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View Full Version : Went to Jackson Arms yesterday....


NorCal_
06-27-2010, 6:53 AM
While I was at the indoor range, I was really focusing on my shot placement and stance. I brought two handguns with me, a sig mosquito and my MP .45. With the sig i was having no issues at all placing my shots where i wanted them. Then i started to shoot the .45 and I couldn't tell if it was me (most likely the case) or possibly my sights on the gun. Every shot I took at centermass of the target, ended up landing way low but still lined up where i was shooting. Then I noticed when I started shooting for the head on the target I was closer to the location I was aiming for but still a little low. Anyone have an idea what this could be caused from? Someone i spoke to yesterday suggested having the front sight lowered or shaved down a little bit.

1 SIG fan
06-27-2010, 7:03 AM
Load some snap caps in your mags. Your flinching and dropping the muzzle in anticipation of the .45 round

JJ1911
06-27-2010, 7:09 AM
My guess is also flinching. The sights should not be off by that much. Have someone else shoot it and see how they do.

jdg30
06-27-2010, 7:15 AM
Don't shave down your sights, you just need to work on grip and trigger control. Dry fire practice and throwing in a snap cap while you are shooting with normal rounds at the range will show you if you are flinching when you fire the gun.

lazs
06-27-2010, 7:19 AM
How many rounds did you fire?

Marlin Hunter
06-27-2010, 7:34 AM
Lighting, sun or indoor light bulbs, can play tricks on you when using iron sights. If your sights don't have sharp edges you can shot higher, lower, more to the left, or more to the right. If your front sight had a rounded edge on the top, you would shoot high. If you rear sight had a rounded edge on the top, you would shoot lower.

The original AR15/M16 had a round front post. When the sun light would hit it from the right rear, the shooter would shoot to the right. When the sun was on the left rear, the shooter would shoot to the left. The front sight was changed on the A2 models to a square post to alleviate the problem.

What does your rear sight look like? I don't know what an MP 45 is. Is the a S&W M&P pistol???

mikengracie
06-27-2010, 7:50 AM
I have read probably hundreds of posts and have seen it first hand on the range. The gun sights are always the start of blame for misguided hits on target. When in reality very few are the guns problem from bad sights to bad barrels or alignment of a revolver. I thought the same years ago. Had another shooter run a magazine through my 9mm that I shot low left and he hit center mass each shot. Just a few months ago a gentleman had a Colt .45 Gold Cup Trophy he had just purchased used. Couldn't get it to center up. Had me shoot it and three shots near perfect @ 7 yds. There are charts online that show different points of impact and reason why the groups are in that particular area. have an experienced shooter fire the gun and that usually tells the story.

map
06-27-2010, 7:51 AM
I used to do that. Watch for flinching. It was my problem.

NorCal_
06-27-2010, 7:53 AM
You guys are probably right about the flinching, as much as i hate to say it. I did find myself anticipating muzzle rise when the mag was empty and would fire thinking there was still a round left.

NorCal_
06-27-2010, 7:55 AM
What's the best way to deal with this issue?

liketoshoot
06-27-2010, 7:58 AM
What's the best way to deal with this issue?

snap caps mixed in to the mag, and practice, a lot of it!!!

j1133s
06-28-2010, 1:32 AM
While I was at the indoor range, I was really focusing on my shot placement and stance. I brought two handguns with me, a sig mosquito and my MP .45. With the sig i was having no issues at all placing my shots where i wanted them. Then i started to shoot the .45 and I couldn't tell if it was me (most likely the case) or possibly my sights on the gun. Every shot I took at centermass of the target, ended up landing way low but still lined up where i was shooting. Then I noticed when I started shooting for the head on the target I was closer to the location I was aiming for but still a little low. Anyone have an idea what this could be caused from? Someone i spoke to yesterday suggested having the front sight lowered or shaved down a little bit.

Try shooting from a rest, this will eliminate a lot of shooter issues. Benchresting a pistol isn't very easy, but you should try to rest it such that when you take your hands off the pistol is still on target, then as lightly as possible, with minimal contact pull the trigger.

The above will tell you if your sights are off. Also, most pistol sights are zero'ed at 50yards, so you should take that into consideration.

If you are just going to target shooting w/ this pistol, you might look into installing an adjustable rear sight, this way, you can have flexibility in picking our aiming points.

1 SIG fan
06-28-2010, 8:28 AM
the rest is a good idea. That'll help prove my point. The sights are the same # as all Sig 220 and can't be zero'd vertically, only horizontally and the OP isn't having lateral issues, only verticl. it's the NASTY break on that damn trigger....

j1133s
06-28-2010, 12:34 PM
What's the best way to deal with this issue?

Oh, didn't see this post from you. If it is flinch, then try to tell yourself that you want to see the muzzle blast, once you see it, it'll fix a lot of issues. It is easy to see in Jackson Arms (indoor rnage).

Also, I plan to visit Jackson Arms sometimes, if you go w/ me I'll provide you some help in this regard. Currently, I go to Reed's a lot, and plan go there today at 5:30P and shoot for 1/2 hr.

Snapping Twig
06-28-2010, 2:18 PM
Between the poor lighting there and my old eyes, I need to wear a LED light on my forehead to see my sights. Could be that or your trigger control or the rear sight is too low, or the ammo is faster than the sights are regulated for - hard to say.

Monticore
06-29-2010, 2:26 PM
I'm no expert (yet) but I also vote for flinching.
I did it just last Thursday, as a matter of fact.

I put a fresh target up and ran the hanger down to 25 feet.
I super concentrated on every aspect I could to settle and fire as precisely as I could.
Halfway through my 10 rounds I was pissed that I had a shot outside the black area.
A couple shots later I had another down there.
I KNEW that I was trying real hard to get the trigger pull and sight alignment right.
Damn these reloads I bought!!
I accidentally tried to shoot an 11th shot and saw that I was yanking down the front of my M&P 40 anticipating the recoil.
I ended up with 6 shots where I wanted them and 4 shots yanked about 4 inches low.

Ironically I was there teaching my younger brother how to shoot.
It was a great "what not to do" example.

NorCal_
07-03-2010, 6:26 AM
I'm gonna go to Jackson today and try all the suggestions you folks have given me to work with. Hopefully I'll be making an improvement from my last outing. I'm pretty sure it will. My groupings were good just not where i wanted them. Any suggestions on what distances I should start out at while at he range?

Inkman
07-03-2010, 7:17 AM
Dry firing at home helps. Snap-Caps randomly mixed into mags will show you how bad you're flinching at the range. Let that recoil be a surprise!!!!

Start at 7 yds and get your zero down good, then go out to 10 yds until you can keep the same zero. After that go out to 12 until you can keep the same zero etc. You'll see how much more you need to pay attention at further distances.

Like somebody else said, most people blame the sights but it's almost always 100% the shooter.

Al