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View Full Version : I'll just say it: JMB would have invented the Glock.


civilsnake
07-12-2010, 1:50 PM
He just didn't have enough time.

Obviously people have preferences and allegiances, but it's seems pretty clear that the two biggest zealot groups are 1911 worshippers and the Glock kool-aid drinkers.

The 1911 guys like to bash the Glock as Teutonic Tupperware, and say that JMB perfected the pistol 100 years ago. But is it really so hard to believe that if he were somehow still alive, he'd still be innovating? He didn't stop with the 1911, after all; and between the 1911 and the HiPo, you can trace the lineage of almost any pistol built today. I'd like to think that had he been alive in the 70s, he would have started looking into polymers. I think he would embrace the idea of an even simpler, even more idiot proof design.

As I looked at my first Glock (34) the other day, I felt no sense of betrayal. Only happiness in knowing that this is what Browning would have made if he could've just had a few more decades. And it would be called a "Browning 834" instead of "Glock 34"

mstlaurent
07-12-2010, 2:52 PM
I'm not sure what JMB would think of a Glock. The innovation that Glock brought to the industry was that they didn't design the gun like a gun designer, they designed it like an industrial engineer. If they didn't need tight tolerances, they didn't use tight tolerances. If they didn't need machined parts, then they didn't use machined parts, they used stamped parts. If they didn't need steel, they used polymer.

JMB was a genius, for sure, but he definitely thought like a gun designer. The HiPower is actually more complicated than the 1911 (and I say that as someone whose favorite handgun is the Browning HiPower). And, really, he designed the HiPower because he needed to come up with a design for FN that didn't violate any of his 1911 patents that were held by Colt.

I think that if he had magically survived into the 1980s he would have been creating designs that were evolutionary based on the 1911/HiPower, rather than innovating on the level that Glock and others have.

OneSevenDeuce
07-12-2010, 2:59 PM
I'm pretty sure Mr. Browning invented rifling, all firearms finishing techniques, sliced bread, and internet porn. He would have come up with a polymer pistol eventually.

ianS
07-12-2010, 3:17 PM
I have no doubt JMB would have been open to new materials, new possiblities, and new methods if he were alive today. The man was constantly striving to innovate. To say otherwise would be presumptuous and insulting of JMB's body of work and his legacy.

The P-35 or BHP was based on JMB's prototype and actually completed by Dieudonné Saive. Who knows exactly how the BHP would have turned out if JMB lived to complete it? Notice one of the prototypes by JMB was striker fired similar to a Glock. (my BOLD below). I doubt JMB would be as narrow minded, stubborn, and dogmatic as some would want him to be.

FWIW, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power

The Hi-Power was designed in response to a French military requirement for a new service pistol, the Grand Rendement (French for "High Yield"), or alternatively Grande Puissance (literally "high power"). The French military's requirements were that the arm should be compact, have a capacity of at least 10 rounds, a magazine disconnect device, an external hammer, a positive safety, be robust and simple to disassemble and re-assemble, and be capable of killing a man at 50 meters; this last criterion was seen to demand a caliber of 9 mm or larger, a bullet mass of around 8 grams, and a muzzle velocity of 350 m/s. It was to accomplish all of this at a weight not exceeding 1 kg (2.2 lb).

FN commissioned John Browning to design a new military sidearm conforming to this specification. Browning had previously sold the rights to his successful M1911 U.S. Army automatic pistol to Colt's Patent Firearms, and was therefore forced to design an entirely new pistol while working around the M1911 patents. Browning built two different prototypes for the project in Utah and filed the patent for this pistol in the United States on June 28, 1923 and granted on February 22, 1927.[5][6] One was a simple blowback design, while the other was operated with a locked-breech recoil system. Both prototypes utilized the new staggered magazine design (by designer Dieudonné Saive) to increase capacity without unduly increasing the pistol's grip size or magazine length.

The locked breech design was selected for further development and testing. This model was striker-fired, and featured a double-column magazine that held 16 rounds. The design was refined through several trials held by the Versailles Trial Commission.

In 1928, when the patents for the Colt Model 1911 had expired, Dieudonné Saive integrated many of the Colt's previously patented features into the Grand Rendement design, in the Saive-Browning Model of 1928. This version featured the removable barrel bushing and take down sequence of the Colt 1911.

By 1931, the Hi-Power design incorporated a shortened 13-round magazine, a curved rear grip strap, and a barrel bushing that was integral to the slide assembly. By 1934, the Hi-Power design was complete and ready to be produced. It was first adopted by Belgium for military service in 1935 as the Browning P-35. Ultimately, France decided not to adopt the pistol, instead selecting the conceptually similar Modèle 1935 pistol.

golfrj
07-12-2010, 3:47 PM
Yes, He probably would have BUT it would have been Hammer/Sear fired and shot lead....:D

znode
07-12-2010, 4:38 PM
Speaking as a 1911 owner, he would've definitely liked the Glock safety. He was big on accessibility and the original 1911 design didn't even have a manual safety, just the grip safety, which he thought was enough as long as you were following safety rules properly.

Needless to say the Army was horrified (being the same army that demands a decocking safety today, talk about overkill) and he had to add the manual safety later.

9mmepiphany
07-12-2010, 5:29 PM
i could see JMB coming up with a design closer to the Springfield XD because of his leaning toward the more American grip angle (saw handle rather than fencing grip) and the metal magazine...and while i think he would have done away with the swinging link, he likely would have kept the take-down pin like S&W's 3rd Gen or the Kahr

Knauga
07-12-2010, 5:44 PM
The grip wouldn't have been a 2x4 if JMB had designed a Glock :rolleyes:

CALATRAVA
07-12-2010, 6:39 PM
Seems to me that JMB didn't tend to design things with a bag over his head, with a clear avoidance of all things aesthetic.

Form followed function for him, but that form also organically mimicked the beauty of a human hand.

Not so much with the glock.

So no. I don't think he would have designed something like the Glock.

The SR9 is gettin pretty close though.

sholling
07-12-2010, 6:42 PM
The M&P is the polymer pistol that JMB would have designed not a plastic luger wannabe. ;)

civilsnake
07-12-2010, 6:52 PM
i could see JMB coming up with a design closer to the Springfield XD because of his leaning toward the more American grip angle (saw handle rather than fencing grip) and the metal magazine...and while i think he would have done away with the swinging link, he likely would have kept the take-down pin like S&W's 3rd Gen or the Kahr

I don't see why a metal magazine is a must. The polymer works just fine. If he would be comfortable using poly for the frame, why not the mag body? As for the takedown pin, it seems a more complicated solution to the same problem. The XD actually has a pretty decent takedown lever.

The grip wouldn't have been a 2x4 if JMB had designed a Glock :rolleyes:

I've only met 2 people who had problems handling a G17, and they were both women.

Seems to me that JMB didn't tend to design things with a bag over his head, with a clear avoidance of all things aesthetic.


Go look at a picture of an M2 and get back to me...

Old, original 1911s don't look like art to me; they look like tools of dead-making. So does a Glock. But frankly I find the G34 particularly easy on the eyes.

Notblake
07-12-2010, 6:54 PM
John M Browning IS still designing guns............... for jesus.

Notblake
07-12-2010, 6:55 PM
I find the G34 particularly easy on the eyes.

Some dudes think fat chicks are hot ..... doesn't make it so.

ojisan
07-12-2010, 7:11 PM
Civilsnake has been staring at 1911 porn a lot lately.
Then he returns to reality and sees his Glock.
And he weeps.

This:
http://i447.photobucket.com/albums/qq197/MrManiac/My%20Armoury/Les%20Baer%201911%20concept%202%20pistol/TM1911LesBaer.jpg

or this?
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b257/BoiseStateBronco_Fan/Glocks00001.jpg




This
http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp255/negipai98/beautiful-woman.jpg


Or this? (Gotta be polymer in there somewhere...)
http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv148/AKYAS/110308_muscle_woman_ugly.jpg

Buddhabelly
07-12-2010, 7:12 PM
But frankly I find the G34 particularly easy on the eyes.

When was the last time you had your eyes checked? :p

CaptHobbes
07-12-2010, 7:15 PM
When was the last time you had your eyes checked? :p

The sights and the back of the slide look fine. If you see anything else, you are not holding it right. :)

CaptHobbes
07-12-2010, 7:17 PM
Or this? (Gotta be polymer in there somewhere...)
http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv148/AKYAS/110308_muscle_woman_ugly.jpg

Looks more like steel guns to me.

civilsnake
07-12-2010, 7:23 PM
Civilsnake has been staring at 1911 porn a lot lately.
Then he returns to reality and sees his Glock.
And he weeps.

This:

or this?




What am I gonna be doing with it? Shooting it or rubbing myself with it?

As I already tried to make clear, custom 1911s are typically very pretty. But JMB didn't design those. He designed something like this:

http://www.davismilitaria.com/images/US/Rem%20Rand%201911-A1%201.jpg

OneSevenDeuce
07-12-2010, 7:29 PM
What am I gonna be doing with it? Shooting it or rubbing myself with it?

As I already tried to make clear, custom 1911s are typically very pretty. But JMB didn't design those. He designed something like this:

http://www.davismilitaria.com/images/US/Rem%20Rand%201911-A1%201.jpg

Now that is a thing of beauty. What isn't, in my opinion, are the serrated to hell, beaver tailed, ambi safetied, extended mag welled 1911s that are around these days. Don't get me wrong, those are all practical add ons. However nothing beats the elegant lines of a standard 1911/1911A1.

9mmepiphany
07-12-2010, 7:30 PM
I don't see why a metal magazine is a must. The polymer works just fine. If he would be comfortable using poly for the frame, why not the mag body?

because as a designer, he would have realized his mistake before a manufacturer, like Gaston Glock, would have.

actually it wasn't a mistake for the original intent of the design (military contract) for which they preferred a non-drop free mag. but the larger market would have been America where the drop free mag is expected...as was releasing the slide with the slide stop (for which the G17 also wasn't designed)

Buddhabelly
07-12-2010, 7:32 PM
The sights and the back of the slide look fine. If you see anything else, you are not holding it right. :)

You whipped some mean 1 liners, but we are talking about the aesthetics of a gun.

Buddhabelly
07-12-2010, 7:32 PM
What am I gonna be doing with it? Shooting it or rubbing myself with it?

As I already tried to make clear, custom 1911s are typically very pretty. But JMB didn't design those. He designed something like this:

http://www.davismilitaria.com/images/US/Rem%20Rand%201911-A1%201.jpg

That is still way more prettier than any Glock by an order of magnitude.

9mmepiphany
07-12-2010, 7:33 PM
Now that is a thing of beauty. What isn't, in my opinion, are the serrated to hell, beaver tailed, ambi safetied, extended mag welled 1911s that are around these days. Don't get me wrong, those are all practical add ons. However nothing beats the elegant lines of a standard 1911/1911A1.

i've actually found the 1911 pretty ugly compared to the P-08 or even the P-38

civilsnake
07-12-2010, 7:34 PM
because as a designer, he would have realized his mistake before a manufacturer, like Gaston Glock, would have.

actually it wasn't a mistake for the original intent of the design (military contract) for which they preferred a non-drop free mag. but the larger market would have been America where the drop free mag is expected...as was releasing the slide with the slide stop (for which the G17 also wasn't designed)

I'm not following... what exactly is wrong with the metal lined, poly bodied mags? The drop free, are durable, etc...

civilsnake
07-12-2010, 7:35 PM
That is still way more prettier than any Glock by an order of magnitude.

Naw. Both are functionally ugly.

OneSevenDeuce
07-12-2010, 7:36 PM
i've actually found the 1911 pretty ugly compared to the P-08 or even the P-38

Both great guns, but I gotta disagree. Maybe it's the nostalgia effect, but I love the look of the earlier Colts with that nice blued finish.

civilsnake
07-12-2010, 7:40 PM
Both great guns, but I gotta disagree. Maybe it's the nostalgia effect, but I love the look of the earlier Colts with that nice blued finish.

The bluing is about 80% of it. Park'd RIAs are not pretty.

chickenfried
07-12-2010, 7:43 PM
maybe weed shouldn't be legal...

OneSevenDeuce
07-12-2010, 7:44 PM
The bluing is about 80% of it. Park'd RIAs are not pretty.

It depends to me. The older ones with that soaked in cosmoline that has been sitting on them for a few decades look awesome. Is there something wrong with me?

ZombieTactics
07-12-2010, 7:54 PM
Seems to me that JMB didn't tend to design things with a bag over his head, with a clear avoidance of all things aesthetic.

Form followed function for him, but that form also organically mimicked the beauty of a human hand.

Not so much with the glock.

So no. I don't think he would have designed something like the Glock.

The SR9 is gettin pretty close though.

Yep.

CaptHobbes
07-12-2010, 8:00 PM
You whipped some mean 1 liners, but we are talking about the aesthetics of a gun.

What they say about the eye of the beholder and all that, plus the OP was about gun design in a broader sense than just the aesthetics. I'm actually not from the camp that thinks the Glock is a thing of beauty. For a while I thought I'd never own one, but then I got to shoot a few hundred rounds through a G17 and G34 and now I own a G34. I love how it works, and in the end it overrides anything else as far as I care. I can see more Glocks in my future. I can see a nice high-end 1911 too.

Whatever the opinion about the looks, nobody can deny the Glock is a milestone and an icon, next to the 1911, AK-47, AR-15 and such.

ojisan
07-12-2010, 8:04 PM
What am I gonna be doing with it? Shooting it or rubbing myself with it?As I already tried to make clear, custom 1911s are typically very pretty. But JMB didn't design those. He designed something like this:


Just kidding!
:)
Of course, the 1911 mil-spec models were not finished or stocked nicely, they are military models; pretty is what the commercial models were all about.
I'm sure JMB would have made a few striker fired designs...they are cheap and easy to manufacture so the market place would have demanded those.
Polymer models? Quite likely.
Something more like a CZ75 or XD seems a logical extension of his designs.
These are more natural pointers with a "Browning" grip angle.
Glock...ehhh...military model only with a Euro grip angle.
Anything's possible...

Knauga
07-12-2010, 8:10 PM
I've only met 2 people who had problems handling a G17, and they were both women.

Oh, I can handle it, I would prefer a gun that is ergonomic and actually fits in a normal person's hand, much like the beloved M1911. Glock couldn't even get a normal grip on the G36, still had to be an f'ing rectangle. My new M&P 45 with a double stack mag is actually a much more comfortable grip than a single stack G36.

OneSevenDeuce
07-12-2010, 8:15 PM
I will say this on the grip angle issue. The Glock's is a bit awkward. It is definitely a bit wide, and doesn't fit the hand as well as the 1911 for most people. However one thing the Glock has all over the 1911 is being able to get your hand high up on the tang. I can maintain excellent control over a Glock because I can get my hand way up on the slide and keep more of a straight line from the slide to my arm. The 1911 on the other hand has that pesky grip safety and low set tang. I cant get high up on the slide, and if I try to go too high the grip safety doesn't disengage.

ianS
07-12-2010, 8:25 PM
I think a lot responses so far has missed the main thrust of the OP. I don't think the OP meant if JMB was alive today he would have designed a pistol just like a Glock 17. Just on face value that would be ridiculous. Two different people simply would not design or at least manufacture pistols exactly the same. JMB and Glock both made pistols that were right for their times. While the G17 was not the first polymer pistol it was the pistol that not only changed the way people thought about handguns but the way people "consumed" handguns and the way many are made today There's a certainly philosophy unique to Glocks that was not common back in the early 80's even to today. Utter simplicity. Economy of Design. No wasted flourishes. Simple interface. Radical notions in the face of people who like to think of weapons more as heirlooms or works of art who often project their fantasies on them, rather than as simple tools.

I don't think of pistols like the XD, M&P, P99, USP etc in a vacuum. As if things these things happened spontaneously. There was a cause and effect. And Glock was the catalyst much like JMB was. Like it or not Gaston Glock was the one who created a sea change in the thinking behind of WHAT A MODERN HANDGUN SHOULD BE. No, he did not actually design it but he was the man who made it happen and oversaw what it should be. And yes, maybe it took someone who made plastic entrenching tools to be so unorthodox. To think different. People can make all the usual snide comments about the things they don't like about Glocks just like people who often pick apart the the 1911 design in hindsight. Its easy to do and its cheap. This thread shouldn't be another tired thread about what you don't like about Glocks (though no doubt some like to do that every chance they can) Without Glocks there would be no XD. No M&P. No SR9. And no, I don't believe it would have happened anyways. Would any of those companies have been willing to stick their necks out in such an aggresive way if Glock wasnt' selling their pistols by the boatload? I'm talking about reality and what has happened not what might have. Should've, would've, could've. But they didn't. Without JMB there would be no 1911, no BHP, and no Glock. They're all interconnected and any self respecting hangun enthusiast should be ashamed not to connect those dots.

Buddhabelly
07-12-2010, 8:55 PM
Whatever the opinion about the looks, nobody can deny the Glock is a milestone and an icon, next to the 1911, AK-47, AR-15 and such.

I agree with you wholeheartedly here. I would go further and say the Glock serves a purposeful function and does it very, very well.

Still, it's ugly as a... Glock!

9mmepiphany
07-12-2010, 8:56 PM
I'm not following... what exactly is wrong with the metal lined, poly bodied mags? The drop free, are durable, etc...

the original mags would not drop free when they were completely loaded...it wasn't in the original design specs...they had to be redesigned. if they had been originally manufactured as metal bodied mags, they would not have needed to be redesigned to work as Americans wanted.

the same can be said about the original slide stop. it wasn't designed with the American market in mind and with how some Americans use it

Rock_Islander
07-12-2010, 8:57 PM
Whatever GUYS. If you like the Glock, go worship its function and/or its beauty. If you like the 1911, then do so with that pistol.

ME PERSONALLY: I can see how someone likes the simplicity, lightweight, ruggedness, and reliability of the Glock. As well as its "blocky" look. I don't think they're the most beautiful guns by any means, but when I see one, there's a distinct character that I see in it that somehow makes it beautiful. Like, I can imagine its "workhorse-ness" I guess you can say. That said, I just love the overall slim and sleek design of the 1911. I love how there are straight lines that mix with subtle curved lines in certain places. When I hold my 1911 up to aim and shoot, the gun is all of an inch in width, so it points naturally. Just a slim, accurate, powerful, heavy, beautiful, reliable, yada yada yada nice gun.

Fot
07-12-2010, 9:05 PM
Some dudes think fat chicks are hot ..... doesn't make it so.

Sig material ^^^^

JMB might have played with plastics but he sure as hell would have given the Glocks some style and soul. I'm not hating on Glocks at all, I'm a gun whore and will shoot anything that goes bang. Owned a Glock before, plan on owning another..

ianS
07-12-2010, 9:06 PM
If JMB were to design a pistol today I don't believe it would be a 1911 and it would not be a Glock. Maybe something completely radical or maybe something that takes certain cues from Glock. But if he designed a pistol back in the early 80's there's a chance he might have come up with something similar to a Glock before Glock did.

paul0660
07-12-2010, 9:16 PM
If Browning had designed the Glock, I would want one.


He didn't.

I don't.

ianS
07-12-2010, 9:26 PM
If Browning had designed the Glock, I would want one.


He didn't.

I don't.

Hypothetically, what if he did? What if it was exactly like the Glock 17? As much as he might not have he might have too. We are talking hypotheticals.

C.W.M.V.
07-12-2010, 10:22 PM
With John Moses Browning all things are possible. Praise unto him.

civilsnake
07-12-2010, 10:59 PM
I guess what I'm saying is that we should all accept and embrace the Glock as a natural evolution of the fighting pistol, as opposed to bashing it for being plastic or ugly or "not American enough". Honestly, the only big gripe that keeps coming back is the large grip with the less common angle. I happen to shoot the same with a Glock, SIG, 1911, MkII, and others. I never got the whole grip angle argument. And the G17 grip is downright pleasant for me because I have long hands.

Would JMB have literally come up with the Glock 17? Probably not. But he would have come up with the poly, simple safety, striker fired hi cap pistol that spawned the entire subsequent generations of HKs, M&Ps, XDs and others. Of this I have no doubt. And it would have been glorious and the creatures of the heavens would sing in unison. Alas, I think Gaston Glock did a fine job channeling the spirit of the man we all respect.

ZombieTactics
07-13-2010, 5:59 AM
I guess what I'm saying is that we should all accept and embrace the Glock as a natural evolution of the fighting pistol, as opposed to bashing it for being plastic or ugly or "not American enough". Sane people already do. ;)

Alas, I think Gaston Glock did a fine job channeling the spirit of the man we all respect.
Nahhh ... Glock designed a very excellent firearm. That I will give him. He really doesn't exhibit the kind of integrity to put him in the same class as JMB though.

J-cat
07-13-2010, 6:39 AM
By the time the Glock came around, JMB would have invented these already:

http://www.shinyshiny.tv/phaser.jpg

OneSevenDeuce
07-13-2010, 7:27 AM
I love how phasers never had sights. What did they do in the 24th century? Just walk them in?

Buddhabelly
07-13-2010, 7:57 AM
I love how phasers never had sights. What did they do in the 24th century? Just walk them in?

Auto-aim my friend. Don't you play any video game?

trashman
07-13-2010, 8:01 AM
What am I gonna be doing with it? Shooting it or rubbing myself with it?


LOL! That pretty much sums up this thread.

--Neill

JTROKS
07-13-2010, 8:03 AM
I love how phasers never had sights. What did they do in the 24th century? Just walk them in?

They have automatic target indicators that will decide if friend or foe. If it's a foe it will track the target providing it is within the given angle for off bore sight target engagement. If out of the weapons envelope it will have simple LED indicators informing the user to move it right or left and down or up. Gotta keep it simple. :D

ianS
07-13-2010, 8:16 AM
Would JMB have literally come up with the Glock 17? Probably not. But he would have come up with the poly, simple safety, striker fired hi cap pistol that spawned the entire subsequent generations of HKs, M&Ps, XDs and others. Of this I have no doubt. And it would have been glorious and the creatures of the heavens would sing in unison. Alas, I think Gaston Glock did a fine job channeling the spirit of the man we all respect.

I'm not sure he would have. From what I've read regarding the development of the 1911 and the BHP it seems he designed pistols that would pass certain contractual or military requirements. That meant the final 1911 and BHP models did not necessarily come out exactly the way JMB would have made them had he had complete creative control. As did Gaston Glock's pistol when he developed it to win Austria's military contract. What that modern pistol would have been if JMB was alive today is completely speculative and would have depended on the contract he was trying to win at any given time. I think its only fair to say he would not discount outright the kind of features Glock put into his pistols. The kind of things some narrow minded JMB worshippers poo poo on with regularity.


I'm saying is that we should all accept and embrace the Glock as a natural evolution of the fighting pistol

Whether people want to accept it or not, it already is. They don't have a choice at this point. Whether the Glock pistol is something JMB would have eventually come up with is not necessarily so. And by implying Gaston Glock somehow captured the spirit of JMB you're setting yourself against people who regard JMB to some god-like status. They regard his firearms as some kind of immaculate conception. And Gaston to them is no god. What Gaston Glock championed and contributed to the history of the modern service pistol is his own. For better, and for others, for worse (because JMB didn't make it). What the revisionists keep trying and will continue trying to do is diminish Glock's enormous impact to the modern service pistol and elevate the status of other polymer pistols that came after it. Glock has and always will be regarded as some kind of foreign invader or unwanted bastard child. Glock's pistol is still in a lot of ways a Cinderella story that continues to prevail against the seemingly overwhelming forces aligned against it.

OneSevenDeuce
07-13-2010, 8:26 AM
Auto-aim my friend. Don't you play any video game?

Ah yeah, video games, no I don't. It's been a few years since I had the Star Trek Encyclopedia too. :D

OneSevenDeuce
07-13-2010, 8:27 AM
They have automatic target indicators that will decide if friend or foe. If it's a foe it will track the target providing it is within the given angle for off bore sight target engagement. If out of the weapons envelope it will have simple LED indicators informing the user to move it right or left and down or up. Gotta keep it simple. :D

I wonder if it's CADOJ compliant.

Colt
07-13-2010, 11:00 AM
JMB's design would be more functionally cool AND way more aesthetically pleasing.

Skunkworks45
07-14-2010, 1:54 AM
Now that is a thing of beauty. What isn't, in my opinion, are the serrated to hell, beaver tailed, ambi safetied, extended mag welled 1911s that are around these days. Don't get me wrong, those are all practical add ons. However nothing beats the elegant lines of a standard 1911/1911A1.

Nothing... except a Luger. ;)

thevic
07-14-2010, 2:00 AM
hk koolaid ftw!

9mmepiphany
07-14-2010, 5:39 AM
Nothing... except a Luger.

i'd have to agree with that...there really is a functional elegance to the P-08

Colt
07-14-2010, 5:57 AM
Yeah - aesthetically, the P-08 is awesome.

lazs
07-14-2010, 8:44 AM
civilsnake... I think it is a good thing that he is not alive or he would go to your house and beat the crap out of you for even thinking of starting this thread.

Juice5610
07-14-2010, 8:49 AM
Buy both and be a "fan boy" of both like me :)

Knight_Who_Says_Ni
07-14-2010, 9:13 AM
I'm pretty sure Mr. Browning invented rifling, all firearms finishing techniques, sliced bread, and internet porn. He would have come up with a polymer pistol eventually.

JMB was Mormon no porn for him :D

paradox
07-14-2010, 9:20 AM
JMB was Mormon no porn for him :D

That is why he had to invent internet porn: that way neither the mailman nor the local porn store proprietor could rat him out to the church :D

civilsnake
07-14-2010, 9:21 AM
civilsnake... I think it is a good thing that he is not alive or he would go to your house and beat the crap out of you for even thinking of starting this thread.

I could take him.

And face it: I'm right. He would have started the polymer pistol craze eventually.

ZombieTactics
07-14-2010, 9:25 AM
Buy both and be a "fan boy" of both like me :)
Stop putting expensive ideas in my head. I've resisted "1911 fevah" for almost 30 years now ... don't need to come down with a case now.

gorenut
07-14-2010, 9:36 AM
One thing is for sure though.. if JMB would eventually invent the Glock.. it'd have a hell of a lot more charisma. Not a bash on Glocks, I like them.. even respect them for their no non-sense design.

Wonder what kind of reaction one would get if a thread was started about JMB would eventually invent the Hi-Point if he were still alive. Hi-Power, Hi-Point.. yeah? yeah?... sorry... no.

OneSevenDeuce
07-14-2010, 11:13 AM
Buy both and be a "fan boy" of both like me :)

True. I love both.

OneSevenDeuce
07-14-2010, 11:13 AM
JMB was Mormon no porn for him :D

No upskirt ankle shots?

Old Timer
07-14-2010, 11:37 AM
The M&P is the polymer pistol that JMB would have designed not a plastic luger wannabe. ;)My thoughts exactly! :D

Old Timer
07-14-2010, 11:40 AM
I've only met 2 people who had problems handling a G17, and they were both women.Nobody said anything about not being able to handle a Glock. The statement was that it is like holding a 2X4. The grip being terribly uncomfortable and ackward does not equate to not being able to handle the gun.

PS: Are you SURE you can whip JMB? :D

Monticore
07-14-2010, 1:52 PM
I bet you there were Chuck Norris style JMB jokes back when.

civilsnake
07-14-2010, 2:00 PM
Nobody said anything about not being able to handle a Glock. The statement was that it is like holding a 2X4. The grip being terribly uncomfortable and ackward does not equate to not being able to handle the gun.

PS: Are you SURE you can whip JMB? :D

I just assumed the 2x4 complaint was the size issue. But I don't find any of them all that uncomfortable. I'm fine with the full size G21.

And I'm just playing the odds here, but I ought to be able to handle a 155 year old man.

richzmn
07-14-2010, 3:30 PM
He wouldn't have invented the Glock!

Men like these don't exist today. Everyone just copies work from 50 to 100 years ago. They copy guns, movies, music and almost anything else.

If JMB were alive today, we'd all have blasters and light sabers!

gorenut
07-14-2010, 3:35 PM
He wouldn't have invented the Glock!

Men like these don't exist today. Everyone just copies work from 50 to 100 years ago. They copy guns, movies, music and almost anything else.

If JMB were alive today, we'd all have blasters and light sabers!

How about blasters that shoot out lightsabers?

richzmn
07-14-2010, 3:42 PM
How about blasters that shoot out lightsabers?


Now your thinking! Are you related to JMB?

gorenut
07-14-2010, 3:49 PM
Now your thinking! Are you related to JMB?

Maybe a distant descendant of his Bizarro World clone.

Boy has this discussion fallen far far down.....

abusalim81
07-14-2010, 5:32 PM
"I'm not sure what JMB would think of a Glock. The innovation that Glock brought to the industry was that they didn't design the gun like a gun designer, they designed it like an industrial engineer. If they didn't need tight tolerances, they didn't use tight tolerances. If they didn't need machined parts, then they didn't use machined parts, they used stamped parts. If they didn't need steel, they used polymer."

The best way to engineer anything is the way the Glock engineers have done it.... Simple, reliable, and affordable! Although 1911 is a beautiful gun, a firearm is a tool and Glock engineers understood that.

Old Timer
07-14-2010, 6:03 PM
And I'm just playing the odds here, but I ought to be able to handle a 155 year old man.LOL! But remember, some of us old goats might surprise you!

Loner
07-14-2010, 8:23 PM
JMB would have given it a better grip angle.

1911su16b870
07-14-2010, 9:18 PM
The Glock grip angle was based on Herr Lugers P08. The delayed blow back design is Sig Sauers. The striker is from Steyr. The minimization of parts - Genius.