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cali-man
04-19-2006, 11:46 AM
These are the kind of guys that are going to get everyone into trouble. I came across this on AR15.com. He says it's a Stag lower that he just built. I don't think that is a 10 round mag unless my eyes deceive me. If your not going to keep it legal don't post it.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=278404

QuickOnTheDraw
04-19-2006, 11:52 AM
These are the kind of guys that are going to get everyone into trouble. I came accross this on AR15.com. He says it's a Stag lower that he just built. I don't think that is a 10 round mag unless my eyes deceive me. If your not going to keep it legal don't post it.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=278404

Some people just don't get it! But he will once he becomes a test case! wonder where the 30 round mag came from?

blacklisted
04-19-2006, 12:01 PM
There's no hope*. The longer this goes on, the more idiots buy these.

Keep in mind that this guy could have build and taken this picture out of state.

It appears that most people on ar15.com HATE this forum as well, and many hate that we are able to get lowers:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=229771


*The only hope is for the DoJ to hurry up and finish the list update.

phish
04-19-2006, 12:03 PM
It was only a matter of time before some bonehead does something like this. "snedigity" was already asked twice if his rifle is legal. I'm sure he'll reply: "iT wAs At My BuDdY's CrIb In ReNo yO" :rolleyes:

bwiese
04-19-2006, 12:05 PM
Some people just don't get it! But he will once he becomes a test case! wonder where the 30 round mag came from?

Darwin strikes again.

cali-man
04-19-2006, 12:11 PM
Some people just don't get it. I am glad I picked up a few Bushmaster lowers back in 1999. I also got me an AK clone from FEG back then just to plink for cheap. I do admit I picked up a few STAG lowers just in case. I aint getting my hopes up but there sitting in my safe stripped and untouched. Oh well what can you do. I have been getting more stares lately at the ranges since I shoot my 30 rounders. But when they walk up to check out the rifles they notice the Bushmaster logos on my lowers and they pay no more attention. I always carry my paperwork from when they got registered with the DOJ in 2000. Stay legal people.

PIRATE14
04-19-2006, 12:17 PM
AAAHHH!!!

Nice rifle though...

These things are bound to happen, hopefully he will ask for advice or what's up.......true maybe he was out of state and not out of his mind:eek:

phish
04-19-2006, 12:23 PM
This reminds me of that exercise we took in grade school. The teacher got the whole class in a circle and whispered a sentence to the first student. Then the sentence would be repeated back through the circle until it came to the last student, then the sentence would be repeated to check for degredation.

Signal degredation occurs naturally. I've got books ad nauseum explaining this. :D

blacklisted
04-19-2006, 12:39 PM
If there's something wrong with the receiver and/or transmitter, degradation is guaranteed.

cali-man
04-19-2006, 12:49 PM
I don't care what people build. Just dont mess it up for everyone that is trying to stay legal. I guess I was one of the smart ones and got in on the 1999 lower craze.:D

s u b k 0 r
04-19-2006, 1:00 PM
if someone wants to be an asshat - not my problem - it would add fuel to the fire under the DOJ's *** no? I don't feel responsible for morons and thier actions...

SC_00_05
04-19-2006, 1:38 PM
There's no hope*. The longer this goes on, the more idiots buy these.

Keep in mind that this guy could have build and taken this picture out of state.

It appears that most people on ar15.com HATE this forum as well, and many hate that we are able to get lowers:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=11&t=229771


*The only hope is for the DoJ to hurry up and finish the list update.
It's certainly not all of ar15.com. It's more like one or two posters.

PIRATE14
04-19-2006, 5:37 PM
It's certainly not all of ar15.com. It's more like one or two posters.

You give those guys too much credit.....especially in the hometown forum.

It's a shame cause ARFCOM kicked of here in CALI....right?

blkA4alb
04-19-2006, 5:48 PM
you guys do know that phish posted that rifle in the picture thread in the riflemans forum? phish is this your gun?

EDIT: whoops!! i didnt see the j/k at the bottom :) , ya coulda made it a little bigger.. :p

Justang
04-19-2006, 6:27 PM
If you're talking about me, Wimp... I'll Jap slap the stupid clean off of you.

Now move out of the way while the men handle business!

Did he really say that? WTF does that mean anyway? I'll jap slap the stupid clean off of you? LOL

RedBluff
04-19-2006, 6:43 PM
JMHO but why does it matter any way, the California DOJ has a liberal hard-on for anybody that loves weapons anyway.
Screw'em.
I'm thinking about getting one of them 30 round clips that only holds 10 just to piss'em off.

tpliquid1
04-19-2006, 7:47 PM
whats the # to the atf again>?

GW
04-19-2006, 7:47 PM
if someone wants to be an asshat - not my problem - it would add fuel to the fire under the DOJ's *** no? I don't feel responsible for morons and thier actions...
Exactly!
What he does is his own business up to and including slapping that rifle together and he can take whatever consequences that come. We're all big boys here and what that fellow does isn't going to cause anything that wasn't going to happen anyway.

phish
04-19-2006, 8:05 PM
whats the # to the atf again>?

They could care less unless he puts an auto sear in there.

let's not hate the player now

hate the game

;)

although posting that pic on the net wasn't the smartest thing to do

madjack956
04-19-2006, 8:24 PM
He's just trying to be cool.. the mag is photoshoped in..:eek:

UberPhLuBB
04-19-2006, 10:22 PM
He's just trying to be cool.. the mag is photoshoped in..:eek:

Funny you mention that... I did the exact same thing. Though I doubt that guy's is Photoshopped, it's a crappy picture, showing he has no photography skills.

http://home.earthlink.net/~uberphlubb/1911/223.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~uberphlubb/1911/223orig.jpg

floorance
04-19-2006, 10:41 PM
Honestly I could care less about this guy. I want him to get caught, if your a moron you get what you deserve. With the flood of BRD these days, I think people are getting too caught up in it. Sometimes seemingly forgetting that these AR's aren't toys and shouldn't be treated as such (too a certain degree). Its great that there are more gunowners, but I've been noticing more and more young owners out there, and judging by how they act, it seems that its their first firearm as well. I was at Angeles Shooting range 2 weeks ago, and this kid no older then 20 tries to set up next to me and begin shooting his Cal legal AR. That would be fine and all, but......I was in the PISTOL section shooting my sig!! I had to tell him the rifle range is at the end waaay down away from me. He didn't even know when he could setup his target :confused: (people where shooting while he wanted to go setup before I told him to stop). Ok..thats alll the responsible talk for the night, now all you guys show me your "tacticool" AR's :D

EBWhite
04-20-2006, 12:27 AM
Honestly I could care less about this guy. I want him to get caught, if your a moron you get what you deserve. With the flood of BRD these days, I think people are getting too caught up in it. Sometimes seemingly forgetting that these AR's aren't toys and shouldn't be treated as such (too a certain degree). Its great that there are more gunowners, but I've been noticing more and more young owners out there, and judging by how they act, it seems that its their first firearm as well. I was at Angeles Shooting range 2 weeks ago, and this kid no older then 20 tries to set up next to me and begin shooting his Cal legal AR. That would be fine and all, but......I was in the PISTOL section shooting my sig!! I had to tell him the rifle range is at the end waaay down away from me. He didn't even know when he could setup his target :confused: (people where shooting while he wanted to go setup before I told him to stop). Ok..thats alll the responsible talk for the night, now all you guys show me your "tacticool" AR's :D

Why you would want him to get caught?
He is doing NOTHING wrong other than breaking a BS law- Yes, a BS law that is unconstitutional.
He is not hurting anyone- I would not do this since i dont have the time or money to fight the battle but i give this guy credit for having the balls to post that. If this catches on, we are disliked either way so it doesnt matter if someone gets caught putting aw features on offlist lowers. It is their butt that will sit in jail but the rest of us who followed the law are still disliked.

Don't mix up this stupidity of breaking law with people who are morons. Guys using pistol ranges for AR's (unless its a pistol AR) or making the range dangerous do not belong in the same catagory....They are just plain stupid!

gh429
04-20-2006, 12:34 AM
I miss the wed. nights at Angeles. They still doing that?

Isn't it legal to use a 30rd mag-body as long as it's permanently altered to only accept 10 rds? That's what I'm planning on doing, I have a few mag bodies here...

KrazyKevy
04-20-2006, 2:28 AM
Isn't it legal to use a 30rd mag-body as long as it's permanently altered to only accept 10 rds? That's what I'm planning on doing, I have a few mag bodies here...

Thats exactly what I thought too. I mean seriously, that guy could have "possibly" altered the 30rd mag to only hold 10rds and welded the floor plate shut. And what is the big differance between a 30rd mag body than the 20rd mag body Bushmaster uses for 10rounders? I dont see anyone up in arms about the Bushmaster 20rd mag bodys. :confused:

Im not condoning anything illegal. Just want to know the true legalities to modifing a 30rd mag, or any other variation that im sure will come forward in the near future.

sac7000
04-20-2006, 4:48 AM
Some people just don't get it! But he will once he becomes a test case! wonder where the 30 round mag came from?

Looks can be deceiving. Look at the 10 round BM mag. Looks like a 20 round but isn't. Maybe the mag is only able to take 10 rounds, it would be fairly simple to modify if your handy with tools. Where does the law say a 10 round magazine has to look like a 10 magazine?

My 1.5 cents anyway.....

Mesa Tactical
04-20-2006, 5:30 AM
There's no hope*. The longer this goes on, the more idiots buy these.

Might well be part of the plan.

Would certainly help clean up legislation if you could present to the Legislature a bunch of these nimrods as Exhibit A.

tenpercentfirearms
04-20-2006, 5:34 AM
Who cares??? Warn the guy about the law and lets move on. I at least appreciate the civility on this board. The barg coming out of those guys posts at ARF makes me glad I never spend time there. Lets stop being nannies and worrying about what that guy is doing wrong. If the laws are too confusing for him to follow, then everything is going according to plan. The next Harrot is just around the corner.

guns_and_labs
04-20-2006, 7:57 AM
You know, in the ARFCOM post, where he tried to classify us into two groups, he missed a third. I didn't buy an AR-15 before 1999, because I didn't want one. I was having too much fun with long range precision bolt actions. But now that I've seen what our lovely legislators will do, i.e. first the black rifles, then the .50BMG's, then the limited prodcution handguns, then..., well, purchasing offlist lowers seems a relatively easy political statement.

Plus I hear that 6.5mm Grendel in a good AR-15 platform can rock with the best at 600+ yards.

brando
04-20-2006, 8:06 AM
Pre-ban mag?

phish
04-20-2006, 8:23 AM
funny how snedigitiy hasn't responded yet to his original thread

neutered 30 round mag?

that's like putting ketchup on prime rib

EBWhite
04-20-2006, 9:28 AM
If your fixing the magazine, according to the law, the magazine must only accept 10 rds! If your running a detach mag, go can go with a preban drum :-)

Gunsrruss
04-20-2006, 10:00 AM
funny how snedigitiy hasn't responded yet to his original thread

neutered 30 round mag?

that's like putting ketchup on prime rib

I built my two lowers as they were originally intended. But then I also have a Bushmaster that I use on the Match circuit. I took both out yesterday to the range to check out those triggers for doubling. Not once did I look over my shoulder. I know the law. But I don't need to take these things out in the public all the time. If I was to take one of the off list receivers to Coalinga and use it I'm sure one of you would see it and drop a load. You would grab your Soap box and stand on high to make your point. What you should be doing is saying to yourself "that I hope he knows what he is doing"? I do, and I accept all the risk.
You guys are Ok. It's just that some of you tend to think that everything you do is coming from the burning bush

phish
04-20-2006, 10:28 AM
won't hear anything from me

;)

I can just picture one of my rifle club members on his soap box right now. 30Cal and Matt-man feel me on this. :D

bwiese
04-20-2006, 10:29 AM
I built my two lowers as they were originally intended. But then I also have a Bushmaster that I use on the Match circuit. I took both out yesterday to the range to check out those triggers for doubling.

I'm inferring from the above you don't have a fixed mag. It's edifying that you've just admitted to multiple counts of 12280(a) felonies (two for manufacturing, two for transport of each unreg'd AW). That's in addition to the two PC 12280(b) unreg'd AW possession charges (escalated misdemeanors).

Within the span of an hour or two, an LEO or anyone with basic investigative skills can/will find out from your above post who you are, and where you're located.

So not only have you proved you're a bit obstinate, you've shown you're not too smart, either.

What you should be doing is saying to yourself "that I hope he
knows what he is doing"? I do, and I accept all the risk.

Then be prepared for prison time, a large fine, lifetime loss of firearms rights. Likely loss of job, and if you're married, you'll probably end up divorced, etc.

Not once did I look over my shoulder. I know the law. But I
don't need to take these things out in the public all the time.

Irrelevant. The gun attorney I spoke to said most (85+%) of AW busts are not during transit, but during LE visits to homes for any of a variety of domestic situations. (This means for non-domestic violence, etc too: if you have a troubled child, an aging parent, someone that gets sick, you have a fire or other emergency situation - these are all reasons LEOs can somenow end up in your house.)

An acquaintance of mine lost his AR10 due to such a situation above, and is very fortunate he didn't get charges filed. At least he had legally acquired the AW in CA but had not registered it (he was in Oregon during SB23 reg period). So unreg'd AW possession charge would only really apply. But here you've added manufacturing and transport charges.

BamBam-31
04-20-2006, 11:04 AM
Well, I'd think the JBT's have to have more than just forum postings to press charges. They'd prolly have to get their hands on said A.O.I. lowers first. Hey, who's that knocking on the door? :D

Gunsrruss
04-20-2006, 1:03 PM
Well, I'd think the JBT's have to have more than just forum postings to press charges. They'd prolly have to get their hands on said A.O.I. lowers first. Hey, who's that knocking on the door? :D

This is what I was talking about. I understand what he is saying. Again I accept full responsibility. I will not get my panty's in a knot over what other people do as long as they accept the responsibility for their actions. Bob needs to understand that he is not God's gift to the actions of other folks. Take a water pill Bob and relax. But if it will lessen your stress level I will take off the Grips

I honestly do not need these lowers, Now there DEBob'ed

bwiese
04-20-2006, 1:21 PM
This is what I was talking about. I understand what he is saying. Again I accept full responsibility. I will not get my panty's in a knot over what other people do as long as they accept the responsibility for their actions.

I honestly do not need these lowers, Now there DEBob'ed[/QUOTE]

Bob needs to understand that he is not God's gift to the actions of other folks.

It's Bill, not Bob, but no big thing.

And I'm certainly not 'God's gift', as I'm an agnostic/atheist/antiCreationist etc.

But hey, it's your life. What I don't want is others reading here to think this is a trivial traffic ticket kinda thing. And as long as you're into self-destructive habits, try a crack or meth habit and take up compulsive gambling.

I just don't like getting emails/PMs from folks, "Hey, do you know a good gun lawyer? I may have a problem..." - from folks that had asked me questions a few weeks earlier. (This is not referring to you.)

But I am beginning to rethink my stance on some of these AW matters. Maybe if we get a few self-sacrificial guys that don't do the right thing at the right time, the attention may speed/encourage DOJ to list - after all, "assault weapons" are supposed to be a problem "cured" 5+ years ago, right?

But if it will lessen your stress level I will take off the Grips

That may or may not cure legal problems - open magwell + telestock and/or flash hider is just as 'evil' as the pistol grip.

billym
04-20-2006, 1:33 PM
I know we all have oppinions here. But wasn't Bill one of the Pioneers of this whole lower thing. All I know is he has given the best, accurate and SAFEST advice on the subject.
I notice some of CG members feel as though they are OK ignoring or breaking the law. It is your choice of course but Bill is trying to keep some of the confused sheep from follow along with some dangerous attitudes. If you intend on breaking the law it should be a well informed and deliberate choice you made on your own. Some posts on CG have been dangerously misleading to other members.

And oh yea when I was a noob it was many of Bill's posts that helped me make an informed descision.
Thanks Bill.
B

Pappy91W
04-20-2006, 2:36 PM
Firstly, Phish and bwiese both had good things to say, however, I would like to point out that at the various ranges (which will remail nameless) I go to , I've seen quite a few of these new lowers built up as fully functional AR15s (NOT SB23 compliant) I can't in good concience bring myself to say ANYTHING negative to anyone doing this. YES, it is absolutely unlawful to do this (See manufacturing an assault weapon) and as bwiese pointed out, also felonious transportation of an unregistered assault weapon. However, I also understand that these are unconstitutional laws (Yet undeclared as unconstitutional) and there is the moral factor that many feel is a duty to disobey these "laws". They also do so at their own peril. Again, I can not fault those that do this. I **DO** think posting a pic of your non SB23 compliant unregistered AR15 on an internet gunboard where the Alphabet boys are CERTAIN to see is BEGGING for trouble.

Members, please, if you are going to defy the law as unjust as it is, don't draw attention to yourself, enjoy your rifle discretely, understand that by getting caught, you may be only HURTING the cause. Again, I understand how any of us can be motivated by the mere feeling of these opressive laws to build up fully functional AR's as we're surrounded by states where these fully functional rifles are a NON-issue in the law and yes, it's stupid as you cross an imaginary line drown down a map that changes everything. BUT, BEWARE and BE SMART.

For those blasting people for their build ups, it's not your place to comment against these people and your comments mark you as a sellout. This helps the cause HOW? It's not our place to tell any man what he can and cant do with these lowers/rifles in this respect when it is legal everywhere else but here.

That's all I really have to say on the matter, flame away.

30Cal
04-20-2006, 3:38 PM
won't hear anything from me

;)

I can just picture one of my rifle club members on his soap box right now. 30Cal and Matt-man feel me on this. :D

Not before 10:30 in the morning though. It's blissfully silent till then.

I enjoy watching people get nailed for being stupid in public (even if it does reflect poorly on all of us).

Ty

Gunsrruss
04-20-2006, 5:42 PM
Well Bill, I'm sorry I got your name wrong. It happens. You do have a loyal following. You must be well respected here on this board. But you need to understand that some of us make our own decisions and are responsible to our selves for those decisions. I have no intention of straping uppers on those lowers and blasting away at the countryside until the law changes. I took a few minutes the other day to make sure my build was good 15 rounds a piece. It was on my dime. It was not an attempt to tilt the ballance of power in the state of Kalifornia. So you all have a nice afternoon and evening, Cheers

phish
04-20-2006, 6:22 PM
check out the arfcom thread that started this whole thing...

:eek:

http://picsorban.com/upload/ohsnap11.gif

Gunsrruss
04-20-2006, 6:30 PM
To Cute, Phish

phish
04-20-2006, 6:31 PM
The credit goes to Snuffalo***us from the "put up or shut up" thread.

:D

Wild Bill
04-20-2006, 6:57 PM
Firstly, Phish and bwiese both had good things to say, however, I would like to point out that at the various ranges (which will remail nameless) I go to , I've seen quite a few of these new lowers built up as fully functional AR15s (NOT SB23 compliant) I can't in good concience bring myself to say ANYTHING negative to anyone doing this. YES, it is absolutely unlawful to do this (See manufacturing an assault weapon) and as bwiese pointed out, also felonious transportation of an unregistered assault weapon. However, I also understand that these are unconstitutional laws (Yet undeclared as unconstitutional) and there is the moral factor that many feel is a duty to disobey these "laws". They also do so at their own peril. Again, I can not fault those that do this. I **DO** think posting a pic of your non SB23 compliant unregistered AR15 on an internet gunboard where the Alphabet boys are CERTAIN to see is BEGGING for trouble.

Members, please, if you are going to defy the law as unjust as it is, don't draw attention to yourself, enjoy your rifle discretely, understand that by getting caught, you may be only HURTING the cause. Again, I understand how any of us can be motivated by the mere feeling of these opressive laws to build up fully functional AR's as we're surrounded by states where these fully functional rifles are a NON-issue in the law and yes, it's stupid as you cross an imaginary line drown down a map that changes everything. BUT, BEWARE and BE SMART.

For those blasting people for their build ups, it's not your place to comment against these people and your comments mark you as a sellout. This helps the cause HOW? It's not our place to tell any man what he can and cant do with these lowers/rifles in this respect when it is legal everywhere else but here.

That's all I really have to say on the matter, flame away.

Yeah what he said !!! :D

Scotty
04-20-2006, 8:55 PM
He already posted that he's military and living on federal property so it is legit.