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View Full Version : Winchester PDX1 9mm+P opinions?


jdg30
07-18-2010, 9:16 AM
Yesterday I bought a couple boxes of Winchester Supreme Elite Bonded PDX1 124gr. 9mm+P ammo from Walmart because it was the first time I've actually seen it in stock there. I fired a few rounds of it through my Glock 26 to try it out and I didn't really notice a difference in recoil compared to the normal Federal 115gr. target ammo I usually shoot. I was expecting it to have snappier recoil than standard target ammo because it's rated as +P.

Has anyone else tried this ammo? If so, what are your opinions about it? I'm looking for some good self defense hollowpoint 9mm ammo that packs a good punch. This stuff was a good price at about $19 a box of 20 so I bought it. I tried a few 147gr. Speer Gold Dots (standard pressure) loaded in the same magazine and they had more kick than the Winchester. I'm kind of new to 9mm so any opinions appreciated. Here's a picture of the ammo:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62225&stc=1&d=1279473204

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62234&stc=1&d=1279480580

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=62235&stc=1&d=1279480589

Could not get my camera to focus on the closeup of the bullet but I tried.

Noah3683
07-18-2010, 9:20 AM
$19 for 20 rds isn't a great deal. The ammo is essentially a bonded ranger series bullet placed in commercial packaging. This is a more cost effective way.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/catalog1/product_info.php/pName/50rds-9mm-speer-le-gold-dot-147gr-hp-ammo/cName/9mm-hollow-point-ammo

OneSevenDeuce
07-18-2010, 9:22 AM
Winchester Supreme Elite is excellent ammo. I haven't done any scientific tests or anything but everything I have found about it from people who HAVE done tests says that it is an excellent round with a lot of power. I only know how it shoots in my Glock 17. And that is very well. Never had a failure to feed, recoil is not bad at all. Guy at the gun store said this is the brand the FBI uses. He may have just been trying to upsell this ammo, I don't know because I didn't research as to whether the FBI actually uses it or not, but I have it in .45 next to my bed.

jdg30
07-18-2010, 9:32 AM
$19 for 20 rds isn't a great deal. The ammo is essentially a bonded ranger series bullet placed in commercial packaging.

I'm not overly concerned about getting the best deal on defense ammo right now, I'm just trying to find a good self defense round that I can keep a couple mags loaded with. Like I said, I'm kind of new to 9mm so I need to experiment a bit to find a good choice and the PDX1 seems like a decent price for self defense ammo bought locally without shipping.

I was just expecting it to have more snap. I know there is a definite difference between recoil in standard pressure .38 and .38+P which I shoot out of a S&W Airweight. I kind of like the extra blast because it lets you know there is some extra power there for the self defense rounds.

SVRider
07-18-2010, 10:31 AM
I'm not overly concerned about getting the best deal on defense ammo right now, I'm just trying to find a good self defense round that I can keep a couple mags loaded with. Like I said, I'm kind of new to 9mm so I need to experiment a bit to find a good choice and the PDX1 seems like a decent price for self defense ammo bought locally without shipping.

I was just expecting it to have more snap. I know there is a definite difference between recoil in standard pressure .38 and .38+P which I shoot out of a S&W Airweight. I kind of like the extra blast because it lets you know there is some extra power there for the self defense rounds.

JDG30, the reason they are suggesting cost is you really need to put a couple of hundred through whatever you will use them in to ensure 100% reliability. In a life or death situation is not the proper time to find out you have a compatibility problem (i.e. feeding, ejection, etc.).

Also, please consider the extra "snap" will cause longer recovery time from the shot for a follow-up. Based on scores of actual shooting data, it seems very possible that one shot will not stop someone intent on doing you harm before they are actually able to carry out their plans, so how quickly you can follow that shot up, possibly multiple times is important.

That being said, here is a list by a true ballistics expert, adviser to PD's of "acceptable" ammunition for SD/HD use. There is no "better" or "worse" on his list....only acceptable or not acceptable. Anything on the list is considered "acceptable" (meeting FBI requirements).

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#9mm

The Ranger Bonded is on the list. Essentially, it is the same as PDX1, however there have been a few changes through the years.

Would you mind taking a couple of close-up shots of the hollow point and nose of the bullet?

I have some Ranger Bonded and am curious how distinguishable the differences are by sight (mine is I believe the "older" bullet).

TIA!

Shenaniguns
07-18-2010, 11:54 AM
PDX1 is basically the current bonded Ranger which is the current FBI load, I have some 147gr PDX1 I picked up that my M&P 9mm was not a big fan of at 25 yards like it is with Ranger-T 124gr +P.

Noah3683
07-18-2010, 3:24 PM
JDG30, the reason they are suggesting cost is you really need to put a couple of hundred through whatever you will use them in to ensure 100% reliability. In a life or death situation is not the proper time to find out you have a compatibility problem (i.e. feeding, ejection, etc.).

Also, please consider the extra "snap" will cause longer recovery time from the shot for a follow-up. Based on scores of actual shooting data, it seems very possible that one shot will not stop someone intent on doing you harm before they are actually able to carry out their plans, so how quickly you can follow that shot up, possibly multiple times is important.

That being said, here is a list by a true ballistics expert, adviser to PD's of "acceptable" ammunition for SD/HD use. There is no "better" or "worse" on his list....only acceptable or not acceptable. Anything on the list is considered "acceptable" (meeting FBI requirements).

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#9mm

The Ranger Bonded is on the list. Essentially, it is the same as PDX1, however there have been a few changes through the years.

Would you mind taking a couple of close-up shots of the hollow point and nose of the bullet?

I have some Ranger Bonded and am curious how distinguishable the differences are by sight (mine is I believe the "older" bullet).

TIA!

Yep.... exactly. The Federal HST, Winchester Ranger-T series, and Speer Gold Dots are widely considered as the top options. The PDX-1 is basically a repackaged Ranger-T bonded, however as said they have some different characteristics. My glock didn't like the PDX but fires the regular ranger-t just fine. All in all I prefer the federal HST the most, but everyone's gun doesn't like those either. Also Winchester seems to load on the light side of the scale, so their +p doesn't feel as hot.

jdg30
07-18-2010, 4:19 PM
My glock didn't like the PDX but fires the regular ranger-t just fine.

What problems did your Glock have with the PDX ammo?

Noah3683
07-18-2010, 4:31 PM
What problems did your Glock have with the PDX ammo?

3 FTE and 1 FTF in 40 rds

jdg30
07-18-2010, 4:40 PM
3 FTE and 1 FTF in 40 rds

That's a lot of malfunctions. So much for the theory that floats around that 9mm Glocks are the originally designed Glock platform and therefore are totally reliable and eat any factory ammo without a flaw (compared to other caliber models). My G26 has fired at least 300 rounds of 115gr Federal target ammo flawlessly so I figured it wouldn't need to be extensively tested with expensive defense rounds to verify function. Shooting expensive self defense ammo for target practice is literally like blowing your money away.

Noah3683
07-18-2010, 4:48 PM
I have a 23 so not 9mm, and results with each individual gun may vary. I prefer the value of buying them in LE packaging, plus it is much cheaper to test them that way. My xd likes the pdx and ranger, as well as gold dots but won't shoot the federal HST

jdg30
07-18-2010, 4:57 PM
I prefer the value of buying them in LE packaging, plus it is much cheaper to test them that way.

That's understandable, the earlier link is a good price. I just wanted to get some defense rounds to load a couple of mags with instead of having them loaded with target ammo, so I bought the PDX1 because it was available. The price in the link is definitely a little easier to shoot more with.

Noah3683
07-18-2010, 5:09 PM
The pdx are a really good round. especially for local. I prefer the federal HST the most. They have wicked expansion and great weight retention. Probably the best I've tested. ATG usually has them, but are out right now. I will be ordering more soon. I see you are over in A.V. Hit me up in a week or 2, I can help you save some on shipping

cindynles
07-19-2010, 6:40 PM
Winchester PDX1 is a good 9mm round, but you can get it for almost 1/2 the price online if you order the "LE" version, Ranger Bonded. Ammunition to go usually has it for $30 for a 50 round box.

Legasat
07-19-2010, 7:05 PM
My M&P 9mm's love Gold Dots. They stay loaded with 124gr +P JHP.

SVRider
07-19-2010, 9:50 PM
JDG30,

Sorry for the late reply. I have been meaning to take photos for you and keep getting side tracked, so I figured I had better do it while I was thinking about it.

Here are closeup photos of the RA9B 147gr Ranger Bonded. I believe these are the generation just prior to the PDX1 that is current. You will notice the differences in bullet shape immediately. The PDX1 appears to be a bonded version of the Talon bullet. The previous generation Ranger Bonded does not have its jacket extend in to the hollow point cavity.


Be aware and ask questions before you buy anything. So far I have not found any Ranger RA9B that was the new bullet design. It has all been the previous generation (not that there is anything wrong with it)....just FYI.

HTH! (and thanks again for the pics)