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View Full Version : WTF, Is it really that hard to reduce mag capacity to 10??


NapaCountyShooter
07-25-2010, 5:21 PM
Now I'll admit, I've never made 10/30's before, but I went to the gun show today and picked up two 10/20's and a 10/30 for my AR because it just doesn't look right with the 10 rounder I have now. I got them home and checked them for the phantom 11th round and of the three, only one of the 10/20's stopped at 10 rounds. I live an hour away from Vallejo and I had a tee time to catch so I wasn't going back, so I drilled out the rivets and disassembled the offending mags until I can get some blocks or rods and epoxy to do them properly. I know the vendors are rushing to make a ton of mags for the gun show, but damn it, they could get people in serious trouble out there. It's irresponsible. Just a friendly reminder to all of you to check your 10/whatevers before you take them out. I don't want anyone to get in trouble. Rant off.
Take care.

Sam
07-25-2010, 7:01 PM
How would you get in trouble?

NapaCountyShooter
07-25-2010, 7:27 PM
How would you get in trouble?

Shooting a BB equipted AR with a magazine with a greater than 10 round capacity.

BenjaminCA
07-25-2010, 7:31 PM
Putting a mag into a BB equipped AR that can hold more than 10 rounds will get you in trouble. I could be wrong.

audiophil2
07-25-2010, 7:33 PM
Go featureless and bump your legally purchased hi-cap mags back to 30 rounders.

Sam
07-25-2010, 7:34 PM
Ahh sorry...I didn't think that far.

NapaCountyShooter
07-25-2010, 7:35 PM
Go featureless and bump your legally purchased hi-cap mags back to 30 rounders.

Been seriously considering it. I do love my stock ergonomics though.

Sam
07-25-2010, 7:35 PM
On the bright side you now have standard capacity magazines you can use in a featureless build.

CSACANNONEER
07-25-2010, 7:36 PM
Did you see if they would function with 11 rounds in them? It's possible that they might not even snap into place because the 11th bullet hits the bottom of the bolt carrier.

NapaCountyShooter
07-25-2010, 7:40 PM
Did you see if they would function with 11 rounds in them? It's possible that they might not even snap into place because the 11th bullet hits the bottom of the bolt carrier.

Does that matter legally?

Target Plinker
07-25-2010, 7:40 PM
any weapon (AK/AR) needing a BB, and having a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds = Felony
Magazines in California with capacity of +10 rounds = Felony

Buddy of mine was charged with 3 Felony counts of Manufacturing by the ATF and DOJ for having (3) 30 round Pmags that he bought in Reno and brought into California even though he had the parts with him to convert then to 10 rounders.
It was just dropped recently to a Misdemeanor. He got lucky!!

Be careful with making your own Cali Legal Mags!!

CSACANNONEER
07-25-2010, 7:43 PM
Does that matter legally?

It could be argued that the maximum capacity of the mag is ten since it won't function with any more in it. But, I'm not a lawyer.

NapaCountyShooter
07-25-2010, 7:45 PM
It could be argued that the maximum capacity of the mag is ten since it won't function with any more in it. But, I'm not a lawyer.

Yeah, I'd like to stay away from the grey area as much as possible. I'll just keep them disassembled until I can make them into legal 10/20s and 30's.

Gallows
07-25-2010, 8:07 PM
I plan on purchasing some 10/20s but I had a concern an 11th round might be able to squeak by. Might just get a 10 round mag and just put a vertical grip close to the mag well.

Retzius
07-25-2010, 8:13 PM
Chill out buddy.

Seriously, have you ever been stopped by the "11th round" police. Be a responsible citizen and you have nothing to worry about.

NapaCountyShooter
07-25-2010, 8:21 PM
Chill out buddy.

Seriously, have you ever been stopped by the "11th round" police. Be a responsible citizen and you have nothing to worry about.

Yeahhhh, I'm not a big fan of rolling around with felonies. I probably would never get messed with about them but I'm not going to throw away my current life for a bullet.

sevensix2x51
07-25-2010, 8:51 PM
yeah.. i use 30-40rd magazines in most of my rifles, since ive had them for years, and i configure the rifles to legally accept them. i am within the law at all times.

safewaysecurity
07-25-2010, 9:00 PM
**** so I should go featureless just in case I ever happen to find a 10+ mag on the ground or something. Like how the law encourages quick reload with high cap mags but not high cap mags with a weapon that requires a tool in order to reload. Bureaucratic GENIUS!

Redlinegts
07-25-2010, 9:13 PM
I've never had a problem with any of the ones I bought from Riflegear. I would've returned it and told them to get you a new one.

sevensix2x51
07-25-2010, 9:18 PM
**** so I should go featureless just in case I ever happen to find a 10+ mag on the ground or something. Like how the law encourages quick reload with high cap mags but not high cap mags with a weapon that requires a tool in order to reload. Bureaucratic GENIUS!

you should go featureless anyways, so you dont need to fumble around with some damn gypsy trinket to get your magazine swapped out... its worth it even for 5/10rd magazines.

SJgunguy24
07-25-2010, 9:19 PM
What kind of mags? There is some variance between brands, that makes it tough sometimes. Even if the same label mag could be just off enough so your standard block might let #11 squeeze in.

If you need to make 10 round mags, make your own, so you know your stuff is squared up and 100% legal.

NapaCountyShooter
07-25-2010, 9:26 PM
What kind of mags? There is some variance between brands, that makes it tough sometimes. Even if the same label mag could be just off enough so your standard block might let #11 squeeze in.

If you need to make 10 round mags, make your own, so you know your stuff is squared up and 100% legal.

The 10/20's were c products and the 10/30 was a pmag. You're right. Lesson learned. I'll be doing my own from now on.

BigDogatPlay
07-25-2010, 11:20 PM
On the bright side you now have standard capacity magazines you can use in a featureless build.

Other than the fact that if he reassembles them in a high cap configuration he is committing a felony.

:)

Lead-Thrower
07-25-2010, 11:22 PM
The 10/30's I bought only hold 9. Oh well, will just have to buy more... :43:

JDay
07-26-2010, 2:07 AM
Now I'll admit, I've never made 10/30's before, but I went to the gun show today and picked up two 10/20's and a 10/30 for my AR because it just doesn't look right with the 10 rounder I have now. I got them home and checked them for the phantom 11th round and of the three, only one of the 10/20's stopped at 10 rounds. I live an hour away from Vallejo and I had a tee time to catch so I wasn't going back, so I drilled out the rivets and disassembled the offending mags until I can get some blocks or rods and epoxy to do them properly. I know the vendors are rushing to make a ton of mags for the gun show, but damn it, they could get people in serious trouble out there. It's irresponsible. Just a friendly reminder to all of you to check your 10/whatevers before you take them out. I don't want anyone to get in trouble. Rant off.
Take care.

It is not illegal to buy or possess magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, only to make, sell, lend, give and import. You can legally turn those into 20 or 30 rounders.

JDay
07-26-2010, 2:13 AM
Other than the fact that if he reassembles them in a high cap configuration he is committing a felony.

:)

No he's not, he legally owns those high-capacity magazines since they already held more then 10 rounds when he bought them. The only one committing the crime is the business that sold them.

AIMSMALL
07-26-2010, 2:16 AM
Other than the fact that if he reassembles them in a high cap configuration he is committing a felony.

:)

Wrong, see post #29 please for correct info.

Scratch705
07-26-2010, 2:18 AM
any weapon (AK/AR) needing a BB, and having a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds = Felony
Magazines in California with capacity of +10 rounds = Felony

Buddy of mine was charged with 3 Felony counts of Manufacturing by the ATF and DOJ for having (3) 30 round Pmags that he bought in Reno and brought into California even though he had the parts with him to convert then to 10 rounders.
It was just dropped recently to a Misdemeanor. He got lucky!!

Be careful with making your own Cali Legal Mags!!

if this story is at all true in every single word.... your buddy has the worst lawyer ever and does not know how to use the 5th amendment. and was stupid enough to be baited by ATF/DOJ during interrogation to say what they needed him to say to make their case against him.

AIMSMALL
07-26-2010, 2:19 AM
Why do people who don't know the laws insist on spreading FUD and how do those people end up working at the gun shops?? It just seems endless, the fud I mean....to the OP, you actually lucked out on this deal if you ask me!

JDay
07-26-2010, 2:23 AM
if this story is at all true in every single word.... your buddy has the worst lawyer ever and does not know how to use the 5th amendment. and was stupid enough to be baited by ATF/DOJ during interrogation to say what they needed him to say to make their case against him.

The only words you should say during questioning.

Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? I want to speak to an attorney.

patriot_man
07-26-2010, 3:28 AM
I guess people are just trying to make a quick couple bucks without putting too much effort into it... sounds familiar.

http://www.siue.edu/lovejoylibrary/archives/50/img/p3_0011_Layer_8.jpg

Corbin Dallas
07-26-2010, 6:49 AM
any weapon (AK/AR) needing a BB, and having a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds = Felony
Magazines in California with capacity of +10 rounds = Felony

Buddy of mine was charged with 3 Felony counts of Manufacturing by the ATF and DOJ for having (3) 30 round Pmags that he bought in Reno and brought into California even though he had the parts with him to convert then to 10 rounders.
It was just dropped recently to a Misdemeanor. He got lucky!!

Be careful with making your own Cali Legal Mags!!


The general statement:

Magazines in California with capacity of +10 rounds = Felony

Is incorrect.

However, I can tell you how your buddy ended up on the wrong end of the court.

It would not take much for a smart DA to convince the Judge that the Magpul branded "PMAG" magazines were NEVER manufactured before 2000.

Now either (a) Your buddy opened his big fat mouth and said "I'm going to convert them" or some junk like that... or (b) His lawyer was a PD and did not understand the laws regarding replacement magazine parts.

Sounds to me like there is something missing from the story (ie - Your buddy bought assembled mags and the ATF/DOJ was watching for CA plates in Reno, or your buddy did not covert them before he left NV and got stopped on the way home by local PD)

Sniper3142
07-26-2010, 7:48 AM
any weapon (AK/AR) needing a BB, and having a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds = Felony
Magazines in California with capacity of +10 rounds = Felony



The bolded part of your post is WRONG!!

10+ magazines are LEGAL to own and use in California.

And I've converted several of my 30 rounders over to Magpul PMag bodies, followers, springs, and floorplates, which is also Legal!

Learn the LAW instead of posting FUD or incorrect info!!

Decoligny
07-26-2010, 8:42 AM
any weapon (AK/AR) needing a BB, and having a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds = Felony
Magazines in California with capacity of +10 rounds = Felony
Buddy of mine was charged with 3 Felony counts of Manufacturing by the ATF and DOJ for having (3) 30 round Pmags that he bought in Reno and brought into California even though he had the parts with him to convert then to 10 rounders.
It was just dropped recently to a Misdemeanor. He got lucky!!

Be careful with making your own Cali Legal Mags!!

FUD

There are several different ways to legally possess a +10 round magazine in California.

1. You possessed the + 10 magazine for any amount of time in California prior to 1 Jan 2000.
2. You imported/manufactured the +10 magazine more than 3 years ago - statute of limitations has run out.
3. You found a discarded working +10 magazine and took legal possession of it.
4. You found a discarded broken +10 magazine and took legal possession of it and repaired it.

That's just of the top of my head.

Your friend did something stupid, or at least forgot to do something, which was stupid. If he had purchased those same 30 round magazines in Reno, and disassembled them before coming into California, he would not have broken the law at all. He would only have been importing magazine parts.

RideTimeless
07-26-2010, 9:36 AM
Stupid, dumb, retarded but where's the part of using +10 on a public range?? I guess my ar hangs out with +10'ers, but its best friends are 10 rounders...being in cal.
Agreed, 10 rnd mag just does not look right in an ar (damn hollywood).

Dieseldog
07-26-2010, 9:46 AM
Since when did the ATF get involved with enforcing CA magazine laws?

mif_slim
07-26-2010, 9:53 AM
Been seriously considering it. I do love my stock ergonomics though.

Just last week me and my cusin had a two mag dump at a target...mines was featureless his was bb...I was done by the time he was on his 3rd-4th round of the second mag...after he finished his mag.. he looked at me and said, "dont rub it in..."

lol.

l_Z_l
07-26-2010, 10:20 AM
dude u just bought high cap mags totally legal. just don't put the on ur BB AR and ur good to go unless that's ur only AR then yea i might've been a lil worked up.

Sniper3142
07-26-2010, 12:09 PM
Stupid, dumb, retarded but where's the part of using +10 on a public range?? I guess my ar hangs out with +10'ers, but its best friends are 10 rounders...being in cal.
Agreed, 10 rnd mag just does not look right in an ar (damn hollywood).

I only use 20 and 30 round magazines in my AR type rifles. That includes private and public ranges. The reasons why are simple:
- They are mine
- They are legal
- They are what the rifles were designed to work with

And I didn't learn anything I know about firearms from Hollywood. Uncle Sugar gets the blame credit for that.

;)

Rekrab
07-26-2010, 12:19 PM
It would not take much for a smart DA to convince the Judge that the Magpul branded "PMAG" magazines were NEVER manufactured before 2000.

Date of manufacture is irrelevant. If I were at the gun range and someone had left behind some high capacity magazines made or designed for a gun made after 200, I could walk away with them the only crime I would be guilty of is theft.

If you read the PC carefully (not the DOJ FAQ) you will see there is no law against finding or even purchasing these magazines. It is illegal to manufacture, give, offer for sale, keep for sale, import, or lend while not present high capacity magazines.

Sniper3142
07-26-2010, 12:35 PM
Date of manufacture is irrelevant. If I were at the gun range and someone had left behind some high capacity magazines made or designed for a gun made after 200, I could walk away with them the only crime I would be guilty of is theft.

If you read the PC carefully (not the DOJ FAQ) you will see there is no law against finding or even purchasing these magazines. It is illegal to manufacture, give, offer for sale, keep for sale, import, or lend while not present high capacity magazines.


Yup!!

And it is legal to replace any or all parts of an existing magazine. And you are not limited to pre-2000 parts or manufacturers. So there are lots of folks who rebuild their existing 20 and 30 round metal mags with all Magpul PMag parts.

:)

And yes... it is a very stupid law.

evidens83
07-26-2010, 1:40 PM
any weapon (AK/AR) needing a BB, and having a magazine capacity of more than 10 rounds = Felony
Magazines in California with capacity of +10 rounds = Felony

Buddy of mine was charged with 3 Felony counts of Manufacturing by the ATF and DOJ for having (3) 30 round Pmags that he bought in Reno and brought into California even though he had the parts with him to convert then to 10 rounders.
It was just dropped recently to a Misdemeanor. He got lucky!!
Be careful with making your own Cali Legal Mags!!

No disrespect but I call :icon_bs: Either that or your "friend's" lawyer is an idiot..

Corbin Dallas
07-26-2010, 1:53 PM
Date of manufacture is irrelevant. If I were at the gun range and someone had left behind some high capacity magazines made or designed for a gun made after 200, I could walk away with them the only crime I would be guilty of is theft.

If you read the PC carefully (not the DOJ FAQ) you will see there is no law against finding or even purchasing these magazines. It is illegal to manufacture, give, offer for sale, keep for sale, import, or lend while not present high capacity magazines.

Don't HALF quote me. That was NOT the END ALL of my post.


I know the law and had you bothered to READ and QUOTE my ENTIRE post instead of what you want me to look bad for posting, you would notice I ALSO SAID...



(b) His lawyer was a PD and did not understand the laws regarding replacement magazine parts.




Just like the media everyone complains about, you chose to only repeat what you wanted in order to make me look like an idiot...

Thanks for playing, next time READ the whole thing...

Rekrab
07-26-2010, 2:12 PM
Don't HALF quote me. That was NOT the END ALL of my post.


I know the law and had you bothered to READ and QUOTE my ENTIRE post instead of what you want me to look bad for posting, you would notice I ALSO SAID...


I read your whole post, no insult was intended. No need to read things that weren't written.

Corbin Dallas
07-26-2010, 4:05 PM
I read your whole post, no insult was intended. No need to read things that weren't written.

Seriously? Do I need to paint you a picture? Maybe you need some help coloring within the lines? Should I tie string from point to point so you can get it?

You say "No insult was intended" yet you clearly FAILED to quote what I said.

1) How is that not insulting when you say (and I'll quote you again)

If you read the PC carefully (not the DOJ FAQ) you will see there is no law against finding or even purchasing these magazines. It is illegal to manufacture, give, offer for sale, keep for sale, import, or lend while not present high capacity magazines.

No kidding? Really? So why is it that I said...

(b) His lawyer was a PD and did not understand the laws regarding replacement magazine parts.

Stand up and be a man. Stand here and say to the crowd:

OOPS, I must have missed that part where you understood the laws and mentioned that the OP's buddy who was charged with a crime was not properly represented by legal counsel OR otherwise...

Instead of defending your action that my post was completely incorrect and clearly I did not read the laws completely


Like I said before, your post is akin to the news media, only quoting what you think is the important part of the information to get your point across...

Rekrab
07-26-2010, 4:56 PM
Corbin, I wrote that for the edification of all in the thread. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Target Plinker
07-26-2010, 10:18 PM
Magazines in California with capacity of +10 rounds != Felony
Magazines with more than 11 rounds are legal to posses. How did your friend get convicted? It's almost impossible to prove manufacturing or importing unless you talk yourself into it.



That's some pretty bad advice. Don't ever put 11+ round mags in a BB equipped AR.

He was convicted because like I said above, He had the parts to convert then to 10 round magazines with him. Kinda the same thing as if you had a pipe, its considered paraphernalia by law enforcement.

Target Plinker
07-26-2010, 10:20 PM
Were the three mags in question assembled in a 30 round capacity? or were they in un-assembled state , what specifically was the misdemeanor for?

He had them assembled when he crossed the state line, Stupid mistake!!

Target Plinker
07-26-2010, 10:26 PM
if this story is at all true in every single word.... your buddy has the worst lawyer ever and does not know how to use the 5th amendment. and was stupid enough to be baited by ATF/DOJ during interrogation to say what they needed him to say to make their case against him.
The part I left out is that they followed him from the Reno Gun Show and watched him while he was shooting in Nevada using the newly bought 30 round Pmags in a BB equipped rifle. Waited till he crossed into California and then pulled him over. He had a good lawyer and has a really good friend that is a DA, Also family in Law Enforcement. I would say that if you are charged with 3 Felonies and get it dropped down to 1 Misdemeanor and don't lose all rights to weapons forever, I think he came out pretty good. Just my opinion though.
Any actual Lawyers have any input on this situation or to the 10 round Magazine laws?

Sam
07-26-2010, 10:38 PM
The part I left out is that they followed him from the Reno Gun Show and watched him while he was shooting in Nevada using the newly bought 30 round Pmags in a BB equipped rifle. Waited till he crossed into California and then pulled him over. He had a good lawyer and has a really good friend that is a DA, Also family in Law Enforcement. I would say that if you are charged with 3 Felonies and get it dropped down to 1 Misdemeanor and don't lose all rights to weapons forever, I think he came out pretty good. Just my opinion though.
Any actual Lawyers have any input on this situation or to the 10 round Magazine laws?

You really threw me off. If he did this, then he would have been charged with importing magazines, not manufacturing them. Additionally, what of importance is the fact that he had parts to 10 round magazines with him? You seem pretty adament that is why he got busted. If you're going to tell the story, tell everything and be careful how it's worded. The CA gun laws are hard enough to understand, don't make it more complicated by being sloppy.

Edit: Why is the ATF enforcing CA laws?

l_Z_l
07-26-2010, 11:25 PM
ATF was prolly called in since the arresting officer wasn't clear on the implication of the crime. thought maybe the ATF would know what the deal was. isn't the ATF called in when it crosses borders?

clearly both agents weren't that clear on the law or never really bother to read it all the way through.

Scratch705
07-27-2010, 2:06 AM
The part I left out is that they followed him from the Reno Gun Show and watched him while he was shooting in Nevada using the newly bought 30 round Pmags in a BB equipped rifle. Waited till he crossed into California and then pulled him over. He had a good lawyer and has a really good friend that is a DA, Also family in Law Enforcement. I would say that if you are charged with 3 Felonies and get it dropped down to 1 Misdemeanor and don't lose all rights to weapons forever, I think he came out pretty good. Just my opinion though.
Any actual Lawyers have any input on this situation or to the 10 round Magazine laws?

that is not illegal in nevada. only is it illegal in ca to use a "hi-cap" in a BB equipped rifle. in nevada, they will just laugh at you.

the only thing they could have charged him with is importation, and that in it of itself is a misdemeanor. sure it can be charged as a felony, but since he had his great lawyer, i am sure the DA knew it wouldn't of passed as a felony. and since there is no federal laws about moving "hi-caps" across state lines (that i know of, they refer to state laws) this was entirely a CA legal issue.

legally, i can purchase "hi-caps" in nevada, use them there, keep them there, or drive it over to Utah and use it there, or drive it over to Arizona and use it there. as long as i don't bring them back into CA in assembled form. but practically, it wouldn't be possible since no gun store would sell it to me after seeing my CA ID.

or on the same token, NV folks can't bring in their full auto/suppressed stuff to CA since it is a restricted item here, but fully legal in NV and various other states (after tax stamps of course).

BigDogatPlay
07-27-2010, 5:27 AM
but practically, it wouldn't be possible since no gun store would sell it to me after seeing my CA ID.

Gun stores in Nevada are requiring ID for a cash transaction on a non-firearm part?

To repeat something I posted farther up the thread since it came up again... while the law says it is not illegal to purchase, it is illegal to sell to a person not exempted. So the purchase is de facto barred by the operation of the law, there just is no criminal sanction applied to a purchase. The end result is that a non-exempt person still can not buy a large cap magazine in California.

CHS
07-27-2010, 11:37 AM
People need to stop being so obsessed with looks.

10rd's, $11.99:
http://www.riflegear.com/p-203-c-products-10-round-magazine-223556mm.aspx

Done.

Ricky-Ray
07-27-2010, 11:42 AM
Go featureless and bump your legally purchased hi-cap mags back to 30 rounders.

New to AR's but what do you mean by featureless?

jonni
07-27-2010, 11:42 AM
People need to stop being so obsessed with looks.

10rd's, $11.99:
http://www.riflegear.com/p-203-c-products-10-round-magazine-223556mm.aspx

Done.

and who are you to tell people what they need or dont need?

CHS
07-27-2010, 12:40 PM
and who are you to tell people what they need or dont need?

If you're going to complain so much about blocking magazines that were never intended to hold only 10 rounds, you'd better be ready for some criticism.

And to address the thread topic, *YES*, it's actually really damn hard to get it right.

jonni
07-27-2010, 2:39 PM
If you're going to complain so much about blocking magazines that were never intended to hold only 10 rounds, you'd better be ready for some criticism.

And to address the thread topic, *YES*, it's actually really damn hard to get it right.

i never complained about converting mags into ten rounders. Hell I dont even own any 10/30s or 10/20s

why do you insist on telling people what they need or dont need?

Scratch705
07-27-2010, 2:48 PM
Gun stores in Nevada are requiring ID for a cash transaction on a non-firearm part?


they may or may not. since they know there are CA residents that do visit las vegas (in droves). depends all on the cashier. and if they saw you pull up in a CA license plate car.

CHS
07-27-2010, 3:27 PM
why do you insist on telling people what they need or dont need?

It's a fact that no one needs 10/20 or 10/30 magazines. Period.

It's also a fact that perfectly functional 10rd mags exist that don't hold 9 or 11 rounds, and only hold 10.

So, if someone is going to complain loudly about how someone can't get something right that they certainly do not need, I'm going to call them on the sillyness of it, when there are in fact 10rd mags out there that work. Period.

If you want 10/20 and 10/30 magazines, that's great for you. Hell, I use 10/20's myself. But I also know how much of a pain it is in order to get it right, so I don't complain if/when it happens. I just get my mags fixed.

Target Plinker
07-27-2010, 3:52 PM
You really threw me off. If he did this, then he would have been charged with importing magazines, not manufacturing them. Additionally, what of importance is the fact that he had parts to 10 round magazines with him? You seem pretty adament that is why he got busted. If you're going to tell the story, tell everything and be careful how it's worded. The CA gun laws are hard enough to understand, don't make it more complicated by being sloppy.

Edit: Why is the ATF enforcing CA laws?

You are right, why is the ATF enforcing in California. I believe its to stop people from buying Hi cap mags and importing for criminal purposes.
12020 reads
(1)Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale
(2)Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

Importing and Manufacturing fall under the same penal code. I'm just relaying info he told me while he was going through his case. Trying to help some other Calgunners from making the same mistake in the future.

Hope everyone plays it same with there mags since Most Law enforcement has no clue when it comes to these laws. They are just quick to say "Assault Rifle"

NapaCountyShooter
07-27-2010, 8:58 PM
If you're going to complain so much about blocking magazines that were never intended to hold only 10 rounds, you'd better be ready for some criticism.

And to address the thread topic, *YES*, it's actually really damn hard to get it right.

Next time I'll keep my *****ing to myself.

jonni
07-27-2010, 9:12 PM
It's a fact that no one needs 10/20 or 10/30 magazines. Period.



gee you sure sound like an anti

no one needs a semi auto rifle, a single shot bolt action is fine

no one needs a pistol grip, collapsible stock, or flash hider

no one needs a suppressor, select fire capability

no one needs a 50 bmg

no one needs hi cap mags

etc etc etc

ill ask you again, who are you to tell people what they need or not?

afro
07-27-2010, 9:36 PM
Wait I'm confused.

OP wanted 10/20s and 10/30s, which are by definition, 10 round magazines, which is the legal limit to newly purchased magazines, regardless of features. It is a little unclear to me what he meant by "only one of the 10/20's stopped at 10 rounds." Does that mean they took 11?

Then people come in saying "hey at least now you've got high caps, go featureless." So it's legal to make your rifle featureless then convert your 10/20 or 10/30s to standard capacity? I thought this was basically the same as manufacturing (IE building) rebuild kits in to magazines, which is illegal. Am I wrong?

Rekrab
07-27-2010, 9:54 PM
Then people come in saying "hey at least now you've got high caps, go featureless." So it's legal to make your rifle featureless then convert your 10/20 or 10/30s to standard capacity? I thought this was basically the same as manufacturing (IE building) rebuild kits in to magazines, which is illegal. Am I wrong?

There's nothing in the PC saying you can't buy high capacity magazines. He now has a high capacity magazine that someone illegally sold him. He didn't break any of the requisite rules to land him in court.

CHS
07-27-2010, 10:08 PM
gee you sure sound like an anti


And you sound like someone who just doesn't get it.

This is not the same argument as "no one needs a flash hider".

This is like someone saying "I really want a flash hider, but one that doesn't actually reduce any flash. All the fake flash hiders on the market reduce flash too much! Can't they get it right?!"

If you're asking for something that is in and of itself absurd, when there are plenty of similar things on the market that do the exact same thing without being absurd, then you are quite absurd yourself for complaining when the item isn't absurd enough. It's absurd!

BigDogatPlay
07-28-2010, 1:53 AM
:lurk5:

NapaCountyShooter
07-28-2010, 6:04 AM
And you sound like someone who just doesn't get it.

This is not the same argument as "no one needs a flash hider".

This is like someone saying "I really want a flash hider, but one that doesn't actually reduce any flash. All the fake flash hiders on the market reduce flash too much! Can't they get it right?!"

If you're asking for something that is in and of itself absurd, when there are plenty of similar things on the market that do the exact same thing without being absurd, then you are quite absurd yourself for complaining when the item isn't absurd enough. It's absurd!

Maybe I'm absurd and maybe I'm just vain for wanting empty shells of magazines just so my m&p15 just looks right. My reason for starting this thread is that when manufacturers make a product that has legal ramifications it stands to reason that they should check them to make sure they won't land themselves or their consumers in hot water by using their product. Gun manufacturers test fire their firearms before shipping them out. It's just good business practice. If I'm an idiot because I want an item that is as advertised then I guess I'm an idiot.

CHS
07-28-2010, 7:28 AM
Maybe I'm absurd and maybe I'm just vain for wanting empty shells of magazines just so my m&p15 just looks right. My reason for starting this thread is that when manufacturers make a product that has legal ramifications it stands to reason that they should check them to make sure they won't land themselves or their consumers in hot water by using their product. Gun manufacturers test fire their firearms before shipping them out. It's just good business practice. If I'm an idiot because I want an item that is as advertised then I guess I'm an idiot.

The other side of that coin is that magazines ARE disposables. They fail over time. They are designed to be thrown away and replaced, and even some standard 10rd magazines eventually wear out to the point where they carry 11rd's.

There really aren't any huge legal ramifications if you're doing your due diligence and testing your magazines.

Yes, it happens and 10/30's become 11/30's. Just test them, and get the manufacturer to replace them if it's the case. Don't blindly use them in a fixed-magazine rifle unless you've tested them, and realize that just because you can hammer an 11'th round into it, that doesn't mean it can accept and feed 11 rounds.

I've seen people try to make SOOO sure that their 10/30's don't hold 11 rounds, that they end up breaking their magazine trying to stuff an 11th round in.

tenpercentfirearms
07-28-2010, 8:23 AM
Maybe I'm absurd and maybe I'm just vain for wanting empty shells of magazines just so my m&p15 just looks right. My reason for starting this thread is that when manufacturers make a product that has legal ramifications it stands to reason that they should check them to make sure they won't land themselves or their consumers in hot water by using their product. Gun manufacturers test fire their firearms before shipping them out. It's just good business practice. If I'm an idiot because I want an item that is as advertised then I guess I'm an idiot.

This goes both ways. As the consumer who is going to use a product that could be potentially illegal, you might want to take extra precautions as you purchase them.

For example, an 11/20 mag outside of California is perfectly legal. We are assuming that these magazines were made in California for Californians. However, maybe there are people who like 11 round magazines.

Was there packaging that was sold with them that stated they were 10 rounders?

Personally, I find the idea that a rivet permanently converts a mag to be weak (however, the DOJ has argued that a rivet would permantently alter a fixed magazine rifle in their failed regulation change of 2006). I would not buy riveted magazines.

Right and wrong aside, this should be a lesson. Not everyone cares about your legal status. They care about money. Is it possible people will take your money without much concern with your legal status? Yes. Plan accordingly.

If you go to the gun show to buy AR15 magazines, bring some snap caps or some ammo with you and test the magazines. If they don't allow that, don't buy them.

And no one needs 10/20 or 10/30 magazines. They want them. Which is fine, to each their own. So I can tell anyone I want, "You don't need an AR15." You don't need it. You want it. And I will help you get your fix! :43: