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View Full Version : How much less are LEO's affected by our gun laws.


SkyStorm82
04-06-2006, 9:33 PM
What kind of restrictions do LEO's have in regards to normal capacity magazines?

I know the ones they carry in their handguns are normal caps....but can they buy them for their personal weapons too?....other handguns?....rifles?...Do they need permission from the brass for the personal ones?...etc.

Edited to add: Whoops...I didn't mean to put this in the sub forum of gun rights....Mods can we move this?

drawn
04-06-2006, 10:25 PM
I know of a deal to buy real ARs (with a dept letter)that fell through once the LEO's found out if they quit the department they couldn't take them when they left.

xenophobe
04-06-2006, 10:34 PM
LEOs must wait ten days for personal firearms, may not buy sell trade or loan high capacity magazines or assault weapons. They must provide proof of residency when buying a handgun. They are exempt from HSC Certification.

Of course, with letterhead, they may buy non-SB15 handguns, assault weapons (most agencies will not give an officer an AW letter), and with a letter may buy high-capacity mags, all if they are stated on the letterhead to be used for official duty. Letters for personal use are not valid.

slick_711
04-06-2006, 10:55 PM
I know of a deal to buy real ARs (with a dept letter)that fell through once the LEO's found out if they quit the department they couldn't take them when they left.


From what I understand that's not the case. They do need a dept. letterhead to purchase banned weapons (ARs for example, off-list pistols, and hi-cap mags) but depending on your department those letters can be easy or hard to obtain. The way it was explained to me once they own it it's theirs, even if they leave the department, since they're buying it in their name legally, although under departmental permission. That may not be the case, but that's how my boss explained it to me.

filefish
04-06-2006, 10:58 PM
they need a letter from Ltn. or above

swhatb
04-06-2006, 11:06 PM
What kind of restrictions do LEO's have in regards to normal capacity magazines?
believe it or not, some CA LEA won't let officers carry there high-cap mags off duty, so there stuck with the 10-rounders. if they do, some have restrictions that only can be used with there dept. weapon. luckely most aren't like that.

I know the ones they carry in their handguns are normal caps....but can they buy them for their personal weapons too?....other handguns?....rifles?...Do they need permission from the brass for the personal ones?...etc.
most LEA no. some LEA say they must. other LEA don't care but when they leave (retire, quite, etc) they need to turn them in. those LEA have them notifiy the dept. of such purchase.

LEOs are stuck with the same laws as the "normal" Kalifornia's, unless there dept. gives discreation.

blackrifle
04-07-2006, 12:14 AM
Yes, our ridiculous CA gun laws affect LEO's the same way when it comes to personal weapons. A buddy of mine (who was part my "group buy") carries a 11" SBR AR15 on duty with issued 20 round magazines. Another buddy of mine (also part of the group buy) carries a MP5 on duty. Both of these guys have to, by law, have a neutered AR15 with a fixed 10 round magazine at home. Of course, neither one of these guys are SWAT...they're in a "slightly" different category. :)

artherd
04-07-2006, 12:57 AM
LEOs must wait ten days for personal firearms, may not buy sell trade or loan high capacity magazines or assault weapons. They must provide proof of residency when buying a handgun. They are exempt from HSC Certification.

Of course, with letterhead, they may buy non-SB15 handguns, assault weapons (most agencies will not give an officer an AW letter), and with a letter may buy high-capacity mags, all if they are stated on the letterhead to be used for official duty. Letters for personal use are not valid.

Now no letter required for high-cap magazines, just show LEO ID. (NOTE: the requirement for 'duty use' still may be present, at least in declatory fassion,)

TrailerparkTrash
04-07-2006, 1:26 AM
Man, a lot of bad information here. I read a lot of "...a friend of mine told me..." Or something similar to that.

Basically, a sworn LEO in CA is exempt from the hi-cap magazine ban of more than 10 rounds. Read below:

CA Penal code states: 12020 (b) subdivision (a) does not apply to the following:
(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.


Okay, notice that in paragraph (20), it states : "...who is authorized to carry A Firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties."

It does not specifically state that the officer can only carry hi caps for his "duty firearm." It just says an officer authorized to carry "A" firearm in the scope of his duties.

Bottom line, police/sheriff deputies do not need a letter from their department to purchase a hi cap magazine in CA. Now, some departments may have a policy which is different from the state law, requiring cops not to carry hicaps off duty. I've never heard of such a thing in CA, but that doesn't mean it doen't happen.

Does anyone here know of a CA department that doesn't allow their officers to carry hicaps off duty? Please let us know. I'd love to write a letter to the weak chief/sheriff of that town and let them have it!

Moving on to firearms:

Yes, cops need to wait the 10 days for the firearms, however if the officer's agency gives a letter bypassing the 10 day wait, the gun store owner may hand over the gun. The letter is basically a guarantee to the store owner FFL that the law enforecment agency is basically vouching for the officer that he is not a crook etc... That the officer is using the gun for officical business either on or off duty..... it releases the liability from the seller and allows him to sell the gun right away. (lay man's terms).

AW's, yes, most departments will not grant letters, however it is legal for them to do so. Also, cops were/are NOT exempt from registering their privately owned AW's a few years ago. If the officer didn't register it and gets caught, he's in big trouble with the state and probably his department. Cops are held to higher standards regardless of what the general public thinks or perceives.

Other than that, the laws are screwed up for both sworn and non sworn.

Guinness
04-07-2006, 11:37 AM
I know of a deal to buy real ARs (with a dept letter)that fell through once the LEO's found out if they quit the department they couldn't take them when they left.


Not only that, some of the agencies will only allow them to practice at police ranges.. not a public / private range.. In other words, if your not on duty you shouldnt be shooting it..

homerm14
04-07-2006, 11:53 AM
Trailerparktrash hit the nail on the head. LEO's only exemption without a letter are hi cap magazines. I have had no problem purchasing magazines from local gun stores.

xenophobe
04-07-2006, 12:07 PM
Basically, a sworn LEO in CA is exempt from the hi-cap magazine ban of more than 10 rounds. Read below:

When you assume, you make an *** out of yourself. Do you have a High Capacity Magazine Permit? We're required by the state to keep a bound record book similar to what an FFL does for disposition of firearms.

We log in any high-capacity magazines that come into store inventory, and we must photocopy IDs, and write the disposition of such magazines. We also require that a police officer recieve written permission from their department to purchase them.

Guess what Mr Misinformation... Most local police agencies HAVE these High Capacity Mag letters pre-printed. IF they're preprinted form letters, why do they need them? Off Duty police officers are NOT exempt from the High Capacity magazine ban unless their purchase is for duty use with letterhead or they own them prior to Jan 1, 2000.

Flashing a badge very well may be legal, but to the guidelines of the HCMP it is not enough. If the regulations on such have changed since 2000, we have not been notified of that. Sure, I've known many gun show and kitchen table dealers sell High-Caps with only seeing an ID, but Traders, as well as LC Action and our store all require this form letter.

grammaton76
04-07-2006, 12:14 PM
Flashing a badge very well may be legal, but to the guidelines of the HCMP it is not enough. If the regulations on such have changed since 2000, we have not been notified of that. Sure, I've known many gun show and kitchen table dealers sell High-Caps with only seeing an ID, but Traders, as well as LC Action and our store all require this form letter.

Ok, I'm neither LE nor ever likely to have an HCMP, but I'm curious now. It looks to me like the HCMP only handicaps the California dealer of full-capacity magazines. However, if the magazine ban doesn't affect the LEO directly (only indirectly through the HCMP), does that mean it's legal for them to purchase them out of state and personally import them?

homerm14
04-07-2006, 2:36 PM
Interesting, I have purchased hi caps from Traders, and know other Officers who have purchased from LC Action with no letter. I don't clame to be an expert of the law (even though some people think I should be) but was informed at the end of the Federal ban no letter was needed for LEO's. I will do some research and see what I can find out.

bballin21
04-07-2006, 4:24 PM
Well being a LEO i know i have purchased hi cap mags for my glock without a letter. I was told we no longer need letters just our ID/Badge. Hey I guess it just depends where you live in the state. I live in SO. Cal.

DigglerD
04-07-2006, 4:30 PM
...We also require that a police officer recieve written permission from their department to purchase them.

Clarify store policy or law? If it is a common store policy, it would explain why departments have them pre-printed.

Flashing a badge very well may be legal, but to the guidelines of the HCMP it is not enough...

I went searching... what is HCMP? And are they guidelines or law?

Josh
04-07-2006, 5:55 PM
Maybe it was the federal ban that required the letter, anyone think of that?

Da_shotcaller
04-07-2006, 10:04 PM
A few months ago few guys in my department was asking for a letterhead to get a high cap mag. They were told by the range master that a letterhead is no longer necessary since the federal AW ban expired. I wonder if that will work with the high cap mag for the AR 15 :D

Da_shotcaller
04-07-2006, 10:07 PM
Forgot to mention they were asking for High cap mag for their off duty firearm not the department issued firearm.

xenophobe
04-08-2006, 12:05 AM
HCMP= High-Capacity Magazine Permit. It is a state permit so we may buy and sell high capacity magazines legitimately. It does require that whomever we sell high capacity magazines to be recorded.

Perhaps the requirement for the letter is Federal, if that's the case, we still require one. A police officer can't just buy high-capacity magazines for off duty use.

SB-23 applies to all people, except for government, military and law enforcement for use in their official duties, NOT for personal use.

A letter is also required for purchasing SB-15 banned handguns as well.

kantstudien
04-08-2006, 12:20 AM
Perhaps the requirement for the letter is Federal, if that's the case, we still require one. A police officer can't just buy high-capacity magazines for off duty use...

A letter is also required for purchasing SB-15 banned handguns as well.

The letter was both federal and state (Kali). If you were a LEO and you received a letter for an AR-15, it needed to distinguish whether you were to be getting a federally restricted (AWB) or state restricted rifle. Obviously this was prior to the sunset in 2004.

Now the letter is only a state requirement for assault weapons and non-approved handguns for duty use only. However, I do not think a letter is still required for high-caps, only an affidavit (or maybe placing one's hand on a Bible?) stating that they are for "duty-use only."

blackrifle
04-08-2006, 2:54 AM
Now the letter is only a state requirement for assault weapons and non-approved handguns for duty use only. However, I do not think a letter is still required for high-caps, only an affidavit (or maybe placing one's hand on a Bible?) stating that they are for "duty-use only."

No letter is required for standard capacity magazines. I was present when such a transaction happened. If you don't believe me, call LAPRAAC and ask...

Josh
04-08-2006, 3:12 AM
you guys forget that an LEO technically always had LE powers.

so he is technically never "off duty"

Whatever he or she carries on or off duty can be considered in the course of their duties.

Da_shotcaller
04-08-2006, 9:08 AM
HCMP= High-Capacity Magazine Permit. It is a state permit so we may buy and sell high capacity magazines legitimately. It does require that whomever we sell high capacity magazines to be recorded.


From what i heard they just used the department id and badge instead of a letterhead. A copy of the departments id can be used as a proof that you sold a High cap mag to a particular LEO.

[/QUOTE]
Perhaps the requirement for the letter is Federal, if that's the case, we still require one. A police officer can't just buy high-capacity magazines for off duty use.
[/QUOTE]

Well maybe what you mean is for personal use. As I said on my earlier post I got high cap mag on my firearms that I qualify for off duty use. Yes, it's my own firearm but once you qualify to use it for off duty use it is now consider being use for official duties. LE are peace officer 24 hrs a day per CA PC, so anytime you take actions in a lawful manner to prevent a crime or render aid to someone, that makes it official duties.
[/QUOTE]

scootergmc
04-08-2006, 9:31 AM
Guess what Mr Misinformation... Most local police agencies HAVE these High Capacity Mag letters pre-printed. IF they're preprinted form letters, why do they need them? Off Duty police officers are NOT exempt from the High Capacity magazine ban unless their purchase is for duty use with letterhead or they own them prior to Jan 1, 2000.


Cite please... so far, I've only seen the cite that says it's OK.

Dump1567
04-08-2006, 10:30 AM
I've dealt with a shop that required this so called log of hi-caps. I have yet to see anything in writing on this. I discussed this with KJ from the DOJ when she was there (don't know where she went to). She was very knowledgable on the subject. She stated no log was required & LEO could bring hi-caps into CA from other states or have them shipped to a LCMP dealer to be picked-up. I think these dispo. logs came about through DOJ inspectors misinformation:mad: . The only shop I know that does this knows less about guns or gun laws than your average person here. All the other shops I frequent just require a quick view of an LE I.D. and ANY hi-cap magazine I want is mine. Again, if there's an official document from the DOJ about Dispo. logs please post it. I'll gladly make copies to distribute to my local shops. Law and Order everytime.;)

As for other stuff:
Non-approved handguns with a letter.
More than 1 handgun a month with a letter.
AW with a letter & than registration.

xenophobe
04-08-2006, 12:23 PM
Cite please... so far, I've only seen the cite that says it's OK.

I'm NOT taking this stance because I want to... In the words of an attorney I know, (paraphrased) "in the perfect world you can have your 10 year old son or daughter go to Home Depot and pick up your high cap mags and replacement parts for your full auto MP5"...


12020.(b)

(19) The sale of, giving of, lending of, importation into this state of, or purchase of, any large-capacity magazine to or by any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.

(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

(30)(A) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.


Sec 19, states selling these directly to the agency is fine, but an individual officer needs authorization. Sorry, no Beta Cs for traffic cops.

Sec 20, there might be some lieniency here, but read section 19 and section 30, but this would probably only include magazines for duty use. *shrug* I'm not a lawyer.

Sec 30(A), the term 'authorized by their agency'.


Please show me California CCR or PC regulation that states 'authorization' is not required. I would love to avoid this BS paperwork, and any proof YOU can provide will help the local LEOs in my area and I would most appreciate this.

Josh
04-08-2006, 1:33 PM
I'm NOT taking this stance because I want to... In the words of an attorney I know, (paraphrased) "in the perfect world you can have your 10 year old son or daughter go to Home Depot and pick up your high cap mags and replacement parts for your full auto MP5"...



Sec 19, states selling these directly to the agency is fine, but an individual officer needs authorization. Sorry, no Beta Cs for traffic cops.

Sec 20, there might be some lieniency here, but read section 19 and section 30, but this would probably only include magazines for duty use. *shrug* I'm not a lawyer.

Sec 30(A), the term 'authorized by their agency'.


Please show me California CCR or PC regulation that states 'authorization' is not required. I would love to avoid this BS paperwork, and any proof YOU can provide will help the local LEOs in my area and I would most appreciate this.

SEC 19 and 30 reads more like that the sale to agencies that want to in turn let their offiicers use them is ok. As in letting their officers borrow or lend to them the magazines.

SEC 20 is dealing directly with the officer.

But hey your the gun store employee Im sure you know more about this.

xenophobe
04-08-2006, 1:37 PM
Our understanding is that it is required. DOJ audits are not a fun thing either. I would love to see an opinion letter stating that it's not required.

I know plenty of officers that would love to buy high-caps for their ARs, AKs, and other firearms that they don't use specifically as duty or authorized carry weapons.

Dump1567
04-08-2006, 8:48 PM
(20) The sale to, lending to, transfer to, purchase by, receipt of, or importation into this state of, a large capacity magazine by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

Maybe this is just worded poorly, but no where in this section does it say the hi-caps have to be used for duty use. It just exempts those that are defined as peace officers who are authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties. You can read into it "duty use only", but I don't think anyone else is.
And from the Assault Weapons ID guide:
Peace officers (distinct from law enforcement agencies) who are authorized to carry firearms in the course and
scope or their duties are exempted. This exemption includes the sale to, lending to, purchase of, purchase by,
receipt of, or importation into the state of large capacity magazines.

Even in the AW guide, DOJ didn't try to clarify this as only for official use.

And finally in my phone conversation with KJ from the DOJ in 2004 (anyone in the gun bis. knows that KJ up in Sac. knew her poop on the law),she stated no log was needed & hi-caps could be bought with I.D. card only. She never stated for duty use only.

Am I wrong? Also, you still haven't stated who is requiring you to keep a hi-cap log? If I carry a patrol rifle (AR, mini, MP5) how is selling me hi-caps for these any different than selling me hi-caps for my Glocks? The DOJ can't expect you to know every officer in every dept. and what gun they are using on or off duty for official use. You can do whatever you want, but instead of wasting your time discussing this on a forum, why don't you contact the DOJ for the true answer. As for me, I'll keep going to my local cop shop and buying all the hi-caps I can.

California-Quigley
04-09-2006, 12:18 AM
hmmmm, up untill the fed ban sunseted i needed letterhead to buy hi cap mags. now a the dealer photocopies my police ID and CalOP and i am off and away. this works for rifle mags too.

i am a peace officer 24/7/365 so this on-off duty thingy is wierd. never heard about it.

my agency gives AW letters to every copper that wants one. we have to buy certain rifles due to the fact the department will maintain them. (we can choose- colt, Bushy's, RRA, armalite, stag, and DPMS)

most agencies mandate that you carry hi cap mags and that all your mags are topped off.

i buy most my mags out of state anyway.... lonewolf dist, or other companies.... cheaper that way.

LAPRAAC is the best source for info. the LAPD is real restrictive with their coppers. they keep tabs on the duty guns they can buy. i don't know many LA coppers that have AR letters. But i know they get issued m16's.

so.... just my contribution

Dump1567
04-09-2006, 9:30 AM
my agency gives AW letters to every copper that wants one. we have to buy certain rifles due to the fact the department will maintain them. (we can choose- colt, Bushy's, RRA, armalite, stag, and DPMS)


I'm hoping one day we get a pro-gun Capt. at the range that will give letters for AW's. That way the cops in my dept. could legally buy the same rifle that any average citizen can buy in AZ or NV:rolleyes: . I've gone with the Mini-14 platform. Less restrictions. The 20 round factory mags seem to work rather well. This week I should be picking-up my new 16 inch LE version. Same as the standard stainless/syn., just 2 inches shorter. I also think they shortened the stock by 1/2 inch for use with armor. Comes with 2- 20 rounders. If your LEO and interested, send me an IM and I'll tell you my source. Price is about $620 shipped. Here's what they look like:
http://nas4.atlanta.gbhinc.com/GB/045518000/45518780/pix1432214532.jpg

Da_shotcaller
04-09-2006, 10:02 AM
I'm NOT taking this stance because I want to... In the words of an attorney I know, (paraphrased) "in the perfect world you can have your 10 year old son or daughter go to Home Depot and pick up your high cap mags and replacement parts for your full auto MP5"...

In the perfect world you won't need a firearm. We all be living in a peaceful harmony :D . Didn't they made a movie like that? I remember the Demolition man. Can you imagine having only Taco Bell as a fast food restaurant. :D


[/QUOTE]Sec 19, states selling these directly to the agency is fine, but an individual officer needs authorization. Sorry, no Beta Cs for traffic cops.

Sec 20, there might be some lieniency here, but read section 19 and section 30, but this would probably only include magazines for duty use. *shrug* I'm not a lawyer.

Sec 30(A), the term 'authorized by their agency'. [/QUOTE]

Now this you cited this from 12020 right. You forgot to a minor wording that could mean a lot of difference when reading it as just 12020 (b) compare to 12020. (b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:

[/QUOTE] Please show me California CCR or PC regulation that states 'authorization' is not required. I would love to avoid this BS paperwork, and any proof YOU can provide will help the local LEOs in my area and I would most appreciate this. [/QUOTE]

As far as authorization, well like what I mentioned on my earlier post we used to ask for a letterhead for HCM when the Federal AWB was enforced. But after it expired we were told that we don't need one anymore. Im not saying you are wrong but that's what we been told.;)

As far a you guys keeping a record for HCM I do believe you it's one of your requirement to keep your HCMP.

978.43 Large Capacity Magazine Permit Record Keeping Permittees shall maintain acquisition and disposition transaction records of the importation and exportation of large capacity magazines. Records shall include transaction date, transaction volume; and the name, address, and Federal Firearms License number (if any) of the out of state transferee or transferor. Records must be maintained at the dealership for three years and be made available to representatives of the Department of Justice or any other law enforcement agency upon request.

I didn't see anything that say "and must be accompanied by a Department Letterhead". ;)

And as far as LEO wanting to buy HCM for their AR, well maybe they are authorized to use an AR. As far as AK I doubt it. As far as I know no LE department who authorized the used of AK as a department firearm. Other 830.1 in here correct me if I am wrong.

Dump1567
04-09-2006, 12:48 PM
978.43 Large Capacity Magazine Permit Record Keeping Permittees shall maintain acquisition and disposition transaction records of the importation and exportation of large capacity magazines. Records shall include transaction date, transaction volume; and the name, address, and Federal Firearms License number (if any) of the out of state transferee or transferor. Records must be maintained at the dealership for three years and be made available to representatives of the Department of Justice or any other law enforcement agency upon request.

Reading the above doesn't seem to have anything to do with LEO & hi-caps. As I read it, it requires you to long in or out your hi-caps from/sent out of state. It deals with importation and exportation. Nothing about in-state sales.

Article 4. Large Capacity Magazine Permits

978.40 Requirements for Large Capacity Magazine Permits Pursuant to Penal Code Section 12079

(a) This article applies to Penal Code section 12079 permits for the out of state importation and exportation of large capacity magazines as defined in Penal Code section 12020 (c)(25). Importation and exportation includes the transportation of magazines as necessary to complete a transfer to or from an out of state source.

Could this be the often mis-interpreted passage on hi-cap logs?:confused:

Disclaimer:
Sorry if it sounds like I'm beating a dead horse. In an over regulated but under inforced State, I don't have a lot of patience for "gun shop hoowy, misinterpretations of CA law, & just overall B.S.". I'll leave that to the internet;) .

xenophobe
04-09-2006, 2:12 PM
Okay, I really need to call DOJ and ask for some serious clarification now.

Thanks for all the responses... The only reason we implement such things is because we were told that these were the requirements when we obtained the HCMP.

I definitely need to investigate this further and consult with the DOJ on this one.

SJPD still brings in letters without us requesting them though, and this fact combined with what we've been told us to do may have led us to believe that things have not changed.

Dump1567
04-09-2006, 2:17 PM
Please post what you find out.

Da_shotcaller
04-09-2006, 2:22 PM
Thanks xenophobe. I hope this thing get clarify soon to avoid the confusion. Let us know what you find out.

Anyway do you have a HCM at your store or do you still have to order it :D

slowjonn
04-09-2006, 9:46 PM
Sorry, no Beta Cs for traffic cops.

Would you care to see a motor cop on his bike holding his legal Colt 6721 with said Beta mag?:D I know where one is.

The need for cops to have letters for mags died with the federal ban. While that was in force, they needed them. Now, no letter is needed, only an ID.

fav567
04-10-2006, 7:50 AM
my agency gives AW letters to every copper that wants one. we have to buy certain rifles due to the fact the department will maintain them. (we can choose- colt, Bushy's, RRA, armalite, stag, and DPMS)

do you mind telling which agency you work for.
And are they hiring :D

antarius
04-10-2006, 8:08 AM
do you mind telling which agency you work for.
And are they hiring :D
Hah! No kidding! My agency won't allow me to purchase an AR at all.. I've been forced to go the fixed magazine .223 rifle route!

But, on-topic; I can, and have, purchased hi capacity magazines without a letter.

Trader Jack
04-10-2006, 10:18 AM
Interesting, I have purchased hi caps from Traders, and know other Officers who have purchased from LC Action with no letter. I don't clame to be an expert of the law (even though some people think I should be) but was informed at the end of the Federal ban no letter was needed for LEO's. I will do some research and see what I can find out.

NO LETTER IS NEEDED for standard (hi-cap) magazines when purchased by a police officer. Only proper ID.The sale must be entered into a bound book. PERIOD:)

Da_shotcaller
04-10-2006, 10:54 AM
Hah! No kidding! My agency won't allow me to purchase an AR at all.. I've been forced to go the fixed magazine .223 rifle route!

But, on-topic; I can, and have, purchased hi capacity magazines without a letter.

Don't worry you got keltec su16 and ruger mini 14 as an option :D