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jdtran82
07-12-2010, 8:39 PM
I am planning to go do some camping and varmint hunting(rabbits) in San Bernardino this weekend and i want to follow all the rules. I will be using my ar-15 chambered in 5.56 and want to know how many rounds are allowed in the magazine and should i carry my rifle in a soft case into the hunting zone as to not scare other hikers/campers?

theseacow
07-12-2010, 9:14 PM
no limit.

Purple K
07-12-2010, 9:19 PM
The ten round limit applies and make yourself familiar with the lead-free ammo reg's (center-fire vs. rim-fire, game vs. non-game).

bigboarstopper
07-12-2010, 9:24 PM
there wont be much left of a wabbit from a 223 or 566 nato.

LloydXmas250
07-12-2010, 9:42 PM
If you're going into SBNF you may want to get your hands on a firearm map. A lot of SBNF is shotgun only cause of the amounts of houses within it. Make sure you're in a rifle area before you go. Also, make sure you're using lead-core rounds.

ScottB
07-13-2010, 7:30 AM
How many rounds do you really need? (correct answer: 1 or 2, no more than 3 or 4, or you're not ready to kill animals)

Hunting is not combat.

professionalcoyotehunter
07-13-2010, 1:59 PM
What if there are 30 coyotes coming in at one time?:D

ZX-10R
07-13-2010, 2:08 PM
California stole your rights to load as many as possible into a magazine that holds 30.

Load 10...Why load 3-4? That is not smart...Don't say weight because you are a grown man and 223 is not even as heavy as 7.62x54 or x39.

theseacow
07-13-2010, 2:34 PM
California stole your rights to load as many as possible into a magazine that holds 30.

Load 10...Why load 3-4? That is not smart...Don't say weight because you are a grown man and 223 is not even as heavy as 7.62x54 or x39.

why load 10? if you have a legal magazine that holds 30, why not load 30?

77bawls
07-13-2010, 3:19 PM
why load 10? if you have a legal magazine that holds 30, why not load 30?

Sure as long as it's not an AR with a BB

lewdogg21
07-13-2010, 3:28 PM
why load 10? if you have a legal magazine that holds 30, why not load 30?
Featureless build for the win!

Baxter
07-13-2010, 9:39 PM
There is no limit for hunting with a rifle. IF you have a featurless build than 30 or 100 is fine. If you a bullet button equipt rifle then 10rds is the limit.
A shotgun you can only have three rounds total. One in the chamber and two in the mag tube, but that is only for game animals. For coyotes you can take the plug out. Hope that helps.
Too the guys who says 1-3 rds is enough, try hunting squeeks and dropping mags after every round or two.

jaymz
07-13-2010, 9:46 PM
^^^What Baxter said. I'd like to add that I sling my AR over my shoulder just like I do when I have a bolt action with me. Not at all concerned with "scaring the hikers".

ScottB
07-14-2010, 12:03 PM
Too the guys who says 1-3 rds is enough, try hunting squeeks and dropping mags after every round or two.

I have a couple RAWs and can use any size magazine I want. I have 30's and 5's as well. I think the few times I have used my AR on squirrells I used the 5's. Its a question of purpose. 99% of the time I hunt with bolt action rifles and single shot T/C Contenders as they are better designed for the job. Look at the limitations on shooting from rests with a big magazine hanging down. A bipod or sticks are good sometimes, but not always. A good tactical design is not a particularly good hunting design for several reasons. If it was, the snipers would be using an AR platform. In addition, the standard configured blaster is just not as accurate as a good hunting rifle. Yes I know you can dial in a lot of accuracy and configure them as varmint rifles, but from the previous posts I assume we are not talking about that. Even with varmints, hunting is about slow, deliberate, aimed shots and even then, not all that many in the course of a day. Someone has to be pretty damn lazy to think reloading or changing mags under those circumstances is a chore.

Baxter
07-14-2010, 3:01 PM
I guess you have never hunted my squeeks area. With a 17 I go through 100-150 rds no problem in a couple of hours. With a 22 probably more. If I am hunting deer, not so much, I still load gun to capacity. There are some strange folks out in the boonies.
It just boils down to different opions. Do what you want and be happy.

CavTrooper
07-14-2010, 3:14 PM
99% of the time I hunt with bolt action rifles and single shot T/C Contenders as they are better designed for the job

WHY?

A good tactical design is not a particularly good hunting design for several reasons.

Again, WHY?

If it was, the snipers would be using an AR platform.

Um... welcome to 2010, the AR platform is the standard for the new Miitary sniper rifles.

In addition, the standard configured blaster is just not as accurate as a good hunting rifle.

Ill go ahead and challenge that assertion, any time you want to prove it, Ill hit the range with ya.

Not sure how much firearms or hunting experience you have with the AR platform, but I can tell you for certain that the AR is one of the best suited rifles for hunting. Durable, reliable, accurate, versatile and lightweight. Which is why it is the most popular hunting rifle in America (does not apply to California).

ScottB
07-14-2010, 4:16 PM
Unless the squeeks amount to about 85% or better of the rounds expended, I'd say your time would be better spent at a range.

We'll see how widespread the "new" sniper rifles are. Look at the Beretta pistols - every special ops guy blew them off for 1911s and SIGS. Weapons get "adopted' all the time. Doesn't mean the old ones go away.

Like I said, I have ARs (good ones) and bolts. In their standard configurations, I'll take a bolt action for range, accuracy and caliber choice any day. If you are wedded to the Tacticool stuff, have at it. I think they are a lot fun for plinking and if the ChiComs ever land, I suppose I'll be glad I have them. I saw my first AR in the early 70's. I have yet to see an AR or AW of any type in the field when any real hunting is going on.

The unwritten subtext here is very often "Gee, how can I rationalize dressing up like a paramilitary wannabe and run around blasting everything that moves and not get arrested." It comes up all the time. No matter what the issue, many of you guys think some tacticool manstopper semi-combat weapon is the ideal solution. Humans die easy, generally at close range. Animals can take a hit and generally at much farther range. There's a thread in the handgun forum with guys saying 9mm amd .45 acp's are good for shooting bears WTF? I have lots of each and I'd carry one for pot growers and Manson types, but bears? The right tool for the job is always a good prescription

The way we present ourselves in the field has a lot to with how we are perceived by the public (and susequently how we fair in policy debates and elections) as well as how we are treated by LEOs. I run into guys at times all trussed up like Rambo, wearing military not hunting camo, 30-rounders hanging out of AWs, extra mags hanging off the belts molle packs. Other guys look like gangbanging thugs or bikers. Most are decent guys, but a little self awareness would go along way. Some the stories I hear about bad encounters with wardens and LEOs, those guys need to look in the mirror and ask, what kind of first impression are they making? LEOs size up a contact in about 5 seconds and if you look like trouble, you will have a whole different experiece. And before anyone goes off on a "I gotta right" jag, I stipulate, yes, you do, but we are not talking about rights here and a warden or a cop can really screw up your day if he wants to, just because. Perceptions count. They are a lot more nervous when they are looking at a militia type coming at them and they are wondering where the rest of the squad is. You may be cool as beans to your buds, but come off like idiots and yahoos (possibly threatening dangerous ones) to others - who in turn act accordingly. I am not speculating. I hear these concerns from people as they relate encounters. So if you are going to take an AR or other AW-type weapon hunting, you might consider the tactical wisdom of using short mags, sporting sights or optics, controlling your rate of fire and leaving the militaria home. So use an AR if thats what floats your boat, but please control the overall image you present.

Let the flaming begin.

CavTrooper
07-14-2010, 4:53 PM
Unless the squeeks amount to about 85% or better of the rounds expended, I'd say your time would be better spent at a range.

We'll see how widespread the "new" sniper rifles are. Look at the Beretta pistols - every special ops guy blew them off for 1911s and SIGS. Weapons get "adopted' all the time. Doesn't mean the old ones go away.

Like I said, I have ARs (good ones) and bolts. In their standard configurations, I'll take a bolt action for range, accuracy and caliber choice any day. If you are wedded to the Tacticool stuff, have at it. I think they are a lot fun for plinking and if the ChiComs ever land, I suppose I'll be glad I have them. I saw my first AR in the early 70's. I have yet to see an AR or AW of any type in the field when any real hunting is going on.

The unwritten subtext here is very often "Gee, how can I rationalize dressing up like a paramilitary wannabe and run around blasting everything that moves and not get arrested." It comes up all the time. No matter what the issue, many of you guys think some tacticool manstopper semi-combat weapon is the ideal solution. Humans die easy, generally at close range. Animals can take a hit and generally at much farther range. There's a thread in the handgun forum with guys saying 9mm amd .45 acp's are good for shooting bears WTF? I have lots of each and I'd carry one for pot growers and Manson types, but bears? The right tool for the job is always a good prescription

The way we present ourselves in the field has a lot to with how we are perceived by the public (and susequently how we fair in policy debates and elections) as well as how we are treated by LEOs. I run into guys at times all trussed up like Rambo, wearing military not hunting camo, 30-rounders hanging out of AWs, extra mags hanging off the belts molle packs. Other guys look like gangbanging thugs or bikers. Most are decent guys, but a little self awareness would go along way. Some the stories I hear about bad encounters with wardens and LEOs, those guys need to look in the mirror and ask, what kind of first impression are they making? LEOs size up a contact in about 5 seconds and if you look like trouble, you will have a whole different experiece. And before anyone goes off on a "I gotta right" jag, I stipulate, yes, you do, but we are not talking about rights here and a warden or a cop can really screw up your day if he wants to, just because. Perceptions count. They are a lot more nervous when they are looking at a militia type coming at them and they are wondering where the rest of the squad is. You may be cool as beans to your buds, but come off like idiots and yahoos (possibly threatening dangerous ones) to others - who in turn act accordingly. I am not speculating. I hear these concerns from people as they relate encounters. So if you are going to take an AR or other AW-type weapon hunting, you might consider the tactical wisdom of using short mags, sporting sights or optics, controlling your rate of fire and leaving the militaria home. So use an AR if thats what floats your boat, but please control the overall image you present.

Let the flaming begin.

So Scott, youre rational is based primarily on perception and not functionality?

Youre comment about "real hunting" is interesting too, define "real hunting" and also please enlighten me as to where your "real hunting" takes place. I have hunted in several states, primarily predator hunting, and have seen many, many ARs in the field. In fact, head on down to the magazine stand and pick up any issue of any hunting magazine and youll most likely see an article about the AR type rifles.

The perception factor may play in a state such as California, but in most of the country, the AR is just another rifle, so the perception thing is a local issue. You dont like em, thats fine, you dont have to like em, you dont have to use em, but many folks chose to and they work good for what they are.

Personally, I use 5 and 10 rounders when hunting, if I was in the prairie dog or squirrel fields, I might consider a 30 rounder to avoid reloading a whole bunch, but ill tell you that I make damn sure every trigger pull has the highest probability of a hit. You are trying to equate the capacity of a magazine with the profiency or mentality of the shooter, which I beleive has no basis in reality.

Also, the military vs hunting camo thing, cmon guy, really? Theres a whole bunch of hunters that put on an old set of BDUs and a field jacket, grab thier bow, muzzleloader, bolt gun or AR on opening day of deer season and head on out to the woods, why because its affordable, comfortable and durable, exactly what good hunting gear should be. Wearing "military" camo, like carrying a certain weapon, has no relation to the type of nut behind the buttstock, people who see more in to it then that are pretty much anti-hunters anyways and it wouldnt make a difference to them if you were sporting an Armani suit and a high end JG Anscutz, they arent gonna like hunting or hunters either way.

Hunters perception begins within the community, YOU determine how people see you. If you want to bag on AR users, your non-hunting friends are going to see it your way, because to them, you are the "expert". Instead of looking down on AR shooters, why not explore the benefits of them and accept the fact that they are a good tool to have in the box. You dont have to use em, just dont bash on others that do.

And again, Im willing to put my hunting ARs up against any hunting rifle you have and am pretty damn sure they can hold thier own.

Vtec44
07-14-2010, 7:59 PM
I take my AR15 hunting all the time, make sure you have a good sling and your hunting license clearly visible. I prefer the AR platform for hunting because I can switch from .22 LR for bunnies, .223 for coyotes, ad 6.8 for bigger targets.

If 30 yotes are coming at me, I'll have 3 additional loaded mags and mag release tool! :o

Oh what the heck is real hunting? As long as I put some miles in my boots, stalk/spot an animal, and take a shot (even miss a shot), that's real enough for me. I don't want to get as real as killing a wild boar with my bare hands or sharp sticks. That's a little too realistic. :D

What the heck is wrong with being a biker? I ride bikes and that's me in my avatar holding an AR15 hunting in SBNF.

It's a hunting area during hunting season, you'll see people out there with guns. That's what the rangers told me.

The Modern Sporting Rifle.
VbDQUADaIkE

77bawls
07-15-2010, 1:13 AM
There is no limit for hunting with a rifle. IF you have a featurless build than 30 or 100 is fine. If you a bullet button equipt rifle then 10rds is the limit.
A shotgun you can only have three rounds total. One in the chamber and two in the mag tube, but that is only for game animals. For coyotes you can take the plug out. Hope that helps.
Too the guys who says 1-3 rds is enough, try hunting squeeks and dropping mags after every round or two.

I was trying to find some coyote regulations and found this. For jack rabbit you have to have the plug in. There wasn't anything listed for shotguns for the method of take for coyote.

311. Methods Authorized for Taking Resident Small Game.

Only the following may be used to take resident small game:

(a) Shotguns 10 gauge or smaller using shot shells only and incapable of holding more than three shells in the magazine and chamber combined. If a plug is used to reduce the capacity of a magazine to fulfill the requirements of this section, the plug must be of one piece construction incapable of removal without disassembling the gun;

(b) Shotgun shells may not be used or possessed that contain shot size larger than No. BB, except that shot size larger than No. 2 may not be used or possessed when taking wild turkey. All shot shall be loose in the shell.

ScottB
07-15-2010, 8:43 AM
[QUOTE=Vtec44;4618376]I take my AR15 hunting all the time, make sure you have a good sling and your hunting license clearly visible. I prefer the AR platform for hunting because I can switch from .22 LR for bunnies, .223 for coyotes, ad 6.8 for bigger targets.

If 30 yotes are coming at me, I'll have 3 additional loaded mags and mag release tool! :o

Oh what the heck is real hunting? As long as I put some miles in my boots, stalk/spot an animal, and take a shot (even miss a shot), that's real enough for me. I don't want to get as real as killing a wild boar with my bare hands or sharp sticks. That's a little too realistic. :D

What the heck is wrong with being a biker? I ride bikes and that's me in my avatar holding an AR15 hunting in SBNF.

It's a hunting area during hunting season, you'll see people out there with guns. That's what the rangers told me.
***************************
Your first paragraph is a pretty good description of what I consider not hunting. To me, it is running around the woods blasting whatever target of opportunity appears. I would distinguish that from hunting which is more like your 3rd paragraph - a deliberate contemplative act targeting a specific species for a specific purpose and then setting about finding the animal, stalking, setting up a stand or whatever is required and ethical, to get within a range that allows for (and having the skill for) making reliable one shot kills (sometimes another shot or two is required but 1 shot, 1 kill is the goal). Game that gets all shot up before it dies turns my stomach.

I am well aware of the Remington. I know lots of serious, accomplished big game and varmint hunters. I do not know any use that as a hunting rifle. I personally am having a couple new rifles worked on right now, one is a custom mauser that will be 9.3x62mm and the other is a Rem 700 I am having rebarreled to .300WM, accurized and restocked. My other hunting rifles are bolts or levers. My semis are plinkers and blasters. Most of the hunters I know (and trust me, its a lot) are either using bolt actions or going the other way - to archery. The reason? They say there are too many idiots in the woods during rifle season these days.

Perceptions are very important. We ask the non-hunting public to support us by not passing laws infringing on our ability to hunt. We ask LEOs to treat us fairly and with respect and we ask landowners to allow us onto their land. Anyone who is so self-absorbed that they cannot or will not consider how their actions or appearance portray not only themselves, but all of us and our sport to, say, a 50-year old rancher or a middle aged couple of bird watchers or hikers or a group of backpackers, should maybe consider another sport. Ours faces enough of an uphill struggle as it is.

Like I said, if an AR gives you a woody, fine. I think they are driven more by marketing departments than anything else, but use what you want. Just understand that taking your style cues from the military or some shooter video game and running around looking like the Hutaree Militia, blasting at whatever and then telling people your a hunter gives people a bad impression of hunting and hunters. How many of you guys also have a tactical handgun in a tactical holster when you are hunting these fearsome ground squirrels? WTF is that about? I have made far too many apologies over the years to people who get in my face, telling me whats wrong about hunters and backing it up with some story about the idiot(s) they ran into or kicked off their land. These people vote and many influence their friend's votes too.

Vtec44
07-15-2010, 12:18 PM
Your first paragraph is a pretty good description of what I consider not hunting. To me, it is running around the woods blasting whatever target of opportunity appears.

Where in the first paragraph that I even state such? It was an example of the versatility of the AR platform.


Like I said, if an AR gives you a woody, fine. I think they are driven more by marketing departments than anything else, but use what you want. Just understand that taking your style cues from the military or some shooter video game and running around looking like the Hutaree Militia, blasting at whatever and then telling people your a hunter gives people a bad impression of hunting and hunters. How many of you guys also have a tactical handgun in a tactical holster when you are hunting these fearsome ground squirrels? WTF is that about?

Funny that this is the reason why I take my AR15 out to hunt: to change people's perception. There's no such thing as an evil gun as the mass media would like you to believe. Idiots will be idiots, regardless of which gun they use. If a traditional hunting rifle is politically correct enough for you, go for it. I just hate to see the stereotypes about hunters that use AR15 as if we're some sort of mall ninjas, idiots, not real hunters, etc.

Cire 5th
07-15-2010, 1:15 PM
Question.

I plan to go rabbit hunting with my AR15. It will be sometime in the beginning of August in an area that falls on the CA side but is very near the border of NV and CA. For the sake of not getting hassled by Game Wardens would it be a good idea to use a straight up 10 round magazine that is flush with the magwell? Not a 20 pinned to 10 or a 30 pinned to 10 for that matter. And of course defenitely a BB. The reason for my concern is that being so close to NV, CA Game Wardens, I would think, would be more inclined to patrol that area because they may get some Nevada folks hunting in the CA area without the CA legal configuration of their AR15.

Thanks in advance.

lewdogg21
07-15-2010, 6:49 PM
^^^Try to bring as little attention to yourself as you can. 10 rounders will work fine.

mzimmers
07-17-2010, 7:00 PM
This thread demonstrates how diverse hunting is. For big game hunting, it's unlikely you'll need more than a handful of rounds. I don't claim to be an expert hunter, and I DEFINITELY don't claim to be a fantastic shot, but...I've never taken more than 3 shots in a day while big game hunting. The one time I did take three shots, that was at two animals. I'm hard pressed to imagine being able to even be able to take more than three shots at a single animal. Deer may not be that bright, but they're not going to hang around while you empty a magazine towards them.

Varmint hunting, OTOH, is of course very different. I've heard hunters talk about taking 500 shots in a single day. (This is centerfire, too.) I imagine one could get really sick of reloading and filling small-cap magazines in that scenario.

When shotgun hunting, it's a non-issue, as state law limits you to a very low number in the gun.

Rob454
07-18-2010, 1:10 PM
What if there are 30 coyotes coming in at one time?:D

look around cause you may be surrounded by floating clouds and angels with harps:D

edgerly779
07-19-2010, 1:15 PM
max 3 rounds in shotgun does not apply to furbearers. Only game birds. and migratory fowl.

GVOllie
07-19-2010, 1:29 PM
max 3 rounds in shotgun does not apply to furbearers. Only game birds. and migratory fowl.

Nope. Not only game birds and fowl. Also applies to small game. From the regs:

311. Methods Authorized for Taking Resident Small Game.

Only the following may be used to take resident small game:

(a) Shotguns 10 gauge or smaller using shot shells only and incapable of holding more than three shells in the magazine and chamber combined. If a plug is used to reduce the capacity of a magazine to fulfill the requirements of this section, the plug must be of one piece construction incapable of removal without disassembling the gun;

Does not apply to coyotes though...

EDIT: Also applies to big game:

(b) Shotguns capable of holding not more than three shells firing single slugs may be used for the taking of deer, bear and wild pigs. In areas where the discharge of rifles or shotguns with slugs is prohibited by county ordinance, shotguns capable of holding not more than three shells firing size 0 or 00 buckshot may be used for the taking of deer only.

bigboarstopper
07-19-2010, 10:51 PM
I own an AR rifle. The only time I used it to kill animals was ground squirrls. It was nice not to have to reload constantly and there were plenty of oppertunities to shoot one after the other. While I guess this is considered hunting, I considered it killing. Im pretty sure the hunting and non hunting public would probabally agree with me in this circumstance.

An AR can give the impression that a person is "killing". An AR by design is made to shoot its target or targets in volume. While this is handy for ground squirrls and insurgents it dosent represent what the adverage hunter needs. In many mindsets the Ar used in hunting represents the same impression as a pick up truck with a lift kit so big that the driver needs a latter to get in the cab. Its just unnecessary and overkill.

Im sure there are plenty of people who are so proficient with their Ar rifles that using it for hunting is probabally their best bet for an accurate shot and humane kill. However people who enjoy the act of hunting over shooting will almost always choose the most logical, practical, tool that represents the kind of hunt they want and represent. Thats usually and has always been the hunting rifle, bow ect. These tools represent the person who has the one shot kill philosophy. The AR does not represent these things.

E Pluribus Unum
07-19-2010, 10:53 PM
Well.... that depends on what Caliber you are shooting...and your build.


If you are shooting .50 BMG, I would say around 200 rounds as it gets very heavy. If you shoot .22LR, I would guess an easy 2000 rounds.