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Shawn L
07-18-2010, 4:18 PM
:rant:

So I'm picking up my PPTed Springfield Loaded from Ammo Bro's in Ontario and before I get to take my new baby home I'm reminded that I need to buy a CA approved lock. Now I understand that a locked needs to be purchased during PPT's but my Loaded has an internal locking device already in the freaking gun. So now my family and I will be extra safe because of the stupid rules in this State.

Well I bought the lock and lucky it was only $6 something, to bad for Ammo Bro's I didn't buy anything else. I was plaining on getting some ammo and cleaning stuff.

I think I now have 6 unopened handgun locks in my safe.

Thanks California!!

Corbin Dallas
07-18-2010, 4:28 PM
:rant:

So I'm picking up my PPTed Springfield Loaded from Ammo Bro's in Ontario and before I get to take my new baby home I'm reminded that I need to buy a CA approved lock. Now I understand that a locked needs to be purchased during PPT's but my Loaded has an internal locking device already in the freaking gun. So now my family and I will be extra safe because of the stupid rules in this State.

Well I bought the lock and lucky it was only $6 something, to bad for Ammo Bro's I didn't buy anything else. I was plaining on getting some ammo and cleaning stuff.

I think I now have 6 unopened handgun locks in my safe.

Thanks California!!


I feel your pain. But please don't blame ammo bros for just following the law as it was written.

As citizens of this "Great" state, the only thing we can do is find a lawyer who will challange the law as it is counter productive.

For instance, I don't understand the 30day receipt law? Why is it that I MUST have a lock for each firearm I own (pistol) when I have a couple thousand dollar safe in which they are all kept?

Why is it that I don't need a trigger lock for my shotgun if I have a safe, but I do need one for my pistol?

Why is it that I cannot bring my own lock in that was provided for free by the local police department, but I can bring one in that has a receipt dated from the last 30 days?

Do locks expire? Go bad? Get rotten after 30 days?

Also, why is it that there are approved and un-approved locks? Who approves them? What's the standard?

Is it the position of the state of California that a $5 trigger lock would keep the wrong person from using my gun over my $2000 safe?

I could go on and on, but the law is flawed.

Unfortunately, if you want to do business as a gun dealer in California, you must follow the rules.

SO, Instead of complaining about the business, write a letter to the DOJ and your local assembly person / senator and work to get this law repealed and back to common sense.

turbogg
07-18-2010, 4:30 PM
I think I now have 6 unopened handgun locks in my safe.

Thanks California!!

I know what you mean! I've got a few laying around, but not wasting valuable space in my safe!

Scratch705
07-18-2010, 4:40 PM
this is why you purchase an approved gun lock from a different store, show the receipt, then on the way home, go return the lock.

problem solved.

DaveFJ80
07-18-2010, 4:43 PM
Buy cable lock from Walmart or Big 5 before you pick up your PPT'd gun. Show the FFL the reciept, you're good to go. Take the cable lock back to the store a few days later for a full refund.

Shawn L
07-18-2010, 4:59 PM
this is why you purchase an approved gun lock from a different store, show the receipt, then on the way home, go return the lock.

problem solved.

In my brilliant thinking I though the internal lock was GTG, if Ammo bro's would have told me the day of the PPT I would need to purchase one I would have gone the route.

I'm not really that mad at Ammo Bro's more of my anger is with the State, but it would have been nice if they would have stated up front that I'll be needing lock for pick up.

Librarian
07-18-2010, 5:30 PM
I feel your pain. But please don't blame ammo bros for just following the law as it was written.

As citizens of this "Great" state, the only thing we can do is find a lawyer who will challange the law as it is counter productive.

For instance, I don't understand the 30day receipt law? Why is it that I MUST have a lock for each firearm I own (pistol) when I have a couple thousand dollar safe in which they are all kept?

Why is it that I don't need a trigger lock for my shotgun if I have a safe, but I do need one for my pistol?

Why is it that I cannot bring my own lock in that was provided for free by the local police department, but I can bring one in that has a receipt dated from the last 30 days?

Do locks expire? Go bad? Get rotten after 30 days?

Also, why is it that there are approved and un-approved locks? Who approves them? What's the standard?

Is it the position of the state of California that a $5 trigger lock would keep the wrong person from using my gun over my $2000 safe?

I could go on and on, but the law is flawed.

Unfortunately, if you want to do business as a gun dealer in California, you must follow the rules.

SO, Instead of complaining about the business, write a letter to the DOJ and your local assembly person / senator and work to get this law repealed and back to common sense.

The law is idiotic, but please spread the blame a bit: it's BATFE that makes it impossible to use your safe instead of a lock for new handgun purchases. See the Wiki article that includes locks and safes (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Locks.2C _Safes.2C_and_Laws).

ke6guj
07-18-2010, 5:58 PM
:rant:

So I'm picking up my PPTed Springfield Loaded from Ammo Bro's in Ontario and before I get to take my new baby home I'm reminded that I need to buy a CA approved lock. Now I understand that a locked needs to be purchased during PPT's but my Loaded has an internal locking device already in the freaking gun. So now my family and I will be extra safe because of the stupid rules in this State.

Well I bought the lock and lucky it was only $6 something, to bad for Ammo Bro's I didn't buy anything else. I was plaining on getting some ammo and cleaning stuff.

I think I now have 6 unopened handgun locks in my safe.

Thanks California!!looks like they screwed you. The Springfield Armory ILS qualifies as a Firearms Safety Device, and because it is built-in, there is no need to sell you an additional FSD.


12087.6. As used in this article:
(a) "Firearms safety device" means a device other than a gun safe that locks and is designed to prevent children and unauthorized users from firing a firearm. The device may be installed on a firearm, be incorporated into the design of the firearm, or prevent access to the firearm.


12088.1. (a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.

Springfield's ILS is listed in the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices

kmca
07-18-2010, 6:00 PM
The law is idiotic, but please spread the blame a bit: it's BATFE that makes it impossible to use your safe instead of a lock for new handgun purchases. See the Wiki article that includes locks and safes (http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Buying_and_selling_firearms_in_California#Locks.2C _Safes.2C_and_Laws).

That's exactly right. It should also be noted that no lock is required, for the California requirement, if you have an approved safe and the BATFE requires a lock/lock box, however there is no requirement for a 30 day receipt.

Quiet
07-18-2010, 7:16 PM
Buy cable lock from Walmart or Big 5 before you pick up your PPT'd gun. Show the FFL the reciept, you're good to go. Take the cable lock back to the store a few days later for a full refund.

+1.
This is what I do.

Corbin Dallas
07-18-2010, 8:07 PM
That's exactly right. It should also be noted that no lock is required, for the California requirement, if you have an approved safe and the BATFE requires a lock/lock box, however there is no requirement for a 30 day receipt.

Care to site this? I've heard different and been required to show proof of purchase within 30 days.

SJgunguy24
07-18-2010, 8:10 PM
You can donate them to PRK arms.

Librarian
07-18-2010, 8:21 PM
Care to site this? I've heard different and been required to show proof of purchase within 30 days.

Problem is the intersection of Fed + State here. CA-Licensed FFLs are required to enforce the 30-day rule, but Feds don't care; as written, the (z) code 'provided with' easily fits with 'bring one with you', though BATFE apparently wants it to mean 'must buy a new one'.

razr
07-18-2010, 8:21 PM
:rant:
I think I now have 6 unopened handgun locks in my safe.


Welcome to the club, dont let the 6 bucks get you down, look at it as helping a local store. Enjoy your new toy! And dont forget to post pictures.

Cokebottle
07-18-2010, 8:25 PM
Buy cable lock from Walmart or Big 5 before you pick up your PPT'd gun. Show the FFL the reciept, you're good to go. Take the cable lock back to the store a few days later for a full refund.
I haven't seen a gun lock at Wally World for months now... I think they discontinued them.

Another alternative... Give it to a biker buddy... they make good helmet locks.

Cokebottle
07-18-2010, 8:29 PM
Care to site this? I've heard different and been required to show proof of purchase within 30 days.
BATF (Federal) states that all handguns must be furnished with a lock.
BATF does not recognize the DOJ safe affidavit.

California DOJ says that all GUNS must be transferred with a lock purchased within the last 30 days, or the purchaser must sign a safe affidavit.

Therefore... if you have an approved safe, you are GTG on long guns.
Unfortunately, since the feds don't recognize the safe affidavit, a lock must still be purchased for handguns.

ke6guj
07-18-2010, 8:34 PM
but if the handgun in question comes with a built-in lock, no separate lock should be needed.

shooting4life
07-18-2010, 8:50 PM
Infer that the gun shops have to sell them, my problem is when they try and charge you 15 for the lock.

Cokebottle
07-18-2010, 8:50 PM
but if the handgun in question comes with a built-in lock, no separate lock should be needed.
Except for that pesky California requirement for the receipt dated within the last 30 days.

Personally, I feel that the safe affidavit satisfies the DOJ, and ANY lock (new or used) satisfies the BATF, so an internal lock, used lock, or new lock, in combination with the safe affidavit, SHOULD satisfy both.

Cokebottle
07-18-2010, 8:52 PM
Infer that the gun shops have to sell them, my problem is when they try and charge you 15 for the lock.
Double-especially when you're buying a stripped lower.

It amounts to a 10% tax, and it's not even an operable firearm.


Fortunately, the safe affidavit is GTG for stripped lowers, and the funny thing is, small handguns safes such as the ADG "Secure Vault" are valid since the lower will fit within the allowed dimensions for those safes.

ke6guj
07-18-2010, 8:57 PM
Except for that pesky California requirement for the receipt dated within the last 30 days.
.

the receipt requirement is only if the buyer is providing his own lock. In this case, the handgun comes equipped with an FSD, so no additional receipt should be needed.


12088.1. (a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.

I argue that if I buy a Springfield Armory 1911 that has an ILS (which is listed on the FSD roster), that it includes a listed FSD, and that 12088.1(a) has been satisfied. It does not matter if it comes brand new from the dealer, or as a used PPT from a private party.

Shawn L
07-18-2010, 9:08 PM
ke6guj it seems like you and I are on the same page here. It's really idiotic to make me buy another lock when mine has one built in.

I went into the store like this :D then he tells me about the lock :eek: then :mad: and I didn't feel like dropping any more cash. They need to tell people up front that they'll be needing a lock for pick up.

DaveFJ80
07-18-2010, 9:17 PM
I haven't seen a gun lock at Wally World for months now... I think they discontinued them.

I just saw 2 on the shelf at the La Puente Walmart the other day, when I was picking up some other things in the auto dept (sporting goods was right next to it so I checked out what ammo was in stock). The locks were hanging on the rack directly across from the ammo case, next to the shotgun accessories.

Cokebottle
07-18-2010, 9:20 PM
I just saw 2 on the shelf at the La Puente Walmart the other day, when I was picking up some other things in the auto dept (sporting goods was right next to it so I checked out what ammo was in stock). The locks were hanging on the rack directly across from the ammo case, next to the shotgun accessories.
Haven't seen them at Pomona, Chino Hills, or Upland.

I also looked in Westminster a couple of months ago out of curiosity and didn't see any.