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View Full Version : Planning an AR Pistol build (Oregonian) that might go into California occasionally


Saakee
06-27-2010, 8:34 PM
Recently while looking at PS90s and rolling my eyes as their costs, I had an idea. I had seen the AR57 and had been somewhat enamored of it for use as a PDW, mid-range varmint work and as a truck gun(plus, same diameter and barrel threading as .223/5.56 so same suppressor can be used on both).

I have reason to travel to cali occasionally (photography and friends) and bring high end optics and electronics with me. Since I'm usually bringing everything I hold dear, I decided to setup my sidearm and rifle (Well, one small problem there, is my A2 Birdcage a flash hider or a muzzle brake, need to look that up) so I could bring them as well.

The current build idea would incorporate these parts:
11" ar57 upper (and maglock for it)
Pistol receiver (Noveske most likely)
Hammerhead Stock Adapter
TLR-2 or equivalent laser/light combo
CMMG Striker Vortex (Which I'm assuming is verbotten in cali but if I'm wrong, please let me know, I hope it's not)

Possible incorporation into build:
FAB Defense Mag Well Grip
or
Magpul AFG-2 (more likely)
ACE AR15 Ultra Lite Stock

My main questions are:
1a: With the HSA, will the build be negated as a pistol?
1b: Does a pistol build require a pistol grip?
2: is the carbide tipped CMMG Striker Vortex verbotten in California?
3: If it's an AOW owned by an Oregon trust, are there any problems bringing it in?
4: Can I establish a California trust to transfer weapons between or are there multi-state trusts or is only one trust required?
5: If a Pistol build has been AOW'ed then SBR'ed, with the stock off, is it still an SBR or is it temporarily an AOW again until the stock is put back on?

Quiet
06-27-2010, 10:55 PM
My main questions are:
1a: With the HSA, will the build be negated as a pistol?
1b: Does a pistol build require a pistol grip?
2: is the carbide tipped CMMG Striker Vortex verbotten in California?
3: If it's an AOW owned by an Oregon trust, are there any problems bringing it in?
4: Can I establish a California trust to transfer weapons between or are there multi-state trusts or is only one trust required?
5: If a Pistol build has been AOW'ed then SBR'ed, with the stock off, is it still an SBR or is it temporarily an AOW again until the stock is put back on?

1a: No. It will still need to conform with CA handgun "assault weapons" laws.
1b: No.
2: No. With a magazine lock, it's legal to be installed on a handgun or rifle.
3: No. BATFE approved AOWs are CA legal. Remember to keep a copy of your paperwork with the firearm.
4: Not sure.
5: Once a shoulder stock is attached it will be a SBR and will no longer be an AOW. So, prior to attaching a shoulder stock, you will need BATFE approval to make your AOW into a SBR.

Flopper
06-27-2010, 11:10 PM
No reason to bother with the HSA.

In addition to it not helping get around AW status on a pistol, Hammerhead STOCK Adapter on an AR pistol sounds like constructive possession of an SBR.

Saakee
06-28-2010, 12:11 AM
I'm using all information gained on forums as a guide, not as definitive information.

Quiet:
1a: No. It will still need to conform with CA handgun "assault weapons" laws. Thank you
1b: No. Thank you
2: No. With a magazine lock, it's legal to be installed on a handgun or rifle. Thank you
3: No. BATFE approved AOWs are CA legal. Remember to keep a copy of your paperwork with the firearm. Thank you
4: Not sure.
5: Once a shoulder stock is attached it will be a SBR and will no longer be an AOW. So, prior to attaching a shoulder stock, you will need BATFE approval to make your AOW into a SBR. I understand this, I should've made myself clearer, if you've registered your receiver as an AOW then done so again as an SBR, then remove the stock, is it still an SBR or does it revert to AOW until stock is back on. Perhaps I shall not use the A2 buffer tube like I planned.

Flopper:
The purpose of the HSA on this build is to approximate the dimensions of the PS90 with an AR build, it's not to get around the AW status. I do plan to write to the BATFE before the build time comes around this winter. If they say the build will be an SBR, I'll order the receiver first, get the paperwork done, then finish the build: I'll just put it in the safe before going to California.

I do understand the constructive possession idea, but not sure how that is decided: wouldn't that only hold true if I had an actual stock somewhere nearby that could easily be attached? If so, the only other stock I currently own is a PR/S from Magpul on my .458S AR. To add that to this build would mean taking apart an all ready assembled receiver.

I presume I write to someone in the CADOJ for making sure the pistol version of the build is legal in California? IF so, would someone be able to point me to the address or number?

Quiet
06-28-2010, 12:53 AM
I'mI understand this, I should've made myself clearer, if you've registered your receiver as an AOW then done so again as an SBR, then remove the stock, is it still an SBR or does it revert to AOW until stock is back on. Perhaps I shall not use the A2 buffer tube like I planned.
It's still a SBR.
Once you make the AOW into an SBR, it's a SBR.
With a shoulder stock or without a shoulder stock, it's now a SBR.

Saakee
06-28-2010, 1:43 AM
It's still a SBR.
Once you make the AOW into an SBR, it's a SBR.
With a shoulder stock or without a shoulder stock, it's now a SBR.
That's what I figured.

Saakee
06-30-2010, 1:17 AM
RE: the CMMG Striker
Do muzzle brakes/flash suppressors need to be silver soldered on? The barrel thread question on the flowchart threw me.

I also did a 5 min. mockup of the AOW build for those interested. I'm calling it the 'dog's leg.' (I think I have the HSA on it oversized by about ten percent *sigh*)
http://i46.tinypic.com/5k4njd.jpg

Quiet
06-30-2010, 4:14 AM
RE: the CMMG Striker
Do muzzle brakes/flash suppressors need to be silver soldered on? The barrel thread question on the flowchart threw me.

I also did a 5 min. mockup of the AOW build for those interested. I'm calling it the 'dog's leg.' (I think I have the HSA on it oversized by about ten percent *sigh*)
http://i46.tinypic.com/5k4njd.jpg

There is no need for a muzzle attachment on semi-auto pistol with a fixed magazine to be permanently attached.

In regards to the AOW mockup.
IMO. Move the light to one of the side rails and put the AFG where Magpul intended it to be at.

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/afg_6-420x315.jpg

Exile Machine
06-30-2010, 4:50 AM
...Hammerhead STOCK Adapter on an AR pistol sounds like constructive possession of an SBR.

Just FYI, I don't know if this helps, but if you chop the Hammerhead like this, it can no longer accept a stock:

http://exilemachine.com/images/5k4njd.jpg

It's very easy to do it with a hacksaw, and it still provides a very solid grip.

BTW I'm an engineer not a lawyer...

-Mark

Saakee
06-30-2010, 2:53 PM
There is no need for a muzzle attachment on semi-auto pistol with a fixed magazine to be permanently attached.

In regards to the AOW mockup.
IMO. Move the light to one of the side rails and put the AFG where Magpul intended it to be at.

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/afg_6-420x315.jpg
good to know about the brake.
I thought about that. I saw the supination bit in the other section of the forum. I probably will since it will make thumb activation easier I think.
Just FYI, I don't know if this helps, but if you chop the Hammerhead like this, it can no longer accept a stock:

http://exilemachine.com/images/5k4njd.jpg

It's very easy to do it with a hacksaw, and it still provides a very solid grip.

BTW I'm an engineer not a lawyer...

-Mark
That is also good to know, I was actually going to reply to my emails from you with the mockup but since you saw it here, no need to open my inbox.

I'm really leaning towards doing this as an SBR build since I would be able to connect the buffer tube and an upside down mounted ACE ultra lite stock to do a ps90ish stock to it.

http://i45.tinypic.com/zob5mh.jpg

I know there are thumbhole stocks out there but they still have the pistol grip design. If I could find one that has a rifle grip to it, I would look into that in a second.

Flopper
06-30-2010, 3:23 PM
Nothing against the HSA to make a featureless rifle build, but why are you so infatuated with it for a PISTOL build anyway?

Is it so you can go featureless once you SBR it?