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eastershawn
07-13-2010, 7:07 AM
im going camping in mammoth lakes area and bringing my full size 1911 just in case of bears. what bullets should i bring? 230 grain fmj or 230 grain hollow points? Will the fmj have deeper penetration but not enough damage? will the hollow points have greater damage but not enough penetration? i realize other guns would be more effective against bears, but i only want to bring my 1911. thanks

1911Operator
07-13-2010, 7:17 AM
im going camping in mammoth lakes area and bringing my full size 1911 just in case of bears. what bullets should i bring? 230 grain fmj or 230 grain hollow points? Will the fmj have deeper penetration but not enough damage? will the hollow points have greater damage but not enough penetration? i realize other guns would be more effective against bears, but i only want to bring my 1911. thanks
use the search, look it up because theres already a existing thread about this. I think on it ppl were saying 45acp is not good enough. im not sure about this either but I think they were talking about 44mag being the weapon of choice. dont quote me on it though.

maxit
07-13-2010, 7:23 AM
.454 Casuel (sp?) would be the starting point.
Bears are very thick boned, fat,hide. Don't get caught short. Even that is far from sufficient IMHO
disclaimer: no experience.

Good luck, and happy camping,

Max

D53
07-13-2010, 7:24 AM
bring a GSG-5, because with a .22LR its all about shot placement :D















but my honest answer is, FROM WHAT I HAVE READ in most of the threads, most people say a .44 mag atleast, if not the .460 or .500

pdq_wizzard
07-13-2010, 7:30 AM
if all you have is a .45 I guess that is better than nothing, I would have at lest 3 mags and FMJ I think is what I whould have and mabey a few JHP mixed in.

J-cat
07-13-2010, 7:35 AM
If you are using the 45 ACP, use FMJ. JHP penetrates only a third of FMJ does and you need all the penetration you can get. JHP penetrates 12" and that is not enough on a bear.

JosephP
07-13-2010, 7:42 AM
Don't try to shoot the bear with .45 If it is not a life threatning situation.
You at least need 44 mag for black bear.
And avoid HP ammo. It will not go in to the bear's organ and not able to do the critical damage to the bear which will make you much more danger.
If there are no choice of other caliber.... use FMJ with full powder.
Has more penetration.

WTSGDYBBR
07-13-2010, 7:42 AM
When going hunting my side arm is a Sig p220S . I alternate the rounds from full metal jacket to then hollow point. I have been told that animals skin is not like us humans and its very tough . I was also told that a hollow point would not be as good as a round compared to a full metal jacket. I have a Smith & Wesson' 460 magnum performance center Revolver. I have shot a 500 mag and its not fun to shoot. I could image the 460mag is no different. I may take the 460mag and just load it with 454 Casuels . Tell you the truth I don't look forward to shooting it at all . But if I have to blow my ear drums out then be eaten so be it. The 460 mag is a snub nose so I'm not sure how much range I can get on it.

feelinducky
07-13-2010, 7:43 AM
To quote my brother-in-law a Trooper in Alaska.

"Be sure to file the front sight off before you go. Make sure there is nothing left of it. That way it won't hurt as much when the bear shoves it up your *****." :rofl:

robcoe
07-13-2010, 7:46 AM
You might be able to kill a bear with a .45acp, but the track record is not very good. Its kind of like trying to kill a linebacker in full pads using a .22lr. Possible, but not likely.

Corbin Dallas
07-13-2010, 7:46 AM
im going camping in mammoth lakes area and bringing my full size 1911 just in case of bears. what bullets should i bring? 230 grain fmj or 230 grain hollow points? Will the fmj have deeper penetration but not enough damage? will the hollow points have greater damage but not enough penetration? i realize other guns would be more effective against bears, but i only want to bring my 1911. thanks

You'll be dead if you shoot a bear with a 45ACP.

But on the bright side...

http://www.common-sense-politics.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/gun-control-better-than-camera.jpg

Casual_Shooter
07-13-2010, 7:47 AM
The other day, I watched the video posted in another section here on Calguns about the guy and his wife who live in Alaska in the middle of nowhere. He has many guns. When he needs to kill a bear, he takes a 12 ga with slugs.

buffybuster
07-13-2010, 7:55 AM
The other day, I watched the video posted in another section here on Calguns about the guy and his wife who live in Alaska in the middle of nowhere. He has many guns. When he needs to kill a bear, he takes a 12 ga with slugs.


BINGO! We have a winner. A pump action shotgun with 18" barrel and ideally Brenneke type slugs.

novaman64
07-13-2010, 8:07 AM
If your insistent on yoru 1911, get one of these kits... http://460rowland.com/1911-conversion-kit/...

If not, I would recommend bear spray, but if you try and shoot a bear with a 45 ACP the only thing you are gonna do is piss him off.

Cali-Shooter
07-13-2010, 8:08 AM
.45 ACP is NOT the weapon of choice for bears of any type (except teddy bears). I once read an article about a man who used a .45 to fight off a bear, and he got mauled, and his gun got bitten. He survived, and both his gun and himself walked out with battle wounds.

Brian2217
07-13-2010, 8:11 AM
For California black bear the least I would take is a 357. The fields pretty open from there depending on what you like. I have taken the following out with me bear hunting. 10mm, 44 mag, 454 and 460. I have been hunting bear for about 5 years now and usually stalk hunt. The score so far is Hunter 0 Bear 5. With that said, 99% of the time that bear is running the other direction by the time I get my rifle up. I will tell you this though, they can run pretty damm fast. My point in telling you this is, your chances are pretty slim with running into one. It's not to say you should'nt take a firearm, I think you should. Not so much for the four legged critter, but for the two legged critters.

Brian

novaman64
07-13-2010, 8:14 AM
For California black bear the least I would take is a 357. The fields pretty open from there depending on what you like. I have taken the following out with me bear hunting. 10mm, 44 mag, 454 and 460. I have been hunting bear for about 5 years now and usually stalk hunt. The score so far is Hunter 0 Bear 5. With that said, 99% of the time that bear is running the other direction by the time I get my rifle up. I will tell you this though, they can run pretty damm fast. My point in telling you this is, your chances are pretty slim with running into one. It's not to say you should'nt take a firearm, I think you should. Not so much for the four legged critter, but for the two legged critters.

Brian

He has a valid point, Ive talked to alot of people with bear experience, and 90% of the time they will hi-tail out. Mostly the only time they will attack is if you do something stupid, AKA, get between momma and her cubs or try and get it away from your food after hes already tasted it.

ScottB
07-13-2010, 8:24 AM
I wouldn't worry about bears around Mammoth unless you are careless about how you store your food or get between a mama and her cub - and even then, there is little danger unless you choose to go mano a mano with the bear. They are all over the place and fun to see. Any bear that shows the slightest hint of aggression is dealt with promptly by the forest service. Just keep you distance or shoo them away if you are uncomfortable.

I was up there years ago when some guy popped one in the next campground over from mine. The bear popped a partially opened window in the guys car to get at the open boxes of food on the seat. (he used a .30-30 if you're curious). The guy apparently tried to claim self defense, but the rangers didn't buy it after examing the dead bear with his butt hanging out of the guy's suburu and a container of mayonnaise on its snout. The shooter was arrested and led away in cuffs - to the cheers of the other campers.

If you shoot one, the only caliber that will really matter is the caliber of your attorney.

Gryff
07-13-2010, 8:24 AM
Some guy killed a bear up in Alaska recently with a .45 (setting a **** storm of complaints from liberals about the guy legally carrying a gun in a national park...apparently they think the bear deserved to win), but that guy should never again visit Vegas since he's used up every ounce of luck he has had allocated to him for his entire life.

If you insist on using that caliber, then you should see about getting rounds that are loaded with the Keith SWC shaped bullet (assuming your gun will even feed those reliably). I've read that this shape is one of the best for larger game.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/QHG503bullet-1734.jpg

wu_dot_com
07-13-2010, 8:34 AM
it doesnt have enough energy or stopping power to stop a bear. the problem w/ animal is that they lack the psychological impact as human would of developed when we were hit. so a .45acp bullet wound would only anger the bear more rather than stop it at its track.

the smallest recommend hunting semi auto gun caliber would be the 10mm auto. this is becuase the round carries sufficient energy to destroy or disable a bear. colt delta elite or glock 20 are both solid choice.

WWDHD?
07-13-2010, 8:38 AM
I read that story recently about the guy in Alaska that was mauled by the bear and used a .45 with little or no effect. The newspaper story was probably wrong, but I think it said he fired 10 shots. Don't know how many hits. Maybe a Glock with that many rounds?
I've heard the bear spray works good. Its like a mini fire extinguisher. Big cone of spray and lots of range. Hard to miss with it. I've seen it in the Cabelas catalog. Thats what I would use.
A few Xmas ago the SFPD learned that a few .40 JHPs will take down a tiger.

twotap
07-13-2010, 8:49 AM
Bring whatever ammo you want .But if you want to make a bear go away just yell at it or bang some pots and pans. Yogi is just there for the picnic basket.

BuckTurgidson
07-13-2010, 8:59 AM
I was considering the S&W 329 PD with souped up charges and hard cast bullets and even the Marlin 1895 sbl rifle with hot .45/70 loads for carry against brown bears while camping near the Canadian border later this summer. I've changed my mind, though. Check out this very interesting thread from an Alaskan gun forum that makes a well documented case for a very specific, heavy duty type of anti bear pepper spray that has proven more effective than firearms in turning away bear attacks. I know it sounds unbelievable, but look at the link:
http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/29852-Best-bear-gun

BTW everything I've ever read or heard about guns and bears (even the relatively little black bears) indicates that better penetration than that offered by the .45ACP is needed for a chance in hell against a charging bruin.

XYZ
07-13-2010, 9:03 AM
The bears in California are not like the bears in Alaska. Most will run away and the chance of you getting attacked by a bear is slim. I.E., does anyone here have any experience of actually being attacked by and then shooting a bear? There are more stories of being attacked by a two legged animal then a four legged animal. If all you're taking is a .45 then FMJ would be the way to go.

cpt_majestic
07-13-2010, 9:04 AM
No bear in Mammoth will attack you, guarantee it. Just leave your gun at home it will make me feel safer especially if I'm on the other side of the bear fishing..This is not Alaska

The last thing I want is someone popping off rounds in a campground or down by the water, trust me the bear could careless

nic
07-13-2010, 9:08 AM
Pots and pans and a crapload of noise, plus bear spray for the four legged predators.

.45acp for the two legged ones.

JTROKS
07-13-2010, 9:18 AM
The bears in California are not like the bears in Alaska. Most will run away and the chance of you getting attacked by a bear is slim. I.E., does anyone here have any experience of actually being attacked by and then shooting a bear? There are more stories of being attacked by a two legged animal then a four legged animal. If all you're taking is a .45 then FMJ would be the way to go.


Exactly! If it was me and it's legal to do so I will take my Ruger GP100 or S&W 686P, both have 6" barrels and chambered in 357 magnum. Being out there makes you wonder about bears and mountain lions, but I'd be worried more about the 2 legged varmints. If it makes you feel any better, my second choice for a gun would be a 1911 in 45 or 10mm.

lazs
07-13-2010, 9:42 AM
depends on the bear. And yes.. it is that simple.

45 acp will work on small bears that are not much of a threat anyway.

BuckTurgidson
07-13-2010, 9:59 AM
The bears in California are not like the bears in Alaska. Most will run away and the chance of you getting attacked by a bear is slim. I.E., does anyone here have any experience of actually being attacked by and then shooting a bear?

Looks like the thrust of my prior post wasn't understood. Here it is again: If pepper spray is effective against those huge, unpredictable bears in AK and MT, then it ought to be effective in the case of the relatively diminutive black bears in the Mammoth Lakes area.

k1dude
07-13-2010, 10:12 AM
A couple hiking recently killed a big brown in Denali using 8 shots (or 9, I can't remember exactly) from a .45 1911. Rangers found the dead bear 100 feet from the shooting site. They couple claimed they were attacked, but Rangers are questioning the story. Libs are upset and are lobbying that the couple be charged. So it can do the job, I'm just not sure I'd want to be around when it happened. Remember, that bear still made it 100 feet after being pumped with 8 shots. It could have easily decided to kill the couple rather than run away after being shot.

But that story is about a BIG brown. I suppose your odds are much better with a .45 against a black. I'd still prefer to take at least a .41 mag wheelgun if it were me. But I imagine you'd be OK with a .45. Especially since the odds of anything happening are slim and something is better than nothing.

Flying Sig
07-13-2010, 10:19 AM
I took a 584# black bear with this ammo last year fired from a Sig P220R at 65 feet:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=69

As others have posted, if that's all you have, it may work. If it were me, I would buy the bear spray, it will work much better.

XYZ
07-13-2010, 10:20 AM
Looks like the thrust of my prior post wasn't understood. Here it is again: If pepper spray is effective against those huge, unpredictable bears in AK and MT, then it ought to be effective in the case of the relatively diminutive black bears in the Mammoth Lakes area.

FYI - my comments weren't directed towards your post. It just happened to be the next subsequent post. But I agree with what you're saying.

I think the OP will be fine in Mammoth from bears. It's those two legged critters that have me worried :).

SunkenShadow
07-13-2010, 10:23 AM
There was another thread like this one on the forum awhile back. .44 mag was the MINIMUM against bears.

There was a story, on the same thread, with someone asking an Alaskan Tracker if a .357 Mag would be sufficient. The tracker said, "Yeah, .357 will be fine, just make sure you file down the sight before the bear shoves it up your arse."

1911Operator
07-13-2010, 10:40 AM
maybe just punch it in the nose? :) flick him in the eyes? and whistle in his ear!

Mr_Monkeywrench
07-13-2010, 10:46 AM
Good posts about bears, but if you were face to fangs with a mountain lion (which is more likely to attack) would you do well with a 45 ACP?

bayboydray408
07-13-2010, 10:49 AM
you can borrow my 500 mag, lol I dont want you and a nice 1911 to get eaten

HighLander51
07-13-2010, 10:50 AM
Don’t bring a gun, just a slow friend. You don't have to outrun the bear, only your slower buddy..... FMJ if you going with the .45acp, the lighter bullets go faster, but make sure they run in your gun. I once cooked up some 185 grain jacketed Keith style (shoulder) for a buddy up in Alaska that ran 1,200fps out of a G21. These things made fire in the daylight, but still not a good choice compared to the 10mm or revolver magnum rounds.

ddestruel
07-13-2010, 10:52 AM
When i lived in MT we all preffered to carry our wheel guns but from time to time the 45 ACP ended up strapped to your back pack.

That said I filled my bear tag one year up there with my .45 ACP and 200 jhp when the bugger came through the wall of my tent (all food was hanging in a tree). Cant tell you how exciting it is to wake up to your tent wall coming in at you

so yes it can be done. My .45 has also been used on elk and another bear to deal with a problem at close range, it is not the weapon of choice but it will get the job done or make enough noise to usually scare off a CA black bear

drunktank
07-13-2010, 11:36 AM
Can't find the links at the moment, but in general, a solid bullet would be preferred over a JHP for a bear. In your shoes, I'd carry hollow points for 2 legged critters and bear mace for both 2 & 4 legged critters.

Have fun in Mammoth! I was supposed to go next week for 5 days!

Sutcliffe
07-13-2010, 11:47 AM
I'd go with the most penetrating bullet you can get. Expansion in large, dangerous game is not a great way to stop the threat. You want to get to break bones and destroy organs.
Bears in areas that get a lot of human traffic can become aggressive and dangerous. Trying to scare them off after they have your cooler can almost ensure a bear attack.

sirgiles
07-13-2010, 12:01 PM
are you shooting cubs?

Uriah02
07-13-2010, 12:05 PM
Last I remember from previous threads unless you can manage an FMJ in the eye you'd better pack heavier.

k1dude
07-13-2010, 12:08 PM
When i lived in MT we all preffered to carry our wheel guns but from time to time the 45 ACP ended up strapped to your back pack.

That said I filled my bear tag one year up there with my .45 ACP and 200 jhp when the bugger came through the wall of my tent (all food was hanging in a tree). Cant tell you how exciting it is to wake up to your tent wall coming in at you

so yes it can be done. My .45 has also been used on elk and another bear, it is not the weapon of choice but it will get the job done or make enough noise to usually scare off a CA black bear

WOW and YIKES! Lucky you were sleeping with that .45!

Your story just proves to all the idiots that constantly post here that - fuzzy wuzzy widdle bears won't hurt a fly so leave your guns at home - are just that. Idiots.

GM_77
07-13-2010, 12:18 PM
.45 ACP vs Grizzley Bear
http://newsminer.com/view/full_story/7750458/article-Grizzly-bear-shot--killed-in-Denali-National-Park?instance=home_most_popular5

9mm vs Grizzley Bear (Funny what the guy with the shotgun did)
http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stories/081902/ala_081602ala0040001.shtml

.38 Special vs Polar Bear
BEAR KILLED TO SAVE MAN WHO PUT ARM INTO CAGE
By Martin Gansberg
THE NEW YORK TIMES
June 6, 1971

A polar bear at the Central Park Zoo was shot dead by a policeman yesterday after the animal sank his teeth into the arm of a man who had reached into his cage.
Witnesses in the crowded zoo said the man had jumped over a three-foot protective rail in front of the cage and then pushed his hand between the cages bars, above a three-foot cyclone fence that is additional protection for visitors.
Screams from the gathering crowd as the bear seized the man’s hand drew Patrolman Charles Dlugokecki of the Central Park Precinct. The patrolman shot the 6 year-old animal in the chest after he and the zoo attendant tried unsuccessfully to free the man by firing shots in the air and pushing the bear with a stick.
The injured man, Oliver Jones, 29 years old, of 355 East 10th Street, was taken to Lenox Hill Hospital, where he was admitted for treatment of a bone fracture, cuts and shock.
“I couldn’t tell whether he was trying to feed the bear or just tease him,” one witness said. “The animal came right toward him, around the little pool there to the fence. It grabbed his hand fast.”
“There must have been 200 people there,” said Patrolman Dlugokecki, who had been making his rounds of the zoo at 12:30 P.M. “They were all yelling. I could see this man, his arm between the bars of the cage, struggling to free it from the mouth of the bear.”
The patrolman said he had jumped over the protective rail and tried to push the bear, named Skandy, away from Mr. Jones.
“Nothing worked,” Patrolman Dlugokecki said. “I took out my gun and fired a shot in the air, hoping the animal would let go. Instead it pulled in more of the man’s hand, up to his wrist.”
At that point Eddie Rodriquez, the lionkeeper at the zoo, went to help the patrolman. He started pushing the bear with a stick, but to no avail.
“I fired another shot in the air,” Patrolman Dlugokecki said. “The bear sucked in more of the man’s hand, right up to the forearm. I made up my mind I’d have to shoot the bear.”
As Mr. Rodriquez pushed at Skandy with the stick, the policeman fired into the left side of the animal’s chest. The bear let go of Mr. Jones’s hand, staggered back and fell dead against the fence of an adjacent unoccupied cage.
There was an audible sigh of relief from the people in the crowd, out for a visit to the zoo on the warm, pleasant day. Some took pictures of the scene, others pulled youngsters away so they would not see the dead bear.
“He was quite docile,” said Jack DeLease, the special animal agent who planned to remove the carcass last night. “But you know how bored caged animals get. Put a toy before them ““ something to attract them ““ and they’ll go for it, take it right in their mouths.”
Witnesses at yesterday’s incident were not certain whether Mr. Jones had been attempting to feed Skandy or was teasing him. But Mr. Rodriquez, the lionkeeper, said: “This man was bothering the animals. I just chased him from another area. He was teasing them.”
The bear was born in 1965 in Sweden and came to the Central park Zoo in April, 1970.
“It was awful,” said Robert Johnson of 154 East 91st Street, who had watched the struggle. “The bear wouldn’t let go and the man was hollering. He had been teasing the bear. He must have been crazy.”

“˜I Didn’t Dare Help’

Another witness, Joe Rivera of 1976 Vyse Avenue, the Bronx, said: “I was standing right next to him. I didn’t dare help him. He asked for it - he put his hand through. It says on the signs not to feed the animals.”
The incident was not the first of this kind at the zoo. In July, 1944, two couples broke into the zoo at 2 A.M. and climbed over the protective rail to bait a polar bear. The animal tore off the forearm of Catherine Searles, 24, of 1155 Park Avenue, before it was pulled away. That bear, named Soc, weighed 500 pounds and was seven feet tall.
Before Mr. Jones was taken to the hospital yesterday, he was treated for gashes at the Central Park police station. “I don’t know what he was thinking,” said Patrolman Dlugokecki. “I gave him a summons for feeding the animals. It’s illegal, you know.”

novaman64
07-13-2010, 12:38 PM
I am sure theres cases of people killing bears with a 22lr, but the fact of the matter is in a intense situation where a bear is charging you and in your face, not many shooters will have the ability to stay calm and take good aim and place a bullet with pinpoint accuracy where it needs to be to stop a charging bear in its tracks.

The OP said he wanted the 45 for bear protection, if I had the choice I would bring bear spray over the 45 solely for the purpose of fending off a bear. Now, that said I would bring the 45acp for the 2 legged meth head critters....

JosephP
07-13-2010, 1:19 PM
Just get one like this...
You will be fine at anywhere in Calli.
Smithy 629 .44Mag with 5" barrrel.
http://www.radiokorea.com/cafe_new/C0009_album/DSC00978.jpg
:)

BuckTurgidson
07-13-2010, 2:55 PM
I am sure theres cases of people killing bears with a 22lr, but the fact of the matter is in a intense situation where a bear is charging you and in your face, not many shooters will have the ability to stay calm and take good aim and place a bullet with pinpoint accuracy where it needs to be to stop a charging bear in its tracks.

The OP said he wanted the 45 for bear protection, if I had the choice I would bring bear spray over the 45 solely for the purpose of fending off a bear. Now, that said I would bring the 45acp for the 2 legged meth head critters....

Amen, brother.

Somebody tell me if I'm off base, but isn't the placement of a shot into a relaxed, stationary or slow moving bear with it's side presented toward the shooter vastly different than a charging scenario? The (admittedly unlikely) charging 250 pound blackie is irritated or angry and can easily cover 75 feet in about 2.5 seconds (20 mph) or less. That means scant seconds, if that, to unholster, acquire the target and place a stopping shot with an underpowered round into a heavily armored, rapidly bobbing target presenting a minimum cross section. So a super pistolero with nerves of steel directs a .45 ACP pill directly in the bruin's eye. Game over, right? Nope. The bear brain rests above and between the eyes. There's a mauling coming up. I'm not arguing that a bear charge can't or hasn't been stopped by .45 ACP. I am arguing that the odds of stopping the bear are so low that they make .45 ACP a poor choice, especially when cheaper, more effective means (UDAP pepper spray) are available.

1911Operator
07-13-2010, 3:06 PM
maybe we can hold a bear hostage until CA drops the roster.

mif_slim
07-13-2010, 3:11 PM
its funny how everyone here's suggestions are all "i read"

Just think of a 360gr arrow with less then 60lbs kenetic energy doing a pass thru on a bear while crushing both ribs and breaking them...if that goes thru why wont a 45 penetrate into the internals?! Sure it wont be a one shot drop, but it will hit internals, its a matter of where you shot it.

I know beause I shot a bear last year at 32 yards (one at 8 yards) and it did a complete pass thru with a bow.

faterikcartman
07-13-2010, 3:19 PM
I took a 584# black bear with this ammo last year fired from a Sig P220R at 65 feet:

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=69

As others have posted, if that's all you have, it may work. If it were me, I would buy the bear spray, it will work much better.

That is a huge freaking black bear. If this was a true SD situation, I doubt I''m alone in wanting more info.

If you were hunting a 584 pound bear with a .45 acp I, personally, would deny you future hunting licenses for life.

-hanko
07-13-2010, 3:25 PM
im going camping in mammoth lakes area and bringing my full size 1911 just in case of bears. what bullets should i bring? 230 grain fmj or 230 grain hollow points? Will the fmj have deeper penetration but not enough damage? will the hollow points have greater damage but not enough penetration? i realize other guns would be more effective against bears, but i only want to bring my 1911. thanks
You're overstating the chance of a BLACK bear attack, and you might also be thinking of brown/grizzly bears, which are NOT in California.

Call the Mammoth Lakes ranger station and ask about recent BLACK bear sightings.

Keep a clean camp, lock up you food in the car at night, or store in bear-resistant containers you can hang off the ground AWAY from your tent.
Don't store food in the tent, and dispose of your garbage before you go to sleep.

Make noise or sing songs while you hike, take a dog on a lead while you hike.

Don't get between a bear and food, or between mama bear and her cubs.

If you're traveling with a lady or ladies, try to plan your campout when they're not having their monthly thing;)

Bears will generally do their best to avoid people, unless they're conditioned to feed off the local garbage dump.

You will not need huge pistols, 12ga sg's or heavy artillery for CA BLACK bears.

I'd agree with cpt_majestic's and XYZ's comments, bring bear spray if you're paranoid; if you think BROWN bears live in CA, time to do a little research:)

Nothing like a good bear thread on Calguns.net to get the adrenaline flowing:eek:

Have a good trip.

-hanko

ilikeguns
07-13-2010, 3:27 PM
its funny how everyone here's suggestions are all "i read"

Just think of a 360gr arrow with less then 60lbs kenetic energy doing a pass thru on a bear while crushing both ribs and breaking them...if that goes thru why wont a 45 penetrate into the internals?! Sure it wont be a one shot drop, but it will hit internals, its a matter of where you shot it.

I know beause I shot a bear last year at 32 yards (one at 8 yards) and it did a complete pass thru with a bow.

Not sure if this works with bullets. An arrow will do a pass through on deer, but Im pretty sure a hollow point 45 wont. Penetration of arrows and bullets is very different right? I could be wrong, but thats my line of thinking. On a person for instance... a bullet may not pass through, while an arrow will go through clean.

451040
07-13-2010, 3:32 PM
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/images/firearms/zoom_lg/163565_01_lg.jpg

BuckTurgidson
07-13-2010, 3:41 PM
its funny how everyone here's suggestions are all "i read"

Just think of a 360gr arrow with less then 60lbs kenetic energy doing a pass thru on a bear while crushing both ribs and breaking them...if that goes thru why wont a 45 penetrate into the internals?! Sure it wont be a one shot drop, but it will hit internals, its a matter of where you shot it.

I know beause I shot a bear last year at 32 yards (one at 8 yards) and it did a complete pass thru with a bow.

Wow. Thanks for that bit of education. My hat's off to anyone with the cojones to go after bear with a bow and arrow.

Okay, for the sake of discussion I'll agree a .45 ACP will penetrate to the internal organs of a charging bear. So, help me out here: Joe Sixpack, who has lost sphincter control as he unholsters his pistol, still has to place multiple shots into a rapidly moving target within a second or two. What are your thoughts about the odds of that happening? And second, even with pierced internals, will a charging bear immediately and reliably drop in it's tracks? I'm no pro with balls of steel, I just know what I read. And I've read that an adrenalin fueled bear, even with punctured organs, isn't likely to drop dead within a couple of seconds. On the other hand, I've read that condiment spray turns away charges at a very high rate. Any information you have is much appreciated.

11Z50
07-13-2010, 3:46 PM
Cali Black Bears are not really that big or dangerous. Most I've seen are less than 150 lbs fully grown. They will generally run like hell if you make some noise, but one never knows....an old, sick bear could be problematic. Mountain Lions are an issue more than Bears, IMHO. Humans are far more dangerous in the back country, especially in the summer when lots of peeps are about.

I'd not worry about a bear attack, but I certainly do pack when in the hinterlands, no matter what. I wouldn't feel undergunned with a .45 ACP, or for that matter a 9mm. You are not hunting bear, you are packing for general defense against whatever, man or beast. Take whatever gun is comfortable and easy to carry. If it's not with you, it will do you no good. I usually bring my .45 or 9mm with me when in the backcountry. When streamfishing, I pack a .38 with snakeshot and JHP's.

11Z50
07-13-2010, 4:12 PM
There's an old story about bear attacks. If a bear attacks, just throw a handfull of shizz in the bear's face. Where do you get the shizz? Don't worry....it will be there.

Seriously, the .45 ACP is plenty in the unlikely event of a Cali black bear attack. My neighbor is a taxidermist and the biggest Cali black that's been thru his care was just over 50 kg. Nobody I have heard from in my 52 years of age has ever been attacked by a Cali bear.

Günter
07-13-2010, 6:37 PM
I recall a story by one of my friends who is a LEO, one of his colleagues went to a camping trip with his family and a grizzly bear entered the campsite and threatened the safety of his family. He carried a 9mm Beretta 92 and aimed above the bear for a warning shot. But the round hits the ear and angers the beast. He then unloads the entire magazine on the charging beast while fleeing with his family. He returns to the campsite couple of hours later with some help. They find a trail of blood leading out of the camp which eventually leads to a carcass of the bear. The bear apparently bled to death.

1lostinspace
07-13-2010, 6:42 PM
45 ACP for a bear.

Unless you shot it on the head in just the right spot your most likely put your self in danger

rumblebee
07-13-2010, 7:06 PM
Make sure to dip your.45ammo in Tabasco sauce before you head out...I hear that bears like their .45 lead spicy!! :eek:;)

JTROKS
07-13-2010, 7:45 PM
Just do it the way this angler did.

CVS1UfCfxlU

eastershawn
07-13-2010, 8:17 PM
thank you to everybody that actually answered my question. i appreciate the input. for all the rest of you that know everything about everything, i guess youre right, a bear could never attack, i have the wrong gun and im not skilled enough anyway. im sure to die so why even try?

k1dude
07-13-2010, 9:00 PM
I am sure theres cases of people killing bears with a 22lr, but the fact of the matter is in a intense situation where a bear is charging you and in your face, not many shooters will have the ability to stay calm and take good aim and place a bullet with pinpoint accuracy where it needs to be to stop a charging bear in its tracks.

The OP said he wanted the 45 for bear protection, if I had the choice I would bring bear spray over the 45 solely for the purpose of fending off a bear. Now, that said I would bring the 45acp for the 2 legged meth head critters....

And how will that have helped ddestruel in his tent? Bear Spray doesn't penetrate waterproof nylon. If he'd let loose with bear spray instead of .45 slugs he'd be incapacitated from the spray and possibly dead from the bear.

And if he came flying out of the tent with the intent of spraying the bear, he might have made it about halfway out of the tent before he became future bear poop.

And if you can't aim a .45 in the proper direction of a charging bear because of fright, what makes you think you can aim a can of bear spray in the proper direction?

No thanks. I'll take the .45

Lead-Thrower
07-13-2010, 9:07 PM
My experiences with bears (and I have had many, as I go hiking/backpacking a lot) are as follows:

I see a bear in the woods, and it sees me. In most cases the bear runs away. If it doesnt run away immediately, I make noise, and then it will leave.

It is that simple. Never have I had a bear take an aggressive stance towards me, so they do not concern me. The only 4-legged critters that do concern me are mountain lions, and a gun wont do much good against them because they will be on top of you before you even know you were being stalked.

If you plan on carrying, worry about 2-legged threats.

*EDIT* - In this post I am referring to California black bears. If we were in Alaska, things would be different...

k1dude
07-13-2010, 9:27 PM
I've had a brown come after me in Alaska. Unfortunately, my gun was packed away in a dry bag. But, fortunately for me, a whole bunch of yelling people in our party showed up and the bear stopped about 30 yards short of me. Trust me, just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Most close encounters with aggressive bears usually never get reported. Just like most times a brandished gun saves someone from bad guys doesn't get reported.

And yes, most times I've encountered bears they run off. But one time it came after me. And it only takes one time.

To advise someone to throw caution to the wind because nothing has ever happened to you is irresponsible and potentially dangerous. I will NEVER dissuade someone from carrying for protection in the backcountry. It doesn't matter if it's for 2-legged or 4-legged predators. Go ahead and carry if you want. 95% of the time I don't carry in the backcountry. But I'm not going to admonish anyone who does. In fact, I'd probably say they were smarter than me for doing so.

If you want to play the odds that nothing will ever happen. Good for you. But don't tell other people to do so. And if you always play the odds, why don't you drop your house and life insurance? Because the odds of anything ever happening are close to nil. A gun in the backcountry is exactly the same, it's insurance against infinitesimal odds.

And if you've read about mountain lion mauling survivors, most times the victims have said a gun or knife would've helped. They aren't cougar ninjas. You have a fighting chance most of the time.

BuckTurgidson
07-13-2010, 9:28 PM
And if you can't aim a .45 in the proper direction of a charging bear because of fright, what makes you think you can aim a can of bear spray in the proper direction?

Having difficulty understanding the analogy between placing a pill into a moving target and pointing a can that blasts out a cone of critter condiments at 70 mph to an effective distance of about 30 feet. It's kind of like saying it takes the same amount of skill to hit a bullseye in darts as it does to spray the whole target with a hose.

stormy_clothing
07-13-2010, 9:31 PM
yawn - a 10 round clip of 147gr +P subsonic 9mm will make the bear very unlikely to proceed further in your direction - dont aim for the body aim for the lower half. No one runs very fast with slugs in the legs.

that's only if you absolutely have to.

DPC
07-13-2010, 9:35 PM
I remember as a kid watching a guy kill a full grown male Kodiak bear with a .357 Magnum Python 8" or 6" barrel. Guy had back up though his friend stood behind him with 30-06 Rifle. Sure enough maybe 50 yds out put one through his forehead and dropped him flat he did use JHP ammo.

gotime
07-13-2010, 9:39 PM
The only 4-legged critters that do concern me are mountain lions, and a gun wont do much good against them because they will be on top of you before you even know you were being stalked.


So the actual weight of the mountain lion instantly kills you? j/k

I would imagine that during the struggle (albeit brief) there is a chance you could get to your pistol if you had it on you.

k1dude
07-13-2010, 9:40 PM
Having difficulty understanding the analogy between placing a pill into a moving target and pointing a can that blasts out a cone of critter condiments at 70 mph to an effective distance of about 30 feet. It's kind of like saying it takes no more skill to hit a bullseye in darts than it does to spray the whole target with a hose.

How much you want to bet that if you spray a bunch of rounds from a .45 under pressure your spread will probably be exactly the same as the spread from the spray. And with the gun you get to start shooting further than 30 feet.

And just look at LEO reports of citizens using spray in defense against bad guys, often the victim sprays themselves. What makes a bear any different? In my opinion the bear would be worse. I've seen so many people use wasp spray when they think they're all lined up. Then when they cut loose the stream goes way off to the side. And that wasn't even under pressure. And wasp spray shoots almost exactly like bear spray.

The data of guns vs spray is arguable. And spray isn't panacea everyone is making it out to be. The effectiveness of both has been brought to question. I have carried both spray AND a gun in bear country. I have both in my arsenal and I use both. But given the choice between the two, my preference will be the gun. But I'm also confident I'll be able to use it under the pressure of a charge. If you've read some of the mauling attack stories where the victim was armed, you could tell they were usually incapable of using the weapon effectively due to inexperience or fear.

Kampfer
07-13-2010, 9:50 PM
Now what if it was a Zombie Bear you encountered while bugging out in a SHTF scenario? Would bear spray work?

k1dude
07-13-2010, 9:55 PM
Now what if it was a Zombie Bear you encountered while bugging out in a SHTF scenario? Would bear spray work?

What a silly question. Everyone knows pepper spray doesn't affect zombies. Sheesh!:rolleyes:

bigbob76
07-13-2010, 10:08 PM
Don't try to shoot the bear with .45 If it is not a life threatning situation.
You at least need 44 mag for black bear.
And avoid HP ammo. It will not go in to the bear's organ and not able to do the critical damage to the bear which will make you much more danger.
If there are no choice of other caliber.... use FMJ with full powder.
Has more penetration.

So if you had a .44 mag it would be okay to shoot the bear if it wasn't a life threatening situation? Maybe if you didn't like the way the bear was looking at you or something?:eek:

Jimmy310
07-13-2010, 10:12 PM
http://therealgunguys.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/mosin_pistol.jpeg

With some 180gr soft point your good to go!

Lead-Thrower
07-13-2010, 10:14 PM
^^^ I want one of those. :43:

1911Operator
07-13-2010, 10:16 PM
^^^ I want one of those. :43:

hell yeah! me too! look at the grip, looks phtoshoped! if they are real id take one.

cam188
07-13-2010, 10:20 PM
Arrows kill defferently than bullets. Broadheads are like razor blades and when they pass through vitals the animal bleeds out quickly and usually drops due to loss of blood pressure.

Lead-Thrower
07-13-2010, 10:27 PM
I've had a brown come after me in Alaska. Unfortunately, my gun was packed away in a dry bag. But, fortunately for me, a whole bunch of yelling people in our party showed up and the bear stopped about 30 yards short of me. Trust me, just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Most close encounters with aggressive bears usually never get reported. Just like most times a brandished gun saves someone from bad guys doesn't get reported.

And yes, most times I've encountered bears they run off. But one time it came after me. And it only takes one time.

To advise someone to throw caution to the wind because nothing has ever happened to you is irresponsible and potentially dangerous. I will NEVER dissuade someone from carrying for protection in the backcountry. It doesn't matter if it's for 2-legged or 4-legged predators. Go ahead and carry if you want. 95% of the time I don't carry in the backcountry. But I'm not going to admonish anyone who does. In fact, I'd probably say they were smarter than me for doing so.

If you want to play the odds that nothing will ever happen. Good for you. But don't tell other people to do so. And if you always play the odds, why don't you drop your house and life insurance? Because the odds of anything ever happening are close to nil. A gun in the backcountry is exactly the same, it's insurance against infinitesimal odds.

And if you've read about mountain lion mauling survivors, most times the victims have said a gun or knife would've helped. They aren't cougar ninjas. You have a fighting chance most of the time.

I understand, and I apologize if it seemed as if I was dissuading any one from carrying a weapon for their protection. What I was getting at was the fact that bear attacks on people are very rare, expecially in California. What it comes down to is what you think you will need in the worst case scenario. I personally carry my Ka-Bar and an air horn when I go hiking, and when I pick up my USP .40 next week I plan on carrying that. So yes, by all means, carry a weapon that you think will be suitable for use against both humans and four-legged critters.

stormy_clothing
07-13-2010, 10:29 PM
fine, game over *****es

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs589.snc3/31067_1417119198397_1545137380_1012720_5054229_n.j pg

k1dude
07-13-2010, 10:39 PM
fine, game over *****es

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs589.snc3/31067_1417119198397_1545137380_1012720_5054229_n.j pg

Now THAT'S the gun I want. Saweeeet!

What is that? A Saiga 12 SBS? Damn, why can't we have the good stuff?

UserM4
07-13-2010, 10:43 PM
I'd rather use an FMJ 9mm over a .45 on a bear and pray that I land a vital shot.

Ron-Solo
07-13-2010, 10:44 PM
If you're going to be bustin' caps at Yogi and Boo Boo, I support the right to arm bears.

Store your food properly and you probably won't see any. If you do, and want them to go away, bang pots and pans, don't try to take away food they already have, and NEVER get between a momma and her cub(s).

Be a good neighbor when visiting THEIR forest.

BigDogatPlay
07-13-2010, 10:51 PM
Store your food properly and you probably won't see any.

^^^This^^^ Take away the attractant and they'll largely go their way.

Although it was a little disconcerting to see bear proof trash cans and the previous evening's bear scat on the streets of downtown Juneau when I was up there. :)

Mohawk
07-13-2010, 11:07 PM
I seriously think that a majority of people that read or reply to a thread like this barely get passed the first sentence before they start offering up the ol bear artillery advise

The Op., is goin camping in a fairly well visited area in central california., Not grizzly hunting in alaska., Ammo advice while maybe honestly heartfelt is fairly irrelevant in this issue.,., if your out stompin around in the bush and happen to come across a bear its more then likely gonna split when it smells you coming.,., however if it does stick around its more then likely just curious about whats coming its way., In this case FMJ or JHP., doesnt matter., the sound of either going off near by will stop just about any california bear.,.,

If you see a bear., keep your distance and go the other way.,., he'll likely do the same., if you see a momma and baby., be extra careful the direction you head and back, do NOT run away.,.

Your .45 will surely give you a little peace of mind while out in the woods., (I know mine certainly does) but the fact of the matter is that., If you upset a California bear enough that it feels the need to attack you., its not going to matter what your shooting out of it.,

Just to poke a little fun at the bear artillery sect., when I lived in the mountains near yosemite.,., not to far from mammoth lakes.., I had a bear or 2 that like to sniff around my trash cans.,., I had 100% success rate defending my trash with a .177 10 pump bb gun :60: bears are lookin for an easy meal., nothing more

Enjoy your trip.., youve got more chance getting struck by lighting or in a car accident on the way there or back.,., then you have being attacked unprovoked by a wild animal in Ca. ;)

resident-shooter
07-13-2010, 11:15 PM
12 GA with 00 buck + slugs is your answa.

Anti-Hero
07-13-2010, 11:39 PM
I've had plenty of bears come into camp deep hunting as a kid. We always had one of these on the ready. One toot from these babies and bears don't run, they fly away.

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_019390_imageset_01?$main-Large$

BuckTurgidson
07-13-2010, 11:51 PM
How much you want to bet that if you spray a bunch of rounds from a .45 under pressure your spread will probably be exactly the same as the spread from the spray. And with the gun you get to start shooting further than 30 feet.

And just look at LEO reports of citizens using spray in defense against bad guys, often the victim sprays themselves. What makes a bear any different? In my opinion the bear would be worse. I've seen so many people use wasp spray when they think they're all lined up. Then when they cut loose the stream goes way off to the side. And that wasn't even under pressure. And wasp spray shoots almost exactly like bear spray.


The data of guns vs spray is arguable. And spray isn't panacea everyone is making it out to be. The effectiveness of both has been brought to question. I have carried both spray AND a gun in bear country. I have both in my arsenal and I use both. But given the choice between the two, my preference will be the gun. But I'm also confident I'll be able to use it under the pressure of a charge. If you've read some of the mauling attack stories where the victim was armed, you could tell they were usually incapable of using the weapon effectively due to inexperience or fear.


Responding to each of your 3 paragraphs in order of their appearance:

Couldn't agree more. My shots wouldn't be grouped-they'd be all over the place because it's a challenge for me to jerk my pistol and quickly pump .45 ACP (owned a Colt Combat Commander once) into a dead still bullseye 30 feet away. Quick draw pistol work isn't something I can do without lots of practice. Unfortunately, my kind of skill level probably won't save my life in the case of a bear charge. But even I can point a can toward something and spray it.

The UDAP cannister is designed to be discharged from either a chest of thigh holster. The nozzle is already pointing the right direction when the discharge valve is hit. It's not at all like that can of Raid you described. It's not a stream. Like I said above, a 70 mph blast cone. Spraying myself with this cannister? There's a much higher likelihood I'd not be able to properly place my pistol shots.

k1dude, if I may make a humble and respectful observation, it doesn't appear that you're familiar with newer bear pepper sprays since the 80s and 90s. There's a bunch of research supporting its amazing efficacy and government agencies are directing their field personnel in bear country to carry it because it has been determined to be more effective than firearms in stopping a charge. Please take a look at the thread I mentioned in a prior post for more info and some really entertaining back and forth between posters. If your preference is still a .45 ACP for a charging bear rather than pepper spray, I respect your decision and the best of luck to you.

JTsanchez
07-13-2010, 11:55 PM
Over-penetration isn't something you need to worry about with bears, so I'd leave the HP at home, just aim at the chest or head and hope you hit the heart or brain, even tho I doubt the .45 will crack a bears skull

k1dude
07-14-2010, 1:36 AM
Responding to each of your 3 paragraphs in order of their appearance:

Couldn't agree more. My shots wouldn't be grouped-they'd be all over the place because it's a challenge for me to jerk my pistol and quickly pump .45 ACP (owned a Colt Combat Commander once) into a dead still bullseye 30 feet away. Quick draw pistol work isn't something I can do without lots of practice. Unfortunately, my kind of skill level probably won't save my life in the case of a bear charge. But even I can point a can toward something and spray it.

The UDAP cannister is designed to be discharged from either a chest of thigh holster. The nozzle is already pointing the right direction when the discharge valve is hit. It's not at all like that can of Raid you described. It's not a stream. Like I said above, a 70 mph blast cone. Spraying myself with this cannister? There's a much higher likelihood I'd not be able to properly place my pistol shots.

k1dude, if I may make a humble and respectful observation, it doesn't appear that you're familiar with newer bear pepper sprays since the 80s and 90s. There's a bunch of research supporting its amazing efficacy and government agencies are directing their field personnel in bear country to carry it because it has been determined to be more effective than firearms in stopping a charge. Please take a look at the thread I mentioned in a prior post for more info and some really entertaining back and forth between posters. If your preference is still a .45 ACP for a charging bear rather than pepper spray, I respect your decision and the best of luck to you.

I'll have to look up the sprays you're talking about. The stuff I buy comes as a stand alone bottle with or without a plastic belt clip. No holster. But I understand they are a little easier to point because of the trigger guard than wasp spray. But aiming a pistol would be easier under pressure IMHO.

I've tested some of my older bear spray bottles that I didn't trust my life on anymore because of age, and they shot EXACTLY like wasp spray. Not all wasp sprays shoot a steady stream, some brands fog out a little more than others. Sprays are also totally dependent on prevailing winds and downpours. I don't like having to think of or test which way the wind is blowing before I discharge at a charging bear. Lead has no weather constraints.

The research I've read shows some benefit to sprays over firearms. But the firearm is only as effective as the shooter. I've often read the mauling reports of people with firearms and thought - what a bunch of idiots. They either didn't fire, hesitated, or shot wildly, or not enough. Never have I read of a mauling where the shooter performed well. The bear wound up dead in every case the shooter kept cool and did the right thing. The research I've read has also shown the sprays to not be 100% effective. They are only about 60% to 70% effective. That 30% to 40% is what concerns me. Granted I can't recall the date the studies were done, but I do recall they were government studies.

I also remember reading a couple studies supporting sprays over firearms put out by animal rights groups and they were ridiculously flawed. I hope you aren't referring to those.

I'll have to look up your data and look for dates of the latest studies.

bigthaiboy
07-14-2010, 3:21 AM
According to a current thread in the Rifleman's Forum, you need a full-auto AK-47 to take out bears. Yes, someone actually said that.

deadcoyote
07-14-2010, 7:19 AM
I have gone bear hunting once in my life, and didn't get a chance to shoot a bear. My hunting partner did get a bear wit a 30-06 and put it down with one shot. I know these are black bears so Alaska/Montana guys give it a break already.
I did have a second run in with a bear on the Mad River, fishing with a friend. Bear reared up not far from us, we couldnt run in waders in the river and he shot the bear with a Norinco 1911 clone with CCI Blazer 230 grain FMJ. 1 Shot, center mass, bear down. I know this might not mean much but it certainly realigned some of my thinking as far as the whole "9mm won't kill people" and "only slugs and 45-70's kill bears". Just my $0.02:D

bigbob76
07-14-2010, 7:20 AM
I'm thinking the suggestions about sprays, banging pots and pans, BB guns etc. may be based on assuming the bear is healthy and average. Wild animals that attack humans are often driven by desperation; old, sick, or injured. Animals know when it's time to get some food before they get too weak and you can't expect them to behave like an average healthy specimen.

ScottB
07-14-2010, 7:34 AM
I'm thinking the suggestions about sprays, banging pots and pans, BB guns etc. may be based on assuming the bear is healthy and average. Wild animals that attack humans are often driven by desperation; old, sick, or injured. Animals know when it's time to get some food before they get too weak and you can't expect them to behave like an average healthy specimen.

I dispute that. Predators are opportunistic feeders. They want the maximum calories for the minimum energy expended and the least amount of risk.

I think this old, sick, desperate line is fed to the public to foster the believe that we are not a prey species (and effectively, we have become that in most parks and exurban wildlands)and that whatever attack happened is a somehow a fluke or a one off.

I live in an area where there are periodic mountain lion and coyote attacks and not one of those animals has been old, sick or desperate. A couple of the lions were apparently young and probably was seeking unoccupied range. This is also what drives a lot of bears into human areas. These signs of population expansion and crowding due to habitat reduction. The bears in Mammoth have also gotten accustomed to easy meals from unprepared campers.

I have had more bear encounters down in the Devils Postpile area and other parts of the Eastern Sierra than I can count. I have never been armed and at least one time I had a nice string trout in my hand. I have never felt in danger or had the least bit of trouble shooing the bear away. (BTW, those bears have learned groceries taste way better than trout)

Lions, bears and coyotes avoid humans because of learned fear and low expectations of an easy meal. You don't have to kill a lot of bears or lions to reassert humans as the top line predator. Dead animals don't learn or teach others anything. You just have to chase them and shoot at them and let them know Humans are bad news.

Longbow
07-14-2010, 7:38 AM
OP;
If the .45 gives you peace of mind, carry it, and best wishes to you. If bear defense is your priority, you are not carrying enough gun. :helpsmilie:

The reality is, if a bear attacks, it will be moving at up to 30 feet per second, and you won't have more than a split second to draw, aim, and fire. Presuming that you can do that ( I recommend you practice shooting a tire that's being rolled at you at 20 mph, all the while screaming, SH&@, SHI&@, SH&@!!!! at the top of your lungs, because that's what you'll be doing...) you may get in a hit, :eek:

See how much time you have to squeeze off 7-10 rounds. Dont forget to get that mag change in, too. :83:

If a large brown bear attacks, it may be defensive, curious, or hungry. You don't get to choose, he does.

If a black bear attacks, it is much more likely to be hungry, which means you are in for it.
:(
You may get lucky with a hit or two. Decide with what caliber you'd like to make that hit. :tank:

Bear attacks are pretty rare. You are statstically more likely to win the lottery. So do go, enjoy the great outdoors, and be careful.

Best,
Longbow

Lead-Thrower
07-14-2010, 8:58 AM
Lions, bears and coyotes avoid humans because of learned fear and low expectations of an easy meal. You don't have to kill a lot of bears or lions to reassert humans as the top line predator. Dead animals don't learn or teach others anything. You just have to chase them and shoot at them and let them know Humans are bad news.

I think there is some validity to this. It makes me think about the difference between Yosemite bears and other California bears. Yosemite bears do not seem to fear people much, as shown buy the many campground raids each year. As for bears elsewhere in California forests, they seem to keep their distance, and that might be attributed to the fact that they get shot at among other things. I propose letting people carry in Yosemite and see if bear behavior changes. We can call it a "scientific experiment". :rolleyes:

John Browning
07-14-2010, 12:22 PM
There needs to be an important distinction made here. Are you hunting for bears, or packing a weapon to protect yourself against all the critters of the forest? While the best bear pistol may be a .500 S&W, that may not be the best personal defense tool in the woods.

Anyone who picks a .45 ACP as a main weapon to hunt bears with is a disgrace to the hunting community, because that is a very poor choice for ensuring the most clean and efficient kill possible. You owe the animal at least that much, so pick something .44 Mag or greater. Ideally, you're packing along a 12ga with slugs or a rifle in .30-06 or greater. You can hunt bears with a .45, and if that is what you have when the opportunity presents itself then it will probably eventually get the job done, but that isn't a good, smart choice. If you are going out with the intention of playing baseball, only a fool brings a broom handle instead of a bat. Bears are tanks with fur, and you need big heavy bullets from .44 Magnum handguns to really meet the "bear" minimum.

If you are packing something for protection, that is a whole new ball of wax. I still am confused about why it is always "I'm going into the forest, so is a .22 Velo-Dog/.50 BMG enough to stop a bear?" This is the wrong question. I've spent many years in forests and wilds from the Arctic Circle to the Sonoran Desert and just about everywhere in between. The real question should be, what is the most likely threat I'll encounter where I'm going? You don't need a pistol that can stop a Velociraptor or Bigfoot if that isn't the most likely problem you'll encounter.

I can count on one hand the number of bear and lion encounters I've had where the danger level was quite high in all my time in the outdoors. I can fill both hands with dangerous people encounters I've had in just the past couple years. I'm much more scared of running into dangerous/sketchy/twitchy/weird people as it has been much more common for me. The only place I've felt bears were the bigger issue was Canada, parts of Montana/Idaho/Wyoming and far and away, Alaska.

When you go into the woods, bring the biggest handgun that you can draw and fire one shot and hit your target as fast as possible. I've seen a bear charge, and I've been face to face with a bear at 10 feet. Lions will be on you before you even know they are there. These things happen at a speed that is way beyond comprehension. The real trick is situational awareness and avoidance, because you're almost certain to come out on the crunchy end of a surprise animal charge. Recognizing the threat and having your gun out in time is a huge part of the equation. You will probably only get one or two aimed shots, so make sure whatever you bring, it is something you practice with from a holster and shoot well. A hit in the brain from a .357 hard cast beats a miss with a .700 T-Rex, and a magical bear death ray does no good if it is still in your holster at the moment of truth.

Outside of Grizz country, I pack my Nighthawk 1911 w/ 230gr FMJ because I tend to be more scared of some of the weirdos I run in to, and especially of the drug plots here in CA (thankfully haven't run into one yet). I shoot this pistol constantly, it is like an extension of my being, and it gives me great confidence that I could deal with two legged critters quite well, and could probably score a CNS hit with a furry four legged one, too. I've considered a Glock 21, for the higher capacity and lighter weight, but I just don't shoot them nearly as well. In Griz/Brown Bear country I pack my 629 in .44 mag because it is the best tool for the main problem I anticipate (bears) and will do the job for most other less likely problems just as well. I carry my Kel-Tec P32 in Nevada casinos when I CCW because that deals well with my main problem of being asked to leave if I print at all. Anticipate the most likely issue, and plan accordingly.

Again, only hits count. "Fast is fine, but accuracy is final," as Wyatt Earp used to say. Pick the best handgun you are confident to hit your target with and that would be your first choice to deal with the most likely threat you anticipate. Then, pack a 12ga with slugs, because that is far and away the best, most versatile back country gun ever invented.

tbhracing
07-14-2010, 12:37 PM
I know I will catch heat for this, but pretty much all of my hand guns are 9mm. And I rarely go into bear areas. But if I did, I would still take the Glock 9mm. Why? Like most people here, I dont have the money or care to buy a big bore pistol for maybe a one time use. I also carry hi-caps, so maybe I will get some extra rounds off. :o

I do however have an 870, so there is a reasonable solution. Reading over the other posts, I see someone did kill a mama bear with a 9mm, so....well...there we go.

And- unless I missed it, any stories of a .38 on bears? Just curious.

Thanks and I will be expected to get flamed her in about 10 minutes.

mif_slim
07-14-2010, 12:45 PM
I know I will catch heat for this, but pretty much all of my hand guns are 9mm. And I rarely go into bear areas. But if I did, I would still take the Glock 9mm. Why? Like most people here, I dont have the money or care to buy a big bore pistol for maybe a one time use. I also carry hi-caps, so maybe I will get some extra rounds off. :o

I do however have an 870, so there is a reasonable solution. Reading over the other posts, I see someone did kill a mama bear with a 9mm, so....well...there we go.

And- unless I missed it, any stories of a .38 on bears? Just curious.

Thanks and I will be expected to get flamed her in about 10 minutes.

:56:

8 minutes. lol

Lead-Thrower
07-14-2010, 1:18 PM
Does anyone here pack a 12 gage with them when they go hiking/backpacking? I am curious as to how doable this is...

GM_77
07-14-2010, 1:29 PM
I know I will catch heat for this, but pretty much all of my hand guns are 9mm. And I rarely go into bear areas. But if I did, I would still take the Glock 9mm. Why? Like most people here, I dont have the money or care to buy a big bore pistol for maybe a one time use. I also carry hi-caps, so maybe I will get some extra rounds off. :o

I do however have an 870, so there is a reasonable solution. Reading over the other posts, I see someone did kill a mama bear with a 9mm, so....well...there we go.

And- unless I missed it, any stories of a .38 on bears? Just curious.

Thanks and I will be expected to get flamed her in about 10 minutes.

You did

9mm vs Grizzley Bear (Funny what the guy with the shotgun did) (http://www.peninsulaclarion.com/stories/081902/ala_081602ala0040001.shtml)

.38 vs Polar Bear


BEAR KILLED TO SAVE MAN WHO PUT ARM INTO CAGE
By Martin Gansberg
THE NEW YORK TIMES
June 6, 1971

A polar bear at the Central Park Zoo was shot dead by a policeman yesterday after the animal sank his teeth into the arm of a man who had reached into his cage.
Witnesses in the crowded zoo said the man had jumped over a three-foot protective rail in front of the cage and then pushed his hand between the cages bars, above a three-foot cyclone fence that is additional protection for visitors.
Screams from the gathering crowd as the bear seized the man’s hand drew Patrolman Charles Dlugokecki of the Central Park Precinct. The patrolman shot the 6 year-old animal in the chest after he and the zoo attendant tried unsuccessfully to free the man by firing shots in the air and pushing the bear with a stick.
The injured man, Oliver Jones, 29 years old, of 355 East 10th Street, was taken to Lenox Hill Hospital, where he was admitted for treatment of a bone fracture, cuts and shock.
“I couldn’t tell whether he was trying to feed the bear or just tease him,” one witness said. “The animal came right toward him, around the little pool there to the fence. It grabbed his hand fast.”
“There must have been 200 people there,” said Patrolman Dlugokecki, who had been making his rounds of the zoo at 12:30 P.M. “They were all yelling. I could see this man, his arm between the bars of the cage, struggling to free it from the mouth of the bear.”
The patrolman said he had jumped over the protective rail and tried to push the bear, named Skandy, away from Mr. Jones.
“Nothing worked,” Patrolman Dlugokecki said. “I took out my gun and fired a shot in the air, hoping the animal would let go. Instead it pulled in more of the man’s hand, up to his wrist.”
At that point Eddie Rodriquez, the lionkeeper at the zoo, went to help the patrolman. He started pushing the bear with a stick, but to no avail.
“I fired another shot in the air,” Patrolman Dlugokecki said. “The bear sucked in more of the man’s hand, right up to the forearm. I made up my mind I’d have to shoot the bear.”
As Mr. Rodriquez pushed at Skandy with the stick, the policeman fired into the left side of the animal’s chest. The bear let go of Mr. Jones’s hand, staggered back and fell dead against the fence of an adjacent unoccupied cage.
There was an audible sigh of relief from the people in the crowd, out for a visit to the zoo on the warm, pleasant day. Some took pictures of the scene, others pulled youngsters away so they would not see the dead bear.
“He was quite docile,” said Jack DeLease, the special animal agent who planned to remove the carcass last night. “But you know how bored caged animals get. Put a toy before them ““ something to attract them ““ and they’ll go for it, take it right in their mouths.”
Witnesses at yesterday’s incident were not certain whether Mr. Jones had been attempting to feed Skandy or was teasing him. But Mr. Rodriquez, the lionkeeper, said: “This man was bothering the animals. I just chased him from another area. He was teasing them.”
The bear was born in 1965 in Sweden and came to the Central park Zoo in April, 1970.
“It was awful,” said Robert Johnson of 154 East 91st Street, who had watched the struggle. “The bear wouldn’t let go and the man was hollering. He had been teasing the bear. He must have been crazy.”

“˜I Didn’t Dare Help’

Another witness, Joe Rivera of 1976 Vyse Avenue, the Bronx, said: “I was standing right next to him. I didn’t dare help him. He asked for it - he put his hand through. It says on the signs not to feed the animals.”
The incident was not the first of this kind at the zoo. In July, 1944, two couples broke into the zoo at 2 A.M. and climbed over the protective rail to bait a polar bear. The animal tore off the forearm of Catherine Searles, 24, of 1155 Park Avenue, before it was pulled away. That bear, named Soc, weighed 500 pounds and was seven feet tall.
Before Mr. Jones was taken to the hospital yesterday, he was treated for gashes at the Central Park police station. “I don’t know what he was thinking,” said Patrolman Dlugokecki. “I gave him a summons for feeding the animals. It’s illegal, you know.”

k1dude
07-14-2010, 1:55 PM
Does anyone here pack a 12 gage with them when they go hiking/backpacking? I am curious as to how doable this is...

It's not fun. Having chased game birds all over the earth for miles on end in the mountains and hills, I can tell you it's a b**ch. It's also a lot harder to get a slung shotgun into firing position than a handgun. Running around with a shotgun slung over your gear also gets you strange and fearful looks from other people you encounter. A handgun might not even get noticed.

Another problem with a long gun is you had better hit your target before the animal reaches you or you're toast. You can't maneuver a long gun in a wrestling match. A 4" or less revolver in at least .41 mag is what you want if you're in the grasp. If you're in the grasp you're probably toast anyway, but with a short barreled revolver at least you have a fighting chance.

Lugging shotguns and slugs is not my idea of a good time unless you aren't going too far. But, I'm a weight weenie when it comes to backpacking.

mif_slim
07-14-2010, 1:58 PM
It's not fun. Having chased game birds all over the earth for miles on end in the mountains and hills, I can tell you it's a b**ch. It's also a lot harder to get a slung shotgun into firing position than a handgun. Running around with a shotgun slung over your gear also gets you strange and fearful looks from other people you encounter. A handgun might not even get noticed.

Another problem with a long gun is you had better hit your target before the animal reaches you or you're toast. You can't maneuver a long gun in a wrestling match. A 4" or less revolver in at least .41 mag is what you want if you're in the grasp. If you're in the grasp you're probably toast anyway, but with a short barreled revolver at least you have a fighting chance.

Lugging shotguns and slugs is not my idea of a good time unless you aren't going too far. But, I'm a weight weenie when it comes to backpacking.

Not really...I can get it up pretty quick. ;)

k1dude
07-14-2010, 2:26 PM
Not really...I can get it up pretty quick. ;)

Schwing! :)

John Browning
07-14-2010, 2:59 PM
Does anyone here pack a 12 gage with them when they go hiking/backpacking? I am curious as to how doable this is...

I do in Idaho, Wyoming, Montana and Alaska on fishing and camping trips. I only go to Canada to hunt, so I've already got a rifle so no need for a shotgun. It is very doable, and IMHO very necessary in Brown Bear country. The only time it really sucks is on long pack trips, but I commit the sin of packing the shotgun that makes it hard to access for the convience of having a better pack weight distribution. It still is the first thing to come out at camp and is easy to take on short excursions.

ECVMatt
07-14-2010, 11:15 PM
I hike, hunt and fish up there all the time; your .45 will be fine. There are some big bears up there, but they don't seem to bother folks much. I would load up with a good FMJ and have fun. Mammoth bears are not the same as AK bears and are more used to being around people (this could be good and bad). If you camp clean, are aware of your surroundings, and don't panic if you see a bear, chances are you will be fine.

Have fun and enjoy

thayne
07-14-2010, 11:43 PM
My experience with black bears are they are pretty mellow. I was pig hunting one time and one walked right in front of me, not 10 feet away. He stopped and looked at me, then went on his way. A female with a cub could be another story though.

Ive heard bells scare them away. They make dog bear bells you can put on your dogs collar. Id stick with bear spray or take a rifle.

Id be more worried about mountain lions than bears

Sunday
07-15-2010, 10:41 AM
The other day, I watched the video posted in another section here on Calguns about the guy and his wife who live in Alaska in the middle of nowhere. He has many guns. When he needs to kill a bear, he takes a 12 ga with slugs.

Up close.

Sunday
07-15-2010, 10:45 AM
Bear spray!!! a bear far away is more or less not a threat . When the bear gets within doing damage to you distance a gun may not be the best choice because if the bear takes time to die after being shot you may not survive the confrontation. A 45acp will do the job on bears.

tbhracing
07-15-2010, 11:38 AM
What about wasp spray if you have it?

aermotor
07-15-2010, 12:17 PM
It doesn't really help you since you've got a 1911, but 10mm is the way to go when in the woods. Get a Glock 21 (.45) and a conversion barrel to 10mm so you can have it multi-purposed.

This is the best answer imo, though Bear Spray would be a god idea as well in case of attack.


I've had plenty of bears come into camp deep hunting as a kid. We always had one of these on the ready. One toot from these babies and bears don't run, they fly away.

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_019390_imageset_01?$main-Large$

Lead-Thrower
07-15-2010, 1:57 PM
When I go hiking, I usually carry one of those horns, along with my KA-BAR.

5shot
07-15-2010, 2:01 PM
Bear Spray didn't help this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjkTmE--Ntg&feature=fvw


I've been going to Mammoth for around 25 years, and own a second home (condo) there. Bears are about as common as dogs there. The town has a "no shoot" zone that surrounds the town and lakes basin, so there's no hunting pressure on the local bears. It's very common to see bears everyday if you fish the lakes in the evenings, or camp around the lakes. For the most part their pretty docile, but a few get too comfortable around people and attempt to bully people. They know most people are scarred of them, so they use it to their advantage. Usually a mother with cubs will walk the shoreline when people are fishing. When the people back away, or get in their cars, the mother bear will find their stringer, step on the stinger and pull the fish off. There was another bear who hung around one of the back country lakes trails. When he saw hikers he'd bluff charge them. After they'd drop their backpacks and ran, he'd tear open the packs and eat their food.
The local bear control officer tries to monitor the population pretty well, and problem bears are removed. But there's always the small chance that you may encounter a problem bear. And there are some big bears in Mammoth. They hit all the restaurant and condo dumpsters, and eat pretty well. I've seen a few that will go about 500 pounds, which is very big for a black bear. Then you see a lot of small ones that go about 150-200 pounds. (The big bears usually chase other bears away from their favorite eating spots.)

A good article on bear handguns from expert bear hunters.
http://www.foggymountain.com/handgun-bear-hunting.shtml

1911Luvr
07-15-2010, 2:24 PM
My one closeup experience with California black bears happened while skiing. I was doing a bit of back country spring skiing after a March storm several years back when I skied down the side of a canyon and immediately stopped when I saw a black bear, which I instantly understood to be a female when I saw a little one 30 feet behind it. I then went into my bear defense mode which for me is simply clenching my butt cheeks in hopes of not dirtying my ski pants, and just watched as they plodded on past me. I was locked into downhill skis in a foot of fresh powder, so running wasn't an option and having been stopped I wasn't going to ski fast enough to get away anyway. After they ignored me and continued on their way I found a tree to water (funny how I never had to go until the bears showed up), and then skied quickly to the bottom and hiked out. I had always thought bears are supposed to be asleep in winter (ok so March is Spring but whatever) so I never gave it a second thought until this happened. In any case, I'm glad to have not accidentally skied in between them, but looking back they hardly seemed like the worrysome beasts they are made out to be. Of course I might feel differently if this had been Alaska or Canada, and perhaps I was just lucky, but that experience didn't inspire me to carry a sidearm while in the back country in winter.

Now that said, I would certainly carry in summer as I have seen mountain lions and they scare me far more than those black bears. Fortunately mountain lions seem to be much less bold than bears when it comes to invading camp sites and other occupied places. In any case, I don't think anyone going to Mammoth or other CA mountains needs to be worried about bears to the point of carrying a shotgun, etc. Just be smart, be loud (my other non-closeup experiences with CA bears was as simple as making noise to scare them off) and if you need a sidearm to feel comfortable then bring it. I seriously doubt that unless you panic and shoot at the first sight of the bear, you will have any need for your pistol to keep you safe from CA bears. But, like the old saying goes, "an ounce of prevention..."

BuckTurgidson
07-15-2010, 2:46 PM
Bear Spray didn't help this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjkTmE--Ntg&feature=fvw

Would be very interested in how you can be certain from the evidence presented in the video - a spot of concentrated spray in the snow - that the victim actually deployed the spray at the attacking bear.

5shot
07-15-2010, 3:06 PM
Would be very interested in how you can be certain from the evidence presented in the video - a spot of concentrated spray in the snow - that the victim actually deployed the spray at the attacking bear.

Watch the whole National Geographic show that short clip was from. You'd also see the 2 female hikers who emptied a can of bear spray and still got mauled.

bigbob76
07-15-2010, 3:54 PM
Would be very interested in how you can be certain from the evidence presented in the video - a spot of concentrated spray in the snow - that the victim actually deployed the spray at the attacking bear.

Are you an attorney or something?:)

BuckTurgidson
07-15-2010, 4:48 PM
Are you an attorney or something?:)
No, but I play one on TV.

Flouncer
07-15-2010, 8:26 PM
:party:

Shoot a Bear, go to jail. Or at least pay a fine, lose your toy. Are you guys serious ??

:7:

mif_slim
07-15-2010, 8:46 PM
^ wait, black bear are on the endanger list?!?

how come dfg sells tags for them?!? it must be black market. lol

Flouncer
07-15-2010, 9:03 PM
Did the OP mention anything about hunting bear in season with a license and a tag ???

k1dude
07-15-2010, 9:20 PM
Did the OP mention anything about hunting bear in season with a license and a tag ???

Defending yourself against an attacking bear will not get you in trouble with the law.

bigbob76
07-15-2010, 11:18 PM
:party:

Shoot a Bear, go to jail. Or at least pay a fine, lose your toy. Are you guys serious ??

:7:

Come on Flouncer, this is the internet. Do you think anybody would BS you? It's all true, the check is in the mail, the house is paid for, it's only a cold sore.;)

tbhracing
07-15-2010, 11:27 PM
I love you, the check is in the mail and I wont...you know the rest.

nn3453
07-15-2010, 11:34 PM
Stating the obvious (anyone who has been around Bruin knows), stow away your food properly, get some spray, potent bear spray if you can. Leave your 45 for use against other predators.

luchador768
07-16-2010, 1:33 PM
The last time I was in Mammoth two years ago we encountered several bears over five days, each time we were less than 30 feet from the bears. The bears in Mammoth are not afraid of people, and they usually are not aggressive. I saw a 50 year old woman bonk a bear in the nose with her fly rod when he got too close. He just slowly wandered off. Give them room and make a lot of noise when you hike. I would do everything in my power to avoid shooting one.

Ron-Solo
07-16-2010, 5:43 PM
The last time I was in Mammoth two years ago we encountered several bears over five days, each time we were less than 30 feet from the bears. The bears in Mammoth are not afraid of people, and they usually are not aggressive. I saw a 50 year old woman bonk a bear in the nose with her fly rod when he got too close. He just slowly wandered off. Give them room and make a lot of noise when you hike. I would do everything in my power to avoid shooting one.

THIS!

Quit hating Yogi & Boo Boo. You are a visitor in their home. Don't do stupid things and you won't have problems.

I worked a rural area years ago and handled two incidents where a camper had supposedly shot a bear "in self defense" but in actuality one bear was shot in the back while crossing a trail and the other was raiding an ice chest that was left out and wasn't threatening anyone. Both shooters went to jail, lost their guns and had lots of legal headaches.

If you shoot a bear outside of a licensed hunt, be prepared to justify your shooting like it was a human that you just shot. Except with a bear, you wound him and he'll tear you apart.

advocatusdiaboli
07-16-2010, 6:10 PM
The guides who guide in Alaska's backcountry, which has a very high concentration of Grizzly Bears, don't even bother with pistols--they use 12 gauge shotguns with slugs. Personally, I'd use what the pros use (I'd use a 2 3/4" or 3" round 12 gauge slug in a no-fail pump action shotgun) and use the handgun as the last resort SHTF backup. But I camp in the Eastern Sierra all the time including climbing trips from remote trail heads and I have never in 20 years been attacked by a Black Bear. However, I am in remote areas whee the bears are fearful. In civilized campgrounds the bears might be more bold having become used to humans. I do not fear them but I'd take a shotgun with slugs and keep it in reach after dark in the wee hours when they usually forage.

451040
07-17-2010, 4:24 AM
You are a visitor in their home.

:rolleyes:

Greg-Dawg
07-17-2010, 5:01 AM
The bear will win.

Get a Glock 20 or an RPG to stop a bear threat.

Flouncer
07-17-2010, 8:13 AM
If some IDIOT shoots bear that is in his "campsite", he is not being attacked or "defending hmself." Go ahead and try, shoot a bear, just go do it and quit being an internet wussie :) Oh, and use a pistol with 400 ft/lbs of energy. :eek: Save the last one for yourself.

Shoot the bear with your .45, and come back here an post up. Go for it !!! :)

This just happened in El Dorado NAt'l Forest by Union Valley Resevoir. Doorstep to the Rubicon Trail. The guy wasn't prosecuted, there was no need to. :sleeping: The bear did it for us. The bear, a bear, was tracked down and destroyed by DFG a few days later. I'll dig up the link for you.

http://cbs5.com/pets/bear.attacks.camper.2.1786081.html

kellito
07-17-2010, 10:09 AM
If some IDIOT shoots bear that is in his "campsite", he is not being attacked or "defending hmself." Go ahead and try, shoot a bear, just go do it and quit being an internet wussie :) Oh, and use a pistol with 400 ft/lbs of energy. :eek: Save the last one for yourself.

Shoot the bear with your .45, and come back here an post up. Go for it !!! :)

This just happened in El Dorado NAt'l Forest by Union Valley Resevoir. Doorstep to the Rubicon Trail. The guy wasn't prosecuted, there was no need to. :sleeping: The bear did it for us. The bear, a bear, was tracked down and destroyed by DFG a few days later. I'll dig up the link for you.

http://cbs5.com/pets/bear.attacks.camper.2.1786081.html

According to the link, he scared off the bear by firing a shot. He did not shoot the bear. Wondering why you think there is anything to prosecute him for, was it because his face impeded the bears freedom of movement? Making noise? Bleeding? That jerk.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tbhracing
07-17-2010, 10:19 AM
Why shoot the bear? He is just here for lunch...

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs133.snc1/5689_570420281220_19910530_33590844_4274753_n.jpg

BuckTurgidson
07-17-2010, 4:45 PM
http://i1026.photobucket.com/albums/y328/BuckTurgidson69/Wildlife/BlkBearPicnicTable2.jpg

k1dude
07-17-2010, 4:57 PM
If some IDIOT shoots bear that is in his "campsite", he is not being attacked or "defending hmself." Go ahead and try, shoot a bear, just go do it and quit being an internet wussie :) Oh, and use a pistol with 400 ft/lbs of energy. :eek: Save the last one for yourself.

Shoot the bear with your .45, and come back here an post up. Go for it !!! :)

This just happened in El Dorado NAt'l Forest by Union Valley Resevoir. Doorstep to the Rubicon Trail. The guy wasn't prosecuted, there was no need to. :sleeping: The bear did it for us. The bear, a bear, was tracked down and destroyed by DFG a few days later. I'll dig up the link for you.

http://cbs5.com/pets/bear.attacks.camper.2.1786081.html

Nice way to introduce yourself to Calguns. Why don't you go somewhere else to torment people if you can't play nice. If you don't like guns, self defense, or hunting, you're in the wrong place.

Flouncer
07-21-2010, 5:03 PM
Nice way to introduce yourself to Calguns. Why don't you go somewhere else to torment people if you can't play nice. If you don't like guns, self defense, or hunting, you're in the wrong place.

Chill out. No one is tormented, unless it's you :sleeping: Im here because of the 2nd amendment and I like to shoot. The concept is retarded. You dont think I'm nice, but I am really :) You may not like my post, but thats the way it is. Shooting campground Yogi and Boo boo is simply stupid internet talk. Thats why I said just go do it. Thousands of people are confronted by bears while camping. They get through it. No need to bring the media on dumbness by shooting one. And yes, in most cases, you will get the law after you. Go do it. No talk, action. Go do it. Go find out. As I said, report back.

They never reported whether he shot the bear or not. He said he fired to scare it away. Riiiighhht. Sure mister. It's a coward's way out. Judging by the fact that it mauled him, I would wager he shot it. I'll say it again, shooting a black bear in California because it's in your campsite is retarded. If someone is tormented by being reminded of that, they are in the wrong place, not me.

Translated into English, that involves neither self defense or hunting. Only a serious lack of judgement.

FWIW I used to hunt also. Deer, with a license, with a tag, and in season.:eek:

eastershawn
07-21-2010, 8:13 PM
If some IDIOT shoots bear that is in his "campsite", he is not being attacked or "defending hmself." Go ahead and try, shoot a bear, just go do it and quit being an internet wussie :) Oh, and use a pistol with 400 ft/lbs of energy. :eek: Save the last one for yourself.

Shoot the bear with your .45, and come back here an post up. Go for it !!! :)

This just happened in El Dorado NAt'l Forest by Union Valley Resevoir. Doorstep to the Rubicon Trail. The guy wasn't prosecuted, there was no need to. :sleeping: The bear did it for us. The bear, a bear, was tracked down and destroyed by DFG a few days later. I'll dig up the link for you.

http://cbs5.com/pets/bear.attacks.camper.2.1786081.html

ok, youre right, ill just let a bear kill me and my family. thanks for opening my eyes to the truth since you know everything. by the way, read the original question

hasserl
07-22-2010, 4:04 PM
Over-penetration isn't something you need to worry about with bears, so I'd leave the HP at home, just aim at the chest or head and hope you hit the heart or brain, even tho I doubt the .45 will crack a bears skull

You don't want to aim at the heart of a bear. Bears have a very slow heart rate, which means aiming for center mass is the wrong target. Even if you hit it square on a charging bear will be able to continue and complete it's charge before it bleeds out. In this case your target is the central nervous system. Sever that and the bear will drop immediately.

See the picture below, that big gaping mouth, that is your target. Not the chest, not center mass, not the heart. The head, the mouth, shoot to the back of the throat if you can. That's you best bet.

You'll be dead if you shoot a bear with a 45ACP.

But on the bright side...

http://www.common-sense-politics.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/gun-control-better-than-camera.jpg

dadoody
07-22-2010, 4:40 PM
In truth, it's all about shot placement:

8Ab4fZiXJqo

If you can't hit what you're aiming at, keep practicing.

jimmykan
07-22-2010, 4:52 PM
I just read in the Armed Citizen section of the latest American Rifleman magazine of exactly this situation!

A guy and his girl were in the woods, and they stumbled onto some bear sign. They tried to retreat, but a grizzly bear appeared and started chasing them.

The guy killed the bear with 9 rounds of 45ACP.

P.S. I wonder why he stopped at 9 shots... Maybe he had a topped-off locked-and-loaded single stack 1911 with an 8-round magazine!

Flouncer
07-22-2010, 4:52 PM
by the way, read the original question

m going camping in mammoth lakes area and bringing my full size 1911 just in case of bears. what bullets should i bring? 230 grain fmj or 230 grain hollow points? Will the fmj have deeper penetration but not enough damage? will the hollow points have greater damage but not enough penetration? i realize other guns would be more effective against bears, but i only want to bring my 1911. thanks

I really didn't mean to get anyone grumpy. I think my posts are directly topic centric. I really want some of you to really think about doing the right thing. Use good sound judgement. In that spirit, I submit respectully and thoughtfully, that taking a .45 ACp for camping bear protection is not a good idea.

Probably breaking several laws across state and Federal agency boundaries by shooting it.

It's not enough gun.

The potential for violence is much greater if you wound an animal by shooting it with an anemic handgun cartridge. The resultant violence will be much greater upon the delivery agent than the recipient.

If I heard a handgun go off in my campground I will get the Law, ASAP. :eek: And bear ( pun intended) witness in a court of law for the prosecution.

As I said, and remaining undisputed, is that bear rumaging through, eating and destroying your property in a campground is not cause for self defense.

Most parks and campgrounds have bear lockers. It is a violation of posted regulations to not use them.

The number of people hurt by bears in campgrounds in California is really small. Probably less than the number of people that fall of their stool typing junk on the web. If anyone has the data about UNPROVOKED bear attacks in campgrounds in California, please post it up.

So I'll tone it down. It's not retarded. It's a bad choice. Please use good judgement when shooting at ANYTHING.

rumblebee
07-22-2010, 5:22 PM
I'm only looking for a pi-ci-nic basket!!!

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l464/rumblebee_album/d252d0a2.jpg

THIS!

Quit hating Yogi & Boo Boo. You are a visitor in their home. Don't do stupid things and you won't have problems.

I worked a rural area years ago and handled two incidents where a camper had supposedly shot a bear "in self defense" but in actuality one bear was shot in the back while crossing a trail and the other was raiding an ice chest that was left out and wasn't threatening anyone. Both shooters went to jail, lost their guns and had lots of legal headaches.

If you shoot a bear outside of a licensed hunt, be prepared to justify your shooting like it was a human that you just shot. Except with a bear, you wound him and he'll tear you apart.

dadoody
07-22-2010, 5:42 PM
If you're not hunting bears, and simply want defend, I would suggest bear spray. A big fire extinguisher can of it. Firearm should be used after.

Unless you like shooting bears. Then go nuts. I like bears though. I know they'll rip my face off if given the chance, but they're so fuzzy.

resident-shooter
07-22-2010, 5:53 PM
This is a perfect example of why I think .45 is so overrated. 700 lbs bear vs a slow 200 grain bullet? Stick with a 12ga 000 buck y0

oakiepokie
08-03-2010, 10:41 PM
Do not worry about bear attacks around Mammoth. I just came back and I made it in 1 piece, no horror stories, no close encounters, no crazy bears out to get humans! Oh, did I mentioned I found no human remains as a result of hungry bears either? Pack as light as possible and instead pack fishing gear (orange and pink worms worked best), the lakes and fishing are just unreal!

LIVE WITHOUT FEAR!!!

lazs
08-03-2010, 11:38 PM
You should avoid shooting bears. If you wish to or have to.. you should have a revolver in at least 44 mag.

Ranger20
08-04-2010, 12:15 AM
Years past when there were more bears... I Hiked devils postpile to thousand Island lakes... and beyond. Spent a lot of time up there...

Forget the 45acp. It's not necessary... and a whimpy cart. for bears. You are just going to piss em off.. and get f'd up.

The bears if you even see one... Doubtful... will leave you alone unless you smell like a meal aka coleman cooler... If you must take a firearm... Solids and I guess you'd be better served by the 357mag or bigger but mostly you got to think about weight and the 2 legged critters than Yogi Bear...

Bring along some bear spray heck just bang some pans together.. they will usually take off. The 45acp is no hand howitzer some think it is. The human being is thin skinned.. and sometimes can soak up a magful of 45 and live.. Now think about a true bruin even the medium size black bear... you may eventually kill him but I'd wager he will if shot kill you long before he goes down.

Just my opinion and worth what ya paid for it. have fun up there it;s beautiful country.. Leave it better than you found it..

cornflake
08-09-2010, 1:43 AM
And yes, most times I've encountered bears they run off. But one time it came after me. And it only takes one time.

Could not agree more. Never really thought much about owning a firearm... That all changed the day I become a father. Failure to protect my child is simply not an option, regardless if it's against a bad guy, a bear or whatever...

B

DannyInSoCal
09-10-2010, 10:34 AM
As a life long Green Bay Packer fan -

Bears and Lions are obviously afraid of end zones.

Paint your capsite like an end zone and you'll be safe.....

Thanx, DISC

Joe'Bronco
09-10-2010, 12:14 PM
Bears are really not all that hard to kill. Its all about shot placement. High Chest and head shots wont do a bit of good. Aim for behind the shoulder (if possible) or a LOW chest shot. If a stick with a sharp rock on the end going 170 FPS can kill a bear, a well placed .45 chunk of lead can too.


Dont believe me? Look at my avatar...

http://forums.mathewsinc.com/images/userpix/572_7224_5009_Blackie_Diagram_1_1_1.jpg

POLICESTATE
09-10-2010, 12:19 PM
For bear I would rather take a 12gauge with rifled barrel and sabot slugs.

Joe'Bronco
09-10-2010, 12:21 PM
Its funny how even on a shooting site, people get there panties in a bunch when you talk about shooting a bear in self defence.

Im a hunter (obviously) and while i dont suggest shooting a bear with ANY type of handgun, a bear CAN be killed with a 1911. A 30.06 or a bow works the best in my neck of the woods but i agree that a it would be hard to explane a shotgun or a rifle as a self defence weapon to a warden. Shot placement is key as i stated above, but it is hard to make a good shot with your pants wet and brown crap running down your leg.

Bear spray works great! That way the bear can have a nice peppery afternoon snack.


Bears in CA wont attack you unless you mess with the cubs. Yes they are cute and fuzzy and relatively harmless, but STAY away from them. Chances are you will never even see a bear. But if you mess with the cubs you will soon be looking at a 600lbs momma eating your leg and no amount of pepper-spray or bullets that one (scare ****less) person can throw will stop a large bear that size full of adrenaline.


In all seriousness, you should be more worried about the Mountain lions than Yogi...




As a life long Green Bay Packer fan -

Bears and Lions are obviously afraid of end zones.

Paint your capsite like an end zone and you'll be safe.....

Thanx, DISC


Quote of the DAY!!!