PDA

View Full Version : bringing in non banned long guns into PRK?


billym
04-19-2006, 3:29 PM
I have been reading my copy of the California gun laws and it says that one cannot import hand guns and AWs but I didn't see anything about shotguns and non-AW rifles.
I have no intention of breaking laws but it looks like I can buy a gun (non Aw long guns) in another state and I do not have to transfer it through an FFL.
Do I have it right?
I travel a lot for business to states where you can just walk out the door with a new gun. Can I bring it back to PRK? I looks to me like I can.
I'm thinking mostly deer rifles, shotgun rifle combos and single shots.

blacklisted
04-19-2006, 3:43 PM
I believe that federal law says you can't buy a gun from an FFL in another state and take it directly back to CA (unless you have a C&R and get a C&R long gun).

I'm not too sure though.

Cdog
04-19-2006, 4:45 PM
You must be a resident for 90 days of another state. A DL or Id card with some utilitiy bills will be required. Perfectly legal. You will just have to give up your CA residency. Who cares about that anyway? As far as i'm concearned the goverment of Ca can kiss my ***.

billym
04-19-2006, 4:50 PM
So it is a federal law that you must be a resident of a particular state to buy a firearm in that state? If I saw a used rifle in Virginia for example, I would have to pay for it and have it shipped to a local (CA) FFL?

EBWhite
04-19-2006, 4:52 PM
You could (if your allowed to buy a gun by law) purchase a LONG gun only from a private seller out of state while traveling and bring it back. Long guns are not registered to a person and as long as your legal and it is legal you should not run into any issues

Cdog
04-19-2006, 4:55 PM
Not sure. I know some states residents are not allowed to do that. I think Ca might be one. In states like AZ you can still do a private party transfer without a FFl. All the seller needs to do is see some ID and make a recipt. The only reason i'm a CA resident at the moment is to register my new Ar's when the reg window opens.

-hanko
04-19-2006, 4:55 PM
So it is a federal law that you must be a resident of a particular state to buy a firearm in that state? If I saw a used rifle in Virginia for example, I would have to pay for it and have it shipped to a local (CA) FFL?
Federal law says you can buy a long gun out of state as long as the transaction is legal in BOTH the state of purchase AND the buyer's state of residence. Since the PRK requires DROS at time of purchase, and since an out of state licensee cannot DROS, you are out of luck. Exceptions would be C&R guns if you have a license, and antiques.

You can have a licensee in the state of purchase ship the rifle to a prk ffl where you'll start the DROS.

-hanko

Stanze
04-19-2006, 4:59 PM
You could (if your allowed to buy a gun by law) purchase a LONG gun only from a private seller out of state while traveling and bring it back. Long guns are not registered to a person and as long as your legal and it is legal you should not run into any issues

You'd be breaking federal and state law if you did that.

State laws say's all class 01 firearms have to go through a licensed CA FFL as long as you're a CA resident. A.T.F. say's state laws must be followed on both parties state of residence in firearm transaction.

Cdog
04-19-2006, 5:02 PM
Virgina is where the batf was following people out of the gun shows and accusing them of staw purchase and taking their guns untill they show up in court. I would not buy anthing there. Are you not a NRA menber? The article is in the new American Rifleman.

billym
04-19-2006, 5:14 PM
So if I buy a gun anywhere and reside in CA; I must ship it to and DROS it with a CA FFL?

There are a lot of places where there are more used guns available and the prices are sometime much lower. Plus it seems that the real reason for DROSing is so the state can ca$h in. You can still buy guns at garage sales in some states.
I am not a memeber of the NRA. I have had reasons for not joining but I suppose that it is my duty to join up now.

I spoke with a guy at SHOT show who said he has bought guns in a VA gun store with a FL drivers liscense and walked out with the gun that moment.
From what he told me it was totally legal.

bwiese
04-19-2006, 5:17 PM
You could (if your allowed to buy a gun by law) purchase a LONG gun only from a private seller out of state while traveling and bring it back. Long guns are not registered to a person and as long as your legal and it is legal you should not run into any issues

just a day or two ago EBWhite posted

I would not worry about that law of sending only to a licensed guy. You want work done, if its legit then you should not worry. Nothing will happen, nobody will get in trouble. I have spoke with Tom Sawyer guy, he is awsome, good prices and a nice nice guy. I wish i would have had him do my engraving instead of letting the late fools at superior do it. They are on my **** list right now. They refused to ship it to me in the white and let me send it back to coat it since its too much trouble for them- well they forgot my trouble of having to redros....Last time i shop with them.


Dammit, EBWhite will you STOP giving out incorrect info??

It seems that just about everytime you post, you post something in error that tells someone to do something illegal. I'd think you are trying to entrap someone, but for now I'll just blame it on youth and stupidity since you don't seem to have specific focus on encouraging federal or state crimes.

This is the 2nd time within maybe 3 days you've given out really bad info. You consistently tell people not to worry about possibly felonious behavior.

STFU if you don't know what you're talking about (which is obvious).


Bottom line: generally speaking, a CA resident CAN'T directly buy any guns from outside CA and all guns must go thru a CA FFL. This applies to long guns and handguns. I think it really extends to gifts/estate stuff too.

artherd
04-19-2006, 6:14 PM
Federal law says that persons may purchase a rifle out of state, but that out of state purchase must comply with all laws in their state of residence

This means that a Kentucky FFL would *somehow* have to do a California DROS background check, require a HSC for pistols, etc. even for PPTs!

So for all practical purposes, this limits CA residents to CA FFLs only.

EBWhite: you're flat out wrong.

EBWhite
04-19-2006, 6:15 PM
I'm not trying to entrap anyone. Why would you even think that?

It is not the government's business to regulate who i do business with (ie. a professional or personal gunsmith). I'm not doing anything wrong or anyone else is by sending a gun for work to be done with an unlicensed gunsmith (someone that doesnt want to pay outragous government fees). If I have a trustworthy guy who does great work, what does he need a license for and why can I not have him work on it? Bwiese, you sound like the city saying, ooh you need a permit to paint your house. Or to install another electrical outlet, get a permit buddy. I don't think so. Again, do what you feel you need to do.

In the case of purchasing an out of state firearm- i never said it was to the letter of the law- I simply said that while in another state, buying private party a LEGAL long gun is not a major problem as long guns are unregistered even when you DROS them. You can leave the long gun out of state or do what you want with it. Maybe not legal, but morally nothing is wrong with it- remember the govt is far from legal too! Anyways, do what you feel is right, I will do what i feel is right, and everyone else can decide which road to take.

And I am not stupid by the way. Leave your personal attacks home. Just because you are unwilling to bend an unconstitutional law that is almost unenforceable, and you are a scared individual, does not mean everyone else is.

billym
04-19-2006, 8:12 PM
Thanks for the info.

Mssr. Eleganté
04-19-2006, 10:27 PM
In the case of purchasing an out of state firearm- i never said it was to the letter of the law- I simply said that while in another state, buying private party a LEGAL long gun is not a major problem as long guns are unregistered even when you DROS them. You can leave the long gun out of state or do what you want with it. Maybe not legal, but morally nothing is wrong with it- remember the govt is far from legal too! Anyways, do what you feel is right, I will do what i feel is right, and everyone else can decide which road to take.

EBWhite, can you at least be more clear in your responses to requests for legal information on the forum? When folks come here to ask if something is legal and you tell them it is "OK" or "not a problem" they might get the idea that you mean it is legal. Even more so when you toss the word "legal" into your response a couple of times.

You tell the guy that if he is "legal" and the gun is "legal" then he should not "run into any issues", even though you now admit that you know such a transaction is against the law!

Just be honest in your responses. Maybe tell the guy "Although it might be against both state and federal law to purchase a gun from a private party out of state, I find nothing morally wrong with it."

Mssr. Eleganté
04-19-2006, 10:42 PM
As to the original question...

A California resident travelling out of state can buy C&R long guns that are at least 50 years old from a Licensed Dealer or Licensed Collector who is licensed in that state. The California resident does not need a C&R FFL to do this.

Here's why...

Federal law says FFL's can sell long guns to out of state residents as long as the transaction is legal in both states, and as long as the transaction takes place at the FFL's licensed premises.

California law says C&R long guns over 50 years old are exempt from the requirement to be transfered through a California Licensed FFL Dealer and be DROS'd, as long as neither party is a California Licensed FFL Dealer.

socalguns
04-20-2006, 12:37 AM
Seems to me NICS should satisfy DROS
(since DROS is there to satisfy NICS reqiurement,
and they're connected).


http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/oper-rpt/oper-rpt2001-2.htm

Long Gun Notification

The Long Gun Notification enhancement, implemented in July 2001, allows NICS to notify POC state agencies whenever a resident of their state is attempting to purchase a long gun out of state. Long Gun Notification is an electronic message from the NICS to a state via the NCIC. If a check comes through the NICS where the state of residence and state of purchase differ, the state of residence, if it has so elected, will be notified of the attempted purchase. Whether the background check has been initiated in a POC or a non-POC state does not impact the notification. This feature is desired by some states so that state-held databases, not accessible by the NICS or other state POC agencies, can be cross-referenced to ensure the purchaser's eligibility. The Long Gun Notification feature will allow a prospective firearm transferee's state of residence to notify the appropriate agency should state law prohibit the pending transfer. States desiring to take advantage of the Long Gun Notification feature of the NICS may request to be included in the program by written correspondence to the NICS Section.

EBWhite
04-20-2006, 1:16 AM
EBWhite, can you at least be more clear in your responses to requests for legal information on the forum? When folks come here to ask if something is legal and you tell them it is "OK" or "not a problem" they might get the idea that you mean it is legal. Even more so when you toss the word "legal" into your response a couple of times.

You tell the guy that if he is "legal" and the gun is "legal" then he should not "run into any issues", even though you now admit that you know such a transaction is against the law!

Just be honest in your responses. Maybe tell the guy "Although it might be against both state and federal law to purchase a gun from a private party out of state, I find nothing morally wrong with it."


You are absolutely correct and I should have worded it differently- thanks for an decent response unlike the one given by PC bwiese.

I assumed that already enough comments covered the law on the transaction- i just was giving the other option

I will try and be more clear next time ;)

accordingtoome
04-20-2006, 1:22 AM
Long guns are not registered to a person and as long as your legal and it is legal you should not run into any issues

i agree.. but i have a question. IF someone takes your shotgun and commits a crime with it. Leaves it at the scene can they trace it back to you ?

or another question

If im at the range with a shotgun / rifle thats Cali legal. AND for some reason the ATF does a raid or something.. i dunno just go with me on this.. is there a way they can run the numbers on the shotgun to see if i own it?

accordingtoome
04-22-2006, 6:49 AM
bump for question:confused:

If im at the range with a shotgun / rifle thats Cali legal. AND for some reason the ATF does a raid or something.. i dunno just go with me on this.. is there a way they can run the numbers on the shotgun to see if i own it?

PIRATE14
04-22-2006, 8:33 AM
bump for question:confused:

If im at the range with a shotgun / rifle thats Cali legal. AND for some reason the ATF does a raid or something.. i dunno just go with me on this.. is there a way they can run the numbers on the shotgun to see if i own it?

only to make sure it's not on a hot sheet stolen...........they have no record to see who owns it.....keep a reciept.

Crazed_SS
04-23-2006, 4:44 AM
bump for question:confused:

If im at the range with a shotgun / rifle thats Cali legal. AND for some reason the ATF does a raid or something.. i dunno just go with me on this.. is there a way they can run the numbers on the shotgun to see if i own it?

I think they can..

The ATF can get the serial # off the gun.. then contact the manufacturer and from there figure out what gunshop/seller/ffl/etc receieved the gun originally.. then they can go to the shop where the gun was sold and get the records from them about who they sold the gun to..

I could be wrong though..

Mssr. Eleganté
04-23-2006, 5:10 AM
I think they can..

The ATF can get the serial # off the gun.. then contact the manufacturer and from there figure out what gunshop/seller/ffl/etc receieved the gun originally.. then they can go to the shop where the gun was sold and get the records from them about who they sold the gun to..

I could be wrong though..

You are right. Although they would normally only do this kind of trace if they found the gun left at a crime scene and wanted to find out who the last owner was so they could connect the crime gun with a person. If they found a person with a gun and the gun wasn't listed as stolen in the NCIC computer then they would assume that person was the last owner. They wouldn't run the trace to connect the gun with a person because they already connected it to the person when they found him with it. And they wouldn't need to connect the gun with the person anyway because no crime was being committed.

And a trace from the manufacturer (or importer) to the last owner could hit a dead end anytime the firearm had been transfered between two unlicensed individuals and one of those individuals said they didn't remember who they sold it to or if one of them couldn't be found by BATFE.

EOD Guy
04-23-2006, 6:11 AM
As to the original question...

A California resident travelling out of state can buy C&R long guns that are at least 50 years old from a Licensed Dealer or Licensed Collector who is licensed in that state. The California resident does not need a C&R FFL to do this.

Here's why...

Federal law says FFL's can sell long guns to out of state residents as long as the transaction is legal in both states, and as long as the transaction takes place at the FFL's licensed premises.

California law says C&R long guns over 50 years old are exempt from the requirement to be transfered through a California Licensed FFL Dealer and be DROS'd, as long as neither party is a California Licensed FFL Dealer.

You are correct but it might be hard to find a dealer that would be aware of that or that would even deal with a California resident. You might find a collector that would sell a C&R rifle to you, though.