PDA

View Full Version : Bought several firearms: FFL made be buy locks


Diabolus
04-13-2006, 6:18 AM
I am unable to use the search function due to restrictions on this machine. I have a cheap Sentry safe at home but the FFL never asked and I was not aware of the law. He made me buy seven locks at ten dollars a pop, if I have a safe and sign the afidavit do I need these locks?

I have not picked up the firearms yet, and based on the responses here, I may ask for a refund or store credit for ammo.

Can I carry these in the trunk of my car in a large plastic tote without being locked?

Would the trunk serve the purpose of a locked container?

Please advise - I am picking these up soon.

Thank You

glen avon
04-13-2006, 6:38 AM
if you have an approved safe, no locks needed.

ask to exchange for store credit on ammo

long guns can go in the trunk no problem, handguns may go in trunk, but if HGs are in the passenger compartment they must be in a locked container. I always lock them to be sure.

Diabolus
04-13-2006, 7:35 AM
Thanks, that really upsets me that he insisted I purchase locks. Maybe it was lack of communication on our parts.

Now, if the safe is cleary not big enough to hold ALL the firearms, is that any of his concern?

Thank You

bootcamp
04-13-2006, 7:35 AM
I hate that crap. I talked to an FFL that said I would need to purchase locks for the lowers that I (almost) FFL'd through him and he said I could bring my own locks granted they were less than 10 days old with a receipt!! (WTF?!?!) Yeah, WTF is that I said too. Screw that crap. Another FFL trying to screw every little dollar they can out of you.

Needless to say, I used another FFL that treated me right!! $55 for DROS, FFL fee and tax was all I had to pay. I signed affidavit for safe and I was on my way!! PM me if you're in the bay area and need a GOOD FFL.

Find your lowers for $99 on the net and you've got yourself a fully DROS'd lower for under $160 + shipping. Even cheaper if you get multiple lowers.

glen avon
04-13-2006, 7:42 AM
I hate that crap. I talked to an FFL that said I would need to purchase locks for the lowers that I (almost) FFL'd through him and he said I could bring my own locks granted they were less than 10 days old with a receipt!! (WTF?!?!) Yeah, WTF is that I said too. Screw that crap. Another FFL trying to screw every little dollar they can out of you....

that's the law, as the intent is that you have all long arms locked up or cable locks on all of them. this way one does not use the same lock over and over. hence the 10 days and a receipt rule. TTF.

Diabolus
04-13-2006, 8:03 AM
OK, what about the size of the safe - will that be a concern of the FFL or does it not matter?

Thanks

taloft
04-13-2006, 8:11 AM
When you sign the affidavit you are affirming that the safe is CA DOJ approved and of a size to hold all firearms that you are picking up.

jessegpresley
04-13-2006, 11:04 PM
My FFL charges me $50 for any number of long guns (or lowers) in a 30 day period, and he gives me a free gun lock. This is in Sac though. Like to find a Bay Area FFL.

accordingtoome
04-13-2006, 11:08 PM
ya i didn;t know about this law and ended up buying three more locks before the guy at turners told me about it.

Scotto
04-15-2006, 10:54 PM
And remember that station wagons, hatchbacks, pickup trucks, and SUVs typically don't have a trunk (in the firearms transportation legal sense of the word): there is no compartment that can be separately locked so it is inaccessible from the passenger compartment.

By the way, lockable cases for handguns are available for $5 online (I just ordered one from Natchez a few weeks ago); that price doesn't include the padlock you need to lock them, but most people have a padlock sitting around, or you can get those for $4 at Home Depot and such. Cable locks for guns are available for free at many police stations (look for "project childsafe" online). Both cases and locks are inexpensive legal insurance, and highly recommended, whether you have a trunk and a gun safe or not.
I picked up 3 of those last time the police department handed them out for free and I was told that they didnt qualify for new gun purchases.

rod
04-19-2006, 8:31 AM
I recently purchased a rifle and a handgun and was asked if I owned a safe. If not, I would be required to purchase a gun lock. I asked if the lock that the gun came with would work and the dealer told me it would. I own a safe so it was a moot point. I didn't have to show any receipts for the safe, just sign a paper saying I owned a particular make and model. No one cared how many guns were already in the safe either. I bought a shotgun yesterday and the subject of safes/locks was never mentioned. Maybe he remembered I already had a safe.

It all depends on the store policy and the level of knowledge from the dealer. Some places care more than others. CA law says you have to lock up your guns one way or another in order to protect them from kids or tweekers. Any responsible gun owner shouldn't have a problem with that IMHO.

Rod

BigMac
04-19-2006, 5:39 PM
Actually there was just a law passed that requires a lock be supplied with every handgun sale.

I've been learning payroll and havn't read the body of the text for safe exemptions. I just got an E-mail about it from the NRA rep that comes by my store all the time.

This was a new fed law... it was in the freedom of comerce act or something..

I'll look and post it later.

Mssr. Eleganté
04-26-2006, 1:49 AM
That would be the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. Unfortunately there is no safe exemption with this law.

It only applies to handguns sold by Dealers, Manufacturers and Importers and only if they sell them to a non-licensee. Also, C&R handguns are exempt from the law.

Since most new handguns already come with a safety lock, this should only effect your sales of used handguns that are less than 50 years old and private party transfers of handguns that are less than 50 years old.

EBWhite
04-26-2006, 1:58 AM
and when you get that lock, throw it in the trash. i used one of those childsafe freebees to lock up a propane tank haha. those dangerous gases!

accordingtoome
04-26-2006, 3:14 AM
So this law only implies to handguns? what if i do a PPT at turners with an SKS ? they made my buddy buy a lock for it, EVEN though i already put a lock on it when we did the transfer

Mssr. Eleganté
04-26-2006, 12:28 PM
Not universally true. Ruger handguns come with a lock (a cable lock), but that cable lock isn't (or at least wasn't 2 years ago) approved by California, so the dealer can't sell it, or give it to you, or let you have it, or use it to satisfy the lock requirement.

Treelogger,

My comments were about the effect that the Federal Lawful Commerce in Arms Act would have on Big Mac's handgun sales. He brought up the point that this new Federal law requires him to supply a gun lock with all handgun sales, even if you own a California approved safe

This is totally separate from California's gun lock requirements.

But the good news is that the gun locks needed to satisfy this new Federal requirement don't have to meet the California standards. The Federal law only requires that a gun lock meet one of the following requirements...

(A) a device that, when installed on a firearm, is designed to prevent the firearm from being operated without first deactivating the device;

(B) a device incorporated into the design of the firearm that is designed to prevent the operation of the firearm by anyone not having access to the device; or

(C) a safe, gun safe, gun case, lock box, or other device that is designed to be or can be used to store a firearm and that is designed to be unlocked only by means of a key, a combination, or other similar means.

Again, this new Federal requirement only applies to handguns and only if they are less than 50 years old. There is no exemption for people who own a California approved safe or who bring in their own recently purchased California approved gun lock and receipt. But the cheap lock that gun manufacturers include with their handguns will satisfy the Federal requirement. That is why a said that the new Federal law would only effect his sales of used modern handguns, that don't already come with a gun lock.

For those folks who don't own a California approved safe or who don't bring in their own recently purchased California approved gun lock, none of this matters, because they are going to have to buy a California approved gun lock from the dealer anyway.

antarius
04-26-2006, 12:34 PM
that's the law, as the intent is that you have all long arms locked up or cable locks on all of them. this way one does not use the same lock over and over. hence the 10 days and a receipt rule. TTF.
That's not true.

The law states you have to have the ability to lock your weapons up, either by trigger lock (or similar type) or by an approved safe.

It does not state that you are required to actually use said safety locking device, or safe, after you bring the weapon home.

You are, however, responsible for your weapon. If you should have "reasonably known" that a child could get their hands on the weapon and harm themselves or others... or if you should have "reasonable known" that a criminal could get his hands on your weapon and use it in the commission of a crime... you could be held accountable for a misdemeanor or felony, depending on what occurred.

This does not mean that if you had your guns unlocked in your house, and some burglar breaks in, steals it, and commits a crime with it that you would be liable. It's not "reasonable" for you to expect that to happen.

However, if you have a childrens birthday party and he blows his head off with your unlocked firearm; You better believe you'd be held responsible, because that is a situation in which you should have "reasonably known" they could have gotten their hands on the weapon.

I hope this clarifies this section of the law..

What bothers me with that "10 day rule" is that you can go down to the local police department, grab 100 of those chamber locks if you wish, for free, and that wouldn't satisfy a dealer because it wasn't "purchased within 10 days." Ridiculous locking-system law.

rips31
04-26-2006, 3:17 PM
so approved locks must be bought w/in 10 days? why'd i think it was 30 days. ugh.

socalguns
04-26-2006, 3:34 PM
It is 30 days.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12087.htm
12087 thru 12088.9 Firearms Safety Devices
ARTICLE 4.5. FIREARMS SAFETY DEVICES
...
12088.1
...
(e) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:
(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to the firearms dealer which shows the date of purchase, the name, and the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with the dealers' record of sales of firearms.

rips31
04-26-2006, 4:43 PM
It is 30 days.
sweet...thanks. i'll bring one of my locks in w/the receipt for my lower (not that it really is useful, but it's required). :)

socalguns
04-26-2006, 4:55 PM
you do get a receipt, and you can purchase something for zero dollars

rips31
04-26-2006, 9:52 PM
nah...just did a ppt and the receipt said 'gun & lock,' so that should legally suffice for the lock, i hope.

socalguns
04-26-2006, 10:35 PM
well yeah -- i was talking about free locks as in
http://projectchildsafe.org/ -- cops/sheriff hand these out (among others)