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View Full Version : Since Nordyke is the next step, what's next exactly?


CHS
06-28-2010, 1:25 PM
So, last I checked the "next step" regarding the 2A in CA was Nordyke.

Can someone please explain exactly what happens next?

Nordyke went en-banc, but was then put on hold because of Mcdonald. Now that Mcdonald has been decided, Nordyke should proceed, right? How soon?

What are the current cases actually waiting on Nordyke, and how fast does anyone think it will be for those to proceed?

wildhawker
06-28-2010, 1:29 PM
Only Peņa is held pending Nordyke; Sykes will continue in 60 days. Everything else is going forward.

wash
06-28-2010, 1:42 PM
The interesting thing is that the Nordyke decision is going to be re-written.

In the origional, we got incorporation but nothing else.

Now that McDonald vs. Chicago has given us incorporation, Don Kilmer can argue the rest of the issue and try to get the right to hold a gun show in the Alameda County Fair Grounds.

I think that's a "sensitive places" issue and if we lose, it's ready to petition for cert. at SCOTUS.

Nordyke is huge and that's what I'm going to be asking about at the party tonight.

CHS
06-28-2010, 1:50 PM
So, the real question is why is Pena being held up by Nordyke?

The way I understand it, Pena was filed after Nordyke incorporated in the 9th, so it would make sense to "wait" until it's decided. But since we have incorporation federally, is there a way to separate Pena from Nordyke, allowing it to proceed on its own while Nordyke is being re-decided?

steadyrock
06-28-2010, 2:06 PM
It was Cid who requested the stay until after Nordyke, and Judge Damrell gave the order, granting the request. It's unlikely that the defendant in the case would lift his request now.

ke6guj
06-28-2010, 2:09 PM
The interesting thing is that the Nordyke decision is going to be re-written.

In the origional, we got incorporation but nothing else.

Now that McDonald vs. Chicago has given us incorporation, Don Kilmer can argue the rest of the issue and try to get the right to hold a gun show in the Alameda County Fair Grounds.

I think that's a "sensitive places" issue and if we lose, it's ready to petition for cert. at SCOTUS.

Nordyke is huge and that's what I'm going to be asking about at the party tonight.I'd like to know if they re-argue Nordyke en-banc, with new amicus briefs, or is the original en-banc arguement used and the full en-banc court releases an opinion based on it with the new McDonald ruling considered. Or do they remand it back to a lower court to start all over, AGAIN.

It would be nice for Don Kilmer to the get the fair grounds back, at least so that he'd be more likely to get paid.

ke6guj
06-28-2010, 2:11 PM
It was Cid who requested the stay until after Nordyke, and Judge Damrell gave the order, granting the request. It's unlikely that the defendant in the case would lift his request now.but couldn't the plaintiffs request that the stay be lifted, due to McDonald.

RomanDad
06-28-2010, 2:16 PM
but couldn't the plaintiffs request that the stay be lifted, due to McDonald.

Id be surprise if there was still any interest on the 9th to rule EnBanc on nordyke.... I wouldnt be surprised to see an order vacating the enbanc request and letting the original three judge panel opinion stand. Something like that could come down VERY quickly just for the sake of judicial economy.

RomanDad
06-28-2010, 2:19 PM
I'd like to know if they re-argue Nordyke en-banc, with new amicus briefs, or is the original en-banc arguement used and the full en-banc court releases an opinion based on it with the new McDonald ruling considered. Or do they remand it back to a lower court to start all over, AGAIN.

It would be nice for Don Kilmer to the get the fair grounds back, at least so that he'd be more likely to get paid.

The arguments have been heard. All that remains for the court to do is issue a decision. That can take the form of a full opinion, or it can be as simple as the few sentences that put the whole thing on hold in the first place.

wash
06-28-2010, 2:34 PM
I'm pretty sure that we won't get stuck with the old decision. Since we only got incorporation, there isn't much to lose by fighting for a gun show.

I believe Don Kilmer's brief for the en banc was arguing the whole decision, not just saying we want to keep incorporation. The incorporation issue has been settled now but I don't think the court can just throw out the rest unless Don's arguments are garbage and that's not like him.

dantodd
06-28-2010, 2:41 PM
Id be surprise if there was still any interest on the 9th to rule EnBanc on nordyke.... I wouldnt be surprised to see an order vacating the enbanc request and letting the original three judge panel opinion stand. Something like that could come down VERY quickly just for the sake of judicial economy.

I would be very happy with that result it would streamline the process for Don to file his appeal to SCOTUS. Mt understanding is that the Nordykes are willing to continue the case and with incorporation not on the line there is no reason to NOT appeal.

N6ATF
06-28-2010, 2:59 PM
Id be surprise if there was still any interest on the 9th to rule EnBanc on nordyke.... I wouldnt be surprised to see an order vacating the enbanc request and letting the original three judge panel opinion stand. Something like that could come down VERY quickly just for the sake of judicial economy.

I'm not seeing where the federal court system is interested one whit about judicial economy, if it pertains to the 2A/14A. Seems like they want to be dealing with infringements for the next generation, at least.

Sure, we can't expect they will be ruling "you deserve to be executed for treason, YOU deserve to be executed for treason..." but there are almost infinite degrees between that and the time-economically wasteful way they're going about it currently.

the_quark
06-28-2010, 3:27 PM
Bottom line - Peņa is held pending decision in Nordyke. As far as we know right now, there's no way to appeal that or change the judge's opinion on it. Nordyke should have no further argument - we're just waiting for the opinion from the 9th Circuit en banc, no further argument is needed. That could come next week. It could also take eighteen months (I saw it take that long once to simply affirm the three-judge panel).

Whenever Nordyke comes out - and no one knows when that will be - Peņa will move forward. Until then, under our current understanding, we're just waiting. A realistic guess might be "three months-ish", but it's just a guess, and no one knows.

dantodd
06-28-2010, 3:38 PM
Bottom line - Peņa is held pending decision in Nordyke. As far as we know right now, there's no way to appeal that or change the judge's opinion on it. Nordyke should have no further argument - we're just waiting for the opinion from the 9th Circuit en banc, no further argument is needed. That could come next week. It could also take eighteen months (I saw it take that long once to simply affirm the three-judge panel).

Whenever Nordyke comes out - and no one knows when that will be - Peņa will move forward. Until then, under our current understanding, we're just waiting. A realistic guess might be "three months-ish", but it's just a guess, and no one knows.

What's to prevent someone from boiler plating a similar case and filing now? It might move faster than waiting on Nordyke.

wildhawker
06-28-2010, 3:41 PM
What's to prevent someone from boiler plating a similar case and filing now? It might move faster than waiting on Nordyke.

Related cases.

dantodd
06-28-2010, 3:52 PM
Related cases.


That would stop a case? It seems to have had no effect on Peruta.

Window_Seat
06-28-2010, 4:38 PM
When will Nordyke come out?

Erik.

steadyrock
06-28-2010, 4:47 PM
When will Nordyke come out?

Erik.

See below.

Whenever Nordyke comes out - and no one knows when that will be - Peņa will move forward. Until then, under our current understanding, we're just waiting. A realistic guess might be "three months-ish", but it's just a guess, and no one knows.

Grakken
06-28-2010, 4:53 PM
I'm not seeing where the federal court system is interested one whit about judicial economy, if it pertains to the 2A/14A. Seems like they want to be dealing with infringements for the next generation, at least.


This.