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View Full Version : want to get a new pole need your input


Rbutler
06-27-2010, 11:58 AM
guys, after goign on my in shore trip to catalina yesterday, i want to get a nicer pole that is meant for the salt water. I would like some input on what you guys have used and how its works.

For the most part this will be for nothing major (no big tuna or sailfish) but i will be going out for some yellowfin and albacore that are in the 30lb round from what the ppl on the boat said. so specs i would like are

$$ - 150 to 200
spincasting reel
strong enough to take something larger if necessary but mainly going on charter boats (dana wharf)
will probably be using mono (if someone lets me know if braid is better please give me any input)
will be using 15-20lb line

hntnnut
06-27-2010, 12:09 PM
If Its gota be a spinning reel look at the Shimanno Baitrunner or something similar in the largest one they make ( I believe its a 6500 series) and match it with a cal-star 270 series rod. I wouldnt use braid on a cattle boat its asking for a fight.

Richard

winnre
06-27-2010, 12:15 PM
Well there is this patented fishing rod gun...

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/D523921.html

sevensix2x51
06-27-2010, 12:38 PM
bait caster.
http://www.alltackle.com/team_daiwa_luna_baitcaster.jpg
spinning reel.
http://www.digitaldagger.com/reels/daiwa/tda2500a.jpg
spincaster.
http://image.basspro.com/images/images2/300-000/330-477-00-a.jpg

i really dont think you want a spincaster for catalina. or any saltwater fishing, for that matter. baitcasters are the way to go, spinning reels just arent built for serious fighting. it all depends on your budget and how much of a fight you want to get into, but i like shimano calcutta reels, with an 8' mh/h rod, i am partial to the shimano crucial myself... the crucial oes for about $170, but has a lifetime, over the counter warranty. even if you roll it up in the car window and snap the tip off, take it to any shiomano dealer and they will exchange it for you. awesome. and i like fluorocarbon line, but its pretty expensive.

Fjold
06-27-2010, 2:23 PM
I don't think that they make a spin caster heavy enough for yellowfin and albacore. (Which are both tuna, BTW)

toby
06-27-2010, 2:29 PM
Guy's I think the OP has a budget of $200max for the whole outfit? if so the rod's that are being recommended are way overkill for him and for his first salt water rig he really does'nt need top eng gear? depending where you are located go to a good tackle store other than your local Turners and tell them you budget and they will set you up altough they will tell you one pole and reel is not for everything? they can get you started and set you in the right direction....good luck have fun. if you are close to me ''Whittier'' I will loan you a set up" PM me if so.

4Defense
06-27-2010, 2:42 PM
An advice I would give is do not over spend. Fishing tackle depreciate a lot. Perhaps at one point down the line you decide that you do not like fishing anymore, you loose quite a bit trying to sell your gears.

After experimenting with fishing rods for a few years, I've concluded that a $200-300 fishing rod does not have much of an advantage over say a $100 fishing rod.

Turners somtimes have decent sales on Graftech ($99) and Penn Californians ($70). Those are good fishing rods for the money compare to Seekers ,Calstar or G Loomis. One thing that all the fishing rods have in common and it does not matter which brand it is , they all break if you slam the car door on it.

Learn how to use a casting reel. It is not hard at all. It will cast farther and it has more power than a spinning reel.

In regard to the length of the rods, I would try to keep them at 7 feet except for the trolling rod. Some people think that the longer the rod, the farther it will cast. But from my experience, that's not the case. As the rod gets longer, it becomes more cubersome. I can cast with a 7 feet rod just as far or farther than say a 10 feet rod. The other problem is that if it's longer than 7 feet, you might have a problem transporting it or storing it in you garage.

If you only want one setup, I suggest getting the Graftech (Turners when on sale) and a Shimano Torium (Ebay). Your total would be around $250-270 for the rod and reel and you have a very good setup.

Have fun and good luck!

97F1504RAD
06-27-2010, 3:01 PM
Get yourself a Penn 9500SS spinning reel and a Ugly Stick Tiger Rod that will work wiht that reel.

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_22247_151002000_151000000_151002000_151-2-0

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_72135_151001000_151000000_151001000_151-1-0

Rbutler
06-27-2010, 4:35 PM
sorry i meant spinning reel, not spin casting. I have issues casting light weight baits with baitcasters so i like to go with the spinning. also less chance of a backlash which takes me out of the game for a bit.
as for the fighting i think the tops they get are the occasional tuna runs so i dont think i need anything with a major backbone.

sounds like getting used to a baitcasting reel is going to be what i need to do. i have a baitcasting rod all ready, a shimano saguaro (http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/rods/saltwater/Saguaro_Casting.html) as for baitcasting, are better reels going to be easy to cast lighter bait? if this rod is acceptable then i might be able to shift the budget to a better reel.

sevensix2x51
06-27-2010, 9:14 PM
im not trying to sound like a know-it-all, but i think youre going to have problems trying to land yellowtail (i think what youre thinking of) and albies with a spinning combo. they just arent stout enough... i think your best bet is to just practice with the baitcaster, and get a feel for light baits. casting is a simple technique, but its also pretty delicate. try to focus on a smooth cast, and make sure to control the spool with the right thumb. you can get rid of 90% of backlashes if you let the thumb drag a bit to slow the momentum of the spool at the very start of the cast, then stop the spool just before the bait hits water... i dont know if this helps, but give it a shot! a high quality rod and reel will definitely make your outings much more enjoyable. when you have quality rod, reel, AND line, you can cast further, with less backlash, and work the lure better, as well as have much better feel for a strike, and better hooksets. you really do get what you pay for. i would expect to pay $400 for a decent combo, if you only have $200, buy one half of the combo and save up for the other, while using the cheap stuff you may already have, or get at a pawnshop.

Thefeeder
06-27-2010, 10:35 PM
There is little or no casting. Last time was live bait droped over the side.....some people were casting lures.

A 7 foot carstar, Fenwick, penn stoker will do you fine. A good reel with 30 lb test is good.

Yes 20 lb line will do for 30lb fish.....but 20lb line, a 46lb Blue Fin, a drifting boat..will break a Penn 145 reel and make landing your fish a real battle.

Get a good reel! Open face, 250 yrds of 30lb line.... Not Big ...... Just good and strong...a penn 140 with Tibron gears and frame is a good choice, or something made for medium offshore fishing.

Rbutler
06-28-2010, 12:02 AM
No worries at all sevensix2x51, i asked for peoples advice ive been out twice so i pretty much have no idea what to look for in rods/reels for salt.

so looking at the reels i saw some good reviews about the penn senator, http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_21821____SearchResults#prodDescription how would this fair? i am left handed so i would be grabbing the LH model, stats look like
Gear Ratio - 3.3 to 1 (not sure what ratio i should be looking for)
Line retrieve per rotation - 26'
reel weight 30oz
line Cap - 370yrds of 30#

also i noticed someone said braid is a bad idea on the charter boats, why is that out of curiosity?

hntnnut
06-28-2010, 12:41 AM
No worries at all sevensix2x51, i asked for peoples advice ive been out twice so i pretty much have no idea what to look for in rods/reels for salt.

so looking at the reels i saw some good reviews about the penn senator, http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_21821____SearchResults#prodDescription how would this fair? i am left handed so i would be grabbing the LH model, stats look like
Gear Ratio - 3.3 to 1 (not sure what ratio i should be looking for)
Line retrieve per rotation - 26'
reel weight 30oz
line Cap - 370yrds of 30#

also i noticed someone said braid is a bad idea on the charter boats, why is that out of curiosity?

Most people use mono(few exceptions like rock cod). When you get multiple hookups on a cattle boat lines will cross. when you have mono under tension and braid under tension braid will cut the the mono every time I would make for a unhappy fisherman when you cut his fish off with braid.

Richard

hntnnut
06-28-2010, 12:51 AM
I you go conventional look a the penn 500 series reels you can have one spool with 20# and another with 30# as its pretty easy to switch spools out. Spare parts and upgrades are plentiful and start up cost is inexpensive. Match it up with something in the 6.5'-7' range like this http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchResults?hvarSearchString=38-154-538-00++&searchOption=products&storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&CMID=TOP_SEARCH_GO&scSearched=true&x=15&y=6
using a 270 or 670 blank.

Richard

Hunt
06-28-2010, 3:56 AM
The best way to get a new pole is stop eating junk food, eat some high quality protein, salmon is best. Then stair climb until your legs really burn, do this daily. This will give you an amazing new pole.

sevensix2x51
06-28-2010, 5:47 AM
No worries at all sevensix2x51, i asked for peoples advice ive been out twice so i pretty much have no idea what to look for in rods/reels for salt.

so looking at the reels i saw some good reviews about the penn senator, http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_21821____SearchResults#prodDescription how would this fair? i am left handed so i would be grabbing the LH model, stats look like
Gear Ratio - 3.3 to 1 (not sure what ratio i should be looking for)
Line retrieve per rotation - 26'
reel weight 30oz
line Cap - 370yrds of 30#

also i noticed someone said braid is a bad idea on the charter boats, why is that out of curiosity?

the senator series are a bit big for casting, imho. i have 2 senators, and they are good reels, BUT they are strictly used on trolling rods. short, stout, with some roller eyes. great for tuna and dorado, not good for throwing greenbacks or iron on a cattleboat. fwiw, i have used the same rig for both yellowtail and catfish, with success. granted, i am a fourth generation yellowtail fishermen in san diego, and have had a lot of coaching since i could walk, but its really not too tough. i have never fished off a cattleboat, but i imagine you might want to horse them in a little, to avoid tangling folks up. a higher gear ratio would be a benefit, as in more line taken in to less turns of the crank. also, 30# is real heavy line, i think your gut was right the first time. get a rig that is built for 15-20#... good luck with the search!

Tunis
06-28-2010, 7:26 AM
Best bang for your buck would be a Shakespeare Ugly Stik Tiger or Custom! And the best part is that it will only set you back +/- $60! What reel would you be mating to the new rod? As mentioned above, I would go with a conventional set-up for bigger gamefish. Good luck with your search and let us know what you end up with...FISH ON!

toby
06-28-2010, 5:04 PM
If you want to stay wit a spinning outfit by all means do it I use a discontinued Penn
6500 and any of the newer Penns, Diawa, or Shimanos are plenty strong for fish up to and beyond 35# this is my favorite combo a with a Kencor 7' rod

Dirtbiker
06-29-2010, 12:59 PM
If you're serious about Yellowtail on a spinning you will need either a Shimano Baitrunner 4500-6500. If you have deep pockets you can buy a Shimano Stella, the finest spinning reel money can buy. ($300 and up) Other than those two most spinning reels don't have the drag capacity to fight hard charging top-water predators. (yellowtail, yellowfin, dorado)

There are some really good smaller salt water quality casting reels out there today. Daiwa Saltiga and some of the Avets can be had for $150-250 and will cast really well with minimal practice.

Trapper
06-29-2010, 1:09 PM
+1 for the Penn 500 and a Penn Californian 7" rod. This is the same set up many boats use as rental rods. It's very simple, easy to repair/replace parts and costs less than $200 new.

mif_slim
06-29-2010, 1:37 PM
I've gone thru the expensive fishing pole/reel stage from GL GL2, 3, IMX and all the popular gears... When used the walmart 12-20 dollar ones and realized their about the same as using the 300-500 dollar ones. The only diffrence was the balance which is important but for big ge fishing it doesn't matter much.
I say ugly stick or indestructible rods will work for what your looking for. And you'll save 150 for the trip itself. But whateer floats your boat! :)

scotthmt
06-29-2010, 2:35 PM
If you want to stay wit a spinning outfit by all means do it I use a discontinued Penn
6500 and any of the newer Penns, Diawa, or Shimanos are plenty strong for fish up to and beyond 35# this is my favorite combo a with a Kencor 7' rod



Damn, i clicked your link and i thought to myself, ive seen that reel in my garage, so i go get it, and i have a penn 650 ss and i didnt even know it, LOL is it worth anything? or a decent reel to use?

toby
06-29-2010, 5:00 PM
Damn, i clicked your link and i thought to myself, ive seen that reel in my garage, so i go get it, and i have a penn 650 ss and i didnt even know it, LOL is it worth anything? or a decent reel to use?

Well Idunno I've landed a few 15-20# Dorados, six Albies @ 22-31# and numerous yellow tail 15-20# and cant tell ya how many Barracuda? and I only run 20# test on it! yet I do own Avets,Daiwas,and other Penns I just like this one.

scotthmt
06-29-2010, 5:39 PM
sweet!! i was just excited that i found i had a good reel! and i didnt even know until i saw your post! Thanks man!


Also, do you think it would handle sturgies?

toby
06-29-2010, 5:51 PM
I've never fished for those but why not I here they fight like a catfish? but I don't really know?

Rbutler
06-30-2010, 3:12 PM
alright so i went with a shimano Speedmaster IV (http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/conventional/speedmaster_iv.html), they are nice on the budget, high speed, and from what i got and all around nice reel. The internals are a a hardended stainless steel and i found a walkthrough online that someone showed how to break down clean and grease the reel up. Figure i can practice in my backyard learning to thumb the spool since i know this one is going to be tough to cast. Thanks for all your input guys, one last q, since this reel isnt a level cast i know i have to guide the line, is this still the case when fighting a fish? and do i just use my thumb to do so?

thanks again

PS. i got some cajun red line, anyone tried this before?

sevensix2x51
06-30-2010, 4:13 PM
alright so i went with a shimano Speedmaster IV (http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/conventional/speedmaster_iv.html), they are nice on the budget, high speed, and from what i got and all around nice reel. The internals are a a hardended stainless steel and i found a walkthrough online that someone showed how to break down clean and grease the reel up. Figure i can practice in my backyard learning to thumb the spool since i know this one is going to be tough to cast. Thanks for all your input guys, one last q, since this reel isnt a level cast i know i have to guide the line, is this still the case when fighting a fish? and do i just use my thumb to do so?

thanks again

PS. i got some cajun red line, anyone tried this before?

thats exactly right. just stuff the butt of the rod into your hip, and guide the line with your non-cranking thumb from the top. :thumbsup:

as far as cajun red line, ive never used it. i am a big fan of p-line. i use HALO on my freshwater rigs, and the bulk stuff on my salties. but you will find the right line for you and your casting style. dont be afraid to strip that stuff off after a couple trips. also, if you notice youre starting to backlash a lot after a while of casting well, and you havent made any changes to your setup, then strip off the top layer of line and recycle it. the fresh line below will generally cast better.

Rbutler
06-30-2010, 5:04 PM
cool thanks for the info, just waiting for this reel to come in then get something setup for my next trip.

scotthmt
06-30-2010, 8:59 PM
make sure you read up on how to 'tune' your reel for the weight of your lure/weight for casting so it doesn't backlash

Rbutler
07-01-2010, 1:09 AM
make sure you read up on how to 'tune' your reel for the weight of your lure/weight for casting so it doesn't backlash

i read alot about the knob on the side you adjust and basically while youre new you can tighten it till the lure/bait slowly lowers. and to do this until i get more comfortable casting then slowly back the drag off. anything else i should note on that?

elevated
07-01-2010, 9:40 AM
your above question: that "little knob" on the side of your reel is the cast control. If your new to the reel, tie on a weight or lure and then reel it up to the top of the pole, then put it in free spool and the lure should drop all the way to the ground without the reel bird nesting. when I was learning I would tighten the knob pretty tight. to the point that the lure or whatever would drop pretty slowly.

anyway thats a decent reel. I had that reel on a american spirit rod, 12-40# test. It's really meant to fish 15-25. $87.99 not the best but it'll last you for a bunch of years. If your close to pasadena I would check out Johnny's Sport Shop on Lincoln Blvd. Bring your reel in tell um your budget etc. They have never steered me wrong in a number of years. Btw I fish braid on everything, remember: "no angles no tangles." If your line is running to the right or left follow it and politely ask people to go under or over them. Most people are very cool about it. Brain in my opinion is way better because it has no memory, so you you swing on that WSB or yellow the hook drives straight through his mouth and he def FEELS THE STEEL hahah!

Johnny's:
1402 Lincoln Avenue
Pasadena, CA 91103-2098
(626) 797-8839