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neomedic
07-23-2010, 6:49 PM
Was thinking about getting a sub-compact. I don't have a CCW, but just wanted one for the collection. I have full size handguns for home and self defensive purposes already.

Wanted to get some opinions as to what to get? Since its going to be so small, I was thinking that a 9mm would be good to have and easy to shoot with less recoil, so easier to get back on target. Or should I go with .45acp?

Was looking at the CZ Rami, XD subcompact, Glock 26, and the HK P2000sk. Which do you guys like and why? Any other suggestions?

Thanks.

GlennG31
07-23-2010, 7:27 PM
I was in your boat last year as I, too, was looking for a subcompact pistol. I've never handled a CZ Rami, so I can't give my feelings on that pistol. But I've handled the XD Subcompact, the Glock, and the HK P2000SK.

The XD Subcompact felt okay in my hands...not the worst, but certainly not the best for me.

The Glock...is a Glock. A lot of people love them, but I'm not in that camp. It just didn't feel right in my hand at all for me.

The P2000SK felt great in my hand, and I fell in love immediately. I ended up getting one in .40 S&W from another Calgunner here. It has 2 sizes of backstraps, so you can use whatever size fits better for you. Recoil is very manageable for a subcompact pistol. Mine has the LEM trigger, and once you get used to it, it is very nice. I also ended up purchasing a couple of P2000/USP Compact magazines since they also fit the P2000SK, along with some X-Grips.

As far as other subcompact pistols, I would suggest that you look at the S&W M&P Compact. The S&W M&P40C was actually second on my list behind the P2000SK. The M&P also felt great in my hand, and it also shot great with its low bore axis. For the past year, I've been looking to get an M&P, and I finally pulled the trigger yesterday and purchased a full size M&P40. Can't wait to get her home!

Good luck with your search! :thumbsup:

ROTC sniper
07-23-2010, 7:39 PM
I just bought the Ruger SR9c and like it a lot. It's very accurate out the box. The slide is a bit tough to rack but I'm sure that it'll get easier after I break it in. I can't tell you about any other sub compact but it's nice to have.

One problem is though that it'll get uncomfortable to shoot after awhile...at least it did for me. I have big hands and I had to really concentrate on holding it since it was so small vs all my other full size pistols.

I really bought it for my wife and her smaller hands :D (yeah right who am I kidding) but it's nice to have.

Baconator
07-23-2010, 7:59 PM
I have a G27 and the LCP. I found with the 27 (which is .40) I needed grip extensions to keep a good hold on the gun against the recoil. LCP is .380 so there isn't much recoil. I like these guns because they are concealable if need be.

Table Rock Arms
07-23-2010, 8:15 PM
I would say if you already have a full size 9mm, then you might want to look at the subcompact version of that pistol. If you have a glock 17 or 19 then get a 26. If you have an XD then get the XD subcompact and so on. mags would be compatible, and you would already be familiar with the gun.

plan-b
07-23-2010, 8:25 PM
P2000sk is a great gun (I have one) but make sure you get plenty of quality time with it first. If renting is a possibility, go that route. Otherwise lots of store fondling. Since your fingers will be a little more cramped on the short grip, the mag release may rub against your middle finger like it does mine.

bsg
07-23-2010, 8:44 PM
i'm liking the G26; it's withstood the test of time, shoots a round compatible with it's size... yet large enough caliber to matter, lightweight, dependable, accurate for a subcompact, and affordable.

neomedic
07-23-2010, 8:49 PM
I do have a Glock 19. And as for .45APC's...... i got a sig compact and a few full size .45APC (from Glocks, HKs, 1911, etc.). But nothing in the .40SW

I shot a Glock 26 w/ grip extension....feels good in my hand and very accurate. Still might be a possiblity. Since I have a G19, it would make the most sense, but......

As for the HK P2000sk.....are their grip extensions for them?

I can't shoot the G26 without the extension. Very uncomfortable and inaccurate. I liked the CZ Rami because of the metal frame. I guess the G26 is tried and trued. But since I don't have a CCW, I was hoping to get something fun like the CZ or HK and not the G26.

SPUTTER
07-23-2010, 10:15 PM
All metal CZ Rami. Why cough up all that dough for plastic?

bsg
07-23-2010, 10:46 PM
I do have a Glock 19. And as for .45APC's...... i got a sig compact and a few full size .45APC (from Glocks, HKs, 1911, etc.). But nothing in the .40SW

I shot a Glock 26 w/ grip extension....feels good in my hand and very accurate. Still might be a possiblity. Since I have a G19, it would make the most sense, but......

As for the HK P2000sk.....are their grip extensions for them?

I can't shoot the G26 without the extension. Very uncomfortable and inaccurate. I liked the CZ Rami because of the metal frame. I guess the G26 is tried and trued. But since I don't have a CCW, I was hoping to get something fun like the CZ or HK and not the G26.

the Pearce extension for the G26 is popular and makes it good to go. get what you like though; you buy it, it's yours. have fun with the search. trying to decide which one to buy is much more fun than trying to decide which one you have to sell....

Ultimate
07-23-2010, 11:57 PM
I only have experience with the P2000 SK LEM and the Glock 26.

Of the two I must admit that the P2000 felt the best in my hand when not firing it. However once I was firing it the P2000's recoil was felt more than the glock 26s. It was especially surprising because I had already fired the 26 prior. It felt what i would have imagined the glock 27 or XD .40 SC feel like. Sharp and flippy.

Also I hate the LEM trigger. Maybe I am just not used to it but it just feels unnecessarily long. In fact I would like it more if it was Double Action all the time than the LEM trigger. I dislike it that much.

If I was to get one I'd want it to the be the regular DA/SA.

The Glock 26 is a real pleasure to shoot. The recoil is sharp but very manageable. Especially when compared to the P2000. The trigger could use a little work like any glock out there but it is conventional in its function and working it over requires very little money.

Of the two I would opt for the Glock 26 hands down. Though I would like to shoot the DA/SA P2000 SK before I made a judgment assuming money was no object.

Masterdebater
07-24-2010, 3:13 AM
xd9 sc i just shot mine again today and cant put it down... get a pearce grip extension and fall in loave with it more..

lerroy1119
07-24-2010, 3:39 AM
I'm been debating myself between a OD g26 or a HKP200sk v3 9MM. I think I"m going to get the glock. Not because I don't like the feel or the trigger of the HK. in fact i prefer it, but it's because there's just more options and accessory for a glock then a HK.

GlennG31
07-24-2010, 9:17 AM
As for the HK P2000sk.....are their grip extensions for them?

Yes. X-Grip makes a grip extension for the P2000SK. However, you have to use it in conjunction with a P2000/USP Compact magazine (it just slips on). You can't use the X-Grip with the standard P2000SK magazine.

As far as a grip extension for the standard P2000SK magazine, I don't know of one in the market currently.

l8apex
07-24-2010, 9:21 AM
In that group, XD or G26. See my blog in my sig for a brief review of the SK and G26.

halo6941
07-24-2010, 9:37 AM
I have a Taurus PT-145 millenium pro. its a nice little compact buts its chambered in .45. not very many like taurus but ivenever had problems with mine. just a thought and it fits little hands or big hands perfectly.

Rivers
07-24-2010, 11:40 AM
The X-Grip spacer from HK slips over the longer P2000/USPc magazines to fill the gap created by the longer magazines. That effectively gives you the one extra round and full grip size and feel of the P2000/USPc. The regular HK-branded magazines cost about $25 at gun shows.

I have the P2000sk .40 with the light LEM trigger (about 4.5# pull). After a couple years and a few thousand rounds, I cannot honestly think of any subcompact pistol that I would trust as much as that. It's accurate, recoil is very manageable and it carries very well. Plus it has some serious punch! Yes, it costs more than the others. And yes, it's worth it.

One trick that I found with the P2000sk is to modify my grip to better control the recoil. When gripping normally, with my support hand fingers wrapping around the front (or over) of my trigger hand grip, the P2000sk kind of "owned" me. So I started putting my support hand's index finger on the forward knurled edge of the trigger guard. This moved my support grip forward and up toward the slide more than my previous grip. Big difference! Now I have great control on the sub-compact, even with the short (standard) magazine. The modified grip even works well on my fullsize .45 USP.

neomedic
07-24-2010, 12:46 PM
Sometimes too much reading and researching is bad. Now I'm thinking if I should go with a .40SW or stick with a 9mm??? Since most of these subcompacts have both calibers...not an issue with availability.

I currenlty don't have anything in 40SW, but it nice to have a platform that can shoot it. Always thought the 357Sig was an interesting round. That way I have all of the most popular platform covered and in a SHTF situation, as long as I find some ammo, I should have something to shoot it with.

pTa
07-24-2010, 2:55 PM
I would say if you already have a full size 9mm, then you might want to look at the subcompact version of that pistol. If you have a glock 17 or 19 then get a 26. If you have an XD then get the XD subcompact and so on. mags would be compatible, and you would already be familiar with the gun.

+1 on this / what's your fave full size pistol? Also, in a compact to sub-compact gun this won't be a issue, but in the really compact (PM9 Kahr size etc) 9mm usually affords you 1 round over .40 in capacity. Just sayin'

Noah3683
07-24-2010, 3:52 PM
I just got an M&P40c and I LOVE it. It has immediately become my favorite of my pistols. I still have my eye on the xd9sc as well though.

Greg-Dawg
07-24-2010, 4:35 PM
Get a Glock 27. I have one and everyone wants to be like me.

I do have a Glock 19. And as for .45APC's.

There's no such caliber, but there is a .45ACP.

haodoken
07-24-2010, 6:17 PM
My vote is for the XD9 9mm Sub-compact. I love it. It is a little heavy for some, but I find it accurate, concealable and the 13rd mags another plus. It's my go to off-duty CCW. :D

neomedic
07-25-2010, 8:59 AM
How does everyone feel about the 9mm vs. 40SW in a platform such as a sub-compact? I know most guns will have 10 rounds in 9mm vs. 9 rounds in a 40SW. I personally don't feel losing one round is too much of a concern if the 40SW performs better than the 9mm.

If performace is the same, then I would go with the 9mm.

Thanks for all the inputs!!

Rivers
07-25-2010, 9:07 AM
Performance isn't the same. 40 cal packs more punch than 9mm. And I can load my P2000sk with 10+1, the legal limit in CA for now.

Dubious_Beans
07-25-2010, 9:53 AM
40 cal packs more punch.
9mm is cheaper to shoot so you'll likely practice more.

audiophil2
07-25-2010, 10:30 AM
It would not make much sense to get a G26 with grip extension if you already have a G19. The only difference would be a shorter barrel and that would be more of a handicap.
I never shot a P2000 but I loved my left and right variant stainless USPc pistols, to look at. I did not consider them reliable enough for CCW.
I did not like the grip safety on the XD and it did not feel or shoot as well as the HK or Glock.
I tried plenty of sub-compacts for my CCW and went with the G26. I am not a Glock fan at all and would not be interested in any other Glocks. My wife tried several guns for her CCW and she went right back to the G26 so now we have 2 in the family.

1911Operator
07-25-2010, 10:43 AM
I had a 26. great little gun. but, I was taking it to the range all the time and not too comferable to shoot . So, I sold it and now im looking for 19. I had a Para nitehawg too. very nice gun, but again with the shootability. I would recommend a compact, not a sub-compact. I think the rami does allow all your fingers on the grip. if so, get that one or the P2000. just have the comfort in mind. you dont want to spend $500+ on a gun that you dont enjoy shooting do you?

neomedic
07-25-2010, 11:28 AM
I was just looking at the CA list and looks like for the HK P2000sk, only variant 2 is on the list. Is variant 2 the LEM trigger. Seems like people don't like that much.

Variant 3 is on the list as well, can I get that and then convert it to a variant 1 (DA/SA with safety/decoker on the left side of the gun)?

Or should I just wait till Pena get through and hopefully there will NOT be any lists anymore.

Edit...looks like Variant 3 is only a decoker button on the left side of the gun.

neomedic
07-25-2010, 12:27 PM
Found a HK P2000sk on gun broker. But it didn't specify if it was V3. Is this CA approved? How do I check base on model number since CA DOJ list don't list the model numbers.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=181357283

Thanks.

Old4eyes
07-25-2010, 12:48 PM
The gunbroker listing states it has a decocker.
That to me makes it a V3 model.

On the dreaded CA safe gun list, two models of the P2000SK-V3 listed, 9mm and 40.
The 2000sk-v2 is also listed in both Calibers.

You can get 9 round or 12 round magazines (.40) and the listing shows 9 round magazines, so from that perspective, it should be good.

From a purely non professional non legal opinion, it looks like it looks like it matches the listing shown in the CA list.

KillZone45
07-25-2010, 12:59 PM
All metal CZ Rami. Why cough up all that dough for plastic?

'cuz plastic is fantastic:D

GlennG31
07-25-2010, 1:30 PM
For the P2000SK, Variant 2 is the LEM trigger. I happen to like the LEM trigger. It takes a little bit to get used to it, but I love it now that I am.

tonelar
07-25-2010, 1:37 PM
I shot my G26 a couple days ago / while my favorite sub-compact is my PM9- that G26 is so fun to shoot- and it gives away very little in accuracy

stick with a caliber you already have

Gryff
07-25-2010, 1:49 PM
My CCW gun is a Smith & Wesson M&P Compact in .40S&W. Great ergonomics on the gun, accurate, and reliable.

My wife's is a Glock 26, although she doesn't like the grip if she isn't using the mag with a finger extension.

tonelar
07-25-2010, 3:00 PM
from the ballistic testing i've seen if you're going to be using ball ammo defensively go with a .45 / if you're good with buying bonded hollow point ammo (in a super short barreled compact they recommend +P loads) go with a 9mm.

IIRC you mentioned you already had 45 and 9mm handguns, right?

WTSGDYBBR
07-25-2010, 3:11 PM
I got the Glock 27 Sub-Compact . I hate the aim on it. My hands may be to large for the gun. I don't like the low aim the high hit every time at the range. I do like that it is a 40ca. I bought the 9mm and 357sig custom barrels.When swapping out the 40ca barrel to the 9mm seems as you can control the gun. It more like a cap gun to me. I have tried the 357sig mod and it kicks like a bull. I would say its a safe gun for self defenses in case you had to pop someone fast. But its not a gun to go into a battle with.

Rivers
07-25-2010, 3:30 PM
With the P2000 (regular or sk), you need to get it with the trigger style you want. You cannot convert a P2000 from DA/SA to LEM. You can swap out the two springs in the LEM trigger to lighten it from 8# to 4.5# (which is really nice!) The LEM trigger is different. My feeling is that for a SD firearm, it's the best design out there. No external safety lever but a longish trigger pull to avoid accidental discharges. It's not too long but enough so you're unlikely to let one loose carelessly. And it's light, clean with a short reset for follow-up shots.

dexter9659
07-25-2010, 3:39 PM
Dont forget about Kahr. They make very nice small and slim guns.

http://www.kahr.com/

neomedic
07-25-2010, 3:47 PM
IIRC you mentioned you already had 45 and 9mm handguns, right?

Yes...I have .45 and 9mm guns already.


Anyone know of any ranges in Los Angeles / San Gabriel Valley that I can rent a P2000sk with a LEM trigger that I can shoot. I think I know how the SA/DA trigger would be since I have a USP .45

I think I'm starting to narrow it down to:
1) 9mm = CZ Rami
2) 40SW = HK PK2000sk (don't know if it should be LEM or standard SA/DA trigger)

Not sure which one performs better in such short barrles.

Thanks for the input guys!! Keep them comming. It really helps....you guys helped me decide on my frist 1911 =)

Sunday
07-25-2010, 5:45 PM
Something to think about a 442 smith J frame!! It is at its best up close and personal

Noah3683
07-25-2010, 5:55 PM
How does everyone feel about the 9mm vs. 40SW in a platform such as a sub-compact? I know most guns will have 10 rounds in 9mm vs. 9 rounds in a 40SW. I personally don't feel losing one round is too much of a concern if the 40SW performs better than the 9mm.

If performace is the same, then I would go with the 9mm.

Thanks for all the inputs!!

M&P40C is 10+1

tonelar
07-25-2010, 6:44 PM
Wanna really compact weapon, my Kahr PM9 follows me everywhere. And it's the size of a .380.

neomedic
07-27-2010, 12:15 AM
anyone know where I can rent a HK with an LEM trigger to shoot? Don't know if I like that trigger or not.

Still thinking about the HK P2000sk or the CZ Rami.

IrishPirate
07-27-2010, 12:21 AM
how about one of these?

l_TeYqvpk-A

pTa
07-27-2010, 2:11 PM
KIq3JkoABYM

if barbie owned a revolver

Rivers
07-27-2010, 3:59 PM
anyone know where I can rent a HK with an LEM trigger to shoot? Don't know if I like that trigger or not.

Still thinking about the HK P2000sk or the CZ Rami.

If you came to SD, I'd be happy to let you try my P2000sk .40 with the light LEM. I've looked at the CZ and like the ergonomics. But the HK is still at the head of its class.

GreenAndy
07-27-2010, 4:17 PM
I chose the Glock 27. I like the .40 round and reload it. The G27 is easy to shoot accurately. I imagine the G26 is too, and since you have the larger 9mm it would make sense to stick to 9mm. There are good 9mm personal protection rounds available these days.

Now I'm looking for a G23....

neomedic
07-27-2010, 6:13 PM
Is this the V2 of the P2000sk that is on the California Safe List?

Bud's gun shop didn't list the Variant number.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_47_913/products_id/15356

advocatusdiaboli
07-27-2010, 7:53 PM
The Sig P239 isn't really a sub-compact, it's a single stack compact. I used to own a G27 and just didn't feel right for me--too short in the grip which made it hard to control. I now have a Sig P239 in .357 SIG (and .40--just a barrel change and because I have a few .40 pistols). I might even get a 9mm barrel, spring, and mags for fun. I like it and it's the number one off-duty carry (if you believe Sig) as well as FBI, Secret Service, and Air Marshals choice for a reason--it's solid and reliable. It's a bit bigger than a sub-compact though. Just a bit of different perspective in case anyone finds it interesting. Or not.

neomedic
07-27-2010, 9:46 PM
Is this the V2 of the P2000sk that is on the California Safe List?

Bud's gun shop didn't list the Variant number.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_47_913/products_id/15356

Want to put the order in tomorrow. Can anyone confirm this?

And also....is the Variant 3 (V3)???
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_47_913/products_id/15357

Thanks.

GlennG31
07-27-2010, 9:52 PM
Is this the V2 of the P2000sk that is on the California Safe List?

Bud's gun shop didn't list the Variant number.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_47_913/products_id/15356

From the description as "Double Action Only," this does look to be Variant 2 with the LEM trigger.

GlennG31
07-27-2010, 9:58 PM
Want to put the order in tomorrow. Can anyone confirm this?

And also....is the Variant 3 (V3)???
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_47_913/products_id/15357

Thanks.

From the description as "Single / Double Action," this does look to be Variant 3. However, it is hard to verify with the picture shown on the web page. For Variant 3, the decocker is located adjacent to the hammer.

neomedic
07-27-2010, 10:34 PM
I tried to google HK's model number that Bud's Gun Shop put on that P2000sk. Its 704303


But I couldn't confirm if it's V3? Anyone know or have a website where it list the model number with the variant number???

Ultimate
08-03-2010, 1:45 AM
anyone know where I can rent a HK with an LEM trigger to shoot? Don't know if I like that trigger or not.

Still thinking about the HK P2000sk or the CZ Rami.

If you are ever up in Bakersfield, CA 2nd amendment sports has the P2000SK LEM trigger.

If you don't want to buy a membership let me know and we can use mine.