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View Full Version : How to increase the number of Kali permit holders


Paladin
04-07-2006, 6:21 PM
One of the most important things we can do to improve the situation in Kali is to get more Kalifornians to get CHLs. They will have a vested interest in maintaining our gun rts, and we will be able to show that, hopefully, a hundred thousand California civilians carry concealed safely. Thus we we're not trying to go from No Issue to Shall Issue (as many Kalifornians think), but rather we want to eliminate discrimination from issuance by going from May Issue to Shall Issue.

As hard as it may seem to us here, many people in virtual Shall Issue parts of Kali don't even apply for a permit. Here are some of the reasons I use to tell friends in "Shall Issue" jurisdictions that they should apply for a CHL immediately, even if they don't plan to carry everyday:

1. In case you are ever a witness to a violent crime and the perp gets out on bail -- you may need a CCW immediately. Better to have a CHL and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

2. In case of disasters (post-Katrina, tornadoes, earthquakes, fires, riots), you may have to flee your home w/all your valuables. CHL will protect you while you flee and while you stay at a new, unfamiliar location.

3. In case some nut case decides to stalk you or if you are a victim of domestic abuse, your abuser decides to come after you. Again, you might suddenly need to carry.

4. For those times you have to go to a bad part of town, or get lost in an unfamiliar city or stay out later than usual.

Rumpled
04-07-2006, 7:31 PM
Some counties (rural) are shall issue.
Some (urban) are no issue.
Some (suburbs w/Repub Sheriff) are might issue.

1 and 3 might fly if it has already happened and you have restraining order's

Otherwise, these won't fly.

natrab
04-07-2006, 7:46 PM
I'd love to get one. Problem is I live in Santa Cruz. According to the stats, they don't issue many (though I haven't heard much about what they will issue them for).

I thought about doing the out of county thing as I work full time in Monterey County (I spend at least a third of the year there) and they seem to issue more permits. This is good, as I often get off work in the middle of the night in Salinas, which isn't the safest place ever.

If anyone has suggestions, let me know.

Paladin
04-07-2006, 8:03 PM
I guess I must not have been clear in my post.

A lot of pro-gun people in virtually "Shall Issue" Kali counties have no intention of carrying everday and so don't even bother applying for a CHL. Those four listed reasons are to be used by you to motivate them to apply for a CHL. Those reasons are to show them why getting a CHL is wise, even if they don't plan to carry everyday.

Those reasons are not for them to use on the application.

Hope this clears things up.

WokMaster1
04-08-2006, 10:33 AM
Help, please! Just for my own learning experience, what's a CHL (concealed handgun license?) Thanks.:confused:

m1371
04-08-2006, 10:46 AM
Some counties (rural) are shall issue.
Some (urban) are no issue.
Some (suburbs w/Repub Sheriff) are might issue.

1 and 3 might fly if it has already happened and you have restraining order's

Otherwise, these won't fly.

I think the point he is trying to make is that there are various reasons "why" you might need a valid ccw permit immediately, where going through the whole application and approval process would take too long.

Reasons #1 and #3 are valid examples. If you needed the ccw permit due to either of these, by the time you got approved it could be too late.

Re-reading Paladin's original post, it seems his point is to try and get as many people to apply for ccw's regardless of whether they "need" them or not, and whether or not they intend to carry. It's the fact that permits are being issued in quantity and showing that we (firearms owners) want concealed handgun licenses issued. Sort of a counterbalance to the liberal mantra of "guns are bad".

I personally agree. The more people with valid ccw permits the better. The ccw classes are very enlightening in various areas, ranging from Kalifornia gun laws to firearm safety (particularly as to carrying concealed vs carrying openly on a range). Getting more law-abiding people out there with permits sends a message.

m1371
04-08-2006, 10:49 AM
Help, please! Just for my own learning experience, what's a CHL (concealed handgun license?) Thanks.:confused:

Just like it sounds: Concealed Handgun License

A concealed handgun license, also known as a Concealed Carry Weapon (CCW) permit lets you legally carry a handgun concealed.

billym
04-08-2006, 11:36 AM
I live in Oaktown. The way it is going these days they should be handing ccw's to any law abiding citizen. There are so many little punks who are robbing people walking home from BART. I would bet that would change if the public was packin heat and some good citizen shot one of these little creeps. Besides many of the criminals in Oakland are already carring illeagal guns. Let's even the odds.

I am going to apply in Alameda county on the premise that Oakland is dangerously under policed and I can't depend on them to even show up to a crime scene much as less actually save someones life. And when they deny me maybe I will sue the county sherriff.
In fact every CalGuns member in Oakland should do the same.

If the local police are not doing their job or are unable to due to staffing, why should I be prevented from protecting myself? I have never even had a misdemeanor. In fact I probably have a cleaner record than many LEOs.

Did'nt mean to Hijack the thread.

Supernam
04-08-2006, 1:25 PM
I am one of those that can get one if I wanted but choose not to. I am a resident of Kern County, but going to school in Orange County. We all know that Kern is pretty much shall-issue, while Orange County is not far down the line. I can change my residency at the DMV to Orange if I wanted.

The reason why I do gon't and get a permit is because I will be graduating in a little less than a year from now and will start applying to federal agencies and some local PD's. The time between now and the time that I will become a LEO is probably less than 2 years. Is it really worth it for me? I guess you can say "better to have and not need than vice-versa" but $400 is kinda steep you know? I'm not even citing the fact that Irvine, where I live now, is ranked the safest city in the nation by the FBI.

I'm still debating, but honestly the only thing blocking me is the $$$ involved. I think CCW reforms should take a look at the costs associated with permit issuance. There is no reason why it should cost that much. The only thing that should cost anything is the Training. But at the same time, we should allow people to "test out" of the training to see if they understand all of the legal implications related to ccw and all of the technical skills involved.

Paladin
04-08-2006, 5:03 PM
I live in Oaktown. <snip>
I am going to apply in Alameda county on the premise that Oakland is dangerously under policed and I can't depend on them to even show up to a crime scene much as less actually save someones life. And when they deny me maybe I will sue the county sherriff.
In fact every CalGuns member in Oakland should do the same.

Since you live in the City of Oakland, you go thru the Oakland Police Dept, not the Alameda Co. Sheriff's Dept.

Go to: http://www.oaklandnet.com/government/PolicePubs/opd.htm and scroll down to Concealed Weapon Permit for a .pdf application. Good luck!

IIRC, their Chief of Police was selected by Mayor Jerry Brown. I think your best bet is to get actively involved in the next mayoral race. Ron Dellums, IIRC, is extremely anti-2nd A rights. I doubt whether the other two contenders are much better. You need to find out who of the three is the least anti-2nd A rights/CHL (since I doubt whether any are actually pro-2nd A Rts/CHL). Be sure to post what you find here at CGN so others can support that candidate over the other two (by volunteering, contributing money, telling friends, voting).

Paladin
04-08-2006, 5:16 PM
First off, until I started using forums I never really appreciated what one of my college professors said: "Don't try to write so that you are understood; try to write so that you cannot be misunderstood." m1371, you correctly stated my purpose in posting. Thanks.

WokMaster1: I prefer CHL because, at least acc to the image posted at packing.org ( www.packing.org/state/california/image.php?stateimage=10 ), the permit says it is a license for revolver, pistol or other firearm. Since I doubt anyone will be packing a rifle or shotty concealed (and I question whether the state statute and courts would allow it), I assume it means a concealed handgun license. Also, other states' CWPs allow the carrying of concealed knives, etc. I don't think the Kali license permits that. Thus I try to prevent readers of my posts from assuming it covers non-firearm weapons. (Also typing "CHL" is easier than "CCW permit".)

m1371: Why do you think my 1st and 4th reasons are not valid?

Supernam: Yep, $400 is steep. It's just one of those judgment calls. Do you ever drive outside of Irvine? Your Kali CHL is valid throughout the state, while vacationing at Tahoe (I'm not sure about camping in state parks), visiting family or friends in any non-permissive areas. $400 bucks for 2 yrs comes to about 55 cents/per day. I'd go for it.

m1371
04-08-2006, 7:46 PM
Paladin- I never overtly stated that any of the four reasons you cited were invalid. I was simply trying to point out to Rumpled that #1 and #3 are certainly valid reasons to have a ccw permit BUT that by the time you apply for and wade through the approval process it "might" be entirely too late by the time you have gotten approval.

All four reasons as you have stated them are legit justifications IMO. Unfortunately not everyone "in power" agrees.

Ironballs
04-08-2006, 9:09 PM
what is the legality for a Los Angeles resident, to apply in another county?

linuxgunner
04-08-2006, 9:37 PM
what is the legality for a Los Angeles resident, to apply in another county?

In theory, you could get a non-res permit that's valid for 90 days I think. I think it's only valid in that other county. In practice I wouldn't even try to do this; it's a lot of hassle to get a 90 day permit that isn't even valid where you live.

Paladin
04-09-2006, 10:16 AM
I live in Oaktown.<snip>

I am going to apply in Alameda county on the premise that Oakland is dangerously under policed and I can't depend on them to even show up to a crime scene much as less actually save someones life. And when they deny me maybe I will sue the county sherriff.
In fact every CalGuns member in Oakland should do the same.

Seems like I may have spoken too soon. I was just at the DOJ site and came across this in the Q&A section ( http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/pubfaqs.htm#3 ):

"How can I obtain a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) license?

Contact your county's Sheriff's Office or, if you are a resident of an incorporated city, your city's Police Department, for information on obtaining a CCW license. They can answer your questions and provide you with copies of their CCW policy statement and the State's Standardized CCW Application. If you live within a jurisdiction of a city Police Department, you may apply to the county Sheriff's Office for a CCW license. However, only residents of a city may apply to a city's Police Department for a CCW license."

So, you may be able to go thru either the sheriff or the Oakland Chief, although I think I remember reading that often cities & counties have agreements saying one or the other will process that city's CCW license applicants.

Ford8N
04-09-2006, 11:30 AM
What I think is totally bogus is that if you live in a freedom county and get a CHL, you can carry in a non-free county or city. That's BS!!!!

artherd
04-10-2006, 10:18 PM
4. For those times you have to go to a bad part of town, or get lost in an unfamiliar city or stay out later than usual.
5. Some dirtbag could climb into your neighbor's window during her slumber party, abduct a teenager at knifepoint, kidnap, rape and murder her, right in your hometown, not 3 blocks from your house in a 'great' small town in a 'crime free' area.

Don't laugh, it happened to me. We miss you Polly.