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Anchors
07-19-2010, 11:57 AM
I just got off the phone with my shop in Arizona and he called his distributor to see if he could get me a Gen 4 G19.
He said the distributor told him the only one they have left has night sights and that Glock isn't shipping anymore rough textured frames, including the Gen 4 and that they're discontinued.

Anyone else heard this?

Sorry if this is a dupe.

Anyway, should I get the G19 Gen 4 with night sights for $599?
He wants me to pay for it now though, even though I won't be in town until August 8th (I assume because it's kind of like a special order situation.)
I could just wait until I get there and try to find a normal one for about $525, another shop says they have them, but they come and go pretty fast.

civilsnake
07-19-2010, 12:00 PM
I'm guessing the RTF2 pistols are discontinued, not Gen4s. I didn't even think the Gen4 G19s were available yet. I thought it was just the G17 and 22.

civilsnake
07-19-2010, 12:00 PM
And no, don't overpay just to have it now. It will be widely available later.

DaveFJ80
07-19-2010, 12:33 PM
Gen 4 G19's have been out for a little while now. Lots of threads on GlockTalk with people posting pics & range reports from their Gen 4 G19. I haven't looked into the prices of them, but most likely they'll probably around a similar price as what you could get the Gen 3's for a year ago, or similar to the Gen 4 G17's.

Like the other person said, the RTF Gen 3 models may have been discontinued and the salesman you spoke with may have been confused thinking the RTF model was a Gen 4.

Anchors
07-19-2010, 12:54 PM
He was actually pretty upset about the Gen 4 when he talked to me.
What is the standard price on G19 Gen 4?

Better than $525?

OneSevenDeuce
07-19-2010, 1:04 PM
RTF 3 has been confused with Gen 4 before, because before the actual Gen 4s came out the RTF 3 was commonly referred to as a Gen 4 by consumers.

civilsnake
07-19-2010, 1:29 PM
$525 is a good price.

XYZ
07-19-2010, 1:34 PM
RTF 3 has been confused with Gen 4 before, because before the actual Gen 4s came out the RTF 3 was commonly referred to as a Gen 4 by consumers.


The Gen4 has the RTF3 finish. The RTF2 is what some people would accidentally refer to as the Gen4 (or Gen3.5).

Is the OP in the SoCal area? These aren't on the list yet unless you're LE or doing a PPT. If you have a GSSF discount the price is $425 but not sure about the Gen4's. I'll check it out.

donbing
07-19-2010, 3:42 PM
Just got this from one of the commercial Glock distributors...

1. OD Guns will no longer be a part of the production line
2. RTF 2 guns will only be available for law Enforcement purchases once GLOCK, Inc. inventory is depleted.
3. Commercial pistols will only be available with fixed sights except the 34/35 which will be shipped with ADJ sights only
4. Commercial program contracts will be updated shortly
5. All orders in house will be filled as to production schedules

No mention of the Gen 4 but sounds like RTF is going to be LEO (at least that's what Glock wants) even though it's on the Ca list.

AlliedArmory
07-19-2010, 5:37 PM
Well, if it is true, good thing I pickup my Gen4 G17 Friday!!!

Malthusian
07-19-2010, 5:52 PM
Gen 4 has ambidextrous mag release and dual recoil spring
The barrel has an additional area cut out for the larger spring. The frame is supposedly beefed up near the
dust cover and is wider at this area for the recoil spring
In addition to the RTF

I saw a Glock 21 Gen 4, but I do not remember if it had the "Gen 4" on the slide
It definitely had the ambidextrous mag release and it was an LEO version
At the time I did not know that it was not on the roster.

Anchors
07-19-2010, 6:14 PM
The Gen4 has the RTF3 finish. The RTF2 is what some people would accidentally refer to as the Gen4 (or Gen3.5).

Is the OP in the SoCal area? These aren't on the list yet unless you're LE or doing a PPT. If you have a GSSF discount the price is $425 but not sure about the Gen4's. I'll check it out.

I am a resident of Arizona and California.
A shop in AZ has them for $525 shipped (or in person.)
Let me know about the GSSF, I'll join for $35 to get $100 off!

Malthusian
07-19-2010, 6:36 PM
Was sarcastically told on another thread to see if Gen 4 was on the list, was to look. The DOJ list does not make any reference to Generation of Glock. I have read that the Gen4 Glock was denied and will not be available in CA except to LEO

Uhhlexxxis
07-19-2010, 6:41 PM
I have read that the Gen4 Glock was denied and will not be available in CA except to LEO

:D

what was the reasoning behind this? checking google now...

Malthusian
07-19-2010, 6:46 PM
Did not get the reason. I have been trying to validate the Gen 4 information for a few weeks. One thread cited minor cosmetic changes allowed it to be on the roster. But Glock would still pay the $200 fee per model. Another thread cited no magazine disconnect and that the listing was denied. Internals are not the same as the Gen 3.

I will see if I can find the two opposing threads

Here is the other thread about the denial: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=306331

The Glock Armorer the the GSSF match at Yolo in March said that the Gen4 Glocks had been denied roster certification. I expect CGF to be able to topple the roster eventually, but at the moment the options are:

1. Single shot conversion - probably the most expensive and labor intensive way

2. PPT from a person who is exempt from the roster (LEO)

3. PPT from a new resident who moved to CA with a Gen4

4. If you have a parent, grandparent, child or grandchild in another state, they can buy a Gen4 and transfer it to you with an intrafamiliar transfer.


Another post from the same thread:

The Gen4 Glocks have the RTF3 texture.

3rd generation Glocks have the RTF or RTF2 texture.

When the RTF2 Glocks were released some dealers were calling them the 4th generation Glocks. They are wrong.

The Gen4 Glocks are marked 'Gen4' on the slide and 'MBS' on the frame.

XYZ
07-19-2010, 7:15 PM
I am a resident of Arizona and California.
A shop in AZ has them for $525 shipped (or in person.)
Let me know about the GSSF, I'll join for $35 to get $100 off!

Here's another thread in this forum about the GSSF discount:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=322828

I know a GSSF dealer in the San Jose area the cost for a G19, tax and DROS is $495 OTD. Someone mentioned though they are having a special next month for $399:

Supposedly they're doing 399.99 Glocks in the month of August. though I think it only applies for LE.. lucky me :p I'll have to call just to make sure. 495 after it's all said and done sounds about right and is a killer deal.

I'm not sure if this is specific for this shop but you may want to check with your local GSSF dealer to see if this rate is also available for your area. Call this number to locate the local GSSF dealers. This is from the GSSF site.

For locations, please contact GLOCK Customer Service at 770-432-1202 or GSSF at 770-437-4718.

BenjaminCA
07-19-2010, 7:38 PM
My local shop just told me that RTF2 Models would no longer be available, Lucky for me I just picked up my G17 RTF. 7 more days...

Anchors
07-19-2010, 8:21 PM
Was sarcastically told on another thread to see if Gen 4 was on the list, was to look. The DOJ list does not make any reference to Generation of Glock. I have read that the Gen4 Glock was denied and will not be available in CA except to LEO

It doesn't really apply here, since I'll be buying it in Arizona and registering it with the CA DOJ.

Here's another thread in this forum about the GSSF discount:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=322828

I know a GSSF dealer in the San Jose area the cost for a G19, tax and DROS is $495 OTD. Someone mentioned though they are having a special next month for $399:



I'm not sure if this is specific for this shop but you may want to check with your local GSSF dealer to see if this rate is also available for your area. Call this number to locate the local GSSF dealers. This is from the GSSF site.

For locations, please contact GLOCK Customer Service at 770-432-1202 or GSSF at 770-437-4718.

That is awesome!
Thanks man I'll check that out.
Even if I get the Gen 4 G19.
I wouldn't mind having a Gen 3 :]

ke6guj
07-19-2010, 9:18 PM
:D

what was the reasoning behind this? checking google now...

Did not get the reason. I have been trying to validate the Gen 4 information for a few weeks. One thread cited minor cosmetic changes allowed it to be on the roster. But Glock would still pay the $200 fee per model. Another thread cited no magazine disconnect and that the listing was denied. Internals are not the same as the Gen 3.


OK, the way it works is there is a method that a manufacturer can submit a handgun to be listed on the roster because it is basically the same as an existing rostered model.

12131.5. (a) A firearm shall be deemed to satisfy the requirements of subdivision (a) of Section 12131 if another firearm made by the same manufacturer is already listed and the unlisted firearm differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the following features:
(1) Finish, including, but not limited to, bluing, chrome-plating, oiling, or engraving.
(2) The material from which the grips are made.
(3) The shape or texture of the grips, so long as the difference in grip shape or texture does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.
(4) Any other purely cosmetic feature that does not in any way alter the dimensions, material, linkage, or functioning of the magazine well, the barrel, the chamber, or any of the components of the firing mechanism of the firearm.
(b) Any manufacturer seeking to have a firearm listed under this section shall provide to the Department of Justice all of the following:
(1) The model designation of the listed firearm.
(2) The model designation of each firearm that the manufacturer seeks to have listed under this section.
(3) A statement, under oath, that each unlisted firearm for which listing is sought differs from the listed firearm only in one or more of the ways identified in subdivision (a) and is in all other respects identical to the listed firearm.
(c) The department may, in its discretion and at any time, require a manufacturer to provide to the department any model for which listing is sought under this section, to determine whether the model complies with the requirements of this section.

The existing Glocks fell under this, and When Glock submitted some of the SF and RTF models to CADOJ for roster listing, they were able to use the 12131.5 exemption and not have to include the newer requirements such as the LCI and mag disconnect. However, some versions of the newer models that had an ambidextrous mag release were deemed different enough to not fall under that exemption and were not rostered. The same thing happened when Glock submitted the Gen4's. CADOJ told them that they were too different from the already rostered Glocks and did not fall under 12131.5. Because of that, they would have to go through the roster testing, and would need to have an "acceptable" LCI and mag disconnect. So, until Glock comes out with a CA-specific Gen4, they won't be on the roster unless something wierd happens.

Blackhawk556
07-19-2010, 9:36 PM
in reality it is $535 OTD right? because of the $35 to going GSSF
Originally Posted by XYZ
Here's another thread in this forum about the GSSF discount:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=322828

I know a GSSF dealer in the San Jose area the cost for a G19, tax and DROS is $495 OTD. Someone mentioned though they are having a special next month for $399:



I'm not sure if this is specific for this shop but you may want to check with your local GSSF dealer to see if this rate is also available for your area. Call this number to locate the local GSSF dealers. This is from the GSSF site.

For locations, please contact GLOCK Customer Service at 770-432-1202 or GSSF at 770-437-4718.

Noah3683
07-19-2010, 9:44 PM
OK, the way it works is there is a method that a manufacturer can submit a handgun to be listed on the roster because it is basically the same as an existing rostered model.



The existing Glocks fell under this, and When Glock submitted some of the SF and RTF models to CADOJ for roster listing, they were able to use the 12131.5 exemption and not have to include the newer requirements such as the LCI and mag disconnect. However, some versions of the newer models that had an ambidextrous mag release were deemed different enough to not fall under that exemption and were not rostered. The same thing happened when Glock submitted the Gen4's. CADOJ told them that they were too different from the already rostered Glocks and did not fall under 12131.5. Because of that, they would have to go through the roster testing, and would need to have an "acceptable" LCI and mag disconnect. So, until Glock comes out with a CA-specific Gen4, they won't be on the roster unless something wierd happens.

And as Glock told me in an e-mail they have zero intention of making a CA model to submit fro rostering. So hold your breath for a PPT or the roster to fall.
Noah, Thank you for your inquiry regarding Glock 19 and 23 RTF2 models, and the new Gen4 Glock pistols. We are sorry, but the low popularity of the 19/23 RTF2 platform doesn't justify the ridiculous hoops the state of California requires for handgun rostering. Glock also does not intend to produce any CA compliant Gen4 models at this time, or any distant future. Once again, the costs of these modifications and rostering fees make it unfeasible to do at this time. Thank you for contacting Glock Customer Support.

Regards,
David Allen
Sales Representative

XYZ
07-19-2010, 10:21 PM
in reality it is $535 OTD right? because of the $35 to going GSSF

That depends. If you purchased a 1 year membership this year, that would be correct. Last year the GSSF price was $389. A lifetime membership, depending on how often you purchase/swap out your Glocks would be a different cost. It all depends on the membership you purchased, when you purchaseed it and how often you purchase a Glock so it is tough to give a the final cost. Also, GSSF adjusted their program this year where in years past they offered three magazines as opposed to just two now. It's a great price for a new gun. Also, there are some vendors that offer a GSSF membership with the purchase of a new Glock so that can also throw off the final price.

Anchors
07-20-2010, 12:18 AM
And as Glock told me in an e-mail they have zero intention of making a CA model to submit fro rostering. So hold your breath for a PPT or the roster to fall.

Wow that really is a bummer.
(I know I'm preaching to the choir, even though I've only been in CA for a year.)
I have hopes that the roster will be thrown out within the next couple years.
Seems to me it would be one of the easier BS laws to attack.

But I digress
The GSSF membership sounds pretty cool, I will see if my dealer in AZ offers that program.

Quiet
07-20-2010, 1:01 AM
Wow that really is a bummer.
(I know I'm preaching to the choir, even though I've only been in CA for a year.)
I have hopes that the roster will be thrown out within the next couple years.
Seems to me it would be one of the easier BS laws to attack.

Pena v Cid (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/pena/Pena-v-Cid-complaint.pdf) is the legal case challenging the CA DOJ approved list.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=179227

Anchors
07-20-2010, 1:08 AM
Pena v Cid (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/pena/Pena-v-Cid-complaint.pdf) is the legal case challenging the CA DOJ approved list.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=179227

Thanks for the update Quiet.
Reading these legal documents never gets old.
Then again I have an interest in law.

1911su16b870
07-20-2010, 9:50 AM
Post McDonald...Roster...bye-bye...eventually!

viet4lifeOC
07-20-2010, 10:37 AM
Post McDonald...Roster...bye-bye...eventually!

when is this expected to happen or is it just wishful thinking?

Noah3683
07-20-2010, 11:09 AM
The roster DC had was identical to CA's. That roster was struck down and shall be in CA as well when Pena goes before the court. :thumbsup:

Fate
07-20-2010, 11:11 AM
when is this expected to happen or is it just wishful thinking?

Um....read! ;)

Pena v Cid (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/pena/Pena-v-Cid-complaint.pdf) is the legal case challenging the CA DOJ approved list.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=179227

Sharpshooter82
07-20-2010, 7:05 PM
So no more OD green? I really wanted to pick up a OD G17, when will they stop production?

Greg-Dawg
07-20-2010, 7:14 PM
Mine will be a rare find then...at $398.20, thanks GSSF!!!

Enjoy suckas!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/G17Gen43006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/G17Gen42008.jpg

Greg-Dawg
07-20-2010, 7:16 PM
So no more OD green? I really wanted to pick up a OD G17, when will they stop production?

Wow, my Glocks are collectible items!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/Glockfamily006.jpg

Glock Fotay 31 rounders baby!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/40SW31rounder002jpg.jpg

Sharpshooter82
07-20-2010, 7:22 PM
Wow, my Glocks are collectible items!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/Glockfamily006.jpg

Glock Fotay 31 rounders baby!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/40SW31rounder002jpg.jpg

Want to sell your od17?

Greg-Dawg
07-20-2010, 7:26 PM
Want to sell your od17?

All my ODs are in Fotay...and since they're rare...$1K each.

Anchors
07-21-2010, 2:05 AM
Haha. You can still get OD green if you want it, they are just going to phase it out.
But if you want it I would buy sooner than later.

Greg how do you like the Gen 4 vs the Gen 3? Is it worth the extra $50 or so? haha.

Flying Sig
07-21-2010, 4:15 PM
WTF is RTF?

OneSevenDeuce
07-21-2010, 4:20 PM
Rough Texture Frame.

bshnt2015
07-21-2010, 4:21 PM
RTF=Rough Texture Frame, I have a gen4 Glock 22 and was told only LEO can get this in CA.

Anchors
07-21-2010, 5:15 PM
If you read the thread you will see how I can legally obtain a Gen-4.

Greg-Dawg
07-22-2010, 7:34 PM
Greg how do you like the Gen 4 vs the Gen 3? Is it worth the extra $50 or so? haha.

I love the Gen4 better than the Gen3s. I didn't have to pay extra. I get all my Glocks for $398.20, thanks to GSSF.

Uhhlexxxis
07-22-2010, 11:30 PM
If you read the thread you will see how I can legally obtain a Gen-4.


do tell. :eek:

mrdeadeye
10-05-2010, 9:55 AM
They are going to ban the RTF2 from the public only available to law enforement they discontinued all of the od green frame Glocks. But they are still going to make the Gen 4 so don't worry.