PDA

View Full Version : Ammo Manufacturing in California


Curtis
07-15-2010, 4:31 PM
In the eyes of one fire marshal, ammo manufacturing is no longer allowed in California! Now for the back-story:

I have my 06 FFL. I'm working to get city approval for ammo manufacturing in my current office/warehouse. I was a little worried that the planning department kept asking for more and more information. It turns out they were in the process of modifying the zoning codes and wanted to include ammo manufacturing within the scope of the new zoning codes. That is done and I'm good to go.

Now the fire department is having some issues. I received a call from the Deputy Fire Marshal I've been working with on the permits. She wanted to let me know that she didn't forget about me, but she did run into an issue. Her interpretation of the new fire code (2007 CFC) doesn't allow ammo manufacturing at all in the state of California. She's been calling all over trying to get more information. She even called the ATF to find out if there were any other 06 FFL's in the area who are manufacturing ammo. (there is only one in Riverside, but it is out of their house).

Bottom line: she is very young and doesn't have the knowledge or experience to understand/interpret the code. She thought "habitable" meant any occupied building. The good thing is that I live and breath the code with my current day job, so I do pretty good dealing with this type of situation. Wish me luck!

tbhracing
07-15-2010, 7:00 PM
What county are you in?

Table Rock Arms
07-15-2010, 8:55 PM
Dealing with people from any city department can be hit or miss. I just sent in my application for my 07 FFL (in Oregon, not California) and getting my business license with the city was a hassle to say the least. My fire marshal had no idea what to tell me when I first approached him as he had never dealt with it before. I had to re-zone my property which was more waiting than anything. When I applied for my business license they sprung it on me that all business licenses have to be signed off by the building department. The lady working the counter at the building department took one look at my paperwork and said " nope, can't do it". I said "you sure"? And she said "yep, you can't do it". So after pressing the issue a bit I was talking to a manager who told me that he would come out and inspect my place. He was at my place for no longer than 3 minutes and he said just come on down later and I'll sign you off myself. Makes me wonder how many businesses don't get started because of some lazy city employee that is just to lazy to do anything but say "nope, can't do it".

Curtis
07-15-2010, 9:35 PM
What county are you in?

Riverside County

RLW - i'm a structural engineer. You would not believe some of the horror stories from my industry. And you don't always have the ability to move up the chain of command. It is important to know what the answer is or should be before you even ask. I make a point of asking the same questions of several city employees. I'll even call neighboring cities to get different in put on what codes allow.

With all of that said, there are lots and lots of city workers that are very helpful. It is an important role that is needed to protect citizens.

Table Rock Arms
07-16-2010, 6:54 AM
Riverside County

RLW - I'm a structural engineer. You would not believe some of the horror stories from my industry. And you don't always have the ability to move up the chain of command. It is important to know what the answer is or should be before you even ask. I make a point of asking the same questions of several city employees. I'll even call neighboring cities to get different in put on what codes allow.

With all of that said, there are lots and lots of city workers that are very helpful. It is an important role that is needed to protect citizens.

I agree. To be honest, most of the people that I dealt with were quite helpful. When it came to re-zoning my property, it seemed like a bit of work so I called a land use consultant to get a quote. The quote seemed real high so I called the planning department to ask how difficult it would be and they said not to worry and that they would be able to help me out and make sure I get things done right.

sandman21
07-16-2010, 8:34 AM
CBC Chapter 2 pg 36

Habitable space. A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces.

Have her talk to the B.O. to clarify the issue. The building will need to comply with Group H use and occupancy.

Do you have your S.E. license?

Corbin Dallas
07-16-2010, 10:20 AM
Riverside County

RLW - i'm a structural engineer. You would not believe some of the horror stories from my industry. And you don't always have the ability to move up the chain of command. It is important to know what the answer is or should be before you even ask. I make a point of asking the same questions of several city employees. I'll even call neighboring cities to get different in put on what codes allow.

With all of that said, there are lots and lots of city workers that are very helpful. It is an important role that is needed to protect citizens.

I very much feel your pain.

Many years ago, while a manager for a car stereo shop, our new store had 20' roll up doors in the back (3 of them) and one had a swing door insert that was welded shut.

Now, with that said, the door was welded shut because the building inspector said the door was not wheel chair compliant. I argued that the roll up doors that are 20' wide and 20' tall were more than enough room for someone in a wheelchair to enter the installation bay from. I also argued that if I had a potential employee that was in a wheelchair, they would not be hired due to BFOQ. Much like how Hooters only hires WOMEN to be the servers, as men do not possess the required equipment.

Mind you, there were also 4 additional entry/exit points to the building including another 20' roll up door for the delivery truck.

So the door got welded and painted that night to comply with ADA.

Two days later, the fire marshall comes by, sees the door welded and tells us to either A) unweld the door so there is access or B) He will close us down until it's done.

I told the marshall what the inspector said and he told me he didn't care.

Needless to say I had my guys get their grinders out and the door was open in 10 minutes.

Untamed1972
07-16-2010, 12:32 PM
I guess these guys must be operating illegally then aye?

http://www.rlbammo.com/index.html

Curtis
07-16-2010, 2:36 PM
CBC Chapter 2 pg 36

Habitable space. A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces.

Have her talk to the B.O. to clarify the issue. The building will need to comply with Group H use and occupancy.

Do you have your S.E. license?

I used the examplle of a home with an attached garage being U1. I will sit down with her on Monday.

No I don't have my SE. I'm a PE, but it's easier to say "structural engineer."

I guess these guys must be operating illegally then aye?

http://www.rlbammo.com/index.html

Red Line Ballistics doesn't manufacture their ammo. I believe they sell Black Hills Ammo.

Table Rock Arms
07-16-2010, 8:19 PM
Isn't miwall located in California?

Two Shots
07-16-2010, 8:55 PM
They're located in Grass Valley Calif.
Also check: http://www.allbusiness.com/companyindex/California/Small_Arms_Ammunition_Mfg/45579714A27E94651CAB1D5F5413BE79-1.html

Fjold
07-16-2010, 9:17 PM
In the eyes of one fire marshal, ammo manufacturing is no longer allowed in California! Now for the back-story:
.............................

With me luck!

Do you have a lisp? :D

Curtis
08-05-2010, 3:21 AM
CBC Chapter 2 pg 36

Habitable space. A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces.

Have her talk to the B.O. to clarify the issue. The building will need to comply with Group H use and occupancy.

Do you have your S.E. license?

sandman, I had a face to face meeting and that is the one item holding things up. I would be limited to one pound of gun powder OR I need to meet H occupancy requirements. Do you know what the requirements are? I don't have that section of the code. I will send you a PM.

Thanks fortune help.

By the way, I'm working on correcting my lisp.