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Optix
07-17-2010, 1:40 PM
Hey guys,

I am 19 years old and am working on obtaining my first handgun. I am working with my grandparents who live in Arizona who will be buying the handgun and then transferring it to me through an FFL dealer and the intra-familial transaction form.

I am looking to pick up a Glock19 Gen.4. My grandparents went to a local gunshop today who has not yet received any of the Gen4 G19's and the employee they talked with told them that as an Arizona residence they can't legally sell/transfer/give me a gun because i live in California. From what i have researched this is false.

So just to get my facts straight as long as we go through an FFL holder, i have a HSC, and i send in the intra-familial transaction form within 30 days it is completely legal for one of my grandparents to give the handgun that they bought in Arizona to me?

Also since there local shop does not have the Gen.4 G19, is it okay for them to order the Gen.4 G19 from an online shop like Glockmeister who might currently have a Gen.4 19 in stock and still transfer it to me?

Of course I will buy a 10 round magazine and have it shipped to them to give to me with the gun and they will keep the three 15 round magazines with them for when i bring my glock out to arizona for some hi-capacity shooting ;)

ChrisTKHarris
07-17-2010, 1:41 PM
You are not 21.

Optix
07-17-2010, 1:47 PM
And?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124237

ke6guj
07-17-2010, 1:47 PM
Hey guys,

I am 19 years old and am working on obtaining my first handgun. I am working with my grandparents who live in Arizona who will be buying the handgun and then transferring it to me through an FFL dealer and the intra-familial transaction form.

I am looking to pick up a Glock19 Gen.4. My grandparents went to a local gunshop today who has not yet received any of the Gen4 G19's and the employee they talked with told them that as an Arizona residence they can't legally sell/transfer/give me a gun because i live in California. From what i have researched this is false. correct, they may not directly sell/transfer/give you a firearm without violating federal law. you must use a CA FFL to facilitate the transfer between your grandparents and you.


So just to get my facts straight as long as we go through an FFL holder, i have a HSC, and i send in the intra-familial transaction form within 30 days it is completely legal for one of my grandparents to give the handgun that they bought in Arizona to me?since you are under 21, it is illegal for an FFL to deliver a handgun to you. It doesn't matter that it came from your grandparents.

the intrafamily form doesn't fix it for you.


Also since there local shop does not have the Gen.4 G19, is it okay for them to order the Gen.4 G19 from an online shop like Glockmeister who might currently have a Gen.4 19 in stock and still transfer it to me?since you are under 21 and your grandparents don't live in CA, moot question.

ChrisTKHarris
07-17-2010, 1:48 PM
And?

And in CA you cannot legally own a handgun if you aren't 21.

18 for rifles/longguns/shotguns
21 handguns

Optix
07-17-2010, 1:51 PM
correct, they may not directly sell/transfer/give you a firearm without violating federal law. you must use a CA FFL to facilitate the transfer between your grandparents and you.


since you are under 21, it is illegal for an FFL to deliver a handgun to you. It doesn't matter that it came from your grandparents.

the intrafamily form doesn't fix it for you.


since you are under 21 and your grandparents don't live in CA, moot question.

So i need to have one of my parents buy the handgun and transfer it to me since they live with me in CA?

And in CA you cannot legally own a handgun if you aren't 21.

18 for rifles/longguns/shotguns
21 handguns

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124237

^ Please read this thread.

ke6guj
07-17-2010, 1:55 PM
And in CA you cannot legally own a handgun if you aren't 21.

18 for rifles/longguns/shotguns
21 handguns

not accurate. You can't transfer a firearm through a dealer unless you are 21, but only have to be 18 if it is a rifle or shotgun. That is dealer rules. A parent can give you a rifle the day you are born, and can give you a handgun when you turn 18, provided that you and your parent are both CA-residents.

So i need to have one of my parents buy the handgun and transfer it to me since they live with me in CA?yes, but they can't get a Gen4 Glock in CA.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=124237

^ Please read this thread.

key points from that thread you linked to,



California allows Non-FFL transfers among certain family members within California.



(4) 12078(c)(2) also means parents or grandparents can transfer handguns to children or grandchildren 18 or older. Since it's illegal for dealers to transfer handguns to people under 21, this is the way people 18, 19 and 20 can legally receive handguns. (Penal Code 12026 is quite clear that those 18 and over can "own, possess, [and] keep ..." a pistol or revolver.)



INTERSTATE transfers are generally NOT FFL-free, because Federal law says so.

Optix
07-17-2010, 1:58 PM
yes, but they can't get a Gen4 Glock in CA.

Hmm, I guess since the current Gen4's are being shipped with the three 15 round magazines..

When you say Gen4 Glock are you referring to all Gen4's (22,17 & 19) or just the 19 because it was just released and is not yet available with a 10 round magazine option?

ke6guj
07-17-2010, 2:02 PM
Hmm, I guess since the current Gen4's are being shipped with the three 15 round magazines..

When you say Gen4 Glock are you referring to all Gen4's (22,17 & 19) or just the 19 because it was just released and is not yet available with a 10 round magazine option?

I mean the Glock handguns that are marked Gen4 on the slide, like the 22Gen4.

The Gen4 models are not on the CA Roster of not unsafe handguns, therefore they can not be transfered through a dealer, except in very limited situations. This prohibiton has nothing to do with 15-round mags. Even if you found a dealer that had a Gen4 glock with 10-round mags, he could not sell it to you.

Only those Glock that just say "22", "19", etc on the slide, without the Gen4 moniker, can be sold in CA.

Optix
07-17-2010, 2:04 PM
I mean the Glock handguns that are marked Gen4 on the slide, like the 22Gen4.

The Gen4 models are not on the CA Roster of not unsafe handguns, therefore they can not be transfered through a dealer, except in very limited situations. This prohibiton has nothing to do with 15-round mags. Even if you found a dealer that had a Gen4 glock with 10-round mags, he could not sell it to you.

Only those Glock that just say "22", "19", etc on the slide, without the Gen4 moniker, can be sold in CA.

Wow, thats a let down.

Can we expect the Gen4's to be added to the roster any time in the near future or will they not be added because of some new feature that the Gen4's have that CA does not approve of?

ke6guj
07-17-2010, 2:07 PM
Wow, thats a let down.

Can we expect the Gen4's to be added to the roster any time in the near future or will they not be added because of some new feature that the Gen4's have that CA does not approve of?

there is no current expectation that the Gen4s will ever be added to the roster under the current regulations. Glock tried to have them added, but CADOJ said that they are new models, and as such, they have to have an CA-approved LCI and a magazine disconnect. The Gen4 glocks have neither of those, and unless Glock redesigns the firearm to have both of them, they can't be added to the roster.

Optix
07-17-2010, 2:12 PM
there is no current expectation that the Gen4s will ever be added to the roster under the current regulations. Glock tried to have them added, but CADOJ said that they are new models, and as such, they have to have an CA-approved LCI and a magazine disconnect. The Gen4 glocks have neither of those, and unless Glock redesigns the firearm to have both of them, they can't be added to the roster.

Understandable, i guess.

This might be a stretch but let me ask you if this would work..

If my grandparents (mom's parents) who live in Arizona were to buy a Gen4 Glock19 and then transfer it through an FFL with a 10 round magazine to my mom who would then give the handgun to me as a gift, would that process be legal if the intra-famlial transaction form was sent in for each transfer between family members? Since no FFL dealer would be "selling" the gun to me and off the roster handguns are excluded among intra-famlilial transfers it should be legal.

I know this is somewhat over the top, and by doing so am i just asking for trouble?

ke6guj
07-17-2010, 2:21 PM
now you are starting to understand how the laws work, and how you can comply with the letter of the law to your benefit.

yes, your AZ grandparents may buy a handgun with the intent of gifting it to their CA daughter, your mother. Since it is going across state lines, they must use a CA FFL to facilitate the transfer. Not all CA FFLs understand this, so ask first. Also, if your grandparents are planning on gifting the handgun to your mother, they can just buy it at the AZ dealer. They do not need to explain this to the AZ dealer. Even though it is legal for them to buy the handgun as a gift, many dealers do not understand that "buying as a gift" is legal and assume that it is an illegal straw purchase and refuse to sell them the handgun.

They may not send any large-capacity magazines. the handgun must not be a CA AW, which the Gen4 Glock is not. The CA FFL will do a roster-exempt intrafamily transfer to your mother. YOur mother must have an HSC. There is no need to file an intrafamily form with CADOJ since the transfer went through a dealer. The intrafamily form is only needed for dealerless transfers.

Now, once your mother has the handgun in CA, she may decide to gift it to you. In this case, since you both are CA residents, there is no need to use a dealer to facilitate the transfer. You must have an HSC to receive the handgun from your mother. In this case, you would use the intrafamily form to document that you were now the owner of the handgun.

I suggest that you print out the 4473, http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473.pdf and read the instructions. Have both your mother and grandparents read and understand it so that they know what they are signing.

ChrisTKHarris
07-17-2010, 2:26 PM
Wow this is getting complicated. :rofl:

Optix
07-17-2010, 2:29 PM
Slowly but surely.


Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it.

Now I just need to track down a Gen.4 Glock 19 on the internet!

I will also be using the intra-familial transaction law to acquire a AR-15 lower receiver since the upper receiver configuration I plan on building is currently not available as a complete rifle.

So my question with this is, from what i gathered from the thread pinned here about intra-familial transactions is that when it comes to transferring lower receivers it is "paperless". So does that mean if i have my mom buy a complete AR-15 receiver (transferred to her from out of state through an FFL), is she able to give the complete lower receiver to me without filing the intra-familial transaction form? IF this is the case how does the receiver get registered to me with CA DOJ?

ke6guj
07-17-2010, 2:32 PM
So my question with this is, from what i gathered from the thread pinned here about intra-familial transactions is that when it comes to transferring lower receivers it is "paperless". So does that mean if i have my mom buy a complete AR-15 receiver (transferred to her from out of state through an FFL),doesn't have to be transferred in from out-of-state. She can buy a lower receiver from a local FFL.

is she able to give the complete lower receiver to me without filing the intra-familial transaction form?yes.

IF this is the case how does the receiver get registered to me with CA DOJ?it doesn't. only handguns are registered with CADOJ.

Optix
07-17-2010, 2:36 PM
doesn't have to be transferred in from out-of-state. She can buy a lower receiver from a local FFL.
Only reason it will be bought out of state is because the retailer has a great deal on a DD lower receiver and can be built with just about whatever accessories/parts i want at a great price.



it doesn't. only handguns are registered with CADOJ.

Awesome!


Again thank you for all the help and information!

ak47762
08-12-2010, 11:11 PM
surprised no-one mentioned this, strong straw purchase really?


i find this is very bad taste, you had to wait 18 yrs to get your first long gun, only leaves you with plenty of time to move, or save :)

NytWolf
08-13-2010, 10:35 AM
I thought I saw someone mention straw purchase, but I guess that part doesn't matter. None of this discussions here matter either. What matters is what the FFL who does the DROS says. If the FFL says they won't do it, you can't force them to do it.

If they smell straw purchase, they won't do the DROS. All I see is someone trying to circumvent the fact that he isn't old enough to purchase his own guns.