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icentropy
07-27-2010, 9:42 AM
Howdy, it seems during my readings and postings on Calguns there seems to be a underlying group of folk like myself for whom firearms are more than just hobby, sport or self-defense(in the normal sense). We pop up now and again with ideas or comments of SHTF (fan-hitting poop) EOTWAWKI (when the starbucks latte isn't just a street corner away anymore), and for the sci-fi minded there's always "WHEN ZOMBIES ATTACK!"....

We like to talk bugout bags, food storage, underground shelters, .22 small game scavenging, and what hill would you run to if you had to run to a hill. From what i've seen these comments are all scattered across all the forum discussions in bits and pieces. If there is a large group that is primarily into firearms for this specific purpose shouldn't it have it's own group? I know there's tons of groups already. What are you're opinions on the matter?

ir0nclash86
07-27-2010, 9:59 AM
It'd be nice to have a little section dedicated to SHTF or EOTWAWKI. Every time someone posts up a SHTF question or end of the world apocolypse scenario tons of people seem to get bothered and say "use the search button." There's a lot of people who like to discuss this and to have a seperate section where they will not be bothered by all the haters would be extremely great. No more face palms. If somebody hates reading SHTF threads or believes the subject has just been beatin to death then for gosh sakes dont click on the link.

XYZ
07-27-2010, 10:02 AM
A lot of this is already discussed in the Outdoor/Survival forum - BOB, GHB, fortified homes, 1 year food supplies, water storage, fuel storage, HAM radios, etc. But I see what you're saying.

ZX-10R
07-27-2010, 10:17 AM
My wife and friends know the plan. Meet in designated area. If not reachable we will come to get you within a certain amount of time. Have guns and ammo. Gas is always rotated. Bring food that is non perishable...Don't forget my dog.

Too many people and it is a cluster...Too few and you leave yourself open to criminals.

Look for a USA flag waving person...Me.

shooting4life
07-27-2010, 10:20 AM
I though the ot forum was made for these types of posts.

bombadillo
07-27-2010, 10:22 AM
I only vote yes so we can keep them contained!

rjf
07-27-2010, 10:46 AM
Yes, It's gonna happen anyway. Keep it contained.

icentropy
07-27-2010, 12:53 PM
It'd be nice to have a little section dedicated to SHTF or EOTWAWKI. Every time someone posts up a SHTF question or end of the world apocolypse scenario tons of people seem to get bothered and say "use the search button." There's a lot of people who like to discuss this and to have a seperate section where they will not be bothered by all the haters would be extremely great. No more face palms. If somebody hates reading SHTF threads or believes the subject has just been beatin to death then for gosh sakes dont click on the link.

Exactly! Most of us who are into this stuff could argue/discuss/talk for HOURS about gear, planning etc. most others would be driven crazy, bored to death or start hating. Just seemed like it would be a good place for us crazies to talk and also keep the info that we discuss and compile in one easy to reference place.

CSACANNONEER
07-27-2010, 12:57 PM
What good would a forum do? All the info would be lost when the grid goes down. Besides, I get tired of reading all about the cool toys that everyone thinks are going to save them. Education, training and hands on practicing of survival skills are where it's at.

icentropy
07-27-2010, 1:06 PM
What good would a forum do? All the info would be lost when the grid goes down. Besides, I get tired of reading all about the cool toys that everyone thinks are going to save them. Education, training and hands on practicing of survival skills are where it's at.

I didn't mean usefull info for when it happens I ment for educational pre-event purposes. And id be very interested to hear your opinion on good skills and training that would be usefull and what toys are useless in our SHTF group :D

sevensix2x51
07-27-2010, 1:10 PM
yes, yes, oh sweet baby jesus yes! if only to keep out all the negative nancies that belittle us for having a good time planning for post-nuclear zombie monster a-gogo apocalypse! shtf threads are fun, and if we have our own section, then we would be more likely to have a lighthearted, positive experience.

Retzius
07-27-2010, 1:37 PM
Every other thread would be titled "Buy gold now" lol no thx

CSACANNONEER
07-27-2010, 2:31 PM
I didn't mean usefull info for when it happens I ment for educational pre-event purposes. And id be very interested to hear your opinion on good skills and training that would be usefull and what toys are useless in our SHTF group :D

Don't count on having any useful toys which are not in your pocket or otherwise on you at this very moment. Knowledge would be the key to survival. Water is the first thing. Have you always been able to find water in the desert, woods, mountains, etc? If you can, you can probably find water in an urban settting as well. How about fire? Your supply of matches and lighters will be depleted soon. Can you start a fire without them or any other consumable fire starters? Food would be the next thing on your list. Can you identify eatible plants in your area? Can you get game without a firearm? Do you realize that the supply of game will be depleted in Ca within a few weeks or a month? Everyone will be hunting. What are your long term plans for food? Finally, can you make your own tools and weapons from native materials? If you are proficient at doing so, making tools in an urban setting will be easy. DO you know which plants make the best cordage? Can you tan hides without modern chemicals? Are you profiecent at knapping stone? Pecking stone? Do you know which woods make the best bows? Can you make a bow? If you can do all of that, you might have a chance to survive indefinately. If you don't, those that can will ultimately end up with whatever tacticool survival gear that you leave behind when you parish.

HiPower823
07-27-2010, 2:33 PM
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but if not for any other reason, SHTF and or EOTWAWKI threads should be in a separate catagory just so we can navigate to or away from them. There really are a lot of SHTF threads

Black Majik
07-27-2010, 2:36 PM
I normally vote against creating another subforum due to less less traffic. However in this case I'm all for it, anywhere to stuff all those SHTF threads. We can even call it the garbage dump forum.

icentropy
07-27-2010, 2:46 PM
I normally vote against creating another subforum due to less less traffic. However in this case I'm all for it, anywhere to stuff all those SHTF threads. We can even call it the garbage dump forum.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, but if not for any other reason, SHTF and or EOTWAWKI threads should be in a separate catagory just so we can navigate to or away from them. There really are a lot of SHTF threads

yes, yes, oh sweet baby jesus yes! if only to keep out all the negative nancies that belittle us for having a good time planning for post-nuclear zombie monster a-gogo apocalypse! shtf threads are fun, and if we have our own section, then we would be more likely to have a lighthearted, positive experience.

I think this pretty much sums it up SHTF folk enjoy the planning for the planning's sake. We're not (usually) crazy, but we do have a very different way of looking at picking the right optics, gun selection, caliber selection, ammo storage, etc. I had to fight just to get people's opinion on what a good "all around" rifle would be if i could just have one rifle. Any SHTF fan would understand and give advice accordingly, "regular" folk would just say, "buy two" or something of that nature. For me and my family the planning, storing, and researching/learning is fun and we enjoy getting prepared. We're not nutjobs that quit our work and stand on the street corners with signs, we just like knowing that if something does happen we did what we could to be prepared to protect each other and our child. I didn't expect the anti-SHTF group to support our own thread but that's a nice surprise. Any moderator or someone else know what and if there are any chances for this actually happening? I choose the general topic forum to start this thread but i'm sure we'd get a lot more responses and votes if the guys in the firearms groups heard of it (centerfire, handgun, and rimfire).

Sam
07-27-2010, 2:46 PM
We can even call it the garbage dump forum.

Oh burn!

A subforum would be appropriate in this case.

icentropy
07-27-2010, 3:02 PM
Oh and for all you Second Ammendment crazies out there, all keeping the government in check and all with your citizens should be armed in case our government gets out of hand and goes all Hitler on us, there you go. Same fan, different poop.

BTW, i'm also a 2A crazy...

shrap
07-27-2010, 3:13 PM
I think a subforum would be helpful, but on the other hand there's a big difference between actual situations where a bugout bag is useful (like earthquakes, or a collapse of public infrastructure) and imaginary situations like ebola-infected mutant fast zombies where you have to shoot the infected in the head. The latter gets old fast.

kapache
07-27-2010, 3:20 PM
They should called it IDT-SHTF

frankm
07-27-2010, 6:18 PM
Don't forget the roving bands of spikey-haired mutants and packs of wild dogs that'll be roamin' around after 2012!

icentropy
07-27-2010, 7:03 PM
I think a subforum would be helpful, but on the other hand there's a big difference between actual situations where a bugout bag is useful (like earthquakes, or a collapse of public infrastructure) and imaginary situations like ebola-infected mutant fast zombies where you have to shoot the infected in the head. The latter gets old fast.

Well like any other group, the individual threads should be respected. If one guy starts one about proper ammo storage for stockpiling or the recommended amount of .22LR to stockpile for EOTWAWKI hopefully the zombie folk will respect it as a real question. Besides i think most of the "Zombie" folks don't really think Zombies are in our future. It's just easier to say "Zombie" than "starving, severly dehydrated or just plain looting armed gangs trying to break into your home after a SHTF scenerio where you're trying to protect your family and food/water that you had the forsight to stockpile". Zombie is just a shorter easier way of saying any folk intent on harming you, your family or your possesions.

dunndeal
07-27-2010, 7:04 PM
I'm still a newb but I know calguns.net is NOT a survivalist site, this a site for the preservation/restoration of 2nd Amendment rights and the discussion of firearms related issues. There are, without doubt, many sites devoted to SHTF and EOTWAWKI and how to deal with it.

icentropy
07-27-2010, 7:10 PM
I'm still a newb but I know calguns.net is NOT a survivalist site, this a site for the preservation/restoration of 2nd Amendment rights and the discussion of firearms related issues. There are, without doubt, many sites devoted to SHTF and EOTWAWKI and how to deal with it.

how exactly does Optic choice factor in to 2A right preservation? Or questions about caliber selection, barrel wear, cheap ammo deals...I could go on.

I'm also pretty new but this seems to be a forum for California gunlovers to discuss firearm related topics. preparing for SHTF is usually extremely closely tied to firearms and in reality it's not horribly different than being prepared to defend your home or country when it needs protecting. Just another facet of self and home defense.

4Defense
07-27-2010, 10:54 PM
Here we go again. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

UserM4
07-27-2010, 11:12 PM
I vote that there should be a "Which gun should I buy" subforum. :p

icentropy
07-28-2010, 12:04 AM
after almost 60 votes it's still hovering around 70%. is that good for a create a new group thread? anyone? bueller? bueller? anyone?
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_fr_YY-tTs64/TE_WXnaiG2I/AAAAAAAAAP4/LByPCaZrMcs/s800/ben_stein_080218_main.jpg

BoxesOfLiberty
07-28-2010, 12:19 AM
after almost 60 votes it's still hovering around 70%. is that good for a create a new group thread? anyone? bueller? bueller? anyone?
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_fr_YY-tTs64/TE_WXnaiG2I/AAAAAAAAAP4/LByPCaZrMcs/s800/ben_stein_080218_main.jpg

I don't know about creating one, but the image you posted has me leaning toward intelligently designing one.

11Z50
07-28-2010, 12:27 AM
I have been on Calguns since the beginning, and I tire of the "USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION" folks, since this is after all, a discussion forum. It's like those who have posted in the past have written the holy grail or something.

I say yes...

icentropy
07-28-2010, 12:35 AM
As a side note, if anyone that really wants a new group added for SHTF added a link to this thread/poll to their signature (like I did), people would see it all over the rest of the discussion groups and maybe we could get enough votes to convince the powers that be that it might be a cool idea? I just know that this week was the first time I ever looking into the general discussion group, i always was looking at centerfire and rimfire stuff so only a small percentage of people are actually seeing this thread.
Closet SHTF junkies unite!

CSACANNONEER
07-28-2010, 8:55 AM
after almost 60 votes it's still hovering around 70%. is that good for a create a new group thread? anyone? bueller? bueller? anyone?


You know, if you really want a separate form, you could start your own website? This one is privately owned and it's up to the owners to decide how they want to run their website. Of course, I'm sure that they are open to constructive suggestions but, don't get upset if they don't do what you want. Remember that we all all guests here. Also, is 60 votes really a large enough sample to indicate what the over 50,000 Calguns members want?

BTW, I have not voted either way. I really don't care one way or another since, I just use the "new posts" button and don't pay attention to individual forums and sub forums anyway.

icentropy
07-28-2010, 9:10 AM
You know, if you really want a separate form, you could start your own website? This one is privately owned and it's up to the owners to decide how they want to run their website. Of course, I'm sure that they are open to constructive suggestions but, don't get upset if they don't do what you want. Remember that we all all guests here. Also, is 60 votes really a large enough sample to indicate what the over 50,000 Calguns members want?

No, it's really not a big deal and in no way would i be upset if the powers that be decided not to make a seperate group. As you said it's their forum and I am happy to be allowed on here and that we have people willing to run and moderate these forums so we can talk and help each other out. It's just a thought that I had after reading a lot of posts and figured I'd see how other people felt about it. What i was wondering is if it's even possible. I mean if new groups are not made then there's no point for this thread at all. If they are occasionally, i thought it'd be cool to have a SHTF group. Either way Calguns rules! I thought it'd be more of a percentage thing. If 70% of the people that vote, voted yes it seems to me that the majority of the people that have an opionion on it would like it. But I don't see a few guys asking for a new group as trying to "strong arm" the founders to make a change, just food for thought. If someone said "no, this group won't be made." then I'd just happily leave the thread alone. No biggie either way.

CSACANNONEER
07-28-2010, 9:14 AM
Cool!

Joser23
07-28-2010, 9:15 AM
i vote yes, i need some more info for when the zombies come!! :)

Californio
07-28-2010, 9:40 AM
No, why because the main thrust of CalGuns is to promote the repeal of California Gun Laws that infringe on our Rights. Public perception of Survivalists is a paranoia driven group.

As a pre-Statehood Californian whose family has survived numerous Earthquakes I support all actives that promote common sense Natural Disaster Preparedness but end of the world video game fantasies really don't paint gun owners in a mature light. Plenty of Forum Boards for people who want to play that game.

Camping, wilderness survival, natural disaster preparation - Yes.

End of the World - NO.

icentropy
07-28-2010, 10:08 AM
No, why because the main thrust of CalGuns is to promote the repeal of California Gun Laws that infringe on our Rights. Public perception of Survivalists is a paranoia driven group.

Camping, wilderness survival, natural disaster preparation - Yes.
End of the World - NO.

I can understand that, however i think the lines between SHTF and natural disaster preparation are very blurry. Also in a major natural disaster, a lot of infrastructure would be gone and even for a little while it could get SHTFish. Heck the LA riots a while back seemed like attack of the killer zombies to me.

Californio
07-28-2010, 10:16 AM
I can understand that, however i think the lines between SHTF and natural disaster preparation are very blurry. Also in a major natural disaster, a lot of infrastructure would be gone and even for a little while it could get SHTFish. Heck the LA riots a while back seemed like attack of the killer zombies to me.

Here is a forum for you,

http://californiapreparedness.net/

Some of the members are members of CalGuns.

evidens83
07-28-2010, 10:35 AM
Isn't that what the Outdoor/Survival subforum is for??

Nachoman
07-28-2010, 10:44 AM
I can understand that, however i think the lines between SHTF and natural disaster preparation are very blurry. Also in a major natural disaster, a lot of infrastructure would be gone and even for a little while it could get SHTFish. Heck the LA riots a while back seemed like attack of the killer zombies to me.

Also there's a lot of different ideas of what SHTF entails. Some folks think it's the end of civilized society as we know it. Some think it's a week of civil unrest. It's a pretty big difference planning for one or the other. Personally, I think anytime someone asks a SHTF question, they should preface it with what type of situation they are imagining.

DaveFJ80
07-28-2010, 11:31 AM
It would be nice to have a forum dedicated to this type of situation, but there would also be a lot of redundancy on that forum and others with similar threads and topics brought up. Unless you did a global search to find the info that you want, you could be creating a similar topic in another forum when one was just recently created elsewhere (which I often see on CGN).

chaseface
07-28-2010, 12:06 PM
No, why because the main thrust of CalGuns is to promote the repeal of California Gun Laws that infringe on our Rights. Public perception of Survivalists is a paranoia driven group.

As a pre-Statehood Californian whose family has survived numerous Earthquakes I support all actives that promote common sense Natural Disaster Preparedness but end of the world video game fantasies really don't paint gun owners in a mature light. Plenty of Forum Boards for people who want to play that game.

Camping, wilderness survival, natural disaster preparation - Yes.

End of the World - NO.

I think SHTF preparedness is exactly the same thing as a natural disaster preparedness. Think Katrina, think a huge earthquake that knocks out the power grid for months, or a massive gasoline shortage. Sure you wouldn't run around killing people but you would need the tools to protect yourself

Or instead of zombies think riots, or China or Russia invading. The term zombies can easily be switched with invaders. I think some of these things are less likely to happen than others but in our lifetime any one of these things taking place could happen. Preparing for one is preparing for all. SHTF to me means bad things going down, it doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world. Im all for the new section.

icentropy
07-30-2010, 10:02 AM
I think SHTF preparedness is exactly the same thing as a natural disaster preparedness. Think Katrina, think a huge earthquake that knocks out the power grid for months, or a massive gasoline shortage. Sure you wouldn't run around killing people but you would need the tools to protect yourself

Or instead of zombies think riots, or China or Russia invading. The term zombies can easily be switched with invaders. I think some of these things are less likely to happen than others but in our lifetime any one of these things taking place could happen. Preparing for one is preparing for all. SHTF to me means bad things going down, it doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world. Im all for the new section.

+1 what he said

sholling
07-30-2010, 11:10 AM
I think it's a good idea but I doubt that it will happen for 2 reasons:

Political correctness enforcers tend to feel that "tinfoil hat" posts reflect badly on gun owners. I disagree simply because riots happen, and the state and federal government are bankrupt and terrorists are known to be working on WMDs. The combination could leave people on their own for a few weeks to several months.

The same post-nazis that thread-crap all over every SHTF thread that they come across would make thread crapping the SHTF forum a full time hobby. These members cannot and will not let people discuss any subject that they personally disapprove of. Thus the term post-nazis.

sholling
07-30-2010, 11:23 AM
I think SHTF preparedness is exactly the same thing as a natural disaster preparedness. Think Katrina, think a huge earthquake that knocks out the power grid for months, or a massive gasoline shortage. Sure you wouldn't run around killing people but you would need the tools to protect yourself
Those are politically incorrect thoughts.

Or instead of zombies think riots, or China or Russia invading. The term zombies can easily be switched with invaders. I think some of these things are less likely to happen than others but in our lifetime any one of these things taking place could happen. Preparing for one is preparing for all. SHTF to me means bad things going down, it doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world. Im all for the new section.
Actually people on boards used to discuss civil unrest (riots), social collapse due to natural or man made disaster, and armed evil blue helmets appearing on our streets. But those discussions were deemed "blood thirsty racist paranoid survivalist fantasies" by the political correctness enforcers of the gun world and banned by lots of boards. So the term "zombie" was adopted as a PC substitute for "armed bad guys in blue helmets rioting in the streets".

Barabas
07-30-2010, 12:49 PM
Ok, bear with me for a second. What do we all want to do during a SHTF or EOTWAWKI scenario?

Survive, right?

There's a forum for this already. Seriously, there is.

The Outdoors, Camping and SURVIVAL (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=76) forum.

icentropy
07-30-2010, 1:35 PM
There's a forum for this already. Seriously, there is. The Outdoors, Camping and SURVIVAL (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=76) forum.

You have a point. Maybe it should be renamed more appropriately? Is it used much for Outdoor/camping? There's a hunting/section right under it. Could it be converted to a SHTF/EOTWAWKI group so that all the SHTF folk know to go there for their discussions?

Barabas
07-30-2010, 2:01 PM
A lot of those skills cross over given that most people do not have a bunker stocked with 20 years of perishables to survive the zombocalypse and plan to take their sks an' go inna woods. This isn't a survival site, so having a sub-forum that even mentions it should be welcomed and used instead of having thread after thread in every other sub-forum.

I know reading comprehension and curiosity aren't valued anymore, but how much more clear does it have to get for people to know where to post a particular topic? It's on the index page of the forum for crying out loud.

rg_1111@yahoo.com
07-30-2010, 2:43 PM
Why not. Just another topic to talk about. Every one of these threads there is something new and useful.

Wicked Pete
07-30-2010, 2:55 PM
I too think the topic is valid. The only thing to remember: "this is a private site, we are guests here." Does the owner (& mods) listen to requests for changes?

Barabas
07-30-2010, 3:07 PM
So the term "zombie" was adopted as a PC substitute for "armed bad guys in blue helmets rioting in the streets".

I thought it was MZB's (mutant zombie bikers) first, since no civilized person could defend their existence, then those of us who were raised on zombie fiction promulgated the preferred scenario of Romero zombies as the favored survival scenario du jour. The idea being that if you could survive zombies, you could survive anything. Thanks to the internet it has spread far and wide and taken on many different levels of meaning well beyond what was originally intended or implied.

To paraphrase Freud: "Sometimes a zombie is just a zombie."

XYZ
07-30-2010, 3:13 PM
Is it used much for Outdoor/camping?

Yes. The Outdoor/Camping/Survival forum is a combination of all three which are very much related.


Does the owner (& mods) listen to requests for changes?

Yes they do. In this forum (announcements and suggestions):

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=64

When I first spent time on Calguns I mainly stayed in the marketplace forum looking for firearms and such. I eventually expanded to the other forums and now I go from sub forum to sub forum as do many others.

There are a lot of SHTF/TEOTWAWKI discussions in the Outdoor forum. I'm not sure there's a need for a separate SHTF forum as it already exists. Just my two cents.

ETA: Current discussions in the Outdoor Forum:

Grid just went down, what do you do

Going out of Business Disaster website - great deals to be had

The Colony on Discovery channel (reality show based on SHTF)

sholling
07-30-2010, 5:26 PM
I thought it was MZB's (mutant zombie bikers) first, since no civilized person could defend their existence, then those of us who were raised on zombie fiction promulgated the preferred scenario of Romero zombies as the favored survival scenario du jour. The idea being that if you could survive zombies, you could survive anything. Thanks to the internet it has spread far and wide and taken on many different levels of meaning well beyond what was originally intended or implied.

To paraphrase Freud: "Sometimes a zombie is just a zombie."

There were also the dreaded blue helmeted martian zombies but little green men complained that it it was racial slur. ;)

Barabas
07-30-2010, 5:34 PM
Oh, don't get me started on those Martians. I'm gonna take the fight to them one of these days. There's no prohibition on interplanetary transportation of AWs and no GFSZ's on the way, so it ought to be a fun trip.

Wicked Pete
07-30-2010, 7:57 PM
There were also the dreaded blue helmeted martian zombies but little green men complained that it it was racial slur. ;)

Hey wait a minute..I never signed on for "martian zombies". ;-/

icentropy
08-08-2010, 7:32 AM
Hey wait a minute..I never signed on for "martian zombies". ;-/

Yeah, I'd hope if this ever happened, it would be a serious group (well a sense of humor never hurts) but you know, people seriously talking about firearms and their application in SHTF scenarios like: if you had to Bug out and could only carry one firearm which would it be? properly storing ammo off site, BOBs that also allow the carrying of a long arm, new ideas on collapsable rifles like windrunner, or stockpiling reloading components, the appropriate amount of ammo to store for that eventual possible EOTWAWKI day. I just don't see how it's any more "off topic" than hunting or FISHING for goodness sakes. I just figure, this is a firearm forum and many people purchase and practice with firearms at least partially in preperation for a SHTF or EOTWAWKI day.