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Flying Sig
07-21-2010, 8:30 AM
Well after 6000+ rounds, my Glock 23 had it's first malfunction. The problem was 2 FTF. The round chambered about half way and then the slide hung up. I was using factory reloads from Miwall. I have shot thousands of these rounds through this gun and this is the first malfunction. The gun hadn't been cleaned for probably 200 or so rounds so I don't think it was too dirty. I sure hope it was the ammo!

J-cat
07-21-2010, 8:33 AM
Could be the springs.

trob
07-21-2010, 8:36 AM
Could be the springs.

thats what i was thinkin

7x57
07-21-2010, 8:37 AM
Sorry, you are mistaken. Glocks don't malfunction. I read it on the internet. :D

7x57

Ducman
07-21-2010, 8:48 AM
Sorry, you are mistaken. Glocks don't malfunction. I read it on the internet. :D

7x57


This ;)

1911su16b870
07-21-2010, 8:49 AM
1911 mfg recommendation was change springs every 5000 rounds...I would recommend doing the same with my Glock. A spring kit will not cost as much as the peace of mind in a working firearm. Lastly, after any armorer work, make sure you run the firearm so that you know it is 100% reliable.

mif_slim
07-21-2010, 8:50 AM
Check the gun again, it might of not been a glock you were shooting...glocks never do that!

;)

Synergy
07-21-2010, 8:51 AM
Sorry, you are mistaken. Glocks don't malfunction. I read it on the internet. :D

7x57

Should have bought a 1911! <where is the "stirring the pot" smilie>:p

Cali-Shooter
07-21-2010, 8:57 AM
Should have bought a 1911! <where is the "stirring the pot" smilie>:p

Oh no, no more primitive vs. plastic wars

PositiveInfluence
07-21-2010, 8:59 AM
I heard that every time you say a Glock malfunctioned, God kills a kitten.

Flying Sig
07-21-2010, 9:16 AM
Haha! Nice.

I guess a spring kit is in order.

BamBam-31
07-21-2010, 9:33 AM
Could be the Miwall reloads. My old USP 40F choked on their .40 reloads all the time.

Gryff
07-21-2010, 9:55 AM
Try a new recoil spring.

I heard that every time you say a Glock malfunctioned, God kills a kitten.

He must have killed a bunch when my G17 kaboomed (and, no, I wasn't shooting reloads).

Fate
07-21-2010, 9:56 AM
Wow, glad it was only a nightmare. It WAS only a bad dream, right? :eek:

Ninja45
07-21-2010, 10:02 AM
Disassemble your Glock, do a chamber check for your reloads using your disassembled Glock barrel. Did the offending round go in and out of the chamber easily? If it didn't, your reloaded rounds are the culprit!

I do this on all my reloaded rounds. gives me peace of mind that my reloads are not "too fat or too long" for my particular pistol.

tbhracing
07-21-2010, 10:26 AM
I was using factory reloads from Miwall.

Problem solved- No more reloads.

sk8804
07-21-2010, 10:32 AM
was the gun lubed before this happened? I dont care if its a glock or not, i have seen them hang on factory loads when not lubricated after it had been sitting for a few weeks.

CSACANNONEER
07-21-2010, 10:32 AM
I know your problem. See here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=4652160#post4652160

Of course, don't forget to read the whole thread.

CSACANNONEER
07-21-2010, 10:36 AM
Problem solved- No more reloads.

I've had top shelf FACTORY ammo produce ruptured cases. So, not shooting reloads will not solve any problems. The only people who think it will either are crappy reloaders, buy from crappy reloaders or are just parrotting FUD they've heard on the internet. Hell, about 2 years ago, Remington put out a bunch of .223 without flash holes. This caused a lot of injuries and blew up a lot of firearms. At least I know that reloads have flash holes!

mif_slim
07-21-2010, 11:28 AM
^ lol, right on!

OneSevenDeuce
07-21-2010, 11:43 AM
I've had top shelf FACTORY ammo produce ruptured cases.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/runfuret/splitcase.jpg

Brand new Remington green box .45

The gun didn't skip a beat (SA 1911 GI), but I'm just saying.

ojisan
07-21-2010, 11:52 AM
Should have bought a 1911! <where is the "stirring the pot" smilie>:p

Right here:

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys%20Holidays/Halloween/WitchBrewsSmiley.gif

Yes, that's you in your purple-stripped troll hat.
:p


Could be the Miwall reloads. My old USP 40F choked on their .40 reloads all the time.

I had so many oversize Miwall .45 rounds that would not chamber back in the day that I never buy their ammo, no matter how cheap.
It is one of the reasons I started reloading....make your own cheap and reliable ammo.

I've had top shelf FACTORY ammo produce ruptured cases. So, not shooting reloads will not solve any problems. The only people who think it will either are crappy reloaders, buy from crappy reloaders or are just parrotting FUD they've heard on the internet. Hell, about 2 years ago, Remington put out a bunch of .223 without flash holes. This caused a lot of injuries and blew up a lot of firearms. At least I know that reloads have flash holes!

Yup.
I never heard about the Rem .223 without flash holes before.
That's not a happy thing!
:eek:

To the OP: Maybe a new recoil spring but use another brand(s) of ammo.

CSACANNONEER
07-21-2010, 11:55 AM
Yup.
I never heard about the Rem .223 without flash holes before.
That's not a happy thing!
:eek:

I learned about it on this forum. Several Calgunners lost their OLLs to the problem. I'm sure that if we had a decent search engine, it would not be hard to find an old thread or two about it.

tacticalcity
07-21-2010, 11:58 AM
Problem solved- No more reloads.

+1

To me it sounds like it was more than likely the ammo. The keyword "reloads" is a major red flag for me. I don't care if it was the factory or bubba. Heck, some times factory new ammo just won't get along with a particular firearm.

Regardless of the brand of firearm more often than not either bad ammo or bad shooting techniques cause malfunctions. There are times when they are mechanical, but that is less than 1% of the time. The rest of the time it is us doing something stupid or the ammo.

Things I see causing problems all the time that often get blamed on the gun when ammo or the shooter is to blame and the shooter refuses to except it.

1) Not hitting the target where expected
Gets blamed on the sights or the gun not pointing properly. Almost always poor trigger control.

2) Failure to fire, no round in chamber even though slide should have loaded the firearm.
Hear all kinds of excuses. Two main causes are top loading the magazines casuing the magazine to fail to seat properly and limp wristing the firearm due to fatigue so there is nothing to recoil against, the slide does not come far enough back and a round never gets loaded into the chamber. Solutions are simple. Short load by 2 rounds, and get back to basics with your grip, stance, and arm position. If the weaver push pull is not working, try the Isolese method of locking both arms all the way out. Usually solves the problem. FYI, small frame guns wear you out faster than full size frames.

3) Rounds fail to extract, double feeds.
Hear all kinds of excuses, almost always bad ammo. More often than not the shooter is using reloads. You save a few cents per round but drastically increase your risk of malfunctions, kabooms, and thus getting injured or killed. It just is not worth it. The solution is factory new ammo, finding a reliable brand/round type, and sticking with it. You may need to try out a few different brands and round types to find what works best.

4) Gun Kabooms
99.99% of the time bad ammo is to blame. 98.99% of the time the ammo are reloads. .01% of the time there is something wrong with the firearm that went unnoticed by the shooter either due to failure to inspect the firearm or because it was too small for the human eye to see it. Again, the solution is factory new ammo.

I'm sure there are more, but I cannot think of them right now.

Point being, it is almost never the gun. Our egos however find that very hard to accept. So the gun is the first thing we blame.

tacticalcity
07-21-2010, 12:09 PM
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f62/runfuret/splitcase.jpg

Brand new Remington green box .45

The gun didn't skip a beat (SA 1911 GI), but I'm just saying.

Its much more rare than with reloads. No one is saying there is 100% perfect solution. Just that the odds of something going wrong with factory new ammo is drastically lower than with reloads. Given some of the KABOOM pictures I've seen, it is just not worth the risk in order to save a cent or two per round. My hands, my face, and my life are worth the extra coin. Of course, I don't have to pay retail. So that helps.

stormy_clothing
07-21-2010, 12:09 PM
all guns break but for your effort you shall receive the Jane Velez Mitchell reward for dramatically over hyped nonsense.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_YTJBDUN8iSE/Swys3M3Xt4I/AAAAAAAACWE/_cchuSRbO0s/s400/issues-monkey-outrage.jpg

OneSevenDeuce
07-21-2010, 12:12 PM
Its much more rare than with reloads. No one is saying there is 100% perfect solution. Just that the odds of something going wrong with factory new ammo is drastically lower than with reloads.

No, I totally agree. Brass has a life span, and even if it is only fired once, it will have more of a potential to rupture than never fired brass. Er, usually anyway. I'm just saying that there is no guarantee that something like this wont happen. Reloaded, or factory.

CSACANNONEER
07-21-2010, 12:19 PM
No, I totally agree. Brass has a life span, and even if it is only fired once, it will have more of a potential to rupture than never fired brass. Er, usually anyway. I'm just saying that there is no guarantee that something like this wont happen. Reloaded, or factory.

I dissagree. I'd rather shoot once fired brass that has already PROVEN not to be defective than new brass which can have concealed defects. When it comes to .45acp, the brass life is longer than one can count. It is near impossible not to loose the brass before it is no longer useful. I figure 500-1000 reloads per case is not out of the question for .45acp.

garrett916
07-21-2010, 12:23 PM
ya i have heard of this before. This is the solution.... take your gun apart clean it then swiftly sell it on calguns to another glock nut and buy anything other than a glock

OneSevenDeuce
07-21-2010, 12:23 PM
I dissagree. I'd rather shoot once fired brass that has already PROVEN not to be defective than new brass which can have concealed defects. When it comes to .45acp, the brass life is longer than one can count. It is near impossible not to loose the brass before it is no longer useful. I figure 500-1000 reloads per case is not out of the question for .45acp.

Your first point seems like a decent argument. I could see why someone would rather shoot once fired. Your second point though, eh, I'm not so sure of.

advocatusdiaboli
07-21-2010, 1:16 PM
I dissagree. I'd rather shoot once fired brass that has already PROVEN not to be defective than new brass which can have concealed defects.

Flawed logic--the brass might be just one firing beyond failure the second time and the third time--kaboom. So factory new it didn't fail (i.e. the first time), was stressed near failure the second time but you think it's better, then ready to fail the third time. Metal fatigue probabilities increase with repeated stresses as engineers and material scientists know. It's like when your wife says "Can you open this jar for me please" and you do it easily and she then says "I loosened it for you!". You cannot measure probability of failure to the next stress by stressing something--you can only find failures that way.

It just probability, quality control, and stress fractures. the probabilities new brass will fail are lower than used brass but they are not zero

Flying Sig
07-21-2010, 1:21 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. I'm going to take it out this weekend and put it through the gauntlet with factory new stuff and see what happens.

I agree about not shooting reloads anymore, so does anyone want to buy a couple hundred rounds of Miwall .40?

;)

mif_slim
07-21-2010, 1:25 PM
You know...with your guys mind set to anything can happen, new or old, once fired or factory...anything can blow up...so, since you guys are so scared of shooting reloads and there are proven facts that even factory loads can go KABOOM...you guys should all quite shooting because you never know when the ammo will go kaboom. So be safe, dont shoot anymore, save the ammo for us who live our life on the line evertime we pull the trigger.

OneSevenDeuce
07-21-2010, 1:27 PM
You know...with your guys mind set to anything can happen, new or old, once fired or factory...anything can blow up...so, since you guys are so scared of shooting reloads and there are proven facts that even factory loads can go KABOOM...you guys should all quite shooting because you never know when the ammo will go kaboom. So be safe, dont shoot anymore, save the ammo for us who live our life on the line evertime we pull the trigger.

Like I said, despite the ruptured case my gun functioned flawlessly. I didn't even notice that the case had something wrong with it until after I finished shooting and was policing my brass. Didn't bother me none.

gose
07-21-2010, 1:35 PM
Its much more rare than with reloads. No one is saying there is 100% perfect solution. Just that the odds of something going wrong with factory new ammo is drastically lower than with reloads. Given some of the KABOOM pictures I've seen, it is just not worth the risk in order to save a cent or two per round. My hands, my face, and my life are worth the extra coin. Of course, I don't have to pay retail. So that helps.

If you're talking factory reloads, like the Miwall crap, then yes, I agree, stay away.

Ive probably reloaded well over 200k rounds, rifle and pistol, and I've never had any issues, which I cant really say for the factory ammo I've shot. In terms of actual numbers, I've had more issues with factory ammo than with my reloads and since I shoot 95-98% reloads, the relative numbers don't look good for the factory stuff.

Point being, yes, a majority of kabooms probably happen with reloads, but in the vast majority of cases it's because the reloader is sloppy, stupid or ignorant.

Not reloading because people that reload get kabooms is like not having sex because sloppy, stupid or ignorant people end up with unwanted pregnancies ;)

Flying Sig
07-21-2010, 1:48 PM
Yeah I guess I should have specified "factory reloads". I have 100% confidence in my personal hand loads.

HPGunner
07-21-2010, 1:59 PM
My Glock 17 had a couple of FTF problems with Miwall "New Brass" ammo when my Glock was semi-new with 500 rounds through it. I shot a bunch of other ammo and never an issue - even Miwall reloads. I noticed the batch of 9mm I had from Miwall had a few rounds that were a little swollen compared to factory new stuff from Winchester, Remington, Fiocci, S&B, PMC and others.

If I take the barrel out and drop a Miwall round into the chamber and tipped the barrel over the round wouldn't drop out without a shake - unlike other brands where the round would naturally just drop out. Much tighter fit on the Miwall because of the swollen casings.

I'd say it's the ammo - if you maintained your gun by cleaning it and changing the recoil spring every few thousand rounds. Especially on a Glock.

tacticalcity
07-21-2010, 2:21 PM
If you're talking factory reloads, like the Miwall crap, then yes, I agree, stay away.

Ive probably reloaded well over 200k rounds, rifle and pistol, and I've never had any issues, which I cant really say for the factory ammo I've shot. In terms of actual numbers, I've had more issues with factory ammo than with my reloads and since I shoot 95-98% reloads, the relative numbers don't look good for the factory stuff.

Point being, yes, a majority of kabooms probably happen with reloads, but in the vast majority of cases it's because the reloader is sloppy, stupid or ignorant.

Not reloading because people that reload get kabooms is like not having sex because sloppy, stupid or ignorant people end up with unwanted pregnancies ;)

This is pretty common response to my comments above.

The expert reloader always says "Hey, that doesn't apply to me. I reload like a pro."

To which I respond, "Very cool. You're the exception to the rule. There is always an exception to the rule."

Very few people shooting reloads, did the reloading themselves. Most found them dirt cheap online or got them from Bubba down the street. It is to those people to which my comments were directed.

If you have 100% confidence in your ability, good for you. You know your abilities, and the risks, and if you have zero doubt in your work then it is understandable for you to shoot your own reloads. Not only is it a way to save some money but it is a hobby you enjoy and it keeps ya busy. I have no problem with that.

It is when others put blind faith in your abilities, when they do not know you or your ability that it starts to become a pretty stupid move. For all they know, you're just another Bubba getting drunk in his shed while he reloads every spent casing he could find paying little to no attention to what he is doing. There are a lot more Bubbas and semi-Bubbas out there than there expert reloaders. Reloading is as much art as is it is science.

I would assume somebody who is an expert reloader would know better to than to blame the gun, before completely eliminating his ammo or his shooting techniques as possible causes first. Since he would have had plenty of experience diagnoising problems as he perfected his reloading abilities.

JTROKS
07-21-2010, 2:22 PM
Try a new recoil spring.





Yup! +1. 6000+ rounds calls for a new factory recoil spring/guide rod for the Glock.

CSACANNONEER
07-21-2010, 2:37 PM
This is pretty common response to my comments above.

The expert reloader always says "Hey, that doesn't apply to me. I reload like a pro."

To which I respond, "Very cool. You're the exception to the rule. There is always an exception to the rule."

Very few people shooting reloads, did the reloading themselves. Most found them dirt cheap online or got them from Bubba down the street. It is to those people to which my comments were directed.

If you have 100% confidence in your ability, good for you. You know your abilities, and the risks, and if you have zero doubt in your work then it is understandable for you to shoot your own reloads. Not only is it a way to save some money but it is a hobby you enjoy and it keeps ya busy. I have no problem with that.

It is when others put blind faith in your abilities, when they do not know you or your ability that it starts to become a pretty stupid move. For all they know, you're just another Bubba getting drunk in his shed while he reloads every spent casing he could find paying little to no attention to what he is doing. There are a lot more Bubbas and semi-Bubbas out there than there expert reloaders. Reloading is as much art as is it is science.

I would assume somebody who is an expert reloader would know better to than to blame the gun, before completely eliminating his ammo or his shooting techniques as possible causes first. Since he would have had plenty of experience diagnoising problems as he perfected his reloading abilities.

I guess we run in different circles. Most people I know who shoot reloads, roll them themselves.

dadoody
07-21-2010, 2:41 PM
Well after 6000+ rounds, my Glock 23 had it's first malfunction. The problem was 2 FTF. The round chambered about half way and then the slide hung up. I was using factory reloads from Miwall. I have shot thousands of these rounds through this gun and this is the first malfunction. The gun hadn't been cleaned for probably 200 or so rounds so I don't think it was too dirty. I sure hope it was the ammo!

Clean your gun and maintenance your springs.

Semi-Autos need regular spring maintenance. Kinda like how you have to change the timing belt in your car every 60-90k miles.

I've read that Glock original factory springs last a long time with standard pressure rounds; however, if you're having FTFs I think it's time to replace regardless.

Flying Sig
07-21-2010, 2:44 PM
I'm looking at new recoil springs and I'm just curious what's the buzz on after market metal guide rod types? (vs. OEM plastic guide rod)

elSquid
07-21-2010, 2:56 PM
I guess we run in different circles. Most people I know who shoot reloads, roll them themselves.

Yup. As evidence, just look at all the reloading gear available for retail sale. It's a very robust market.

I'd be curious in knowing how much reloading experience TacticalCity has.

I do know that reloading 44Mag saves a hell of a lot more than a cent or two a round. ;)

-- Michael

Noah3683
07-21-2010, 3:15 PM
I heard that every time you say a Glock malfunctioned, God kills a kitten.a Glock malfunctioned! a Glock malfunctioned! a Glock malfunctioned! a Glock malfunctioned! a Glock malfunctioned! a Glock malfunctioned! a Glock malfunctioned! a Glock malfunctioned! a Glock malfunctioned! a Glock malfunctioned! a Glock malfunctioned!:D

Shenaniguns
07-21-2010, 3:59 PM
Well after 6000+ rounds, my Glock 23 had it's first malfunction. The problem was 2 FTF. The round chambered about half way and then the slide hung up. I was using factory reloads from Miwall. I have shot thousands of these rounds through this gun and this is the first malfunction. The gun hadn't been cleaned for probably 200 or so rounds so I don't think it was too dirty. I sure hope it was the ammo!



Change your recoil spring about every 5,000 rounds to help prevent this, but it also could be a low powered reloads since Miwall reloads have felt light to me.

The only malfunction I've had with my Glock 34 was 1 FTF with a worn out (~6,000 rounds) ISMI 15# recoil spring and weak WWB 147gr ammo. Changed the recoil spring to a factory one and no more problems, never used that ammo again either. And with my new Glock 19 I had a squib with Remington UMC that cleared the barrel and barely cycled the slide.

Bad ammo will cause a malfunction with any gun whether it is new or reloaded.

BamBam-31
07-21-2010, 7:52 PM
This is pretty common response to my comments above.

The expert reloader always says "Hey, that doesn't apply to me. I reload like a pro."

To which I respond, "Very cool. You're the exception to the rule. There is always an exception to the rule."

Very few people shooting reloads, did the reloading themselves. Most found them dirt cheap online or got them from Bubba down the street. It is to those people to which my comments were directed.

If you have 100% confidence in your ability, good for you. You know your abilities, and the risks, and if you have zero doubt in your work then it is understandable for you to shoot your own reloads. Not only is it a way to save some money but it is a hobby you enjoy and it keeps ya busy. I have no problem with that.

It is when others put blind faith in your abilities, when they do not know you or your ability that it starts to become a pretty stupid move. For all they know, you're just another Bubba getting drunk in his shed while he reloads every spent casing he could find paying little to no attention to what he is doing. There are a lot more Bubbas and semi-Bubbas out there than there expert reloaders. Reloading is as much art as is it is science.

I would assume somebody who is an expert reloader would know better to than to blame the gun, before completely eliminating his ammo or his shooting techniques as possible causes first. Since he would have had plenty of experience diagnoising problems as he perfected his reloading abilities.

Your posts are normally spot on, but the one above makes a LOT of erroneous assumptions about reloaders and reloading in general. I can only assume that you don't reload.

tuna quesadilla
07-21-2010, 9:16 PM
Your posts are normally spot on, but the one above makes a LOT of erroneous assumptions about reloaders and reloading in general. I can only assume that you don't reload.

I can see where he's coming from though with the whole "most reload shooters didn't load those reloads" thing. Who do you think keeps companies like Miwall, Ammo Bros, etc in business? Any reloader worth his salt knows rule number one of reloading safety is NEVER SHOOT RELOADS OF UNKNOWN ORIGIN. But these companies are doing very well with reloaded ammo sales right now. Heck even my local range sells range-reloaded ammo by the case. There actually are people out there that think "Derp derp, cheaper products will work just the same, they'll just cost less money." They don't see the problem with using reloads that someone else manufactured, because all they see is that factory ammo costs $12/box whereas third-party reloads only cost $8/box.

kozumasbullitt
07-21-2010, 9:56 PM
I keep spare recoil rod and spring assemblies for all my glocks just in case, it's very cheap insurance.

Anchors
07-22-2010, 12:28 AM
I bet a 1911 set the Glock up out of jealousy.

(Jk, I like them both.)

BamBam-31
07-22-2010, 1:47 AM
I can see where he's coming from though with the whole "most reload shooters didn't load those reloads" thing. Who do you think keeps companies like Miwall, Ammo Bros, etc in business? Any reloader worth his salt knows rule number one of reloading safety is NEVER SHOOT RELOADS OF UNKNOWN ORIGIN. But these companies are doing very well with reloaded ammo sales right now. Heck even my local range sells range-reloaded ammo by the case. There actually are people out there that think "Derp derp, cheaper products will work just the same, they'll just cost less money." They don't see the problem with using reloads that someone else manufactured, because all they see is that factory ammo costs $12/box whereas third-party reloads only cost $8/box.

No, it's not his statements about non-reloaders buying reloads that I disagree with, it's statements like:

Very cool. You're the exception to the rule. There is always an exception to the rule.

and

There are a lot more Bubbas and semi-Bubbas out there than there expert reloaders. Reloading is as much art as is it is science.

that don't jive with me. Reloading is fairly straight-forward and simple, far more science than art. You don't see too many artists out there armed with calipers, powder scales, and chronos, eh? As such, it doesn't really take much to be a competent reloader, especially with pistol ammo. Of all the reloaders I know, from beginners to "experts," every one of them can crank out good quality pistol ammo w/ no problems. More rule than exception. Of course, as mentioned, you still have to pay attention to what you're doing. But it ain't rocket science and it sure as hell ain't voodoo. ;)

Corbin Dallas
07-22-2010, 7:14 AM
Haha! Nice.

I guess a spring kit is in order.


NO. Geez, why does everyone assume it's the gun and not the ammo?

MiWall has been well documented for producing crappy ammo batches.

Fail to fire? OMG, replace all the parts fast and it will never happen again!!!!


BULLSSSS...it!!!!

My G23 has almost 40,000 rounds down the pipe and guess what? I'm still running ALL the original springs (except the trigger because it broke).

Recoil spring - Still going strong
Firing spring - Original


What could it be? Pick one.

- Reload out of spec and did not fully chamber (out of battery)
- Hard primer
- Limp wrist (Fail to Feed)

Did you drop the hammer and nothing happened?
Did you rack the round out and inspect the primer? Was it dented?

If dented - Hard primer
If untouched - Out of battery / Fail to feed

Get to the REAL cause and then figure out what to do.

My guess is that the problem is NOT the firearm but the reloaded ammo from MiWall.

This from a guy who has a G17,19,21,22,23(x2), and 27 and has sold a G19,26,29,30,30SF,34,36, and 38.

You can see, I like glocks.

J-cat
07-22-2010, 7:47 AM
What could it be?

Magazine spring, for one. Just because YOUR springs are fine don't mean HIS springs are. Not all guns are the same. Not all springs are the same.

Shenaniguns
07-22-2010, 8:10 AM
NO. Geez, why does everyone assume it's the gun and not the ammo?

MiWall has been well documented for producing crappy ammo batches.

Fail to fire? OMG, replace all the parts fast and it will never happen again!!!!


BULLSSSS...it!!!!

My G23 has almost 40,000 rounds down the pipe and guess what? I'm still running ALL the original springs (except the trigger because it broke).

Recoil spring - Still going strong
Firing spring - Original


What could it be? Pick one.

- Reload out of spec and did not fully chamber (out of battery)
- Hard primer
- Limp wrist (Fail to Feed)

Did you drop the hammer and nothing happened?
Did you rack the round out and inspect the primer? Was it dented?

If dented - Hard primer
If untouched - Out of battery / Fail to feed

Get to the REAL cause and then figure out what to do.

My guess is that the problem is NOT the firearm but the reloaded ammo from MiWall.

This from a guy who has a G17,19,21,22,23(x2), and 27 and has sold a G19,26,29,30,30SF,34,36, and 38.

You can see, I like glocks.


Did you even read the first post? He had a fail to FEED. :rolleyes:

Corbin Dallas
07-22-2010, 8:20 AM
Magazine spring, for one. Just because YOUR springs are fine don't mean HIS springs are. Not all guns are the same. Not all springs are the same.

I would agree if it was every round. Just one round in the middle, top or bottom of a magazine does not mean the spring is bad.

Limp wristing the firearm can cause the same problem.

Incorrect COA (too long) can also cause it.

Corbin Dallas
07-22-2010, 8:22 AM
Did you even read the first post? He had a fail to FEED. :rolleyes:

Really? I don't see "FEED" anywhere in the first post...

OH, FTF!! Fail to fire? Fail to feed? From the description I guess you're right. Fail to feed...

Well after 6000+ rounds, my Glock 23 had it's first malfunction. The problem was 2 FTF. The round chambered about half way and then the slide hung up. I was using factory reloads from Miwall. I have shot thousands of these rounds through this gun and this is the first malfunction. The gun hadn't been cleaned for probably 200 or so rounds so I don't think it was too dirty. I sure hope it was the ammo!

Again, I contend it is the ammo and NOT the weapon.

Flying Sig
07-22-2010, 8:25 AM
NO. Geez, why does everyone assume it's the gun and not the ammo?

MiWall has been well documented for producing crappy ammo batches.

Fail to fire? OMG, replace all the parts fast and it will never happen again!!!!


BULLSSSS...it!!!!

My G23 has almost 40,000 rounds down the pipe and guess what? I'm still running ALL the original springs (except the trigger because it broke).

Recoil spring - Still going strong
Firing spring - Original


What could it be? Pick one.

- Reload out of spec and did not fully chamber (out of battery)
- Hard primer
- Limp wrist (Fail to Feed)

Did you drop the hammer and nothing happened?
Did you rack the round out and inspect the primer? Was it dented?

If dented - Hard primer
If untouched - Out of battery / Fail to feed

Get to the REAL cause and then figure out what to do.

My guess is that the problem is NOT the firearm but the reloaded ammo from MiWall.

This from a guy who has a G17,19,21,22,23(x2), and 27 and has sold a G19,26,29,30,30SF,34,36, and 38.

You can see, I like glocks.


God forbid that I replace an $8 recoil spring.

If you read my post you will see that it was a feed issue NOT a failure to fire. This is my primary carry weapon that is on my person daily. If you trust your life to your 40K+ round count springs, well good for you. I don't. To me it seems irresponsible to not perform preventative maintenance on a defensive weapon.

Paper targets don't shoot back so I'm sure you had nothing to worry about when your trigger spring broke.

Corbin Dallas
07-22-2010, 8:31 AM
God forbid that I replace an $8 recoil spring.

If you read my post you will see that it was a feed issue NOT a failure to fire. This is my primary carry weapon that is on my person daily. If you trust your life to your 40K+ round count springs, well good for you. I don't. To me it seems irresponsible to not perform preventative maintenance on a defensive weapon.

Paper targets don't shoot back so I'm sure you had nothing to worry about when your trigger spring broke.

Actually I did. I was in the middle of an IDPA competition.

I never said that I don't keep spare parts with me, I said the problem was with your ammo, not your gun.

My problem is people are so fast to change the firearm parts as the cause of the problem instead of investigating the real issue.

Also, my point about round count is springs last longer than you think. I know that the Glock Armourers course recommends spring replacement at 5000 intervals. If you're life depends on it, then by all means, replace as necessary.

BTW, if your LIFE depends on your firearm, stop using MiWall reloads.

Flying Sig
07-22-2010, 8:37 AM
BTW, if your LIFE depends on your firearm, stop using MiWall reloads.


Haha! I know you can't be that obtuse. Funny though

HighLander51
07-22-2010, 8:38 AM
The recoil spring is easy to check. Empty gun, rack slide, pull trigger and hold trigger in. point straight up and pull slide out of battery while holding trigger. If the slide does not return on itís own, replace the spring, if it does return, itís not the spring. G21ís are slightly more sluggish to return than the small frame Glocks.

Corbin Dallas
07-22-2010, 9:08 AM
Haha! I know you can't be that obtuse. Funny though

I'm not the one who said their life depended on their weapon. You did. And if this is true, I certainly would not depend on MiWall reloads, which you were using when your weapon failed.

Also, good training will help you through those times when a FTF (feed or fire) occurs.

Tap, rack, bang.

Flying Sig
07-22-2010, 9:20 AM
I'm not the one who said their life depended on their weapon. You did. And if this is true, I certainly would not depend on MiWall reloads, which you were using when your weapon failed.

Also, good training will help you through those times when a FTF (feed or fire) occurs.

Tap, rack, bang.


Wow. I guess I was wrong.


I guess I can't shoot Winchester white box or American eagle rounds either? I don't carry them defensively either but I shoot a lot of them. I guess I'll start doing ALL my training with my defensive rounds. If you really think that i am carrying Miwall reloads defensively, well, i don't even need to say it



Go troll some other thread.

J-cat
07-22-2010, 9:32 AM
I would agree if it was every round. Just one round in the middle, top or bottom of a magazine does not mean the spring is bad.

Limp wristing the firearm can cause the same problem.

Incorrect COA (too long) can also cause it.

When I bought my new USP several years ago, the mag springs were weak and the slide would not lock back after the last shot within 500 rounds. The gun then started to FTF with Winchester Ranger factory rounds. The FTF were the first, last and any round inbetween. The springs fealt like the wire lost its tension. I replaced the springs with Wolf extra power units and all the issues went away.

Corbin Dallas
07-22-2010, 10:06 AM
Wow. I guess I was wrong.


I guess I can't shoot Winchester white box or American eagle rounds either? I don't carry them defensively either but I shoot a lot of them. I guess I'll start doing ALL my training with my defensive rounds. If you really think that i am carrying Miwall reloads defensively, well, i don't even need to say it



Go troll some other thread.

WWB is factory ammo. American Eagle is factory ammo.

Step off your high horse son. If you cannot take constructive critisim, maybe it's you that should go somewhere else.

You posted you had an issue with your weapon. I stated that it was the ammo that is the issue as MiWall does not have a great reputation with their reloads.

You stated you needed to rely on your firearm for your life. If this is true then by all means, replace your springs.


And to be completely honest, yes you should train with defensive rounds from time to time (READ NOT ALL THE TIME). MiWall reloads (the ones MiWall actually reloads) are weak in power. Train all you want with the reduced recoil rounds, just know when it's time to run a double tap with some Federal XST or similar, felt recoil is going to be 10 fold more.

Hell, for that matter, if you're tring to save money, why don't you practice with a 22 instead of your 40S&W. My guess is you are smarter than that and train with a similar round as you would use defensively.


I train with bear creek bullets. Yes, moly coated lead. I shoot 10k a year or more depending on time. I try to load these close to factory ammo as I can, but loading lead to factory specs is another story. I do however, train with factory Federal (DHS/Sheriff) ammo when I can.


So, I guess the bottom line is do whatever you please. Just don't sugar coat your reasonings as "life dependant", "springs are cheap" etc...

Your problem is not the gun, it is the ammo.

If you were running WWB or AE and this happened, I would have told you to look into your recoil spring and check the feed lips of the magazine.

But you were not running WWB or AE. You were using MiWall reloads.

I've run thousands of MiWall's, right up to the day I bought a case of 40S&W that was not crimped properly and ended up real close to a Kb from bullet setback.

That's the day I started buying my reloading equipment and never looked back.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Corbin Dallas
07-22-2010, 10:09 AM
When I bought my new USP several years ago, the mag springs were weak and the slide would not lock back after the last shot within 500 rounds. The gun then started to FTF with Winchester Ranger factory rounds. The FTF were the first, last and any round inbetween. The springs fealt like the wire lost its tension. I replaced the springs with Wolf extra power units and all the issues went away.

I would have contacted HK for a replacement magazine or spring as this should not have happened with a new firearm. Although replacing the spring fixed your issue, the USP is expensive and should run properly out of the box.

Just my .02

MaxPower
07-22-2010, 11:15 AM
Flawed logic--the brass might be just one firing beyond failure the second time and the third time--kaboom. So factory new it didn't fail (i.e. the first time), was stressed near failure the second time but you think it's better, then ready to fail the third time. Metal fatigue probabilities increase with repeated stresses as engineers and material scientists know. It's like when your wife says "Can you open this jar for me please" and you do it easily and she then says "I loosened it for you!". You cannot measure probability of failure to the next stress by stressing something--you can only find failures that way.

It just probability, quality control, and stress fractures. the probabilities new brass will fail are lower than used brass but they are not zero

+1 I couldn't agree with you more. As an engineer, I could not believe what I as reading in the post you responded to. It made absolutely no sense.

CSACANNONEER
07-22-2010, 1:13 PM
I would agree if it was every round. Just one round in the middle, top or bottom of a magazine does not mean the spring is bad.

Limp wristing the firearm can cause the same problem.

Incorrect COA (too long) can also cause it.

I had a Wilson Combat mag that ALWAYS FTF only one round in the middle of the mag. This only happened with one profile of bullet. So, It could easily be the mag.

+1 I couldn't agree with you more. As an engineer, I could not believe what I as reading in the post you responded to. It made absolutely no sense.

So, you would rather use unproven .45acp brass than once fired? Maybe you are not a reloader or just don't understand that the relatively low pressure of a .45acp does not work the brass much. Sorry you can't make sense of my posts. I have only reloaded a few hundred thousand rounds and my engineering degree is fron Cal Poly (SLO of course:D) so, it's obviously inferior to yours. If you care to explain what part made no sense to you, I will try to clarify it.

CSACANNONEER
07-22-2010, 4:11 PM
MaxPower,

I am thinking that you are questioning my thoughts on how many reloads one can get out of a .45acp case. If that's the issue, let's get together and find out. If you are willing to come up here, I'll supply some meat to BBQ, diet cola, a Glock 21 (just to stress the brass a bit more), powder, primers, bullets, etc. All I'd ask is for you to bring 2 or 3 rounds of factory .45acp brass to start with. We can set up a press and keep reloading and firing them all day long or, until we loose them or they fail. I'd love to do it by myself but, I'd rather have a witness. So, wadda say? Oh yea, if you're a metalurgist, is there any equipment that you can bring to run tests on the brass?

stix213
07-22-2010, 5:03 PM
Glock manual says shooting reloads voids the warranty :p

CSACANNONEER
07-22-2010, 5:07 PM
Glock manual says shooting reloads voids the warranty :p

My Glock was a rental and we sold reloads for all our rentals. I really don't care about their warranty anyway. All manufactures have the same clause for legal reasons. Kimber rebuilt one of my CDPIIs even after I told Winslow (in person) that I'd shot over 25K rounds of my reloads through it. My total cost was one way shipping to them. They even replaced the night sites for free!

resident-shooter
07-22-2010, 5:09 PM
Some say that its slide spring has to be changed after 5000 rounds, others however say that 1911 ownz it.... but all we know, his name is Glawck :D

stix213
07-22-2010, 5:24 PM
My Glock was a rental and we sold reloads for all our rentals. I really don't care about their warranty anyway. All manufactures have the same clause for legal reasons. Kimber rebuilt one of my CDPIIs even after I told Winslow (in person) that I'd shot over 25K rounds of my reloads through it. My total cost was one way shipping to them. They even replaced the night sites for free!

I was trolling if you didn't catch that part :D

CSACANNONEER
07-22-2010, 5:28 PM
I was trolling if you didn't catch that part :D

Well, I was too. I really don't care about my G21. In fact, I bought it just to have something for new shooters to compare to my 1911s. No one has ever still wanted to buy a Glock after shooting my 1911s and my Glock side by side.

dennab
07-25-2010, 1:20 AM
So, you have a .0003% FTF rate with your Glock. Big deal.

Delete post.

BigDogatPlay
07-25-2010, 1:34 AM
Wait.... am I to understand a Glock malfunctioned?

Has the media been alerted?

:D