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cpl_dan
06-26-2010, 8:46 PM
if you cant get a ccw then just "open carry" some counties rarely want to give any permits out.

kel-tec-innovations
06-26-2010, 9:00 PM
Where are you located? Its better to practice Open carry in a group and have papers with the law codes showing officers its legal to carry. Its also nice to go as a group as you don't look like an outcast and have someone with similar interest to chat with while you practice open carry.

cpl_dan
06-26-2010, 9:02 PM
livin in orange co..

cpl_dan
06-26-2010, 9:09 PM
i really do not want to put myself in a position where i get surrounded by cops because someone got scared and called the police. but in todays political landscape it is important that your rights are not trampled on so i support the open carry law even if you cant get a ccw permit "open carrying" lets me practice my right to bear arms.

IrishPirate
06-26-2010, 9:26 PM
better to hold off and not OC right now. There are several lawsuits in the works to win back our gun rights, one of which (Sykes v McGuinness I believe) will get rid of the "good cause" requirement and make all counties "shall issue" for CCW. It probably wont be too long after McDonald gets handed down (monday!!!!) that these lawsuits fall into place. also, you might be legally able to OC right now, but that doesn't mean that the Det. Tuason's out there aren't going to make your life hell. Honestly, if you've gotten on just fine without OC so far, what's a little longer? If the mall ninja in you can't wait, then do it in groups for the safety of numbers, but remember that there are still alot of restrictions on OC, and a lot of cops that don't support your right.....

kel-tec-innovations
06-26-2010, 9:29 PM
i really do not want to put myself in a position where i get surrounded by cops because someone got scared and called the police. but in todays political landscape it is important that your rights are not trampled on so i support the open carry law even if you cant get a ccw permit "open carrying" lets me practice my right to bear arms.

Open carry, expect people to call 911 man with gun. Expect cops to come up and tell you to put your hands on your head and take your weapon from you and inspect it. If I live near you I would practice open carry with you and bring my knowledge with me to fend off occasional nasty cops that is against you having a right to carry a gun.

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kel-tec-innovations
06-26-2010, 9:41 PM
Is anyone practicing open carry in RIVERSIDE or SAN BERNARDINO area?

NightOwl
06-26-2010, 9:46 PM
I open carried in another state for a few years. It was good. I don't, and wouldn't, here in CA, at least until the gun free school zone bs gets struck down again by a court. It's just too hazardous, outside of specific pre-planned outings, where you're going to put your firearm back into a locked case for transport back home.

As I see it, you're putting yourself MORE at risk by OC in CA, than not carrying at all. Only difference is if you get jacked by the police or by a thug.

rromeo
06-26-2010, 9:52 PM
I open carried plenty as a Marine. I don't need any more practice

ripcurlksm
06-26-2010, 10:14 PM
There is a strong consensus from the lawyers here to NOT OPEN CARRY, but for the time being! Big things are in the works, hold off on open carry!

thayne
06-26-2010, 10:22 PM
I see OC in CA as a form of protest. Its not a good idea from a self protection point and best done in groups. But, like others have said just hold off while the pending suits are ongoing.

KylaGWolf
06-26-2010, 10:37 PM
if you cant get a ccw then just "open carry" some counties rarely want to give any permits out.

I have in the past practiced open carry. Now before anyone goes in to the whole it is not a wise idea right now (technically that is right) since we do not have any second amendment rights in the state of California, although that could change as of Monday but even so its not a cure all woohoo everything is null and void.

Some points to consider and not even close to all of them to consider:

1. Do you have the money to fight for your freedom if something goes horridly wrong. (ask Theseus that one) could cost you up to 50k and if you don't win you could lose your gun rights for a temporary time period or forever.

2. Do you know the number of a good gun law attorney. There are a few that are on this board. Mr. Davis being one of them. If you do then make sure that someone besides you knows how to contact them should something go wrong and you end up in the metal bar hilton.

3. Do you know where EVERY SINGLE private and public K-12 school is in the area you plan to open carry. If not do not even consider open carrying in that area. Oh and don't just rely on mapquest to give you this information since there are schools that do NOT show up on the map.

4. If you are going to a public place such as a shopping center do you know the rules for that business when it comes to carrying a firearm. Yes they hae the right to tell you that they do not want you there with a gun and ask you to leave.

5. Do you know how you can legally carry your gun and ammo? Do you have a good understanding of the California Penal Code? Can you provide this information to those that may be interested or ask you questions. Yes there are a few good fliers out there but that being said it is not a perfect solution.

6. Do you have access to a digital voice recorder and digital camera/video camera? Do these have fresh batteries and empty memory devices. Do you have someone that can go with you and hold said devices that you know will NOT turn them off if you come in contact with an LEO?

7. Can you keep your cool when contacted by LEO's. Can you keep your cool even if your fourth amendment rights are violated? Do you have the courage to deal with the department in question to file a complaint?

If you answered no to any of these questions then don't open carry.

cmth
06-27-2010, 12:32 AM
If you must open carry, you do so at your own peril. I will not tell you never to do it, but there are so many legal pitfalls that must be navigated in this state in order to do so without placing yourself in serious jeopardy that I cannot recommend it.

Unless you know, with absolute certainty, that you will not be carrying in an area where carry is disallowed, or that you are doing so in a lawful manner, you probably should not do it. Even then, you may still find yourself in a bad legal situation. I have done it many times, and still do on occasion, but it is impractical for any purposes of self-defense, and may in fact be detrimental to that effort.

I am an ardent proponent and advocate for open carry, but we do not have open carry rights in this state. You can't carry a loaded gun anywhere you please, and certainly not where it is most useful. In the future we may have that right returned to us, but it hasn't happened yet.

obeygiant
06-27-2010, 1:56 AM
i really do not want to put myself in a position where i get surrounded by cops because someone got scared and called the police. but in todays political landscape it is important that your rights are not trampled on so i support the open carry law even if you cant get a ccw permit "open carrying" lets me practice my right to bear arms.

The "open carry law"? would you be referring to AB1934? If so, you may want to re-read that law.



PURPOSE (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/09-10/bill/asm/ab_1901-1950/ab_1934_cfa_20100621_110549_sen_comm.html)

The purpose of this bill is to prohibit the open carrying of
unloaded handguns in public, except as specified.

Legasat
06-27-2010, 10:02 AM
I have in the past practiced open carry. Now before anyone goes in to the whole it is not a wise idea right now (technically that is right) since we do not have any second amendment rights in the state of California, although that could change as of Monday but even so its not a cure all woohoo everything is null and void.

Some points to consider and not even close to all of them to consider:

1. Do you have the money to fight for your freedom if something goes horridly wrong. (ask Theseus that one) could cost you up to 50k and if you don't win you could lose your gun rights for a temporary time period or forever.

2. Do you know the number of a good gun law attorney. There are a few that are on this board. Mr. Davis being one of them. If you do then make sure that someone besides you knows how to contact them should something go wrong and you end up in the metal bar hilton.

3. Do you know where EVERY SINGLE private and public K-12 school is in the area you plan to open carry. If not do not even consider open carrying in that area. Oh and don't just rely on mapquest to give you this information since there are schools that do NOT show up on the map.

4. If you are going to a public place such as a shopping center do you know the rules for that business when it comes to carrying a firearm. Yes they hae the right to tell you that they do not want you there with a gun and ask you to leave.

5. Do you know how you can legally carry your gun and ammo? Do you have a good understanding of the California Penal Code? Can you provide this information to those that may be interested or ask you questions. Yes there are a few good fliers out there but that being said it is not a perfect solution.

6. Do you have access to a digital voice recorder and digital camera/video camera? Do these have fresh batteries and empty memory devices. Do you have someone that can go with you and hold said devices that you know will NOT turn them off if you come in contact with an LEO?

7. Can you keep your cool when contacted by LEO's. Can you keep your cool even if your fourth amendment rights are violated? Do you have the courage to deal with the department in question to file a complaint?

If you answered no to any of these questions then don't open carry.

This sounds like a very well thought out guide to the practical side of OC, whether or not you support it or practice it!

1JimMarch
06-27-2010, 2:39 PM
I open carry loaded, but then again I'm in southern Arizona...

Ishooter
06-27-2010, 3:21 PM
Open carry, expect people to call 911 man with gun. Expect cops to come up and tell you to put your hands on your head and take your weapon from you and inspect it. If I live near you I would practice open carry with you and bring my knowledge with me to fend off occasional nasty cops that is against you having a right to carry a gun.

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Very cool! It's time to open the hidden truth about the constitutional right of gun owners in the public. Many people aren't aware of the gun laws nor having having any knowledge that the 2nd Amendment in Cali (or in the U.S.) does exist. I've had more than enough people asking me "Do you need a license to buy this gun or that gun?".

dantodd
06-27-2010, 3:37 PM
Many people aren't aware of the gun laws nor having having any knowledge that the 2nd Amendment in Cali (or in the U.S.) does exist.

I am amazed that there are actually people on CalGuns that still think there is a 2A in California. The Second Amendment DOES NOT exist in California. This is not hyperbole, it literally doesn't apply to the state of California.

Now, in 24 hours it WILL apply in California and over the next few years lots of things will change because of that.

Army
06-27-2010, 5:14 PM
IBTL!!

I UOC frequently here, and have never had an encounter with the local LEO's. I have mapped my town carefully, and never fall into a GFSZ when I carry.

Can't say that about San Diego and San Pedro though...

Havoc70
06-27-2010, 6:37 PM
http://www.SouthBayOpenCarry.org might be in your area.

Crom
06-27-2010, 6:42 PM
As said before... It is strongly recommended not to OC at this time. If you want to carry please look into
Locked Unloaded Concealed Carry (http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/RefLegalCaLUCC)

Ishooter
07-03-2010, 5:16 PM
I am amazed that there are actually people on CalGuns that still think there is a 2A in California. The Second Amendment DOES NOT exist in California. This is not hyperbole, it literally doesn't apply to the state of California.

Now, in 24 hours it WILL apply in California and over the next few years lots of things will change because of that.
I'd be very interested to hear about your knowledge that 2A doesn't exist in Cali. Also, what would you mean by "Now, in 24 hours it WILL apply in California and over the next few years lots of things will change because of that"?

dantodd
07-03-2010, 6:14 PM
I'd be very interested to hear about your knowledge that 2A doesn't exist in Cali. Also, what would you mean by "Now, in 24 hours it WILL apply in California and over the next few years lots of things will change because of that"?

The second amendment was the last amendment incorporated against the states.

When the bill of rights was written it was intended to only limit the actions of the federal government. There was no plan for it to limit state/municipal governments. The founders had felt that the contract (constitution) between the people and their states would protect them from abuses the same way the U.S. Constitution protected them from federal abuses.

After the Civil War many southern states were denying their citizens (primarily freedmen) of the rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights. Well, as you should know, the Civil War was the first big "States Rights" fight and it was a doozie. The Southern States wanted to exercise their rights to leave the union and Lincoln decided that the Federal Government was superior to the states rather than a voluntary coalition as it was in the 18th century.

This meant that, for the first time, ones rights as a U.S. Citizen could not be violated by the State. It essentially killed the concept of "State Citizenship" in favor of "National Citizenship." Since this was not the way the founders had initially planned for the government to be run they had to amend the constitution to indicate this sea change in our nation. That amendment was the 14th Amendment. There are 3 operable clauses in the 14th amendment that are of interest to us (we'll leave the citizenship clause for a later discussion.) The Privileges or Immunities clause, the Due Process clause and the Equal Protection clause. There is a full and rich history of these different clauses and of particular note is the Slaughter-Houses case which essentially gutted the PorI (privileges or immunities) clause.

Anyway, the courts decided that even this didn't hold the states to the same standards as the federal government so lawyers had to battle for each of the rights enshrined in the Bill of Rights to be individually applied against the states, this is called "incorporation." Almost all of the Bill of Rights have been incorporated in part or in whole for many years. But, the second was never incorporated. This is largely because there were certain people who thought that the right enshrined in the second amendment was a collective instead of an individual right. If it were a collective right there would be little reason for a lawsuit to make the right incorporated. The Supreme Court ruled in Heller v. D. C. that the Second Amendment was, in fact, an individual right. Once this happened it meant that there was a newly defined individual right in the Bill of Rights that the states did not have to respect. Chicago was one of the locales that clearly violated this right so they were sued in McDonald v. Chicago. This case was decided about 24 hours after I made my post. (actually 16 hours, but who's counting) The decision in McDonald essentially said that, just like the federal government, the states had to respect the rights of their residents as they pertain to the Second Amendment.

So, at the time I wrote that post the state was not proscribed from violating your Second Amendment rights as defined in Heller v. D. C. but now they are!!!! And if you read through the threads since Monday you will see that a lot of laws will be challenged on similar grounds. There is almost zero Second Amendment jurisprudence so it is a ripe area of litigation for good civil rights attorneys.

calnurse
07-03-2010, 6:26 PM
I would like to but too much hassle for me! My wife will get freaked out and don't want to get hassled by the police while trying to enjoy my free time. In addition, my car is subject to search when I enter my work area!!!

Meplat
07-03-2010, 9:08 PM
I open carry loaded all the time. I did so today. Up near Globe Rock in the Sierra Nat. Forrest. We had a family outing and burned through over 2,000 RNDs of various calibers. Mostly 5.56 and 7.62 X 39.

If you must open carry do it anywhere you can legally discharge a firearm, do it loaded, and take no risk of LE drama.

Otherwise, wait for the right people to put up the signal in the old north church, one if by OC two if by CC.:43:

NightOwl
07-03-2010, 9:26 PM
I miss OC. Sincerely hoping this state gets it's act together soon.

ZenMasta
07-03-2010, 11:48 PM
Am I the only one that noticed the officer inserted the magazine into the gun and put it back in his holster? I laughed when I saw them pan to the officer with the ar 15.

[edit] didn't realize he had an empty mag in the first place. seems like you'd want to carry without a mag already inserted to simplify things.

aaronraby1
07-04-2010, 12:06 AM
i was going to do the hollywood sign hike and so i called the local pd and asked what the saftey was on that trail/area. she said incidents happen often. i asked.. can i carry my pistol on my waist in open view, she said not at all. but she said i could carry an unloaded shotgun. ha. so... apparently incidents (whatever they may be) happen often and i cant bring along my pistol, so i wont go hiking in southern cali. ill just wait until i go up north again. ha.

CitaDeL
07-04-2010, 11:31 AM
i was going to do the hollywood sign hike and so i called the local pd and asked what the saftey was on that trail/area. she said incidents happen often. i asked.. can i carry my pistol on my waist in open view, she said not at all. but she said i could carry an unloaded shotgun. ha. so... apparently incidents (whatever they may be) happen often and i cant bring along my pistol, so i wont go hiking in southern cali. ill just wait until i go up north again. ha.

While the police are entrusted to administer the laws on the books, they arent always the best authority on what it says. Griffith Park is not a State Park, but there may be some local ordinance I am not aware of. I would think if it were permitted to carry a shotgun or other long gun, a handgun would be legal as well. Check with with the LA county clerks office and review the ordinances of consult an attorney.

winnre
07-04-2010, 11:37 AM
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I have been to countries where the gun owners is left alone by cops and the press gets hauled away.

Roadrunner
07-04-2010, 11:56 AM
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When I listened to the fool from Australia, the first thing I thought "And that's why people in Australia and the UK have been rendered defenseless...bloody idiot!"

Capt. Speirs
07-04-2010, 1:15 PM
Quit UOC, you guys feed the antis more ammo that way, just let it go and concentrate on shall issue CCW.

CitaDeL
07-04-2010, 1:42 PM
Quit UOC, you guys feed the antis more ammo that way, just let it go and concentrate on shall issue CCW.

What do you mean "just let it go"?

I am a firm believer that Zumboism is rampant among the ranks of the second amendment brotherhood. And it is just this sort of stand that is erasing what is left of "shall not be infringed".

Faux-gunners have rolled over compromising for the anti-gunners trading rights for government issued privileges, and inherent liberty for institutional slavery.

I think if you want to choose for others what method of 'keep and bear' is acceptable, you should stop what you are doing right now and make your next charitable donation to The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, LCAV, and The Joyce Foundation, because what you are doing is actually more harmful than what those anti-gun groups have the ability to do already.

NightOwl
07-04-2010, 2:38 PM
Quit UOC, you guys feed the antis more ammo that way, just let it go and concentrate on shall issue CCW.

You guys just feed the antis more ammo with all this talk of CCW, just let it go an concentrate on OC.

On a more serious note, some people prefer OC for a variety of reasons. Can't we all just be in the same boat and call it "gun rights" rather than splinter off into "my brand of gun rights is better than yours"? I prefer to OC, you prefer CCW, but there's common ground that we both believe in carry.

Milsurps
07-04-2010, 2:52 PM
You guys just feed the antis more ammo with all this talk of CCW, just let it go an concentrate on OC.


And coffee and OC has worked out soooo well ?... AB 1934, is just around the corner now ! :( Thanks...:confused:

NightOwl
07-04-2010, 3:05 PM
/facepalm

problemchild
07-04-2010, 3:12 PM
I would also add to contact the police in the city you plan to OC in and give them your name and where you will OC so they know you are there. I have done this training my dog in fields with a starter pistol. Saved me a big headache. Maybe even walk in and talk to the desk Sergent.



I have in the past practiced open carry. Now before anyone goes in to the whole it is not a wise idea right now (technically that is right) since we do not have any second amendment rights in the state of California, although that could change as of Monday but even so its not a cure all woohoo everything is null and void.

Some points to consider and not even close to all of them to consider:

1. Do you have the money to fight for your freedom if something goes horridly wrong. (ask Theseus that one) could cost you up to 50k and if you don't win you could lose your gun rights for a temporary time period or forever.

2. Do you know the number of a good gun law attorney. There are a few that are on this board. Mr. Davis being one of them. If you do then make sure that someone besides you knows how to contact them should something go wrong and you end up in the metal bar hilton.

3. Do you know where EVERY SINGLE private and public K-12 school is in the area you plan to open carry. If not do not even consider open carrying in that area. Oh and don't just rely on mapquest to give you this information since there are schools that do NOT show up on the map.

4. If you are going to a public place such as a shopping center do you know the rules for that business when it comes to carrying a firearm. Yes they hae the right to tell you that they do not want you there with a gun and ask you to leave.

5. Do you know how you can legally carry your gun and ammo? Do you have a good understanding of the California Penal Code? Can you provide this information to those that may be interested or ask you questions. Yes there are a few good fliers out there but that being said it is not a perfect solution.

6. Do you have access to a digital voice recorder and digital camera/video camera? Do these have fresh batteries and empty memory devices. Do you have someone that can go with you and hold said devices that you know will NOT turn them off if you come in contact with an LEO?

7. Can you keep your cool when contacted by LEO's. Can you keep your cool even if your fourth amendment rights are violated? Do you have the courage to deal with the department in question to file a complaint?

If you answered no to any of these questions then don't open carry.

Milsurps
07-04-2010, 3:13 PM
/facepalm
Enjoy the Coffee, without OC... :rofl:

winnre
07-04-2010, 3:22 PM
What do you mean "just let it go"?


I think he means let's lose the battle in order to win the war.

pullnshoot25
07-04-2010, 4:12 PM
What a bunch of Monday-morning armchair quarterbacks...

I'm shaking my head in disgust. So much so that I'm thinking of having my cervical vertebrae retrofitted with ball bearings.

We had yet another eventless day of standing up for YOUR rights.

For all those interested, PM me and I will chat with you personally, without all the Saldana-esque hysterics.

N6ATF
07-04-2010, 5:11 PM
And it's not even Monday morning yet!

winnre
07-04-2010, 5:23 PM
What a bunch of Monday-morning armchair quarterbacks...

I'm shaking my head in disgust. So much so that I'm thinking of having my cervical vertebrae retrofitted with ball bearings.

We had yet another eventless day of standing up for YOUR rights.

For all those interested, PM me and I will chat with you personally, without all the Saldana-esque hysterics.

Your PM to me said read the blog. Link?

Glock22Fan
07-04-2010, 5:25 PM
The one good thing that UOC has done is to trigger an anti-carry law that will (if passed) make it impossible for anyone to carry unless they are lucky enough to score a CCW (which, for many of us, is next to impossible).

Thus, we will now be totally barred from exrecising our 2nd amendment rights outside the home. This will be challenged under McDonald, which definitely made it plain (to me at least) that, although McDonald was specifically about the home, the RKBA also applied outside the home.

Therefore we are likely to find a judge deciding upon what sort of carry we should have to satisfy the 2nd. In view of the number of scaredy sheep around, my guess is for Concealed Carry and a striking down of the need for a Good Cause other than Self Protection (i.e. Shall Issue). That is, after all, what the current cases in the pipeline are trying to achieve.

Furthermore, whether we have some hard core OC'ers or not, my gut feeling is that most CalGunners would far prefer CCW to OC. I know I would. Both if we could get them, maybe, but I think that would be a hard fight.

My bet is that OC will remain banned after Saldano's law passes and after the requisite court cases grant us something indistinguishable from Shall Issue.

N6ATF
07-04-2010, 5:52 PM
I can understand not minding having to CCW if you're in snow country, but SoCal? Come on, it's freaking (too) hot (for cover garments) here, most days.

Roadrunner
07-04-2010, 7:17 PM
And coffee and OC has worked out soooo well ?... AB 1934, is just around the corner now ! :( Thanks...:confused:

Need I remind you that the 2A IS a fundamental right to keep and bear arms. AB1934, as well as LOC and CCW will not stand even immediate scrutiny. The government has to show a compelling reason for these laws to exist. There's no way that UOC could come close to being constitutional.

Roadrunner
07-04-2010, 7:18 PM
I can understand not minding having to CCW if you're in snow country, but SoCal? Come on, it's freaking (too) hot (for cover garments) here, most days.

I have a little stainless .380 auto that's perfect for CCW.

pullnshoot25
07-04-2010, 9:10 PM
What a bunch of Monday-morning armchair quarterbacks...

I'm shaking my head in disgust. So much so that I'm thinking of having my cervical vertebr

Your PM to me said read the blog. Link?

It is in the sig line, like it has been for at least the last year.


Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

Glock22Fan
07-04-2010, 9:12 PM
I can understand not minding having to CCW if you're in snow country, but SoCal? Come on, it's freaking (too) hot (for cover garments) here, most days.


As long as I'm not topless, I have no problems concealing a G22 under a shirt.

N6ATF
07-04-2010, 9:20 PM
As long as I'm not topless, I have no problems concealing a G22 under a shirt.

Yeah, I like to flash my boobs, that's the problem.



But seriously, my usual shirt size is medium, to conceal in the house I need a large, to conceal outside (where I have to worry about wind flapping my shirt up), I'd probably need an XL-long or something that would stay down.

winnre
07-04-2010, 10:14 PM
It is in the sig line, like it has been for at least the last year.


Thanks for the link. I listened to the recording with the police officer. Does telling the officer that you plan to sue him for violating your rights change his attitude at all? I had the feeling you had some points of order you wanted to say to the officer, even after he said that's alright you still wanted to talk to him. Does this not incite the officer? I am at a loss to understand the intent of telling him of your intent to sue. I doubt it will make him cease his activities in regards to contacting you, and if I was going to sue a person I'd not tell them ahead of time because now they can start preparing a defense.

Maybe I have a lot to learn. I'd appreciate understanding how these activities furthered your position. Please share.

elsensei
07-05-2010, 2:18 AM
I listened to the recording with the police officer. Does telling the officer that you plan to sue him for violating your rights change his attitude at all?

Yes and no. He was as big a tyrant after as before. But maybe in the process he learned about something extremely relevant (mcdonald) that his handlers didn't think fitted in their "need to know" method of training.

I had the feeling you had some points of order you wanted to say to the officer, even after he said that's alright you still wanted to talk to him.


Yeah. He's the public servant, I am the boss, employer, sovereign. When the servant accosts the boss, the servant is going to get a talking-to. Mind you, I didn't approach him, HE approached US. So no, I didn't want to talk to him. I just wanted to be left alone. He took it upon himself to NOT know the law and spread FUD, even as he was 12031ing one of our guys.

BTW i thought it was hilarious and tragic that a guy in the gun-carrying business didn't have a clue about Mcdonald.

Does this not incite the officer?

Incite the officer? In what way? Are you afraid he might throw a tantrum? Is he a volatile barrel of nitroglycerine? If so, what business does he have being a cop? Let's say he was "incited". Does that mean he shoots me for talking? Does he club me over the head in broad daylight in front of 100 other people? Hahahaaaa.

The biggest reason that everyone tiptoes around cops and willfully surrenders their rights is BECAUSE everyone is used to tiptoeing around cops and willfully surrendering their rights. Not me. You ought to try NOT kissing *** once or twice. You might be surprised at the results.

Mind you, I am not insulting or demeaning but i sure as hell don't roll over for some clown with a badge and a napoleon complex.

I am at a loss to understand the intent of telling him of your intent to sue. I doubt it will make him cease his activities in regards to contacting you, and if I was going to sue a person I'd not tell them ahead of time because now they can start preparing a defense.

I'm not interested in suing. I'm interested in being left alone. Tyrants like that dude refuse to admit that they have NEVER EVER EVER encountered a criminal open carrying. But that is the truth. But to admit that would mean skipping the 12031 check. It's all a big power trip for some cops. So I'll one-up the power and maybe make some of the less dense tyrants think,"Well, those open carry guys know the law so how about I just leave them alone and save myself any potential legal hassles."

Then everyone is happy. There you have it.

AIMSMALL
07-05-2010, 4:18 AM
I rather enjoyed hearing your encounter with the LEO's, Good job! :thumbsup:
I also watched the AB1934 debate video and listened to that audio of the LEO encounter, you did good to stand your ground but still follow the law and I think your self critique was on point too.

It always amazes me to listen to the anti 2a's, some of the crap they say is just rediculos. Karen Arntzen said, "by bringing your gun to the park where our children are playing you're extending that risk out to society", to me this sounds like a person that just expects a LEO to be there for them exactly when they need one or just doesn't think anything bad could ever happen to them. I think if these types were ever put into a real, life threating situation they would change thier tune. Who's to say my kids aren't safer because i brought my gun to the park where they play?

javalos
07-05-2010, 4:27 AM
Open carry, expect people to call 911 man with gun. Expect cops to come up and tell you to put your hands on your head and take your weapon from you and inspect it. If I live near you I would practice open carry with you and bring my knowledge with me to fend off occasional nasty cops that is against you having a right to carry a gun.

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In early America, to prove your citizenship, you produced a firearm that you carried because only free men were allowed to be armed.

LAK Supply
07-05-2010, 6:27 PM
Why yes... OC'd today in the grocery store as a matter of fact.

Crom
07-05-2010, 9:45 PM
I OC'd for the last two days when I left from San Diego to the Mojave Desert and back again for my Independence day Mojave National Preserve tour!

Lead-Thrower
07-05-2010, 9:50 PM
Sorry for the thread hijack, but does anyone here LUCC? I am curious about this, even though it doesnt seem very practical...

dantodd
07-05-2010, 9:53 PM
Sorry for the thread hijack, but does anyone here LUCC? I am curious about this, even though it doesnt seem very practical...

I think that a lot of the people who LUCC are reluctant to say so in a public forum for the same reason most of those with CCWs do not post the fact in a public forum.

Crom
07-05-2010, 9:55 PM
Sorry for the thread hijack, but does anyone here LUCC? I am curious about this, even though it doesnt seem very practical...

I have seen a few people mention that they do, but I can't recall who posted about it. I do remember this link though: http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/RefLegalCaLUCC

I would try LUCC but alas, my arms are full size! :D I need something light and small.

pullnshoot25
07-06-2010, 1:02 AM
Yes, I lucc as well. Check my blog, it us the third post down.

patriot_man
07-06-2010, 2:10 AM
Anyone long gun open carry?

AIMSMALL
07-06-2010, 2:11 AM
I would like to UOC but I never have except at a shooting event which doesn't really count. To be completely honest, it makes me nervous that there will be a problem with the police. I know it's our right to carry hence wanting to but I don't want to be detained and get screwed with. I would feel better about doing it in a group of experienced UOC'ers however some of the guys here have suggested not to at the moment and I would hate to screw things up for everyone else somehow.

NightOwl
07-06-2010, 2:43 AM
Aimsmall,

Next time you're on vacation in another state, say Idaho or Arizona to name a couple, try OC there (loaded). It's not only legal, the cops don't give you the stinkeye about it.

Don't forget, it's loaded OC is legal in most states, often without requiring a permit. CA is the only one with the absurd unloaded requirement.

kel-tec-innovations
07-06-2010, 2:48 AM
Long Gun Open carry would be interesting.

patriot_man
07-06-2010, 2:56 AM
Long Gun Open carry would be interesting.

IIRC there was a picture of a member on calguns practicing LGUOC

AIMSMALL
07-06-2010, 3:09 AM
I do travel to AZ to visit my wifes side of the family pretty often but I could see them freaking out or thinking I'm crazy to carry a gun. They are not all like that but a few are. I think I will plan on giving that a try when I'm going somewhere with my friends there instead of her family. Thanks for the suggestion!

Capt. Speirs
07-06-2010, 9:02 AM
And coffee and OC has worked out soooo well ?... AB 1934, is just around the corner now ! :( Thanks...:confused:

Exactly!!!!

Capt. Speirs
07-06-2010, 9:11 AM
What do you mean "just let it go"?

I am a firm believer that Zumboism is rampant among the ranks of the second amendment brotherhood. And it is just this sort of stand that is erasing what is left of "shall not be infringed".

Faux-gunners have rolled over compromising for the anti-gunners trading rights for government issued privileges, and inherent liberty for institutional slavery.

I think if you want to choose for others what method of 'keep and bear' is acceptable, you should stop what you are doing right now and make your next charitable donation to The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, LCAV, and The Joyce Foundation, because what you are doing is actually more harmful than what those anti-gun groups have the ability to do already.

:wacko: No where did I say to give up the right of UOC! just quit wacking the hornets nest till we get rid of these Draconian gunlaws, like the one you guys started, AB1934!

N6ATF
07-06-2010, 9:23 AM
Law-abiding gun owners being alive and free is whacking the hornet's nest.

Until all law-abiding gun owners in the U.S. are disarmed and subsequently killed, imprisoned, or bankrupt, they won't stop.

elsensei
07-06-2010, 10:21 AM
:wacko: No where did I say to give up the right of UOC! just quit wacking the hornets nest till we get rid of these Draconian gunlaws, like the one you guys started, AB1934!

that's bull-puckey, boy. Hiding in the closet as a Kalifornia gun owner is what got us these draconian gun laws in the first place. Having a right that you don't exercise for fear it will be restricted is no right at all, and it makes me sick to my stomach to hear the same tired old debunked useless arguments time and time again.

Are we supposed to cower before tyrants? How about we hope REALLY REALLY hard that the same people who are passing those draconian laws don't pass any more? Saldana is pushing ahead with 1934 despite mcdonald. THEY DON'T GIVE A **** AND THEY ARE BULLIES. Mincing appeasement is no way to deal with a tyrant or a bully. It hasn't worked and it will never work. Honestly, I'd rather that they ban all gun, all knives, all swords, all weapons of any kind, everywhere for all time, as long as they agree to drop the "land of the free, home of the brave" BS at the same time. The lying makes me want to puke. If you're going to treat me like a subject, then just do it and say it's so. Don't go on and on about "our treasured liberties" while screwing me and every other freedom-minded person on this planet.

For ****'s sake, are we men or mice? are we citizens or subjects? are we human beings or lowing cattle? My God, how the founders are spinning in their graves.

I fully understand Patrick Henry's disgust.

winnre
07-06-2010, 10:30 AM
IIRC there was a picture of a member on calguns practicing LGUOC

Same rules -- ammo not in the firearm right?

patriot_man
07-06-2010, 2:55 PM
Same rules -- ammo not in the firearm right?

Yep. Same rules.

winnre
07-06-2010, 3:10 PM
Well a rifle cannot be in a holster, careful about brandishing!

cpl_dan
07-06-2010, 9:17 PM
did i start something ?:44:

dantodd
07-06-2010, 9:21 PM
did i start something ?:44:

No, you didn't. It's a festering wound that has been in the paw of CalGuns for sometime. You merely picked the scab.

Sinixstar
07-06-2010, 10:32 PM
that's bull-puckey, boy. Hiding in the closet as a Kalifornia gun owner is what got us these draconian gun laws in the first place. Having a right that you don't exercise for fear it will be restricted is no right at all, and it makes me sick to my stomach to hear the same tired old debunked useless arguments time and time again.

Are we supposed to cower before tyrants? How about we hope REALLY REALLY hard that the same people who are passing those draconian laws don't pass any more? Saldana is pushing ahead with 1934 despite mcdonald. THEY DON'T GIVE A **** AND THEY ARE BULLIES. Mincing appeasement is no way to deal with a tyrant or a bully. It hasn't worked and it will never work. Honestly, I'd rather that they ban all gun, all knives, all swords, all weapons of any kind, everywhere for all time, as long as they agree to drop the "land of the free, home of the brave" BS at the same time. The lying makes me want to puke. If you're going to treat me like a subject, then just do it and say it's so. Don't go on and on about "our treasured liberties" while screwing me and every other freedom-minded person on this planet.

For ****'s sake, are we men or mice? are we citizens or subjects? are we human beings or lowing cattle? My God, how the founders are spinning in their graves.

I fully understand Patrick Henry's disgust.


God I wish some day I know what it's like to be so important.

seriously - you've got to be kidding me.

pullnshoot25
07-06-2010, 10:39 PM
God I wish some day I know what it's like to be so important.

seriously - you've got to be kidding me.

I hope to never know how it is to be so mediocre and melancholy.

Not kidding either.

pullnshoot25
07-06-2010, 10:43 PM
No, you didn't. It's a festering wound that has been in the paw of CalGuns for sometime. You merely picked the scab.

Then every Calgunner equivalent of a kissing bug decided to **** into it.

Sinixstar
07-06-2010, 10:50 PM
I hope to never know how it is to be so mediocre and melancholy.

Not kidding either.


I'll take mediocre and melancholy over a meglomania induced manic fit of melodrama. More often than most I imagine.

:cool:

Seriously - I understand the sentiment - but the whole "standing up to tyrants - are we mice or men" bit is just over the top.

pullnshoot25
07-06-2010, 10:58 PM
I'll take mediocre and melancholy over a meglomania induced manic fit of melodrama. More often than most I imagine.

:cool:

Seriously - I understand the sentiment - but the whole "standing up to tyrants - are we mice or men" bit is just over the top.

Why? The Founding Fathers certainly didn't retract their balls when the time came. I am not calling for revolution (yet) but I think that standing up for your rights and not acting like a gutless pantywaist goes a long way.

Some may argue that is the reason why we are in the situation we are in today with this whole UOC thing, e.g. the Black Panthers. However, I think that resisting state-sanctioned/sponsored/endorsed murder is a noble pursuit and I will defend that to the bitter end.

Sinixstar
07-06-2010, 11:38 PM
Why? The Founding Fathers certainly didn't retract their balls when the time came. I am not calling for revolution (yet) but I think that standing up for your rights and not acting like a gutless pantywaist goes a long way.

Some may argue that is the reason why we are in the situation we are in today with this whole UOC thing, e.g. the Black Panthers. However, I think that resisting state-sanctioned/sponsored/endorsed murder is a noble pursuit and I will defend that to the bitter end.


You said it yourself.
When the time came....

pullnshoot25
07-06-2010, 11:54 PM
You said it yourself.
When the time came....

You show the true marks of a scholastically dishonest individual.

Capt. Speirs
07-07-2010, 12:00 AM
Let's see, if you don't have a leg to stand on, use slander to lower your opponent’s stance, because you have nothing else. Use your command of the English language to argue a point, not name calling.

pullnshoot25
07-07-2010, 12:05 AM
Let's see, if you don't have a leg to stand on, use slander to lower your opponent’s stance, because you have nothing else. Use your command of the English language to argue a point, not name calling.

Yeah, you certainly hit the nail on the head.

Liberty1
07-07-2010, 2:03 AM
You show the true marks of a scholastically dishonest individual.

N8,

Be cool man. Chill out. We're going to have to start calling you PmS :p if you keep up with the bitters and abstain from using honey on occasion when talking to the brother men. Let people have their opinions and counter with logic ONLY.

I don't necessarily respond to the person I'm 'engaged' with but rather for all the fence sitters reading the debate. When Alan is debating Helmke he is not trying to change his mind (that will not happen) nor is he upset when he fails. He it talking to an audience and delivers a message they can understand with their current level of knowledge of the issues (KISS at work). And when we lose our cool we lose our audience and that reflects strongly on our message.

CA_Libertarian
07-07-2010, 2:52 AM
...some people prefer OC for a variety of reasons. Can't we all just be in the same boat and call it "gun rights" rather than splinter off into "my brand of gun rights is better than yours"? I prefer to OC, you prefer CCW, but there's common ground that we both believe in carry.

+1

If you're able to pay a tax and take a test to exercise your fundamental human right, then by all means go do it and enjoy your duly earned right. Not everybody can afford the taxes and testing. Not everybody can read (my brother is a high school graduate, but never learned to read); do the illiterate not have the right to defend their own lives?

Further, some of us able to pay the tax and take the test are simply repulsed by the idea.

pullnshoot25
07-07-2010, 7:07 AM
N8,

Be cool man. Chill out. We're going to have to start calling you PmS :p if you keep up with the bitters and abstain from using honey on occasion when talking to the brother men. Let people have their opinions and counter with logic ONLY.

I don't necessarily respond to the person I'm 'engaged' with but rather for all the fence sitters reading the debate. When Alan is debating Helmke he is not trying to change his mind (that will not happen) nor is he upset when he fails. He it talking to an audience and delivers a message they can understand with their current level of knowledge of the issues (KISS at work). And when we lose our cool we lose our audience and that reflects strongly on our message.

BEST LAUGH OF THE MORNING!

Fair enough.

Sinixstar
07-07-2010, 8:10 AM
Look - I've been trying to be civil. I really have.

You demonstrate my problem with the UOC movement perfectly though.
Your way is the ONLY way.
Anybody who disagrees with you is somehow rolling over, or unamerican.
Anybody who questions you is somehow "scholastically dishonest".

Sorry - I have a different opinion, and a different approach. You don't have to like that, you don't have to support that. But you can shove your holier than thou attitude square up your ***.

I'm really tired of this self-aggrandizing BS. You're not the second coming of Jefferson. You're a guy with an opinion.

I don't mean to be totally out of line here - but i'm getting really tired of being talked down to as if somehow because I don't OC, i'm not 'fighting the good fight'. I don't know who in the hell made UOC'ers the standard bearers of the 2A movement, but I'm frankly a bit tired of getting beaten over the head with it.

pullnshoot25
07-07-2010, 9:10 AM
You can question me all you want, just don't be a Polly and at least be accurate. Two simple tasks that even a caveman could do.

I will detail more stuff later.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

Sinixstar
07-07-2010, 9:18 AM
You can question me all you want, just don't be a Polly and at least be accurate. Two simple tasks that even a caveman could do.

I will detail more stuff later.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

There ya go again....

None of us mere mortals were daring to question your absolute authority oh master UOC'er.

Seriously - get over yourself.

You want to UOC because you think that's the right thing to do - hey, more power to you. Get off the high horse about it though. It might be a heavy cross to carry - but it's one you picked up yourself.

Nobody's "questioning" you - nobody's challenging you on it.
Nobody needs you to explain a god damn thing.
Nobody needs any more detail.

But please do find a few more names you can call me. Really - every time you insult my intelligence, tell me i'm un-American, or call me some stupid name - it really endears me to you.

pullnshoot25
07-07-2010, 9:25 AM
You can question me all you want, just don't be a Polly and at least be accurate. Two simple tasks that even a caveman could do.

I will detail more s

There ya go again....

None of us mere mortals were daring to question your absolute authority oh master UOC'er.

Seriously - get over yourself.

You want to UOC because you think that's the right thing to do - hey, more power to you. Get off the high horse about it though. It might be a heavy cross to carry - but it's one you picked up yourself.

Nobody's "questioning" you - nobody's challenging you on it.
Nobody needs you to explain a god damn thing.
Nobody needs any more detail.

But please do find a few more names you can call me. Really - every time you insult my intelligence, tell me i'm un-American, or call me some stupid name - it really endears me to you.

So I shouldn't answer questions? Didn't you just whine about my apparently superior attitude just a few posts back?

My puns are obviously lost on you.

You aren't the mediator of information for everyone on this forum.

Lead-Thrower
07-07-2010, 9:28 AM
:hide:

pullnshoot25
07-07-2010, 9:30 AM
Also, if you want to bicker or whine, take it to PMs.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

Sinixstar
07-07-2010, 9:36 AM
Also, if you want to bicker or whine, take it to PMs.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

It's not bickering and whining.

If you all want to call people names and question their "dedication to the cause" (or whatever non-sense that is) in public because their views differ from yours - learn to take it when people call you out on it.

If your skin isn't thick enough to handle that - maybe you need to step back and think before you run your mouth.

pullnshoot25
07-07-2010, 9:43 AM
Also, if you want to bicker or whine, take it to PMs.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

It's not bickering and whining.

If you all want to call people names and question their "dedication to the cause" (or whatever non-sense that is) in public because their views differ from yours - learn to take it when people call you out on it.

If your skin isn't thick enough to handle that - maybe you need to step back and think before you run your mouth.

LOL.

N6ATF
07-07-2010, 10:30 AM
It's like the house of mirrors up in here!

J.D.Allen
07-07-2010, 11:27 AM
cant we all just get along?

Victory Bill
07-07-2010, 12:02 PM
The more SHEEPLE that see open carry, the more they will get used to it and the sooner it will become not so much a big deal. Open carrying can actually lead to eased restrictions on concealled carry. Police will get tired of responding to MWAG calls, especially when in numbers and there are no violations of the law happening. If the politicians realize we WILL exercise our right to bear arms in an "in your face" manner, to ease the Sheeples' anxiety, they'd probably rather us conceal and make it easier to do so.

Victory Bill
07-07-2010, 1:04 PM
Quit UOC, you guys feed the antis more ammo that way, just let it go and concentrate on shall issue CCW.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom--go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!"
~Samuel Adams~

pullnshoot25
07-07-2010, 1:55 PM
cant we all just get along?

Apparently not.

BTW, I dig the quote, Victory Bill.

RobG
07-07-2010, 2:17 PM
Those in fear of UOC and LOC are just what the Bradyites were hoping for, a divide and conquer of gun owners. I do not UOC nor wish to as it seems too complicated to conform to the laws and I have schools seemingly everywhere in my area. But, I certainly support those that exercise a legal activity especially when it comes to guns and the 2A.

Paradiddle
07-07-2010, 2:43 PM
I can understand not minding having to CCW if you're in snow country, but SoCal? Come on, it's freaking (too) hot (for cover garments) here, most days.

Thunderwear baby!!!!

http://www.thunderwear.com/images/belly.jpg

Sinixstar
07-07-2010, 2:54 PM
The more SHEEPLE that see open carry, the more they will get used to it and the sooner it will become not so much a big deal. Open carrying can actually lead to eased restrictions on concealled carry. Police will get tired of responding to MWAG calls, especially when in numbers and there are no violations of the law happening. If the politicians realize we WILL exercise our right to bear arms in an "in your face" manner, to ease the Sheeples' anxiety, they'd probably rather us conceal and make it easier to do so.


God love ya for having determination - but you can't blame people for being skeptical.

It's the inverse of the 'more legislation' argument.

Gun control legislation has failed to control gun crime. Therefor we need more gun legislation to show criminals we mean business.

UOC'ing has failed to get the legislature to respect our rights, therefor we need more UOC'ing to show them we mean business.

I mean, really?

Dr. Peter Venkman
07-07-2010, 2:56 PM
God love ya for having determination - but you can't blame people for being skeptical.

It's the inverse of the 'more legislation' argument.

Gun control legislation has failed to control gun crime. Therefor we need more gun legislation to show criminals we mean business.

UOC'ing has failed to get the legislature to respect our rights, therefor we need more UOC'ing to show them we mean business.

I mean, really?

+1

Trying the same thing over and expecting different results is nuts.

N6ATF
07-07-2010, 3:37 PM
Thunderwear baby!!!!

http://www.thunderwear.com/images/belly.jpg

Schwetty Balls is not my friend.

Paradiddle
07-07-2010, 6:17 PM
Schwetty Balls is not my friend.

You should only carry a stainless pieces if your balls sweat...

Liberty1
07-07-2010, 6:39 PM
Thunderwear baby!!!!

http://www.thunderwear.com/images/belly.jpg

For my back up sure. "Hold on while I whip this out" :D But I stopped wearing shorts that short about the time three ring solid color knee high tubs socks went out of fashion.

Victory Bill
07-07-2010, 10:28 PM
+1

Trying the same thing over and expecting different results is nuts.

ABSO-F-in-LUTELY!!!! Beat it into 'em. In your face at every juncture, especially with the SCOTUS on our side. Get the momentum and steamroll over them because once you lose momentum it's hard to get it back. Look toward the end of the video. I'm impressed the young lady even realized what the Second Amendment was, that alone should bring a glimmer of hope. The older lady complained that he shouldn't be carrying the gun out in the open. She didn't say he shouldn't be carrying the gun AT ALL. What was the reaction when the group of UOCers came that weekend...NOTHING!!!!! This time there were even more "crazed gun nuts." Anyone see a SWAT van pull up? We need to show them we will not roll over and allow them to take a right given to us by God. Rolling over hoping they will throw you a bone is insane. Ask the republicans what playing nice with the enemy gets you.

Victory Bill
07-07-2010, 10:46 PM
Apparently not.

BTW, I dig the quote, Victory Bill.

Thanks! I get a little steamed when I see more passionate debates WITHIN our ranks rather than taking 2AM foes to the woodshed. I wish that passion would be taken to city council meetings, or to state legislatures, or the crooks in D.C. The idea of getting along with the enemy while they strip us of our rights makes me want to puke. I'd rather just kick them in the...

AlliedArmory
07-08-2010, 3:42 AM
I do not open carry and do not plan to. I always carry my knife and that along with my 2 fists is enough protection I feel I need....Unless someone pulls a gun on me. But in that case I do not know if I have the guts to actually pull the trigger on another human anyways. If someone was shooting at me, that is a different story.

Victory Bill
07-08-2010, 8:41 AM
I do not open carry and do not plan to. I always carry my knife and that along with my 2 fists is enough protection I feel I need....Unless someone pulls a gun on me. But in that case I do not know if I have the guts to actually pull the trigger on another human anyways. If someone was shooting at me, that is a different story.

And all the more power to you, I think that is great (not that you need me to validate your thoughts or approve). You know your comfort zone and your potential reaction at the moment of truth. I admire a person that knows where to draw the line, what works best for them and adjusts accordingly.

Sinixstar
07-08-2010, 11:29 AM
ABSO-F-in-LUTELY!!!! Beat it into 'em. In your face at every juncture, especially with the SCOTUS on our side. Get the momentum and steamroll over them because once you lose momentum it's hard to get it back. Look toward the end of the video. I'm impressed the young lady even realized what the Second Amendment was, that alone should bring a glimmer of hope. The older lady complained that he shouldn't be carrying the gun out in the open. She didn't say he shouldn't be carrying the gun AT ALL. What was the reaction when the group of UOCers came that weekend...NOTHING!!!!! This time there were even more "crazed gun nuts." Anyone see a SWAT van pull up? We need to show them we will not roll over and allow them to take a right given to us by God. Rolling over hoping they will throw you a bone is insane. Ask the republicans what playing nice with the enemy gets you.

Good luck with that plan big guy.

Paradiddle
07-08-2010, 11:41 AM
For my back up sure. "Hold on while I whip this out" :D But I stopped wearing shorts that short about the time three ring solid color knee high tubs socks went out of fashion.

Ummm - that is a chick. Chicks should wear short shorts. It would be even easier for you in your Old Navy cargo shorts....