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map
07-23-2010, 9:50 AM
I'm a Glock person and have not had any problems with hollow points. I just picked up a Sprinfield 1911 Operator Champion (4 inch barrel) and have been having trouble chambering a hollow point round. It appears the point gets stuck on the ramp and the slide jams. When I use a full metal jacket, I do not have the same problem. Has this happened to anyone else? What did you do to resolve it? Thanks in advance to everyone.

faterikcartman
07-23-2010, 9:59 AM
Here's a few ideas:

Get a different 1911.

Get your 1911 worked on by a competent gunsmith (may turn out it was more economical to start out with a better 1911 to begin with).

Get a Dremmel, look online or in a book or magazine for instructions and take your chances.

Try Speer Gold Dot HP ammo. Bullets are sort of rounded and can feed better than some other options.

Ed_Hazard
07-23-2010, 9:59 AM
Well first off which HP are you useing. As with any gun ammo selection is key. Some designs have to aggressive a design and will cause the lip of the HP to hang up. I run Remington Golden Sabres in all my 1911's and have had no problems. My TRP will reliably chsmber all HP's I've fed it, my Charles Daly compact will choke on ones w/too aggressive an opening. Try different ammo's untill you find one that works.

Also are you useing good quality mags? The use of weak or poorly made mags can also cause jams. Is the gun new or didi you buy it used? Even if it is new you might want to look into getting some Wolf replacement springs that have a higher power rating. Dont give up on HP's yet. You could also try some of the newer designs like the Power Ball ammo and that shoul help eliminate the FTF.

EDIT: +1 on the Speer Gold Dots, very good HP ammo, Like I said buy some different brands and use the time tested method of Trial and Error.

ojisan
07-23-2010, 10:00 AM
Often HPs are shorter than FMJ 230s.
This may require a bit of magazine lip tweaking to allow the nose of the HP round to sit a little higher.
I'm not sure what mags you are using, the Wilson 47D seems to feed everything.
You may also just need a little more break-in time.

JTROKS
07-23-2010, 10:29 AM
Usually a magazine of a better design will solve the problem. The SA Champion should have a generous throat, may just need a feed ramp polish. Try a different mag first, some mags will position and angle the round's nose a little higher, which is conducive to better feeding. If you were closer I'd let you try a couple of different mags.

Sam
07-23-2010, 10:30 AM
Pick up a couple of Wilson mags and see what happens.

map
07-23-2010, 10:41 AM
Well first off which HP are you useing. As with any gun ammo selection is key. Some designs have to aggressive a design and will cause the lip of the HP to hang up. I run Remington Golden Sabres in all my 1911's and have had no problems. My TRP will reliably chsmber all HP's I've fed it, my Charles Daly compact will choke on ones w/too aggressive an opening. Try different ammo's untill you find one that works.

Also are you useing good quality mags? The use of weak or poorly made mags can also cause jams. Is the gun new or didi you buy it used? Even if it is new you might want to look into getting some Wolf replacement springs that have a higher power rating. Dont give up on HP's yet. You could also try some of the newer designs like the Power Ball ammo and that shoul help eliminate the FTF.

EDIT: +1 on the Speer Gold Dots, very good HP ammo, Like I said buy some different brands and use the time tested method of Trial and Error.

Thanks for the post. It's a new firearm and I'm using the magazines that came with them.

map
07-23-2010, 10:42 AM
Usually a magazine of a better design will solve the problem. The SA Champion should have a generous throat, may just need a feed ramp polish. Try a different mag first, some mags will position and angle the round's nose a little higher, which is conducive to better feeding. If you were closer I'd let you try a couple of different mags.

Thanks for the tip and thanks for the offer. Very nice of you do to that.

map
07-23-2010, 10:42 AM
Thanks everyone. I'll try new mags first. This is a brand new firearm and I was using the factory mags that came with it. Thanks again.

dadoody
07-23-2010, 11:24 AM
1.) Polish the ramp
2.) Stronger recoil spring(?)
3.) Different Hollowpoint ammo. I like Winchester Ranger 45acp and Winchester PDX Bonded. No feed problems with them in my Kimber.

Bullwinkle
07-23-2010, 11:24 AM
If you don't feel like modifying your gun or tweaking around, and other brands of hollow points won't work either, you can also try Federal's EFMJ ammo (expanding full metal jacket). It has the same profile as a normal FMJ, but with a plastic tip. When the bullet strikes the target, the tip is pushed into the cavity and helps expand the bullet.

I think Hornady's flex-tip rounds (e.g. Hornady Critical Defense) are designed around the same idea, but with the emphasis more on reliable expansion than proper feeding.

phamkl
07-23-2010, 11:46 AM
One last thing - I'd stay away from the Dremel...

Colt
07-23-2010, 11:53 AM
First - Do NOT mess with the ramp. Brand new pistol, worst case you send back to factory, but not if you've bubba'd up the ramp.


Try different ammo - +1 to Speer Gold Dots - 230 grain. If that doesn't work...
Try extra power mag springs - Wolff sells them www.gunsprings.com. If that doesn't work, try other mags, preferbly with extra power mag springs (I prefer the Tripp Cobramags over the Wilson 47D).

You could also try calling Springfield - ask them which, if any hollow points they recommend in that pistol.

Oh, and before you do anything - is the extractor tension OK?

Good luck

mrlightning559
07-23-2010, 12:44 PM
Try the Corbon I believe it's called hard ball or something it has a polymer ball so it feed like ball ammo but has good expansion

sholling
07-23-2010, 12:49 PM
You're gotten some very good advice and yes some pretty seriously bad advice. Stop and sort it before acting on any of it. You have a nice 1911 so set's start with the basics and work from there.

Is it clean and well lubed? The shipping lube is purely anti-rust and needs to come off. 1911s like to run "wet" - plenty of oil on the rails.
If it's a new weapon it may need a couple of hundred rounds to get everything broken in. If you have 200-300 rounds of FMJ through it then it's time to go to step 3.
The #1 weakeness of any 1911 is poor magazines. Manufacturers sell to a price point and mag quality can suffer. I'd try a Wilson mag. If that doesn't do the job then it's time for step 4.
Try a different round. Every autoloader has one it likes better than others. If that doesn't solve your problem then go to step 5.
Gunsmithing: This is not a DIY job. Do NOT mess with the ramp yourself!!! It's not even a job for your average professional gunsmith. 1911 tuning is a specialty. If you bought it new then have Springfield Armory fix it free under warranty. You might even have them do a trigger job (small extra cost) while they have it since they are already paying for the shipping in both directions. They have world class customer service and this will keep your warranty in force. If you bought it used then research local gun smiths until you find one that knows 1911s inside and out.

That's a decent pistol. Go through the steps and get it reliable and you'll have a fine lifetime investment.

faterikcartman
07-23-2010, 12:59 PM
Perhaps I should have spelled out what I meant by "and take your chances" -- that means risking fudging it up, destroying your warranty, etc. It was meant to come across as not a good idea at all and I mentioned it because so many magazines and people will encourage you to try it.

Reading the other comments above I see "take your chances" didn't come across as I intended and many read it as actually suggesting you try it. Just the opposite. I was trying to highlight it is a hell of a gamble. Sorry for not being more clear.

As for magazines, I've been using 47Ds and other good quality mags without trouble for so long that magazine trouble slipped my mind. Sure, try that too.

As someone suggested you can send it back -- but then you'll pay a bundle for shipping. And verify they consider trouble feeding HP ammo a problem they're willing to be responsible for.

Army
07-23-2010, 1:17 PM
Chip McCormick or Wilson magazines run best.

It's not the gun. My Springers will feed empty cases.

map
07-23-2010, 1:57 PM
More good info. Thanks everyone.

Does anyone here use the 1911 as their choice for home defense?

I was going to because of the night sights but I'm still using my Glock. My Springfield has never been fired. I'll take it to the range and change the magazines out.

Colt
07-23-2010, 2:50 PM
More good info. Thanks everyone.

Does anyone here use the 1911 as their choice for home defense?

I was going to because of the night sights but I'm still using my Glock. My Springfield has never been fired. I'll take it to the range and change the magazines out.

If I'm grabbing a pistol for HD, it would be a 1911.

Legasat
07-23-2010, 3:02 PM
Listen to the people that are telling you "Do not mess with the gun yourself."

The worst case is to send it back to SA and let them do it. They will do it for free under warranty.

Some 1911's do like to break in before they behave. I shot 300 FMJ before I even tried a JHP. I have never had any problems.

The Wilson 47D's or the Chip McCormick Power Mags are the magazines you want to try. I use both, and have never had a problem. The Dan Wesson magazines that came with my PM-7 would give FTF occasionally.

Just to reiterate..."Stay away from the dremel unless you really know what you are doing."

map
07-23-2010, 4:21 PM
Listen to the people that are telling you "Do not mess with the gun yourself."

The worst case is to send it back to SA and let them do it. They will do it for free under warranty.

Some 1911's do like to break in before they behave. I shot 300 FMJ before I even tried a JHP. I have never had any problems.

The Wilson 47D's or the Chip McCormick Power Mags are the magazines you want to try. I use both, and have never had a problem. The Dan Wesson magazines that came with my PM-7 would give FTF occasionally.

Just to reiterate..."Stay away from the dremel unless you really know what you are doing."

Good points here. I will refrain from messing with the firearm. It's good to know that you had to shoot 300 rounds before loading hollow points. I'll break the firearm in first then pick up some new mags.

I do not know what a "dremel" is. What is that?

Thanks for the post.

SNEAKS
07-23-2010, 4:57 PM
Congrats on your SA. That model is a nice one. Ive been looking for a used one for a long time now since its not on the CA list. I would run a few hundred round through it with FMJ before trying HP ammo. Also switch mags for more quality ones. If that does not work send it to a gunsmith with a few boxes of the ammo you plan on running in it and have em make some tweeks to run that ammo.

Colt
07-23-2010, 5:01 PM
I do not know what a "dremel" is. Good What is that? You don't want to know...



Good luck.

Chief-7700
07-23-2010, 5:04 PM
More good info. Thanks everyone.

Does anyone here use the 1911 as their choice for home defense?

I was going to because of the night sights but I'm still using my Glock. My Springfield has never been fired. I'll take it to the range and change the magazines out.

SA TRP Operator or Colt M-1911 are my goto guns

1911Luvr
07-23-2010, 5:17 PM
+1 for Wilson Combat 47D mags. They feed much more reliably than stock SA mags!

sholling
07-23-2010, 5:57 PM
As someone suggested you can send it back -- but then you'll pay a bundle for shipping. And verify they consider trouble feeding HP ammo a problem they're willing to be responsible for.
Why would he pay a bundle for shipping? If it's under warranty SA will just send him a prepaid shipping label.

sholling
07-23-2010, 6:03 PM
Good points here. I will refrain from messing with the firearm. It's good to know that you had to shoot 300 rounds before loading hollow points. I'll break the firearm in first then pick up some new mags.
If your Springer has an aluminum frame your best choice for magazines with Wilson. If it has a steel frame a Chip McCormick mag can be slightly more reliable than the excellent Wilson mags but are unsuitable for for use in aluminum framed 1911.

I do not know what a "dremel" is. What is that?
A Dremel is a hand held grinder that can turn a $1000 1911 into scrap metal in about 2 seconds.

PutTogether
07-23-2010, 6:04 PM
You're gotten some very good advice and yes some pretty seriously bad advice. Stop and sort it before acting on any of it. You have a nice 1911 so set's start with the basics and work from there.

Is it clean and well lubed? The shipping lube is purely anti-rust and needs to come off. 1911s like to run "wet" - plenty of oil on the rails.
If it's a new weapon it may need a couple of hundred rounds to get everything broken in. If you have 200-300 rounds of FMJ through it then it's time to go to step 3.
The #1 weakeness of any 1911 is poor magazines. Manufacturers sell to a price point and mag quality can suffer. I'd try a Wilson mag. If that doesn't do the job then it's time for step 4.
Try a different round. Every autoloader has one it likes better than others. If that doesn't solve your problem then go to step 5.
Gunsmithing: This is not a DIY job. Do NOT mess with the ramp yourself!!! It's not even a job for your average professional gunsmith. 1911 tuning is a specialty. If you bought it new then have Springfield Armory fix it free under warranty. You might even have them do a trigger job (small extra cost) while they have it since they are already paying for the shipping in both directions. They have world class customer service and this will keep your warranty in force. If you bought it used then research local gun smiths until you find one that knows 1911s inside and out.

That's a decent pistol. Go through the steps and get it reliable and you'll have a fine lifetime investment.

This post here nails it, but I will try to make a couple of additions (which is tough, because sholling knows of what he speaks with 1911s.

Don't change anything until you've fired several hundred rounds through it, cleaned, oiled it, and tried again.

Try some Wilson Combat, or Chip McCormick magazines. By all accounts, the best in the business. (I prefer wilson, but apparently they are both phenomenal.)

For a specific round: Try the Remington 230 grain JHP in the green box, that is NOT the golden saber. It is tough to explain without seeing it, but they have the "roundest" profile of any hollow point .45. I've owned some picky .45s, and never, NEVER had one jam using one of the remington standard JHP. (on the plus side, they are cheaper)

If all else fails, often times a simple swap to an 18lb recoil spring fixes this problem. Switching recoil springs is not a cure all, and it may not make much sense to you how much it can change if you are new to 1911s.......but in a case where everything functions 100% EXCEPT the occasional flat pointed hollow point hanging on the ramp..... sometimes a new spring is just the thing - cheap, non permanent, and easy to replace.

Edited to add:

Yes, a 1911 is my "go to" gun for home defense:

http://criminalhandbook.com/AR/gsr.jpg

sholling
07-23-2010, 6:12 PM
More good info. Thanks everyone.

Does anyone here use the 1911 as their choice for home defense?

I was going to because of the night sights but I'm still using my Glock. My Springfield has never been fired. I'll take it to the range and change the magazines out.
Use the one you feel comfortable with. My outlook is that I want 300+ break-in rounds through a pistol (any pistol) before I test it with self defense loads. Then at least 100 of my chosen self defense round with zero stoppages before I consider any pistol ready to trust with my life. Anytime that you change self defense loads you'll want to rerun the 100rd test to make sure the new round feeds reliably.

Oh and I slept very well for the 20 years that I had a 1911 next to my bed. ;)

evidens83
07-23-2010, 6:15 PM
My RIA Tactical eats PDX1 all day :D

nfranco
07-23-2010, 6:27 PM
Good mags make the difference, Tripp is another great one. http://www.trippresearch.com/store/store_1911.html

Good series of articles from someone who knows the 1911 platform.
http://www.10-8performance.com/Articles.html


Oh and I slept very well for the 20 years that I had a 1911 next to my bed. ;)

Same here.

Legasat
07-23-2010, 6:30 PM
A Dremel is a hand held grinder that can turn a $1000 1911 into scrap metal in about 2 seconds.

Maybe the best description of the Dremel I have ever heard!

sevensix2x51
07-23-2010, 8:33 PM
Maybe the best description of the Dremel I have ever heard!

sig line worthy for sure..

+1 for break-in and new magazines. i have a couple magazines that just will NOT feed hollowpoints; a 10rd mec-gar and an 8rd nighthawk. then again, i have about 15 of those cheap $8 colt magazines that have been floating around awhile, and they feed hp's all day long.. the same with the mags with 2 holes in the floorplate, i forget who makes them. promag? i think they come with new kimbers...

fwiw, i keep a kimber pro carry ready to go every night.

BryanB
07-24-2010, 11:19 AM
JMB designed the 1911 to fire ball ammo, that being said most manufacturers if not all recommend you run ball ammo through your 1911 to break it in and NOT HP's. Each manufacturer will recommend a breaking in period and even the type of ammunition your 1911 should use.

Springfield has excellent customer service and a lifetime warranty on their firearms and they will make it right for you. I own 4 of their 1911's(TRP Operator, Loaded, Milspec, G.I.). All of them function flawlessly. Give them a call if the problem persists after you have gone through the recommended breaking in period.

FeuerFrei
07-24-2010, 11:41 AM
Short barrel 1911 style pistols are sometimes finicky about anything but 230 gr. ball ammo.
Shoot nothing but ball ammo for 500 rds or so. Clean grease/oil as required.
After break in period use whatever HP ammo you like and then go with the stuff that is 100% function 100% of the time.
For me it is the CorBon PowerBall 165 gr. ammo. My "good" CCW defense load.
Or skip ahead and have a 1911 smith work it over for you. +$$

Ricky-Ray
07-24-2010, 2:33 PM
Try Speer Gold Dot HP ammo. Bullets are sort of rounded and can feed better than some other options.

That's what I've been running in my SA Mil Spec and have absolutely no problems with it.

map
07-24-2010, 2:37 PM
Thanks for all the good suggestions. I'm going to the range tomorrow. Gonna put 150 rounds to break it in. I'll let everyone know what happens.

map
07-24-2010, 2:39 PM
Oh just thought I'd share, before I go to the range I'm picking up my Mosin Nagant. :)

Fishslayer
07-24-2010, 3:38 PM
One last thing - I'd stay away from the Dremel...

First - Do NOT mess with the ramp. Brand new pistol, worst case you send back to factory, but not if you've bubba'd up the ramp.

And so on. Put the Dremel down & step away!:eek:

Try the FMJ for a few hunnert rounds & see if that helps. Personally, I don't buy the "break in" but that's already been discussed.:D

Brand new pistol that doesn't function should go back to the factory. WITH the mags. That's what I did with my Ruger & it turned out all four factory mags (from 2 different sources) were bad. That woulda been a LOT of money (to me) to fix what shoulda been right in the first place.

I just don't unnerstan' people who think it's OK to put a lot of money into a brand new weapon to make it work properly.:confused:

And yes. Definitely try different makes of ammo. Some guns are finicky. I don't buy THAT one either, but...

FWIW I've had no real problem with WWB JHP or Win PDX. Nor my Hornady XTP HP handloads. The Gold Dot seems closest to a FMJ profile. I know I've loaded some but can't recall if I've used them yet.

Haven't found a boolit yet that wouldn't feed in this one, and mags are only a buck apiece.:D
IT goes bang EVERY time. ;)

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn215/THE_Fishslayer/100_1109.jpg

rips31
07-24-2010, 5:44 PM
i run at least 500rd of ball through any new (to me) pistol before i start with the hp. then i buy a box of each type of jhp that i might want to run to see which works. whichever seems best, i buy another 500rd to make sure that there's no hiccups. generally clean and lube every 100rd or so, just to check how dirty the ammo is, too.

that being said, my 1911s all like chip mccormick power mags with gold dot 230gr jhp.

nimoZ
07-24-2010, 5:56 PM
Does anyone here use the 1911 as their choice for home defense?



Yes - and no issues with Winchester Ranger HP. I always test at the range before I change anything: gun, ammo and mags.

/n

faterikcartman
07-24-2010, 11:40 PM
Why would he pay a bundle for shipping? If it's under warranty SA will just send him a prepaid shipping label.

Sorry, my only SA gun is a Professional and I've not had any trouble so I have no idea what their policy is. Other companies have said "send it in" to me -- with no offers to pay for shipping. Hence I made an assumption that is apparently incorrect.

sholling
07-25-2010, 12:58 AM
Sorry, my only SA gun is a Professional and I've not had any trouble so I have no idea what their policy is. Other companies have said "send it in" to me -- with no offers to pay for shipping. Hence I made an assumption that is apparently incorrect.
Springfield Armory and S&W are both pretty good about sending out prepaid labels.

K1LLROI
07-25-2010, 1:16 PM
I read somewhere, I forget where. That a bit of petroleum jelly at the tip of those hp's might help with feeding issues. I personally have never tried. Anyone hear of this?

Ed_Hazard
07-25-2010, 1:26 PM
I read somewhere, I forget where. That a bit of petroleum jelly at the tip of those hp's might help with feeding issues. I personally have never tried. Anyone hear of this?


No never read that one myself. I'm sure it would make for some fun cleaning after your range session though. Plus I'd like to know how haveing that gunk on the bullet would affect it's flight track, I'm thinking more keyhole less expansion on impact.

krashstitches
07-25-2010, 5:09 PM
You shouldnt be having these problems. SA not only will send you a prepaid shipping label, they have been known to do some extra bonus work to your pistol to make up for the inconvenience. They are known to have A+ customer service.

map
07-25-2010, 10:20 PM
Hi Everyone. Went to the range today. My 1911 SA Operator Champion did well. No jams for the first 100 rounds. But when I put drop of "Ultra-Care" on the barrel ramp, it jammed. I wiped off the drop of "Ultra-Care" and it did not jam anymore. I feel more confident with my 1911 (however, I still use my Glock 22 as my home defense weapon of choice). If no other jamming occurs after another 300 rounds, I'll switch to the 1911 as the home defense weapon of choice. Thanks for all the good advice.

1911su16b870
07-26-2010, 10:07 AM
IMO the Wilson magazines are a must have for your 1911. I have had a couple issues with Win SXT/Ranger haning up on one of the HP bullet joints and run Remington Golden Sabers 100% reliably in my Kimber CDP and TLE RL2.