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View Full Version : staggering hangdun rounds FMJ/HP


shootin
07-13-2010, 10:12 PM
okay so people have said for self defense that sometimes you need a hollow point but other times you need a FMJ to penetrate. well, how about staggering them in your magazine ? does anyone do that ?

Cokebottle
07-13-2010, 10:20 PM
Bad idea.

It can play hell with forensics.
You want consistency so there is less question as to whether you were truthful or not when you claim "I was here and fired in that direction, the intruder/attacker was over there and moving in that direction".

shootin
07-13-2010, 10:23 PM
wouldnt staying alive be more important than forensics ?

bjl333
07-13-2010, 10:27 PM
Its for that reason I use a revolver. 1. shotshell 2-7. JHP ...

C.W.M.V.
07-13-2010, 10:30 PM
Not worth the effort, I personally load FMJ but with 45 acp its the difference between a half inch hole or a 3/4 inch hole, either way big dang hole.

Cokebottle
07-13-2010, 10:32 PM
wouldnt staying alive be more important than forensics ?
Shot placement is more important than the caliber or whether it's JHP or FMJ.

If any commercially available JHP doesn't do the job, an FMJ isn't going to do any better because you aren't hitting or penetrating a vital area, either due to poor shot placement, or the attacker is wearing armor.

Two to the chest, one to the head (48 rounds went through this "guy").

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/XD9/RIA-48rds.jpg

leelaw
07-13-2010, 10:33 PM
Bad idea.

It can play hell with forensics.
You want consistency so there is less question as to whether you were truthful or not when you claim "I was here and fired in that direction, the intruder/attacker was over there and moving in that direction".

A forensics specialist should be able to identify the source and target location regardless of the type of projectile used.

yzernie
07-14-2010, 12:41 AM
Hey, did you shoot this guy in the back??!! :D

Shot placement is more important than the caliber or whether it's JHP or FMJ.

If any commercially available JHP doesn't do the job, an FMJ isn't going to do any better because you aren't hitting or penetrating a vital area, either due to poor shot placement, or the attacker is wearing armor.

Two to the chest, one to the head (48 rounds went through this "guy").

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/XD9/RIA-48rds.jpg

gotime
07-14-2010, 8:49 AM
Hey, did you shoot this guy in the back??!! :D

haha I use that exact target every Sunday and think the same thing.

As far as alternating rounds, I don't think it would be disastrous if you did. That being said, in a typical HD situation I don't think you should be worried about lack of penetration with an HP... you will want the expansion though.

Decoligny
07-14-2010, 9:08 AM
Shot placement is more important than the caliber or whether it's JHP or FMJ.

If any commercially available JHP doesn't do the job, an FMJ isn't going to do any better because you aren't hitting or penetrating a vital area, either due to poor shot placement, or the attacker is wearing armor.

Two to the chest, one to the head (48 rounds went through this "guy").

http://personal.linkline.com/rlockyer/XD9/RIA-48rds.jpg

I like the shot placement on the head shots.

Aiming for the two front teeth puts the round right through the brain stem. :D

j1133s
07-14-2010, 10:40 AM
okay so people have said for self defense that sometimes you need a hollow point but other times you need a FMJ to penetrate. well, how about staggering them in your magazine ? does anyone do that ?

I've heard this before, so there's probably some that do. But the argument should be to penetrate really think clothing and not a wall since you should know what you are shooting at in SD.

j1133s
07-14-2010, 10:43 AM
I like the shot placement on the head shots.

Aiming for the two front teeth puts the round right through the brain stem. :D

Interesting pic of head shots. I'd practice more eyes area shots instead if I'm going to head shots because that's more vital. Your shot placement is almost all "bad" head shots where the mouth isn't as critical and brain has a thick skull there, just FYI.

CHS
07-14-2010, 1:47 PM
Modern HP's give the desired 12" minimum penetration that you're looking for. Adding FMJ's to the stack won't get you any more "performance".

If you're ever in that terrible situation, just keep pulling the trigger until the perp stops moving.

Cokebottle
07-14-2010, 8:09 PM
Hey, did you shoot this guy in the back??!! :D
I think he's pretty well shot on both sides :D

Cokebottle
07-14-2010, 8:10 PM
I like the shot placement on the head shots.

Aiming for the two front teeth puts the round right through the brain stem. :D
And if I miss the brain stem, he'll starve to death ;)

Cokebottle
07-14-2010, 8:14 PM
Interesting pic of head shots. I'd practice more eyes area shots instead if I'm going to head shots because that's more vital. Your shot placement is almost all "bad" head shots where the mouth isn't as critical and brain has a thick skull there, just FYI.
I tend to anticipate recoil a bit and end up shooting low... but at least the grouping is decent ;)

That was also my first 48 rounds through my new RIA Tactical, first time I've fired a .45 in about 4 years, and the first time I've ever fired a 5" 1911 (and also first trip to the range in over 6 months due to unemployment).
My previous experience with 45 was my buddy's Double Eagle... don't think I put more than 20 rounds through it.

Lone_Gunman
07-15-2010, 1:03 AM
I have my HD .45 loaded with FMJ right now but that's cause I'm low on money and I found some WWB at walmart. I would rather use JHP but I don't have the money to buy enough to make sure it's reliable in my XD so for now it's FMJ.

77bawls
07-15-2010, 3:28 AM
I use JHP at home and FMJ in the tent.

M. Sage
07-15-2010, 4:34 AM
Modern HP's give the desired 12" minimum penetration that you're looking for. Adding FMJ's to the stack won't get you any more "performance".

If you're ever in that terrible situation, just keep pulling the trigger until the perp stops moving.

This. Go with a modern, current-generation JHP and you'll get the FBI required 12-17" penetration along with expansion. The performance will be just fine.

Only time I'd load FMJ for defense would be in the woods where I might have to shoot something bigger than a human being, and then I probably should just carry a bigger gun (which is what I do).

VictorFranko
07-15-2010, 5:55 AM
okay so people have said for self defense that sometimes you need a hollow point but other times you need a FMJ to penetrate. well, how about staggering them in your magazine ? does anyone do that ?

Since you're a "spray and pray" kinda guy, what does it matter?

Sunwolf
07-15-2010, 8:05 AM
With 10mm,it just doesn`t matter.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
07-15-2010, 6:38 PM
Nope, don't do it. The "benefit" is dubious at best. A properly designed JHP will do the job if you do yours.

Twinsen
07-15-2010, 7:25 PM
Find one load. Use it forever.

Bill Carson
07-16-2010, 1:48 AM
I used to have six 9mm glaser saftety slugs followed by six hydro-shok bullets in my magazine. Now I just rock JHP's in my .45