visa or a temporary work visa, etc.. They do not get a green card. They stay for a predetermined length of time and then leave.

motorhead
07-28-2010, 8:04 AM
I am confused here: I read in one of the threads & website of CALGUNS supporter that says anybody who is here in Cali legally can buy a handgun(showing the form I-94 is one of them,visitors are given this),So it appears that visitor cannot handle gun but he is allowed to buy???maybe he is only allowed if he owns it? this is the same in the range that I go to: A 19 YO Iraq Vet is not allowed to rent handgun bec. he is not yet 21,Whoaa? but I am sure he can fire a cannon or tank out there and sure profficient too.
JMTC Bros!!!

you read that wrong. only legal RESIDENTS may buy guns. they made the same age argument about the drinking age back during nam, worked for a while in some states until madd and the feds got involved.

Wherryj
07-28-2010, 8:33 AM
You are not require to tell citizenship.

That said, the law the agent stated is essentially unenforceable. Tread carefully though.

Yes, California is one of the "great states" fighting the Arizona law that might allow such a question. I guess that makes the BP's statement a bluff.

pullnshoot25
07-28-2010, 8:34 AM
Because my citizenship is none of their damn business. Besides, how many gun-toting Pillsbury Doughboys do you know in Mexico? ;)

Sam went through

Um the US Border Patrol it IS their business if you are here legally or not. And I know quite a few of those agents that do a damn good job in trying to keep the illegals and the drugs out of this country and leave law abiding folks alone.

Dude there are LOTS of gun toting boys from Mexico or don't you watch the news much lately. The freaking illegals are running across the border with freaking guns in AZ what makes you think they are not doing the same in CA.

Just because it is their job doesn't make it right.

sandman21
07-28-2010, 8:40 AM
:sleeping:

People like you are what make this country great. Sometimes a thankless job when you have to deal with people like that pastor, but when you do get those drugs, guns, illegal felons off the street it makes it all worth it. I agree we have rights, but some people go overboard and make a huge scene, etc. Remember the golden rule....treat others as you would have them treat you...well where was that in the video? Respect earned not given, I do agree there are some over zealous down right rude/cocky people as LEO's, but for the most part we're trying to do the best we can. When you have cartel wars, bounties, countless murders just across the border, that you must deal with on a daily basis...then some jerk off decides to pull up and give you a hard time..:sleeping: Oh yeah...the BP is hiring right now, you wanna join? Instead of B!tching about it, why don't you try to make it better. Personally, and this is my own opinion...I love seeing the NRA stickers, and gun enthusiasts, because I am one myself. I always have a good time speaking to these people...because they are just like me.


Respect is a two way street, the officers should have respected his right to refuse the search and let him continue on his way, since there was no reason to search his vehicle. However, they choose to disrespect that right and any disrespect shown to them after that is there own making. Just because they are looking for something illegal does not wave the rights we have. Would you allow a search of your vehicle, house, or property without cause?

I am always polite and respectful but I am not going to comply with a search without cause, and I would not expect any officer to comply to a search without a cause as well.

ZRX61
07-28-2010, 8:59 AM
Just because it is their job doesn't make it right.

If thats what you think then you have no basis in reality to complain about illegals..

Maestro Pistolero
07-28-2010, 10:22 AM
Everybody knows non-citizens aren't entitled to second amendment rights, it's free health care that they are entitled to. Some of you are confused. :rolleyes:

YubaRiver
07-28-2010, 4:58 PM
If thats what you think then you have no basis in reality to complain about illegals..

Ain't their job if they are not on the border.

sd_shooter
07-28-2010, 5:05 PM
So what is an acceptable way to behave when stopped by the BP at an internal checkpoint? For example the checkpoint on I-8 by Sunrise Highway, between Jacumba and Alpine. There are many others as well when heading back to San Diego.

I usually have my car full of guns and ammo when going through these checkpoints and of course don't want the car to be searched (not that I have anything to hide.)

- Refuse to roll down window?
- Refuse to even talk to the BP?
- Keep this up until they let me leave?

TempleKnight
07-28-2010, 8:27 PM
I recently went shooting on BLM land with my brother and we got stopped at one of the many BP checkpoints when driving back to San Diego. They asked us our citizenship. My brother is not a US citizen but was legally in the country and had a valid passport for ID.

I know the DROS form has an area where one can fill out the Alien registration number when buying a gun, so I'm sure non citizens can handle guns.

But is it ok for a legal non-immigrant?

A non-citizen can get a CCW - see Arnold George Dorsey (aka Engelbert Humperdinck) v. LVMPD )

Not sure what a legal non-immigrant is but an illegal immigrant is probably a gray area. In some areas they are a federally protected species and in others... not so much.

SchooBaka
07-28-2010, 8:39 PM
Thanks for the link - Holy moly!

I guess we'll make sure to have hunting licenses next time, then we'll be out "hunting" instead of plinking. (Good grief...)

Snipe hunting!
They're unregulated, so you don't need tags!

Eastbayguy
07-28-2010, 9:10 PM
If they are not citizens they are aliens.

Resident alien: somebody with a green card
Non resident alien: visitor visa, working visa, educational type visa
Illegal: Crossing border illegally, overstaying I-94 for non resident alien

GuyW
07-28-2010, 9:34 PM
Resident alien: somebody with a green card
Non resident alien: visitor visa, working visa, educational type visa
Illegal: Crossing border illegally, overstaying I-94 for non resident alien

Yeah - this looks like descriptions that I've seen before.....
.

HellnBack
07-29-2010, 11:15 AM
you read that wrong. only legal RESIDENTS may buy guns. they made the same age argument about the drinking age back during nam, worked for a while in some states until madd and the feds got involved.

This is a "Cut & paste" from a CalGun supporter website. Somebody should tell them then.

"US citizenship is NOT required in order to purchase a firearm in the US.

However, any purchaser who is not a U.S. Citizen, is required to show that he or she is legally within the United States by providing the firearms dealer with documentation that contains his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number."

6114DAVE
07-29-2010, 11:24 AM
This is a "Cut & paste" from a CalGun supporter website. Somebody should tell them then.

"US citizenship is NOT required in order to purchase a firearm in the US.

However, any purchaser who is not a U.S. Citizen, is required to show that he or she is legally within the United States by providing the firearms dealer with documentation that contains his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number."

Yeah I've had to do that for all my purchases. Im a resident alien and active duty military. It gets tiresome to hear permanent residents get thrown into the same bucket as the illegals. I'm not entitled to anything ive worked for everything ive owned. in response to maestro pistolero

Ishooter
07-29-2010, 11:04 PM
you read that wrong. only legal RESIDENTS may buy guns...
That's correct. Only Cali legal resident can buy guns, especially handgun.

HellnBack
07-30-2010, 11:55 AM
@ Ishooter, Can you please post your reference on this. The gunstore said,only legal presence in the US is required for him to sell handguns.Please refer to post #70
Appreciate that if you can do it for us.

sandwich
08-02-2010, 10:24 PM
Resident alien: somebody with a green card
Non resident alien: visitor visa, working visa, educational type visa
Illegal: Crossing border illegally, overstaying I-94 for non resident alien

Not quite right: Permanent resident alien is a "green" card holder. You can be a resident alien without being permanent: http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.5af9bb95919f35e66f614176543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=84578fa29935f010VgnVCM1000000ecd190aRCR D&vgnextchannel=b328194d3e88d010VgnVCM10000048f3d6a1 RCRD

Also ATF has lots of details on nonimmigrant/non-resident aliens and gun ownership: http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nonimmigrant-aliens.html

Ishooter
08-02-2010, 10:43 PM
@ Ishooter, Can you please post your reference on this. The gunstore said,only legal presence in the US is required for him to sell handguns.Please refer to post #70
Appreciate that if you can do it for us.
In order to buy handgun in Cali, the buyer must have proof of Cali residency. Here's the link to Cali DOJ: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/chapter4.pdf

And the main link is here: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/. There're other penal codes regarding to sales of long guns, but I can't recall about them.

ponderosa
08-02-2010, 11:01 PM
one time a Marine friend and I were comming back from Dulzura range and a BP stopped us and asked were we were going, my friend replyed,"your moms house". the BP looked at us funny and told us we could leave.

"your moms house" :rofl2: :owned: