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chefdude
07-13-2010, 6:58 PM
I went to the Doctor today (a new one because of my new insurance) and he started in with a series of questions, medical history, do you smoke, do you drink, are you married, do you have childeren, do you have guns in your house.....BIG RED FLAG!!!! I asked him what that has to do with my exam and my medical history. He told me that gun accidents are a health issue. I asked him how many of his patients had been shot because of gun related accidents, he said none, I asked him how may of his patients had been injured or killed as a result of car accidents he answered a few... I then told him mind his own business and to screen all of his patients that owned cars and to make that part of his protocol. I also asked him if this had to do with the healthcare bill, and he wouldnt answer me...

Needless to say I will be searching for a new Doctor....

SkyStorm82
07-13-2010, 7:15 PM
Some doctors have been asking that for years now.

SickofSoCal
07-13-2010, 7:15 PM
Wow, this is nuts!

Did he ask if you have any sharp kitchen knives in your house? Those are a health issue too, you know.

ZirconJohn
07-13-2010, 7:18 PM
You should've asked him how may patients; in general, had been injured or killed as a result of doctor related mal-practice accidents due to improper procedures, or medication prescriptions... and if that would constitute a "health issue"... and to answer that question first, then you would answer his rediculous question. He of course would not answer, because he knows the number/percentage is grossly out-weighed by doctor related [accidental] deaths.

The hypocrisy is sickening...!

NorCalMama
07-13-2010, 7:21 PM
It may be related to the health insurance overhaul, but I know Kaiser has been asking this for as long as I can remember. I always refuse to answer because it's none of their damn business.

HCz
07-13-2010, 7:35 PM
a few years ago CDC(Center for Disease Control) decided that firearms were a factor in health issue. I think it was about 2-3 years ago. Since then it ended up on the questionnaire.

Wicked Pete
07-13-2010, 7:40 PM
Good going. Go ahead and lie, not a medical condition. These medical records can come back to haunt you! I remember a man that had scars around his pelvis area from a bad spider bite, the record indicated "previous drug use", needle scars from Heroin use! They were going to deny coverage, he was a drug addict.

paul0660
07-13-2010, 7:42 PM
Remember the Seinfeld when Elaine gets blackballed by the AMA because of her attitude?..........welcome to her world.


My doctor asked me "if I owned guns" at least ten years ago and I answered no, because I am just taking care of them for the next guy who has them. I did know that he was going to ask the question however. :rolleyes:

guayuque
07-13-2010, 7:43 PM
The doc probably does not give a hoot, but if you are part of a new HMO, PPO whatever the doc is given a form of questions to ask and this one is among the list. it is not the doc - it is the rotten insurance company.

Here's the downside. If you answer incorrectly the insurance carrier will use that incorrect answer to decline coverage when you have a serious problem whether related to guns or not. Cancer, heart disease, serious accident, etc. They will find a way if they can to terminate your coverage. Insurance companies are skunks, period.

Lone_Gunman
07-13-2010, 7:50 PM
you could have said "Hell yeah. I've got a couple AR-15s, an AK, 2 .45s, 3 .40 s&ws, a .38, 3 deer rifles, and a 12 gauge, and that's just the first safe Doc. Why? You wanna go shootin? Don't be skeered, I've got a .22 I can start you out on.

sniper5
07-13-2010, 7:51 PM
Denying coverage for exercising a constitutionally protected "fundamental right"? Hmmm. Sounds like a future lawsuit against an insurance company.

Milsurp Collector
07-13-2010, 7:57 PM
There have been several articles in the medical literature recommending that health care providers inquire about gun ownership and "educate" patients about the dangers of keeping loaded guns in the house. They usually cite the Kellerman study (http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgaga.html), published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, to justify the idea that guns in the home do far more harm than good. I'm not saying they are right, just explaining why it is happening.

List of articles, some of which have abstracts or text online. Just reading the titles of the articles is revealing.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=link&linkname=pubmed_pubmed&uid=11527829&ordinalpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pmc

guayuque
07-13-2010, 8:00 PM
There have been several articles in the medical literature recommending that health care providers inquire about gun ownership and "educate" patients about the dangers of keeping loaded guns in the house. They usually cite the Kellerman study (http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgaga.html), published in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine, to justify the idea that guns in the home do far more harm than good. I'm not saying they are right, just explaining why it is happening.

List of articles, some of which have abstracts or text online. Just reading the titles of the articles is revealing.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=link&linkname=pubmed_pubmed&uid=11527829&ordinalpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pmc

Hey man, just follow the money. All you have to do is figure out the money motivation behind the question - ahem, a chance to deny coverage - and you know who is behind the question.

guayuque
07-13-2010, 8:03 PM
I went to the Doctor today (a new one because of my new insurance) and he started in with a series of questions, medical history, do you smoke, do you drink, are you married, do you have childeren, do you have guns in your house.....BIG RED FLAG!!!! I asked him what that has to do with my exam and my medical history. He told me that gun accidents are a health issue. I asked him how many of his patients had been shot because of gun related accidents, he said none, I asked him how may of his patients had been injured or killed as a result of car accidents he answered a few... I then told him mind his own business and to screen all of his patients that owned cars and to make that part of his protocol. I also asked him if this had to do with the healthcare bill, and he wouldnt answer me...

Needless to say I will be searching for a new Doctor....

Hey chefdude, I am in Palm Desert and know a fair amount of docs in the area. I have to admit a great desire to find out who this was. PM me if you like.

Milsurp Collector
07-13-2010, 8:20 PM
Hey man, just follow the money. All you have to do is figure out the money motivation behind the question - ahem, a chance to deny coverage - and you know who is behind the question.

There is no motivation for the doctor to make the patient lose his or health insurance. If that happens the doctor doesn't get paid. No, the motivation is do-gooderism. The articles tell health care providers that guns are a danger to their patients and they should "educate" their patients about the risks. The providers honestly believe they are helping reduce the risk of injury or death. Again, not saying they are right, just explaining why it is happening.

RudyN
07-13-2010, 8:25 PM
I have Kaiser and have never been asked if I have any guns. Then again I have belonged to Kaiser for over 40 years.

guayuque
07-13-2010, 8:29 PM
There is no motivation for the doctor to make the patient lose his or health insurance. If that happens the doctor doesn't get paid. No, the motivation is do-gooderism. The articles tell health care providers that guns are a danger to their patients and they should "educate" their patients about the risks. The providers honestly believe they are helping reduce the risk of injury or death. Again, not saying they are right, just explaining why it is happening.

I have to disagree. remember, in this environments most docs contract with a carrier such as Anthem, Healthnet, etc. The doc is give X dollars to see so many patients - you know, managed care. The carrier then gives the docs instructions on many things including what info should be assembled in the patient file. The doc, form a medical standpoint, could care less to document gun owndership in his medical file. it has no medical relevance at all. it is simply there to hang you with later. And the doc does have a motiviation to comply if he wants continued checks from Anthem, Cigna, Aetna. if he does not follow their protocols, adios doc. BTW, I deal with insurance companies for a living.

Scratch705
07-13-2010, 8:37 PM
you guys know by getting all dodgy and angry at that question the doctor most likely marked down yes for guns in house right?

what is wrong with just saying no. not like your medical insurance will be denied cause you lied to the guns question.

bjl333
07-13-2010, 8:40 PM
Did the doc ask about the stupid boss, the screaming kids or nagging wife/husband !!! Those are major health issues and can lead to heart attacks, nervous breakdowns, high blood pressure and depression !!!!

guayuque
07-13-2010, 8:40 PM
you guys know by getting all dodgy and angry at that question the doctor most likely marked down yes for guns in house right?

what is wrong with just saying no. not like your medical insurance will be denied cause you lied to the guns question.

Au contraire. It will be. Count on it. When ou have a serious illness that will cost a million or more to care for they will poke around for any omission or error in history to try and deny coverage. They do it all the time and mostly with impunity due to ERISA immunity from suits by policy holders.

Milsurp Collector
07-13-2010, 8:48 PM
I have to disagree. remember, in this environments most docs contract with a carrier such as Anthem, Healthnet, etc. The doc is give X dollars to see so many patients - you know, managed care. The carrier then gives the docs instructions on many things including what info should be assembled in the patient file. The doc, form a medical standpoint, could care less to document gun owndership in his medical file. it has no medical relevance at all. it is simply there to hang you with later. And the doc does have a motiviation to comply if he wants continued checks from Anthem, Cigna, Aetna. if he does not follow their protocols, adios doc. BTW, I deal with insurance companies for a living.

It is incorrect that most doctors are capitated and receive X dollars to see so many patients. Fee-for-service exists even with\under managed care. Insurance providers do not have broad access to patient medical records, so information about gun ownership would not be available to the carrier.

joedogboy
07-13-2010, 8:49 PM
The most ridiculous
"You own guns?" question ever was during the background interview for a slightly higher than normal security clearance when I was in the National Guard. The interviewer (some NIS person, iirc) was just about finished when I went to put her card in my wallet ("in case I remembered anything else") and she noticed my NRA membership card.
"What's that card?"
"Oh, it's my NRA card. I guess I didn't think of it when I told you about the other organizations I am a member of, and you told me that things like being in a fraternity and academic societies weren't important. I'm also a member of the Chabot gun club, where I go to shoot targets a few times a month. Sorry, I didn't think that was important, after you told me the others weren't."
"Why are you a member of the NRA? Why would you be a member of a gun club?"
"I collect guns and enjoy shooting."
"Are you some kind of criminal? Why would anyone who isn't a criminal own a gun?"
"There's this thing called the Second Amendment, it's part of the Constitution. The same Constitution I've sworn to uphold and defend."

The interview ended up taking another hour and a half, and I was certain I would never get my clearance. Oddly, the Army was quite happy that I like guns and shooting.

socram909
07-13-2010, 8:57 PM
Some will ask if you wear your seatbelt, it is something that is taught in medical school. Its not often when they ask these things though.

Rob454
07-13-2010, 9:04 PM
I have never been asked that question. Health related stuff yes guns no

Grumpyoldretiredcop
07-13-2010, 9:42 PM
And so you told the doctor that it was none of his, the AMA's, or the HMO's business, I hope. That's what I've told every Kaiser physician who's asked (and there have been several).

evidens83
07-13-2010, 9:47 PM
Oh ya, not to steer away from the OP's topic but I've been asked that same question when I filed BK last year! WTF is up with that?! I just said no because its none of their goddamn business!

reggie 00
07-13-2010, 10:06 PM
They have that on the Alarm application here.

It states something like List firearms in home:

I laughed and wrote Yes and nothing else.

Far as im concerned all they need to know is i have them, not what they are.

Got approved and was renewed this year. So they must have not had an issue with my answer.

Rem222
07-13-2010, 10:19 PM
I have Kaiser and have never been asked if I have any guns. Then again I have belonged to Kaiser for over 40 years.

Same here, never asked. I make sure I leave a firearms magazine in the waiting room when I leave...

WWDHD?
07-13-2010, 10:23 PM
I have not been asked that question by Kaiser or anyone else, yet. I'm not sure what I would say. Probably try to not act annoyed and say "none of your business" unless someone comes up with a standard answer that does not imply either way so as not to hurt you latter yet still keep your sense of liberty.
Maybe the NRA or someone could come up with some standard answer that is recomended for this that we all agree to use, or I guess N.O.Y.B. is good enough.
Keep your cool.

shootin
07-13-2010, 10:35 PM
My doctor asked me that question when I turned 18 yrs old. Since I was on my parents health insurance plan I guess I had to be "re-evaluated" and they wanted to know things about my health and habits.

The doctor asked "do you keep firearms in your residence or handle them often" ?

I asked "why does that matter" ?

He said "its a health issue and its required for this insurance plan"

I said "oh".

He said "so......?"

and I said "i dont know"

That ended it.

A mmonth after that my dad quit his job and I lost my insurance. I have never had health insurance since that time, 16 years, and I have never been happier with my health care.

Insurance SUCKS !!

U2BassAce
07-13-2010, 10:37 PM
Au contraire. It will be. Count on it. When ou have a serious illness that will cost a million or more to care for they will poke around for any omission or error in history to try and deny coverage. They do it all the time and mostly with impunity due to ERISA immunity from suits by policy holders.

MAYBE if you lied on the initial insurance application and that is a HUGE maybe. (I could see this being the case in life insurance more than anything, but I have yet to see that question on an application, even in life insurance after 2 years it is a mute point)

But not during a doctor visit when you have insurance in force. Sorry not gonna happen.

eville
07-13-2010, 11:12 PM
My kids non-kaiser pediatrician asked if there were guns in the home. I said gun people scare me... LOL
their kaiser pediatrician has never asked. (we have switched from and back to kaiser due to a job change.)

incredablehefey
07-13-2010, 11:17 PM
i've had kaiser all of my life and i've never been asked about guns

Shawn L
07-14-2010, 12:08 AM
My doctor asked me that question when I turned 18 yrs old. Since I was on my parents health insurance plan I guess I had to be "re-evaluated" and they wanted to know things about my health and habits.

The doctor asked "do you keep firearms in your residence or handle them often" ?

I asked "why does that matter" ?

He said "its a health issue and its required for this insurance plan"

I said "oh".

He said "so......?"

and I said "i dont know"

That ended it.

A mmonth after that my dad quit his job and I lost my insurance. I have never had health insurance since that time, 16 years, and I have never been happier with my health care.

Insurance SUCKS !!

You may want to get some now :rofl2:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=321434

J-cat
07-14-2010, 8:21 AM
Just say yes, but add they are well behaved and do not shoot people.

berg
07-14-2010, 10:22 AM
It's not related to the health care bill or anything new. This kind of questioning has been going on for years. Some doctors do it some don't.

darksands
07-14-2010, 10:29 AM
I would have asked him what kind of diseases I could contract by owning a gun.

Riodog
07-14-2010, 10:54 AM
"Sir I'm scared of guns cuz they can hurt people."
Rio

surfinguru
07-14-2010, 10:55 AM
My wife was asked this last year when taking our son in for an ear infection. So during an office visit for a 7 year old, she was not only asked if there were guns in the house, but if there were any instances of spousal abuse, any violence within the home, any drug use and a few others I can no longer recall. My wife very calmly asked how those questions had anything at all to do with our sons ear infection and informed the nurse she was not going to answer any questions that were not pertinent to the reason she was there. The Doctor dropped the line of questioning and proceeded with the exam.

todd2968
07-14-2010, 11:48 AM
I would have asked him what kind of diseases I could contract by owning a gun.

Lead poisoning

I like the answer "guns scare me" it doesn't say yes or no and it implies no.

Can I plead the fifth on an insurance application it is just another tracking method out there.

Whiskey_Sauer
07-14-2010, 12:04 PM
This is a standard question on a pediatric visit. No need to choose a new doctor, just politely decline to state. He/she has to respect that.

jazman
07-14-2010, 2:32 PM
...A mmonth after that my dad quit his job and I lost my insurance. I have never had health insurance since that time, 16 years, and I have never been happier with my health care.

Insurance SUCKS !!

Well, I for one hope you stay real healthy: no accidents, cancer, cuckolded guys breaking your legs, or any other random thing, because if something like that happens me and everyone else on this board is going to be paying your medical tab. That is what really “ SUCKS”.

CP562
07-14-2010, 2:38 PM
Denying coverage for exercising a constitutionally protected "fundamental right"? Hmmm. Sounds like a future lawsuit against an insurance company.

I like it. Could set a wide precedent for us.

Same here, never asked. I make sure I leave a firearms magazine in the waiting room when I leave...

:cheers2: That's brilliant, I'll make sure and try it!

My kids non-kaiser pediatrician asked if there were guns in the home. I said gun people scare me... LOL
their kaiser pediatrician has never asked. (we have switched from and back to kaiser due to a job change.)

There are actual people made out of guns?! :eek:

Just say yes, but add they are well behaved and do not shoot people.

:p Well played, sir.

I would have asked him what kind of diseases I could contract by owning a gun.

A wiseguy, eh?

Lead poisoning

I like the answer "guns scare me" it doesn't say yes or no and it implies no.

Can I plead the fifth on an insurance application it is just another tracking method out there.

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/11/15/633623103869244450-FIF.jpg




My wife works in a family practice satellite office...where one of the docs was a Navy guy, I'm almost certain he's a gun owner. Also, a few of the staff (Wifey included :D ) are good friends and married to known gunnies.

I'm also a patient there, the whole family is insured by the hospital (80% but the remaining 20 is waived if you get treated at their place) don't remember ever being asked about my guns, but I would definitely choose the "politely decline to state" route and hold my ground as firmly as possible without jeopardizing our coverage or her job.

Mind you, as was mentioned previously, we're already insured (have been for years), but if I ever had to get into a formal discussion over it with them where there was the implication that it was tied to continued coverage, I would likely seek to hire one of our friendly neighborhood gun lawyers to assist in the effort. Ideally they'd roll over and get a good education in the process.

P08
07-14-2010, 4:10 PM
Guns are responsible for many criminals losing their lives, maybe its bad for their health.

xr650r
07-14-2010, 4:49 PM
Did he ask if you ride a bike or skateboard, too?

audiophil2
07-14-2010, 5:19 PM
I would have said yes but one less due to the one on my hip. then tell him to subtract 2 lbs off my weight chart.

Southpaw45
07-14-2010, 11:41 PM
You should've asked him how may patients; in general, had been injured or killed as a result of doctor related mal-practice accidents due to improper procedures, or medication prescriptions... and if that would constitute a "health issue"... and to answer that question first, then you would answer his rediculous question. He of course would not answer, because he knows the number/percentage is grossly out-weighed by doctor related [accidental] deaths.

The hypocrisy is sickening...!

Thats what I was thinking. Its true that more people are killed by careless doctors that gunshot wounds......

bigthaiboy
07-15-2010, 2:18 PM
Lead poisoning


This was my thought, too.

Some people who are non-shooters, are likely to think there is a high risk of physical and airborne exposure to lead poisoning just from handling and shooting ammunition. Lead toxicity can can lead to a wide range of health issues. My guess is, the doctor is just trying to find out what possible "risks" your body is being exposed to, and how these may effect your health in the long term.

POLICESTATE
07-15-2010, 2:34 PM
I always answer the questions I feel are too probing with "no"

Do you have guns in your home? "no"

guns_and_labs
07-15-2010, 2:47 PM
It's a pretty standard question, and it's on the form that most docs get from the insurance carriers. Some fill it out, some don't. My doc asked me that a while back. She wasn't surprised or fussed when I said, "Decline to state," with a smile. Her reply, "well, I hope you keep them where the kids can't get them." And we moved on.

I would have said yes but one less due to the one on my hip. then tell him to subtract 2 lbs off my weight chart.

That just happened to a good friend of mine. He went in for a routine check-up, forgetting that he would be stepping on the scale. He read off the weight, mentalling subtracting 3 lbs. The nurse said, "that's not what the scale read... you shouldn't lie about your weight to your doctor." He took off his gun and ammo, and stepped back on. The nurse couldn't focus on the weight anymore...

guayuque
07-29-2010, 7:59 PM
There is no motivation for the doctor to make the patient lose his or health insurance. If that happens the doctor doesn't get paid. No, the motivation is do-gooderism. The articles tell health care providers that guns are a danger to their patients and they should "educate" their patients about the risks. The providers honestly believe they are helping reduce the risk of injury or death. Again, not saying they are right, just explaining why it is happening.

That is absolutely incorrect. Sorry man, but in many HMO plans the carrier provides a list of historical/background questions to ask. This is one of them. Why do you think that so many people here see it as routine?

Now when you file a claim for shooting your toe, or shooting a bad guy and he sues (I actaully defended a buddy where Farmers denied coverage on the grounds of intentional act when he fired at and hit a heroin addict burglar in the shoulder) the carrier will deny coverage. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise, or that the insurer has your best interests in mind.

Milsurp Collector
07-29-2010, 8:44 PM
That is absolutely incorrect. Sorry man, but in many HMO plans the carrier provides a list of historical/background questions to ask. This is one of them. Why do you think that so many people here see it as routine?



That might be true in parts of California or with certain HMOs, but that doesn't mean it's true all over the country. Just because you have to put a bullet button on your AR and wait 10 days to take possession of the gun you bought doesn't mean everyone in the country has to.

But what is true is that there is medical literature pushing the idea that health care providers should look at gun ownership as a risk factor similar to alcohol or drug abuse. I don't agree with it, but it's there.

stitchnicklas
07-29-2010, 10:03 PM
funny thing about my doctor ,i told him i own guns and he was all interested and asking questions and such.i got him really turned on to firearms.
the drug test tech at his office is now a gun junkie thanks to me and giving him my old gun literature,g&a.shotgun news,ar15 magazine....

you must strive to convert the ignorant to the path of 2A..

rugershooter
07-29-2010, 10:33 PM
Stories like this make me glad my doctor is very pro gun. He was recently telling me that he inherited 300 guns from his dad who inherited a lot of those from his dad. We talk shooting, guns, politics, etc. He's got some great stories about doing his redicency in a jail hopital. He's definitely a great doctor, medicially speaking. Best doctor I ever had. The only thing I don't like is that he's close to retiring.

mswanson223
07-29-2010, 11:55 PM
WTF!!!

SgtDinosaur
07-30-2010, 10:38 AM
Just say no.

xibunkrlilkidsx
07-30-2010, 6:36 PM
Nunya











nunya buisness.

Trojan Bayonet
07-31-2010, 1:28 AM
Remind the doc that guns cause a lot less mind rot and physical sloth than the 42 inch window into "paradise" with a thousand channels.

23 Blast
07-31-2010, 3:46 AM
A co-worker of mine was asked the gun question by his doctor many years ago, probably right around the time the AMA made it their official position that "guns are BAD!!!" From the description my co-worker gave me, this particular doc was evidently a very anti-gun kind of guy.

He askedy co-worker if he had any guns in the house, andy coworker said yes. Now mind you - this particular guy is about as far from a "gun-nut" as a person can get and still actually own a gun. He bought one (a Beretta 84 .380) just because he had always wanted one "just to have," shot a box of rounds through it and put it away. At the time, his daughter had just graduated high school and moved out of the house, so there were no young children in the house, just him and his old lady.

However, he was treated to a 10-minute tirade over the evils of guns and how bad they were and how irresponsible it was to keep one, and so on and so on. My coworker said he was initially mostly amused by how animated the doc got - my coworker is a very laid-back guy who takes just about everything in stride; probably a residue of his hippie and heavy-drug using days :D - but anyway, he tells me later when he saw the doc, he gave HIM a ten-minute tongue lashing about minding his own business and whatnot! This guy is laid-back, but when he gets agitated about something, he's pure comedy Gold. I'd have given a lot to have borne witness to that tirade!

Spaceghost
07-31-2010, 1:36 PM
Kaiser in the Bay Area has never asked me that question. I am dying to write in MYOFB on it.


It may be related to the health insurance overhaul, but I know Kaiser has been asking this for as long as I can remember. I always refuse to answer because it's none of their damn business.

Ed_in_Sac
07-31-2010, 1:41 PM
You mean...LIKE THIS ONE?:eek:

xibunkrlilkidsx
07-31-2010, 4:38 PM
or do the good ole..

i got two guns right here, flex and kiss biceps.

2009_gunner
07-31-2010, 5:37 PM
I would just lie and say "no."

It's simple, thwarts their political agenda, and you will not be able to persuade them that owning a gun is good.

Also, why give the insurance companies *any* information?

duckman1
07-31-2010, 5:41 PM
I am not aware of a health insurance carrier that asks the gun question on an application. I don't see how they could deny covering a medical condition based on what you did or did not disclose to your doctor during an interview. They will deny coverage and recind your policy if you were not truthful on the application.

Turbinator
08-01-2010, 10:37 AM
How about answering "Yes, guns in the house - and would you like me to take you to the range to try a few out?"

Turby

Ed_in_Sac
08-01-2010, 11:22 AM
Naw, I usually keep them in my car or my "GET AWAY" plane, the big ones anyway. I do store 50 cal and 20 mm ammo in the spare bedroom, alongside the grenades and RPG missiles, but own a fire extinguisher. And don't worry, I wear ear protection when shooting, the people screaming can really damage your ears. Was going to ask you if a person should be concerned about blood splattering on them. I mean, can you catch a disease from that?

IrishPirate
08-01-2010, 11:40 AM
he was probably concearned about lead poisoning

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/cookie5_12/2641517019_aca70bbd5a_o.jpg

jptsr1
08-01-2010, 11:46 AM
how about: "yes, I consider them malpractice insurance".

FastFinger
08-01-2010, 11:58 AM
Where is that stat when you need it? You know, the one about how many children die each year drowning in less than 12" of water? In buckets etc?

Here's a stat we can bank on... These types of questions re: our personal lifestyle, are going to become more and more common and intrusive as Obamacare metastasizes over the coming years.

During the Obamacare "debate" there was a thread here where some people stated that Obamacare might lead to gun registration, and maybe even eventual confiscation. One the far side of reality the useful idiots were laughing and posting the usual tinfoil hat slurs. Well - we shall see. Hopefully McDonald inoculated us, and this November and 2012 will bring long term remission, but a 5/4 decision can flip on a bad case of the flu and should that happen count on "Gun addiction" becoming a major factor in your insurance policy and your medical treatments.

mkfromnm
08-01-2010, 5:51 PM
Yeah, too much. When my wife was pregnant with our 5 and almost 3 they asked her about guns, if I forced her to be pregnant, and much of the rest. Wait til our good ole guvment health care kicks in!!

mkfromnm
08-01-2010, 5:54 PM
or do the good ole..

i got two guns right here, flex and kiss biceps.

Now that sh** is funny!!

Rem1492
08-01-2010, 6:12 PM
Those type of questions irk me.
What can you do though? I would simply decline to comment.

My doc (military flight doc) asked about guns and if I could help him get some, but he knew I was the point of contact for deals on base. Hooked him and the whole med crew up with ARs and Mosins at .mil cost. That's one well armed med clinic! :iggy:


Oddly enough, most of the high roller shooters at my range, with ultra pricey silenced rifles and gold plated shotguns are Doctors and Lawyers. Strange irony.

San FranPsycho
08-01-2010, 11:00 PM
Statistically people who own guns are more likely to have an accident involving guns, in the same way that people who walk outside their house are more likely to get hit by a car.


.....

Doesn't mean anything. I would always answer NO to a question like that.

advocatusdiaboli
08-02-2010, 1:37 PM
Au contraire. It will be. Count on it. When ou have a serious illness that will cost a million or more to care for they will poke around for any omission or error in history to try and deny coverage. They do it all the time and mostly with impunity due to ERISA immunity from suits by policy holders.

^^ This. It's true. there have been many example court cases in the media during the debate on the new health care bill and in it's aftermath.

So you should be truthful, however, it might raise you premiums--premiums are determined by actuarial analysis. Just like smoking, drinking are health risks and can cause a raising of premiums, is and can gun ownership--statistically speaking that is. Unfortunately, we are lumped into broadly defined groups for some behaviors.

Canute
08-02-2010, 8:25 PM
Mine wants to go shooting with me :D.

Canute
08-02-2010, 8:31 PM
Did he ask if you ride a bike or skateboard, too?

I'd sue if I got denied insurance for riding a bicycle. They want us to exercise yet exercising is too dangerous?:iggy:

SkatinJJ
08-02-2010, 10:19 PM
"Why yes, I do have guns at home. I keep them in a sort of gun prison. I occasionally take them out for exercise. I haven't uncovered any plots on their part to try to escape or other harm me or my family members. ADDITIONALLY, I have some assault weapons in my tool box. A ball peen hammer, Screwdrivers that could easily be used as shivs..."

I wonder if my doctor would 5150 me for this response. :o

JJ

jokat989
08-03-2010, 1:26 AM
I would have asked him what kind of diseases I could contract by owning a gun.

its not like there going to give you a vaccine to protect you from a gsw, so why do they care.

Divernhunter
08-03-2010, 1:34 AM
I had a doctor ask me that and my answer was"How many people you have treated have died? Do you use illegal drugs? and Are you faithfull to your wife?
I said it is important to know before I have him work on myself of family to know the quality of doctor and care I can expect. He was not happy and said it has nothing to do with him taking care of my family. I told him that the fact I have a 155mm cannon in my driveway (or not) has no bering on when my child gets an ear infection or I hurt my hand at work. Just put N/A on that one.

I have had my insurance thru my union for years and sometimes new doctors/labs/hospitals etc want to know where I work and other info that is not needed for the problem at hand. I simply but N/A as an answer and some have asked for it and I just tell them it is none of their business as long as they get paid which is thru the union and they have that info.

Standing up for myself has never gotten my coverage denied etc.

fryer1979
08-03-2010, 2:40 AM
"Why yes, I do have guns at home. I keep them in a sort of gun prison. I occasionally take them out for exercise. I haven't uncovered any plots on their part to try to escape or other harm me or my family members. ADDITIONALLY, I have some assault weapons in my tool box. A ball peen hammer, Screwdrivers that could easily be used as shivs..."

I wonder if my doctor would 5150 me for this response. :o

JJ

Not sure if he/she would or not, but it would be a lot of fun to watch the response.

Seriously though, I think I would just decline to state. I've done it with some random other questions (not gun or health related), nothing ever came of it. DTS is not a fictional statement.

Seesm
08-03-2010, 4:34 AM
I would just say "Doctor that is maybe the dumbest question EVER... Next!"...

Ed_in_Sac
08-03-2010, 10:49 AM
Have been thinking about this for awhile, not the first thread on it. In all seriousness I think the proper thing to do is to play the "disclosure of information" route and tell the doctor that you DO NOT want any information about firearms disseminated to ANY other person or agency. If an agency or insurance company demands such information, then inform the doctor to forward to your in writing that demand for consideration. Then ask him if disclosing said information is a pre requisite for providing health care?

OK, am not an atty, but you get the idea!

guns_and_labs
08-03-2010, 2:20 PM
Have been thinking about this for awhile, not the first thread on it. In all seriousness I think the proper thing to do is to play the "disclosure of information" route and tell the doctor that you DO NOT want any information about firearms disseminated to ANY other person or agency. If an agency or insurance company demands such information, then inform the doctor to forward to your in writing that demand for consideration. Then ask him if disclosing said information is a pre requisite for providing health care?

OK, am not an atty, but you get the idea!

You bring up a good point, but probably not the one you want. Disclosing health information to your insurance company is not a prerequisite to providing health care, but most policies require the disclosure of relevant health information for insurance reimbursement. I know that my policy has such a requirement. So, since NIH and CDC have both identified "guns" as a public health issue, it could be argued that it is a required disclosure for reimbursement.

Now, they would have to prove a relevance to the care being provided. So, if you're in there getting treated for the flu, disclosure could not be compelled. But if you're in there for an annual checkup or for a medical clearance, then failure to disclose potentially relevant public health information could theoretically lead to denial of benefit.

Hmmm, interesting contract issue...

That said, I never got any push back when I answered "decline to state" to several questions.

Ed_in_Sac
08-03-2010, 2:34 PM
Guns_and_labs,

Yes, I agree. But think the basic idea presented would put off most doctors. They just hate when you ask for documentation, as do most "businesses."

DVSmith
08-03-2010, 2:45 PM
A couple of years ago I asked my doc to include a blood lead test in my annual physical workup.

She looked at me funny and asked: "Why, have you been eating paint?" in a humorous way.

I laughed and said no, my Firearms training counselor suggested that instructors get tested every so often.

We got into a discussion of her experiences shooting as a youth, some of my more humorous experiences with students, and I told her about the NRA's stance on teaching proper hygiene while shooting.

But she never asked me if I had any guns at home... :D

Charger Mark
08-04-2010, 1:03 AM
My son's pediatrician asked me if I had guns in the house during his 2 year old check up. I said "yes". She said "now that he's walking around, make sure they're locked away". I was going to reflexively spout out how children are more likely to die in swimming pools, but then her next question was whether I had a pool or not. I don't think it was insurance related, just an opportunity for a common sense check. I'm sure there's someone in the medical field or insurance field that can expand on this.

guns_and_labs
08-04-2010, 8:14 AM
My son's pediatrician asked me if I had guns in the house during his 2 year old check up. I said "yes". She said "now that he's walking around, make sure they're locked away". I was going to reflexively spout out how children are more likely to die in swimming pools, but then her next question was whether I had a pool or not. I don't think it was insurance related, just an opportunity for a common sense check. I'm sure there's someone in the medical field or insurance field that can expand on this.

Well, it's both. The insurance company provides a public health and "check-up" questionnaire to the doctors for their use in that situation. The AMA has a version of it, too, though I've never looked at theirs. The one that I reviewed asked about guns (lock them away), pools (fence and/or cover them), seatbelts (keep kids in carseats, buckle up), kitchen drawers (keep knives in lockable or inaccessible drawers) and all sorts of other trivialities.