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View Full Version : Denied by the DoJ on my 2nd Purchase (Do Not Realease Firearm)


Art
06-26-2010, 2:31 PM
Hello Calgunners, I’m new here and in April finally decided to become a gun owner. I’ve had couple of arrests back in the late 90’s but I was mainly in my teens. So I told this to the dealer back in April and he said doesn’t hurt to try. So we did and I bought a starters rifle (marlin 795) After the 10 days I went to the shop and picked up the rifle no problems :) I was very excited and went to the range to test out my new rifle:cool2: ! I did try it and loved it but it was just not that powerful and I think I had the weakest gun in the range (two weeks in a row..lol) so I decided to get something a little bigger. I went back to the gun shop and decided that I will buy a Russian Saiga. I put $100 deposit and was going to pay the rest after 10 days (June 28th) at time of pickup.

I decided to go down there today and buy some ammo and the guys at the store immediately told me that “they have bad news” I was shocked to see a letter from the DoJ stating not to release the firearm and that this person is prohibited of getting a firearm.

The guy at the store told me to call Monday morning and find out why. I guess I’m confused since back in April 28th I picked up my Marlin and decided to buy a Saiga on June 18th – is our state getting liberal or is this a mix up? From what I know there is no limitation as to how may rifles you can buy per year in Kali.

I’m so anxious and cant wait till Monday morning  Whatever it is I’ve decided that I may end up fighting this and appeal.

Any tips advice or thoughts when I call Monday?

thanks!

abusalim81
06-26-2010, 2:36 PM
"is our state getting liberal or is this a mix up?"


Uhhh, our state is very liberal and for a very long time! :(

Art
06-26-2010, 2:37 PM
Yeah thats true but it can get worse :)

thayne
06-26-2010, 2:41 PM
No way of knowing until you call DOJ. You said you had arrests in the 90's? Were you convicted of any felony?

It could be they made a mistake letting you get the first one, or a mistake not letting you get the second.

ojisan
06-26-2010, 2:44 PM
In the vast majority of these cases, there has been a simple identification error.
A phone call or two may be needed, but don't panic yet.

Art
06-26-2010, 2:45 PM
Hi, no felonies. I did get arrested back in 2003 for having a baseball bat in my car. the police officer booked me on felony charges but the case was dropped and my lawyer took care of it. I didnt even go to court or anything.

Art
06-26-2010, 2:47 PM
Ok great! that makes me feel a little better. But my last name is no uncommon maybe 10 other people have it in California and 6 are relatives... :eek:
In the vast majority of these cases, there has been a simple identification error.
A phone call or two may be needed, but don't panic yet.

HkFan416
06-26-2010, 2:48 PM
So you were never convicted of any charges right? Any misdemeanor convictions?

anthonyca
06-26-2010, 2:48 PM
Hi, no felonies. I did get arrested back in 2003 for having a baseball bat in my car. the police officer booked me on felony charges but the case was dropped and my lawyer took care of it. I didnt even go to court or anything.

Wow, can you yell us about this? So many people think something like this never really happens.

HkFan416
06-26-2010, 2:49 PM
Also, if you were never convicted of anything, DOJ's computers might not show a deposition of the charges against you. Hit them up on Monday.

Art
06-26-2010, 2:58 PM
The baseball bat case had to be the craziest case anyone has heard. Actually when the cop pulled me over I even had my bible with me so you could tell I was not a trouble maker. The officer was just nasty and had an attitude problem. Sat me on the curb (handcuffed) while him and another rookie went through my car like it was owned by a terrorist or some mobster.

After they found nothing they decided to book for "manufacturing and distributing of deadly and dangerous weapons" ???? what ??? I was shocked of course and while in the city police dpt, I thought I was going away for a long time...my wife by the way was pregnant with our child who was born couple weeks after the incident on June 30th 03.

I called my family they found a bail bond who we paid $2000 to bail me out. Paid the attorney another $2500 to work on the case. The case was dropped sure but it still shows up as an arrest and Iíve even been let go from a job in a Bank because of it. I paid and got out of it good but I wonder how many people get arrested like me who have no $$ to fight and get locked away ?

I highly doubt its anything to do with that but who knows. One thing I do know is I donít have any felonies and any conviction for misdemeanor has been minor theft over 10 years ago for < $100.




Wow, can you yell us about this? So many people think something like this never really happens.

Devilinbp
06-26-2010, 3:04 PM
At my first purchase, it was put on hold as well and at the call all i had to do was clarify some minor questions.

Unless we don't have the whole story i wouldn't worry about it....make the call and find out what they need.

Art
06-26-2010, 3:05 PM
Correct, no felony convictions but I do have misdemeanors. I got arrested one time for reckless driving, another one embezzlement (my employer filed charges for some stupid stuff I cant get into) over 12 years ago and maybe another one for getting in a fight while drunk..lol. But I was between the ages of 16 to 19. Iím 29 now.


So you were never convicted of any charges right? Any misdemeanor convictions?

Art
06-26-2010, 3:07 PM
were you denied or was it put on hold? mine specifically says "prohibited" :confused:

At my first purchase, it was put on hold as well and at the call all i had to do was clarify some minor questions.

Unless we don't have the whole story i wouldn't worry about it....make the call and find out what they need.

gunsmith
06-26-2010, 5:10 PM
I had a similar problem, I didn't let someone rob me and got arrested for simple battery, never got to court-they lost the paperwork! once I got wise that they were ignoring me I kept my mouth shut until after the stat of limitations- so no convictions but it was difficult to buy- I had to fax the "brady unit" a letter from the court saying they're not going to charge me but they couldn't take it out of the system.
a year with no ccw due to a stupid fight. it sucked!

bodger
06-26-2010, 7:05 PM
The baseball bat case had to be the craziest case anyone has heard. Actually when the cop pulled me over I even had my bible with me so you could tell I was not a trouble maker. The officer was just nasty and had an attitude problem. Sat me on the curb (handcuffed) while him and another rookie went through my car like it was owned by a terrorist or some mobster.

After they found nothing they decided to book for "manufacturing and distributing of deadly and dangerous weapons" ???? what ??? I was shocked of course and while in the city police dpt, I thought I was going away for a long time...my wife by the way was pregnant with our child who was born couple weeks after the incident on June 30th 03.

I called my family they found a bail bond who we paid $2000 to bail me out. Paid the attorney another $2500 to work on the case. The case was dropped sure but it still shows up as an arrest and Iíve even been let go from a job in a Bank because of it. I paid and got out of it good but I wonder how many people get arrested like me who have no $$ to fight and get locked away ?

I highly doubt its anything to do with that but who knows. One thing I do know is I donít have any felonies and any conviction for misdemeanor has been minor theft over 10 years ago for < $100.


I see your location is Glendale. Was this the Glendale P.D. that jacked you up for the bat?

Blackhawk556
06-26-2010, 7:30 PM
for a bat?????????????????????

damn i didnt know

ke6guj
06-26-2010, 7:47 PM
for a bat?????????????????????

damn i didnt know

a bat can be considered a "billy club" which is a 12020 violation. context means everything on something like that. Cop pulls over a car at 2am "up to no good" and there is a bat, or one of those miniature novelty bats, in the car, and there might be an arrest for a billy club since it is probably being carried to be used as a weapon.

take that same bat, add a ball and glove, and the context changes to that bat is probably carried as sporting equipment and not as a weapon. A 12020 charge is less likely.

Same goes for something like a screwdriver. Hang out on the corner living the thug life with a screwdriver concealed in your pocket and you risk a "concealed dirk or dagger" charge. But have a screwdriver in your pocket because you are going to your mom's house to install a ceiling fan, not likely to pick up that dirk/dagger charge.

badicedog
06-26-2010, 7:47 PM
Did the bat have a RADDLOCK attached? (bad joke!) Sorry to hear about that, man I carry my kids bat, gloves and balls all the time...WTF?

Art
06-26-2010, 7:49 PM
Yes sir...The one and only - Glendale P.D. :shrug:

I see your location is Glendale. Was this the Glendale P.D. that jacked you up for the bat?

Art
06-26-2010, 7:53 PM
:) No prob... If you have the gloves and the balls I highly doubt they will take you to jail. In my case, I went to Big Bear in the mountains for 10 days with the wife a month prior and put the baseball bat in my trunk to take it to the cabin with me. I came back and totally forgot to take it out...who knew it would cost me $5k one day and unnecessary legal issues :confused:
Did the bat have a RADDLOCK attached? (bad joke!) Sorry to hear about that, man I carry my kids bat, gloves and balls all the time...WTF?

Art
06-26-2010, 9:02 PM
I did dig into my old court paperwork and the baseball case was 12020 and from reading even if I was convicted of that, it would not prohibit me of owning a gun...strange when two months ago they had no problem of giving me a marlin...gishh...cant wait till Monday. thanks to everyone for the answers. I'll keep yall posted.

thayne
06-26-2010, 9:06 PM
I did dig into my old court paperwork and the baseball case was 12020 and from reading even if I was convicted of that, it would not prohibit me of owning a gun...strange when two months ago they had no problem of giving me a marlin...gishh...cant wait till Monday. thanks to everyone for the answers. I'll keep yall posted.

I wouldnt bring up the marlin when you call doj.

frankm
06-26-2010, 9:16 PM
I had a friend who was arrested as a runaway in NYC at 16. He's 55 now. He was denied a gun cause there was an "arrest" on his record, but they didn't state what is was. He had to get in touch with NY to clear it up before they let him have the gun. Maybe you just need a letter or something to send to the DOJ.

darkjedi351
06-26-2010, 9:28 PM
maybe another one for getting in a fight while drunk..lol. But I was between the ages of 16 to 19. I’m 29 now.


I had a drunken fight in 1991 in arizona and the DOJ held up a gun last year because the arrest was listed as an assault. i've been buying guns for over 20 years without any problems until this. it was some annoying smug woman that had my case at the DOJ. yes a antigun lib!

She wanted to verify it wasn't a domestic violence arrest before releasing the gun. it took almost a month for them to get the records from Tempe PD but i did get my gun.

call the DOJ and find out what it is and answer their questions.

good luck!

MP301
06-26-2010, 9:51 PM
I did dig into my old court paperwork and the baseball case was 12020 and from reading even if I was convicted of that, it would not prohibit me of owning a gun...strange when two months ago they had no problem of giving me a marlin...gishh...cant wait till Monday. thanks to everyone for the answers. I'll keep yall posted.

I could be wrong, but a 12020 conviction would most likely prohibit you..at least for 10 years...its a weapons offense.

If im wrong, someone will come along shortly to correct me...

stitchnicklas
06-26-2010, 9:56 PM
worst case ,you go to court and get a certified copy of the deposition stating the case was dropped.

i had my ffl held up for a driving while suspended warrant($50) arrest in 2003,that judge immediately dropped it all and sent me on the way after i paid the last 50 buck fine.but it stayed as a arrest with no final deposition in the computer so i had to go to the clerk and pay 27 bucks for a certified copy of the case and mail it to the atf,7 days later my ffl arrived.


trust me the doj makes a lot of mistakes.....:taz::taz:

foxtrotuniformlima
06-26-2010, 10:06 PM
Art,

Any changes in your CA Drivers License lately ?

<from the CA DOJ web site FAQs>

If you have a conviction for a firearms-prohibiting offense, such as felony drunk driving, your driving record would affect your ability to purchase a firearm. Furthermore, your driver's license must be valid. A suspension, an outstanding ticket, or fine may cause your license to be invalid.

Art
06-26-2010, 10:11 PM
I do have certified court paperwork from LA County that I obtained back in june 2009 and it shows all my convictions. That 12020 is sure enough not on the list. I have only two and one is the reckless driving one back from 99 and an embezzlement (<$100) back from July of 2000. I've been an outstanding citizen since my youthful days but I guess being in our great lib state, stuff like this is expected and never goes away...ok only about 36 hours left before I cal the DOJ. thanks everyone!

Art
06-26-2010, 10:15 PM
Not that I know of...no tickets in over 6 years. Everything paid up. Not even a parking ticket. My license was renewed 2 years ago and have insurance on all my cars. The only thing is I moved and on my current license it has my old address but I did submit an online change of address request to the DMV.. Oh and no drunk driving either :)



Art,

Any changes in your CA Drivers License lately ?

<from the CA DOJ web site FAQs>

If you have a conviction for a firearms-prohibiting offense, such as felony drunk driving, your driving record would affect your ability to purchase a firearm. Furthermore, your driver's license must be valid. A suspension, an outstanding ticket, or fine may cause your license to be invalid.

battleship
06-27-2010, 1:12 AM
Damn ive always carried a base ball bat on the back seat, i had no idea this could be construded in a different way by the police. let alone there being a law against it. Sounds like something you would only hear of in England. Just crazy!

Hope you get your DOJ issues sorted.

99į
06-27-2010, 1:26 AM
did you check the dros sheet out with the dealer? Maybe you accidentally checked a yes on something that should have been a no. Maybe the dealer screwed up when inputing your info into the system. Unless, you have something pending you dont know about in the court system.

dantodd
06-27-2010, 1:26 AM
Damn ive always carried a base ball bat on the back seat, i had no idea this could be construded in a different way by the police. let alone there being a law against it. Sounds like something you would only hear of in England. Just crazy!

Hope you get your DOJ issues sorted.

Why do you carry a baseball bat on the back seat?

battleship
06-27-2010, 1:34 AM
Because i dont play base ball.

dantodd
06-27-2010, 1:40 AM
Because i dont play base ball.

huh?

CP562
06-27-2010, 2:08 AM
Like everyone else said, just call DoJ on Monday morning. They'll tell you what court the case is out of and what the status is that's holding you back.

I dealt with them a while back, when I had a DROS come back denied on a Mossberg at B5 on day 6 (Friday afternoon)...and at the same time had just the day before started a PPT on 2 pistols at another FFL.

B5 called me with the news, I called DoJ and got the scoop. Turned out I had a bench warrant on a very old misdemeanor case I had assumed long disposed, but the proof of community service hours had arrived (sent directly to the Court by the agency) 2 weeks after a warrant was issued.

I asked DoJ if they could possibly mark the PPT as a "delay" for a couple days to let me straighten it out, and the nice lady offered to go ask her supervisor. After a short wait, she came back and said that the supervisor pulled the 2nd DROS to the side and had given me until Tuesday to resolve it and fax them proof.

I went to court Monday morning and you should have seen the public defender's face (who I didn't even know would be there) when she asked me how I found out about the outstanding case (since I didn't get hauled in on the warrant, but walked in instead).

CP: "Oh, I had a background check held up, and that's what clued me in".

pd: "Really, for what kind of job"?

CP: "Oh, not for a job...I'm buying some guns".

pd: :eek:

CP: :43: (with a slight tinge of :o )


So, we went in...she apologized on my behalf for my misunderstanding (I had thought I was done once they got the proof), and told the Judge how I found out about the warrant ( :43: I never mentioned the original charge, 7+ years ago in my barely legal days...any guesses? :whistling: ).

Since the Judge already had my letter on file from the agency (I did extra hours, which the agency noted in the letter, also writing that they were considering me for a paid position), she recalled the warrant and wrapped up my case "with the swiftness".

They asked me if I wanted a minute order to send to DoJ as proof, so I thanked them and waited a few minutes for that. Went home to fax it to them, called to follow up and got the green light from said supervisor directly...for which I thanked her profusely.

Had to redo the DROS at Big 5...but the PPT on the 2 pistols was saved, which sure did spare me a huge headache, not to mention 2 additional drives to IE (about a 70 mi round trip) to straighten it out.

:gunsmilie:

Kharn
06-27-2010, 3:20 AM
The baseball bat case had to be the craziest case anyone has heard. Actually when the cop pulled me over I even had my bible with me so you could tell I was not a trouble maker.One of my cop friends always likes to say a bible on the dash translates from ghetto to cop as: "One of the people inside this vehicle is involved in the trafficking or sale of illegal narcotics."

If any one of the passengers says "I am a deacon in the church" trying to 'helpfully' resolve the situation, it becomes "heavily involved". ;)

Art
06-27-2010, 7:36 AM
I guess cops have psychic powers at least in Glendale they do...lol... While I agree if you go to the ghetto most so called deacons are thugs and ex-cons but in my case I was just a kid looking to find religion...oh and knew the bible at that time in and out so it wasnt just some book in the car...I used to study theology in those days so I was prepared to give them all the answers...but the cop decided that I was a gangmember (not just a member he said he remembers me as one of the founders of that gang???? :chris: ) and hauled me away...As much as I speak about this case it gets fresh again and I feel like suing the officer and our local P.D. just to make a point. It's been so long that you forget but if this case is in the way of m,e getting my Saiga, they are going to hear from a better lawyer this time around...I cant let one little racist cops action hunt me down for life.

peace!

One of my cop friends always likes to say a bible on the dash translates from ghetto to cop as: "One of the people inside this vehicle is involved in the trafficking or sale of illegal narcotics."

If any one of the passengers says "I am a deacon in the church" trying to 'helpfully' resolve the situation, it becomes "heavily involved". ;)

socal2310
06-27-2010, 8:11 AM
The baseball bat case had to be the craziest case anyone has heard. Actually when the cop pulled me over I even had my bible with me so you could tell I was not a trouble maker.

If there is a more cynical group of people on this planet than police officers, I don't know who it is. If they decide one thing is off, every mitigating factor that might serve to allay their concerns will instead reinforce them.

Bible on the front seat, Police officers benevolent fund bumper sticker, DARE bumper sticker etc. practically shout "drug dealer" or other unsavory character.

Ryan

P.S. This was not intended as an anti-police rant. They spend all of their time either in the company of other police officers or criminals - of course they're cynical.

dixieD
06-27-2010, 8:20 AM
Why do you carry a baseball bat on the back seat?

Probably because like most of us he cannot get a CCW. Geez, I just don't understand questions like this given our 2A. I carry a California-legal folding knife as it is a little more versatile than a bat.

paul0660
06-27-2010, 8:26 AM
I wouldnt bring up the marlin when you call doj.

For sure. Prohibited means owning, not buying.

Manic Moran
06-27-2010, 8:28 AM
Actually when the cop pulled me over I even had my bible with me so you could tell I was not a trouble maker

With respect, if I were in the cop's place, that would make no difference to me whatsoever. Religion has been used as an excuse to kill more people than anything else in history.

Nothing more dangerous than someone who think's he's doing God's Work.

NTM

skscj
06-27-2010, 8:35 AM
WS Ls ?

Art
06-27-2010, 8:42 AM
wow had no idea...In my youth I did hang around the bad crowd and knew lots of people who were anti law. None, I mean none had bibles or DARE stickers so to me didn't seem that way. I guess ur right, if someone was transporting drugs across the state. What better way to do it other than dressing up as a deacon or a priest, putting a bible and a cross next to you and off you go to "ministry" of I mean "trafficking" lol...its a crazy world we live in dear Calgunners. :gene:

If there is a more cynical group of people on this planet than police officers, I don't know who it is. If they decide one thing is off, every mitigating factor that might serve to allay their concerns will instead reinforce them.

Bible on the front seat, Police officers benevolent fund bumper sticker, DARE bumper sticker etc. practically shout "drug dealer" or other unsavory character.

Ryan

P.S. This was not intended as an anti-police rant. They spend all of their time either in the company of other police officers or criminals - of course they're cynical.

Art
06-27-2010, 8:52 AM
No not that one :)

WS Ls ?

Turbinator
06-27-2010, 10:01 AM
wow had no idea...In my youth I did hang around the bad crowd and knew lots of people who were anti law. None, I mean none had bibles or DARE stickers so to me didn't seem that way. I guess ur right, if someone was transporting drugs across the state. What better way to do it other than dressing up as a deacon or a priest, putting a bible and a cross next to you and off you go to "ministry" of I mean "trafficking" lol...its a crazy world we live in dear Calgunners. :gene:

Count me in on the group that doesn't think that having a bible automatically qualifies you as a "good guy" - just like having a title or even a badge does not automatically mean you're a good guy either. Just saying.

Turby

winnre
06-27-2010, 10:16 AM
With respect, if I were in the cop's place, that would make no difference to me whatsoever. Religion has been used as an excuse to kill more people than anything else in history.

Nothing more dangerous than someone who think's he's doing God's Work.

NTM


I agree! It really ticks those of us off who KNOW we are doing God's work!!! :43:

frankm
06-27-2010, 10:18 AM
With respect, if I were in the cop's place, that would make no difference to me whatsoever. Religion has been used as an excuse to kill more people than anything else in history.

Nothing more dangerous than someone who think's he's doing God's Work.

NTM

No, that crown belongs to socialists.

The Nomadd
06-27-2010, 12:18 PM
I'd call the DOJ. My Dad had a similar problem once. He purchased a friend's Colt 1991A .45, when the friend retired from law enforcement. Did a PPT at a local gun store. went to pick the gun up, and was told he had been denied. I called up the DOJ, since being a AOJ major, I'm a little more knowledgeable than my Dad is on these things. Spoke to a rather (surprisingly) helpful lady, who explained that he had been turned down due to an arrest back in early 1984. (He had bought some throwing knives at the swap meet. He was on his way home with them, stopped to grab some food, and the cops happen to be there and popped him.)
I explained to the lady the circumstances behind the arrest, and the fact that the judge had completely dropped the charges, and had even given my Dad back the knives. Not to mention this had happened in the early 1980's, some 20+ years earlier. Also mentioned the fact that my Dad had also purchased another .45 just a few years prior to this sale, and nothing had come up, and he got his gun with no problems.
The lady did some looking, came back, told me I was right. That my Father shouldn't have been denied, and said he can pick up his gun tomorrow. Which he did.
Moral of story? It's a government agency, and they do screw up, so don't lose hop just yet.

Art
06-27-2010, 12:30 PM
Thanks Nomadd, appreciate it. I will call tomorrow and hopefully this is just a hick up on their end ad I would hate to get an attorney and fight with the gov :( appreciate all the wonderful comments and support I've got!

SJgunguy24
06-27-2010, 12:45 PM
a bat can be considered a "billy club" which is a 12020 violation. context means everything on something like that. Cop pulls over a car at 2am "up to no good" and there is a bat, or one of those miniature novelty bats, in the car, and there might be an arrest for a billy club since it is probably being carried to be used as a weapon.

take that same bat, add a ball and glove, and the context changes to that bat is probably carried as sporting equipment and not as a weapon. A 12020 charge is less likely.

Same goes for something like a screwdriver. Hang out on the corner living the thug life with a screwdriver concealed in your pocket and you risk a "concealed dirk or dagger" charge. But have a screwdriver in your pocket because you are going to your mom's house to install a ceiling fan, not likely to pick up that dirk/dagger charge.

Exactly this. I wear gloves with plastic knuckles when I ride my mt bike. If I didn't ride they could be considered a brass knuckle type device since they are worn. But I ride a bike and that puts intent to do harm out of the picture, while not completly but enough to not be to worried about it.
If you do carry a bat, toos a couple of baseballs and a glove or 2 back there as well.

PressCheck
06-27-2010, 12:52 PM
If your going to have a bat in the car - Also have a ball, and glove.

Kharn
06-27-2010, 12:59 PM
If your going to have a bat in the car - Also have a ball, and glove.A ball with dirt ground into the leather and broken-in glove. ;)

Art
06-28-2010, 8:07 AM
Hello everyone, called the DoJ just now. Well turns out when I was 17 I had an overdose experimenting with some drugs. My mom took me to the hospital so they can treat me. I was there for 5 days and once the drugs were out, I was released. I was not given any type of "crazy" medication and was cleared to leave. I guess they think I'm insane :( I have no drug charges and no arrests for drugs...ever. I have been clean for over 10 years but I guess my little mistake as a teenager and my mother taking me to the hospital ended up violating my 2nd amendment.

Now my question is this - is there anything I can do in this instance? Should I get a lawyer or just give up and buy a samurai sword to protect my family from thieves ? btw, I've been robbed once and 4 months ago caught someone trying to break into my house.

Art
06-28-2010, 8:15 AM
oh and the lady did tell me to surrender all my guns :eek:

bruss01
06-28-2010, 8:27 AM
So now they're checking medical records and not just police records?

Scary shinola!

Flintlock Tom
06-28-2010, 8:28 AM
The DoJ has a process for appealing their decision. You should have asked how you could go about "straightening this out".
Call again and ask about what avenues are open to rectifying the situation. Also ask if you can get copies of the records they are using for their determination.

Art
06-28-2010, 8:36 AM
yep they sure are... :( calling them...wow - its been busy dialtone for over 10 minutes.

bodger
06-28-2010, 8:38 AM
Thanks Nomadd, appreciate it. I will call tomorrow and hopefully this is just a hick up on their end ad I would hate to get an attorney and fight with the gov :( appreciate all the wonderful comments and support I've got!

No drug charges or arrests? Were you involuntarily committed to a mental facility?

You need to talk to a lawyer right quick. If the DOJ considers you a prohibited person and you own and possess a firearm, that is not good. You need to get the official line on this right away.

sweetcaddy
06-28-2010, 8:38 AM
You can have your rights taken away if you are charged with 5150 how ever if your mother brought you there to have treatment and the police had nothing to do with this (mom calling 911 because you OD) then there should not be a record of it unless it was iilegal drugs or you were a threat to yourself or others.

Since you were held for 5 days they prob thought you were in danger of a suicide. That would mean the police were involved.

bruss01
06-28-2010, 8:39 AM
Art, don't take this to be critical - we all make mistakes in our youth, your's truly included - fortunately mine did not hang around or come back to haunt me (yet!). This is the kind of situation that your average 17 year old kid just doesn't think about when making day-to-day decisions... I wish there was a way to GET young people to think about how what they do today might make their life difficult 2 or 3 decades down the line.

Good luck and give-em-hell-Harry.

gunsmith
06-28-2010, 8:44 AM
good luck Art, its terrible what happened to you- we are all distracted by the new supreme court decision- I bet someone can assist you in a day or two.

Hozr
06-28-2010, 9:00 AM
The doc at the hospital can initiate a 5150. If you were there for 5 days you probably never even heard about it. Same paperwork get filed either way.

Art
06-28-2010, 10:43 AM
Hey guys, I called the doj and they said the same. if its 5250 its ban for life :( I just went down to the hospital to try to get my records and they said its on hold and the need the doctors approval. What ??? who knew you cant even get your own hospital records right there at that moment.

Art
06-28-2010, 10:47 AM
if anyone knows of a good lawyer in the Los Angeles area please let me know. thanks!

usctrojan
06-28-2010, 11:11 AM
5150 has a state 5 year hold from admittance. 5250 has a state 5 year and a federal lifetime ban.
http://www.disabilityrightsca.org/pubs/542501.htm

usctrojan
06-28-2010, 11:12 AM
Hey guys, I called the doj and they said the same. if its 5150 its ban for life :( I just went down to the hospital to try to get my records and they said its on hold and the need the doctors approval. What ??? who knew you cant even get your own hospital records right there at that moment...wow getting tired of this whole process running around for some stupid thing I did in my teens. Why in the world is our system so complicated? I will have to wait till the hospital gets back to me so I can see what it says.

I wonder if it is a 5150 and if there would be a way to make them change their mind. No arrests in over 10 years, no drug charges, great dad, husband and I run a multi million dollar company... I'm sure the lib's wont care but the system looks broken in my eyes and needs a a major re-haul.

Do your homework... Misinformation is king at the DOJ. You might just be a 5 year hold. Or they can be mixing you up with another person.

stitchnicklas
06-28-2010, 11:24 AM
call calguns foundation....

Art
06-28-2010, 12:16 PM
thanks for your answer! so a 5250 means you can never purchase a firearm or own one?



5150 has a state 5 year hold from admittance. 5250 has a state 5 year and a federal lifetime ban.
http://www.disabilityrightsca.org/pubs/542501.htm

paul0660
06-28-2010, 12:40 PM
Five days is more than 72 hours, so he was likely 5250'd at the end of the 3 day 5150 period. I doubt the doctor who did that realized the implications.

thedrickel
06-28-2010, 12:54 PM
Call Jason Davis.

Sucks you had a bad acid trip when you were 17 and now you're ****ed.

Anchors
06-28-2010, 1:02 PM
a bat can be considered a "billy club" which is a 12020 violation. context means everything on something like that. Cop pulls over a car at 2am "up to no good" and there is a bat, or one of those miniature novelty bats, in the car, and there might be an arrest for a billy club since it is probably being carried to be used as a weapon.

take that same bat, add a ball and glove, and the context changes to that bat is probably carried as sporting equipment and not as a weapon. A 12020 charge is less likely.

Same goes for something like a screwdriver. Hang out on the corner living the thug life with a screwdriver concealed in your pocket and you risk a "concealed dirk or dagger" charge. But have a screwdriver in your pocket because you are going to your mom's house to install a ceiling fan, not likely to pick up that dirk/dagger charge.

This is true.
I've actually known people that always kept a baseball and glove in their trunk with a couple bats, but the bats were not there for sporting reasons.

usctrojan
06-28-2010, 1:03 PM
thanks for your answer! so a 5250 means you can never purchase a firearm or own one?

5250 is a federal ban not a state ban. If you are 5 years past the incident than you need to be federally reinstated. You are not permitted to buy, attempt to buy, or own a gun. Any guns in your possession are at risk confiscation (to my knowledge).

For a 5250 as I recall there has to be a hearing and a medical board that you attend. This isn't something that happens behind your back. For a 5150 I think you are just told. Although I would completely understand a patient not remembering since these experiences can be rather traumatic.

Sign the paperwork at the hospital and get your record and go hire a lawyer. There are a few who advertise on this site i.e. Davis and Associates. Try calling the DOJ for more information i.e. when did the alleged 5150/5250 happen. This can help narrow down what hospital/event/treatment

Please use this information for doing research and don't take it as scripture or anything equivalent. I am not a mental health professional, doctor, gun lawyer, or anything that would make me an authority on this subject. I only know this information because I have a passion for reading and research!

Anchors
06-28-2010, 1:08 PM
I didn't realize juvenile records applied.
I guess all the myths about whatever happening before you're 18 is just BS.
I think it's sad that a respectable adult with a family and career can't buy a firearm because he did something non-violent/non-firearms related over ten years ago.

Art
06-28-2010, 1:15 PM
Thanks again! The incident happened in June I believe of 2000. I never went to a hearing (from what I remember)


5250 is a federal ban not a state ban. If you are 5 years past the incident than you need to be federally reinstated. You are not permitted to buy, attempt to buy, or own a gun. Any guns in your possession are at risk confiscation (to my knowledge).

For a 5250 as I recall there has to be a hearing and a medical board that you attend. This isn't something that happens behind your back. For a 5150 I think you are just told. Although I would completely understand a patient not remembering since these experiences can be rather traumatic.

Sign the paperwork at the hospital and get your record and go hire a lawyer. There are a few who advertise on this site i.e. Davis and Associates. Try calling the DOJ for more information i.e. when did the alleged 5150/5250 happen. This can help narrow down what hospital/event/treatment

Please use this information for doing research and don't take it as scripture or anything equivalent. I am not a mental health professional, doctor, gun lawyer, or anything that would make me an authority on this subject. I only know this information because I have a passion for reading and research!

Joe
06-28-2010, 1:16 PM
Hope you can get this problem squared away. Keep us updated. I too say call Jason Davis. He's a really good lawyer

paul0660
06-28-2010, 1:21 PM
to speak more inept about the situation.

LOL a true non sequitor! In depth is what you mean.


Good luck!

advocatusdiaboli
06-28-2010, 1:26 PM
A suspension, an outstanding ticket, or fine may cause your license to be invalid.

I have a good story on that one.

I was involved in a minor traffic accident in 2004 (fender bender, no injuries). My driver's license came up for renewal in the Fall of 2007 and I never got a form. 4 days before expiration I got nervous and called the DMV. They said my license had been suspended since June 2004--over 3 years! I had no idea since I had not been pulled over or had an accident since--so my license was never run. I asked why didn't they given me notice, they said they didn't have to! They can suspend you license for something like this you have no way of knowing about--and they don't even have to tell you they are doing it! I asked why and they replied my proof of insurance from my insurance company was never received from CSAA (my insurer for the accident) after the June 2004 accident. I asked why that was my fault and my license would be suspended, they said that's just the way it is. I was told I'd have to pay several different fees, appeal/challenge the suspension and I "might" get it re-instated in 6 months--a hearing might be necessary--no guarantee! Naturally I called CSAA and they said they transmit the poof electronically and it must have gotten lost--happens a lot they said. This happens a lot? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? CSAA promised to call them immediately and straighten it out, it took 3 hours, but my license suspension was lifted. I went to the DMV the next day--had to take the written test, eye test (no driving test though) and all was fine. California DMV: incompetent idiots.

usctrojan
06-28-2010, 1:30 PM
Art... Good luck and please keep us updated. Hopefully our country can judge you based on who you are today and deem you worthy of this right.

RyanAnchors... NOTHING in your past is gone. I applied to the LAPD during that process the background investigators informed us that EVERYTHING you have ever done will be known. Regardless of whether you were a victim, witness, proven innocent, expunged, sealed, etc, etc. Our government may be incompetent... but they know who to keep a record.

Art
06-28-2010, 1:37 PM
ok hopefully ill get the hospital records soon. thanks

problemchild
06-28-2010, 1:54 PM
Correct, no felony convictions but I do have misdemeanors. I got arrested one time for reckless driving, another one embezzlement (my employer filed charges for some stupid stuff I cant get into) over 12 years ago and maybe another one for getting in a fight while drunk..lol. But I was between the ages of 16 to 19. Iím 29 now.

Do you still drink?

Art
06-28-2010, 1:58 PM
nooo - maybe twice a year...one or two beers here and there. b-days and family gatherings only.

duldej
06-28-2010, 2:03 PM
reiterating some other posts, 5150 which it was for sure and 5250 which might have applied are distinct problems.

with any luck it was only 5150, a 72-hour detention, but 5 days, if that's so, makes me nervous because you have to still be dangerous after the 72 hours and then admitted, to wit, for 14 days.
i've got my fingers crossed for you, art, and your lawyer.

not everyone has the gall to fight the feds over 5250 2a ban.

fortunate for me, i've only ever had to deal with 5150 2a ban that's 5 years long.

i fought that, btw, in court and won after only 2 years passed.

Veggie
06-28-2010, 2:29 PM
Running away from the mental health facility may be the nail in the coffin. Make sure your lawyer knows this so he can either make the right arguements or tell you the you are SOL.

Geo
06-28-2010, 2:38 PM
I can't comment on what kind of a man the OP is today, but less than a decade ago he was an ultimate screw up. Multiple arrests, drugs, overdosing, etc... just the kind of person I want barred from owning weapons without clear evidence that the person is no longer a criminal/loser.

thayne
06-28-2010, 2:50 PM
If it was a 5250 wouldnt he have had to go before a judge? Doesnt sound like thats the case here. 5150 should have cleared up after 5 years, no?

Art
06-28-2010, 2:53 PM
no I never saw the judge after they let me go. From what I understand, you do need to go a hearing in front of a judge. that never happened...now what I signed upon release, I have no idea as I signed whatever they threw in front of me.

I turned my rifle back to the dealer.

Never heard back from the lawyer.

I'm not going to fight it in the court system since it seems like even lawyers dont want to touch this case.

Kissed my gun-rights goodbye. very sad but heck, what can I do? Buy a BB-gun and protect my family with an air-soft gun... lol. It was a pleasure being on this forum and meeting so many nice people. I prayer will be the laws get overturned or I find a good lawyer who will fight it in the courts and overturn their stupid decision to lift the ban for life.

usctrojan
06-28-2010, 4:28 PM
Really is just a lot of speculation and guessing until Art knows more from the hospital and talks to his lawyer.

Art... I have a hunch your lawyer will want you to keep the talking to a minimum. Justice isn't exactly a fair thing. Government never has your best interest in mind and this forum is far from being just gun lovers.

cmth
06-28-2010, 5:36 PM
You should close the thread and let Jason do his work (if you have decided to retain his services) to try to unravel your situation. It's going to take time and some money (a lot, perhaps) to get done, unfortunately. In the meantime you should have Jason arrange a surrender with the police of your Marlin, if you are indeed "prohibited" for the time being.

darkjedi351
06-28-2010, 7:36 PM
sell the marlin or give it to a family member. you can do a family transfer.

Anothercoilgun
06-28-2010, 7:52 PM
The baseball bat case had to be the craziest case anyone has heard. Actually when the cop pulled me over I even had my bible with me so you could tell I was not a trouble maker. The officer was just nasty and had an attitude problem. Sat me on the curb (handcuffed) while him and another rookie went through my car like it was owned by a terrorist or some mobster.

After they found nothing they decided to book for "manufacturing and distributing of deadly and dangerous weapons" ???? what ??? I was shocked of course and while in the city police dpt, I thought I was going away for a long time...my wife by the way was pregnant with our child who was born couple weeks after the incident on June 30th 03.

I called my family they found a bail bond who we paid $2000 to bail me out. Paid the attorney another $2500 to work on the case. The case was dropped sure but it still shows up as an arrest and Iíve even been let go from a job in a Bank because of it. I paid and got out of it good but I wonder how many people get arrested like me who have no $$ to fight and get locked away ?

I highly doubt its anything to do with that but who knows. One thing I do know is I donít have any felonies and any conviction for misdemeanor has been minor theft over 10 years ago for < $100.

If this is all true then you were harassed. Sue that department. Get clearance from doj first.

bodger
06-28-2010, 7:55 PM
I have a good story on that one.

I was involved in a minor traffic accident in 2004 (fender bender, no injuries). My driver's license came up for renewal in the Fall of 2007 and I never got a form. 4 days before expiration I got nervous and called the DMV. They said my license had been suspended since June 2004--over 3 years! I had no idea since I had not been pulled over or had an accident since--so my license was never run. I asked why didn't they given me notice, they said they didn't have to! They can suspend you license for something like this you have no way of knowing about--and they don't even have to tell you they are doing it! I asked why and they replied my proof of insurance from my insurance company was never received from CSAA (my insurer for the accident) after the June 2004 accident. I asked why that was my fault and my license would be suspended, they said that's just the way it is. I was told I'd have to pay several different fees, appeal/challenge the suspension and I "might" get it re-instated in 6 months--a hearing might be necessary--no guarantee! Naturally I called CSAA and they said they transmit the poof electronically and it must have gotten lost--happens a lot they said. This happens a lot? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? CSAA promised to call them immediately and straighten it out, it took 3 hours, but my license suspension was lifted. I went to the DMV the next day--had to take the written test, eye test (no driving test though) and all was fine. California DMV: incompetent idiots.


Exact same thing happened to me. DMV screwed up, didn't show receipt of my proof of insurance from AAA. A royal PITA. I went a year on a suspended license.

Anothercoilgun
06-28-2010, 8:03 PM
Nothing more dangerous than someone who think's he's doing God's Work.
NTM

Ultimate disrespect.

Ogolden1
06-28-2010, 8:19 PM
no I never saw the judge after they let me go. From what I understand, you do need to go a hearing in front of a judge. that never happened...now what I signed upon release, I have no idea as I signed whatever they threw in front of me.

According to the posted link regarding 5150:

Before discharging you, the facility staff must notify you that you cannot possess or purchase firearms for a period of five years. At the same time, the staff must advise you of your right to go to court and ask a judge to restore your right to possess and purchase firearms.
________________________________________

Art, do you remember them telling you about this?

Was it just a regular hospital or did you get transferred to a mental health facility?
________________________________________

The other thing that doesn't make sense is that he went there VOLUNTARILY!

duldej
06-28-2010, 9:32 PM
penal code 12021 states that you've got to be notified by doj if your prohibited status but it states also (pc 12021) that not being notified does not constitute a defense so probably the same holds for wic laws.

just because you were not notified is not a defense in and of itself. if the feds, for instance, have you down for 5250 then still you're going to have to reckon with them.

my feeling is that art's case (op) is just 5150 that either needs to get cleared-up (first) or where the statute (5150) has not run-out yet.

maybe the doj knows that it's the feds that are doing it and not doj: ca.

both 5150 and 5250 entails 5 years restrictions (2a) so far as the state of california goes, remember, please, but 5150 has no bearing on the feds where 5250 does (entail a lifelong ban) federal (again) and not state per se.

Devilinbp
06-28-2010, 10:24 PM
were you denied or was it put on hold? mine specifically says "prohibited" :confused:

Mine said "on hold" iirc

dunc289
06-29-2010, 1:11 AM
Damn ive always carried a base ball bat on the back seat, i had no idea this could be construded in a different way by the police. let alone there being a law against it. Sounds like something you would only hear of in England. Just crazy!

Hope you get your DOJ issues sorted.

In England, the Police call the citizens "Sir" not the other way around.

Never heard of anyone losing $5000 for having a bat in the car though.