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View Full Version : The legal way to do a group buy


BBR
04-12-2006, 6:24 PM
Hi,
I have been lurking around the site for a few weeks and I finally have question worthy of buging all you fine CalGuns folks.

I know it has been discussed a bit about the proper way to do a group buy, but can anyone give a few more details about how to do this correctly without getting in trouble.

What I have going is a few of my friends and I have worked out a good deal on a group lot of off list lowers. What I was planing on doing is everyone would meet at a bank and we would all pay our respective shares for the buy and then we would have the bank issue one check to send to the manufacturer. We would then have the lowers group shipped to one FFL and each man would dros them individualy at said FFL. Am I doing this correctly - should I adjust this plan????
Thanks for your input.
BBR

socalguns
04-12-2006, 6:36 PM
What exactly is your concern?
As far as the state/fed is concerned,
you need to transfer these legally, through FFL,
the rest is up in the air

shopkeep
04-12-2006, 6:40 PM
Would Atherd, Crew6172 or one of the other group buy OGs please chime in?

Jeff Rambo
04-12-2006, 6:49 PM
While it is safe for you guys to pay the vendor with one form of payment (I would suggest a postal money order or bank cashiers check if so), I would advise separate payments (e.g. money orders) sent to the vendor at once in an overnight envelope. Then just make sure that once they get to the FFL that the DROS is done individually by each buyer. This is an exaggerated way of going about it, but it is the fool-proof way to cover yourself.

Alternatively, if you have your FFL lined up already, you could give him/her the funds and let them make the payment on your behalf.

As far as what the concern is, it is conducting a large/bulk firearm purchase without an FFL on the behalf of multiple buyers. This is apparently a sticking point with the group buy conducted by artherd and the apparent reason the receivers are still in DOJ possession.

Good first question and welcome to the boads.

BBR
04-12-2006, 6:57 PM
Mr. Rambo,
Thank you for clearing that up for me. You have made my up my mind for me. I am not keen on this little venture getting anyone in trouble, especially myself. Thanks again
BBR

Jeff Rambo
04-12-2006, 7:19 PM
You do not have to be turned off and run away from it all together, but just make sure you do not skirt the lines of acting as a dealer w/o an actual FFL. It can get messy. Group buys are much easier when it comes to non-firearm related items and even then, it's a headache if you are not prepared.

A firearms group buy in a nutshell:
- Line up and receive committment from vendor
- Line up and receive committment from an FFL
- Negotiate price with vendor
- Give final payment as per negotiated price to FFL
- FFL makes payment on your behalf
- Vendor ships merchandise to FFL
- Group Buy members DROS at FFL
- Pick-up merchandise in 10 days.

Your best bet is to include the DROS + Fees when giving the funds to the FFL initially, this way you can negotiate a discounted rate with the FFL. Also, keep in mind that an FFL may be benefiting from your group buy if you allow the FFL to make the payment on your behalf as this may now allow him/her to establish a dealer account with the vendor that they otherwise would not have been able to do if your vendor is the actual manufacturer or wholesale dealer of the item you are buying and your order is large enough. So keep this in mind when possibly trying to get the FFL to give you a good rate on their fee. The FFL could also work off of your negotiated rate to get a few items in to stock for themselves. That is how you have to pitch it to them.

Personally, I would just go to one of the FFLs stocking already or to one of the retailers willing to ship w/ a network of FFLs in place (such as ColdWarShooters.com).

If you do not mind me asking (and feel free to PM if you wish to keep it private) what lowers do you have a good rate on and at what rate? Lastly, Jeff will work just fine.

6172crew
04-12-2006, 8:08 PM
I have helped setup a few GB's...well Calguns buys.

A. Always ask the owner of the forum before posting.:D

Here is a few of my rules.

1. Im not an FFL so I dont make anything...not one red cent! (I like a thanks though).

2. Make sure your FFL is happy (if he doesnt like guys calling after 9pm, then make sure your Calgunners dont call after 9pm)

3. Make sure product is in hand!

4. Make sure you have plenty of extra time for the few guys who wont give you any information about themselves but have 5-9 PMs worth of questions to send you and when one of them says he cant talk over the phone then be ready to ask why. (Im glad I did!):)

5. Make sure you have the product in hand.(cant say that enough as we are getting down to the wire)

6. Be loyal to your team.:cool:

My deal is Ive had fun with this whole lower thing and really like helping you guys out and love sticking it to the CA DOJ and that is why I continue to keep helping. If I didnt like getting emails, PMs and talking w/ your supplier Id have quit already.

If you guys need help with a GB or just want to know how to get your ad setup just PM me.

xenophobe
04-12-2006, 8:34 PM
I don't want to get into the legal specifics about any group buys... but... I see anything that doesn't follow this path to be questionable...

1) Find a FFL willing to give you a certain price for the transfer
2) Contact vendor on behalf of FFL to arrainge group price
3) All payments mailed/given to FFL
4) FFL sends off payment
5) FFL receives goods and distributes

Personally, I would just go to one of the FFLs stocking already or to one of the retailers willing to ship w/ a network of FFLs in place (such as ColdWarShooters.com).

I would think this a safer, and much quicker alternative...

Jeff Rambo
04-12-2006, 8:59 PM
By the way folks, you will always see me praise Cold War Shooters. This is not because I am their puppet, but simply because they are who I do business with and I absolutely love doing business with them so I can comfortably refer others to them as I know they will be well taken care of.

But with that said, I would also like to give recongition to The Gun Exchange and Ten Percent Firearms as they are also a pleasure to deal with from all accounts that I've read and heard about. You can't go wrong either way. The same can be said for 6172crew's setup. I have not heard a single negative comment from anyone who has dealt with them.

xenophobe
04-12-2006, 10:41 PM
I'll second that. I've bought product for the store, and have used CWS for my personal transactions. Good to go, all the way around. 6172crew's FFL is a good friend I've known for years. Great people. Wes, he's a good guy, and... well buy stuff from him too. ;)