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dragonbait1a
06-26-2010, 10:31 AM
Having never been arrested (and I intend to keep that record) I have no idea what happens after one is arrested. Especially if one is unable to retain a lawyer.

Hypothetical scenario:
A person gets pulled over, police see locked rifle case, do a loaded check and mistakenly think that a law is broken (loaded mags=loaded, OLL=AW, the reason is irrelevant, it's just to get to the point of the story). Person is arrested, clams up and asks for a lawyer.

I assume after processing that they'd get the "one phone call." Typically this call would go to the family ("Hey, I'm in jail, send lawyers and bail") or lawyer. But what if one cannot afford a lawyer and needs to use a Public Defender? Does the Public Defender contact you? How does one ask for one without violating "remain silent?"

I don't ever expect to have this happen to me, but A summary of what happens after arrest, especially for those without the resources for a lawyer seems to be a useful thing. I'm sure it's not like on TV...

RGB

SteveH
06-26-2010, 10:59 AM
State law allows you three non-collect telephone calls withen 3 hours of your arrest. They usually occur before booking.

During booking you will see someone who will assign bail based upon the uniform bail schedule, your priors, age, address, occupation, residency status ect. Most first time offenders booked for non-violent wobblers are released on own recognansance.

Once bail is assigned and booking is complete you will have access to phones. Bail agents and criminal defense attornies do accept collect calls from jail.

If for some reason you dont post bail you will appear pro per at arraignment and the judge will either give you time to get an attorny or assign a public defender. There are some excellent public defenders but they are only free to bums, illegals and college kids living off mom and dad. Everyone else will pay something based on their assets/income.

Some crooks who have been through the system several times will negotiate with the DA at arraignment on their own. "I'll plead down to disturbing the peace right now in exchange for credit time served and one year of informal probation."

obeygiant
06-26-2010, 11:08 AM
If you haven't already, take a look at the Testimonial that Gene posted earlier here (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=315338)

tyrist
06-26-2010, 11:29 AM
There is a large sign with the public defenders office phone number right next to the phone in the jail.

HokeySon
06-26-2010, 11:49 AM
a little more info (for state court proceedings, I do not not how the feds work): when you arrive for arraignment, and you do not have a lawyer, you will be asked if you wish to defend yourself or want to be represented by the public defender. If you respond that you want the PD, you will be asked to fill out a form to verify that you are eligible. You are only entitled to a PD if you cannot afford a prvt lawyer. In fact, if you obtain the services of the PD and it is later determined that you have the ability to pay for a lawyer, you will be required to reimburse the govt somme amount.

The arraignment PDs can either be assigned to handle the case personally from that point through trial or represent you at the plea stage then hand off the case to someone else for prelims or pretrial matters or trial.

I admire PDs. They work in a system where everything is against them, they have very limited time and other resources and even their clients presume they are second rate. In fact, some of the best criminal trial lawyers are or have been PDs. Everyday they stand between the govt and accused individuals to protect their rights. Very noble.

duldej
06-26-2010, 7:06 PM
i've been arrested before. when that happens i plan only to plead "not-guilty" during the arraignment and might represent myself.
also i ask the judge to please grant me or because, and presuming i'm defending myself, i have adequate access to the law library or whichever reasonable (outside) resources that i need to defend myself.
factotum: i've found that the los angeles superior court, for one, can be inimical to pro-per defendants.
i think they take the "no special priviledges to non-lawyer defendants" clause maybe too literally.

Ron-Solo
06-26-2010, 11:19 PM
In the LE community, we have a name for people who represent themselves. They usually earn the name "convict"

I'm not trying to be a smart_____ here. Don't play with your freedom. When accused of any crime that can cause you to lose your freedom, don't play lawyer. It seldom ends well. Even attorneys get a lawyer when they are accused of a crime.

You won't see a public defender until you have appeared in court and the judge appoints them, and if you have the means to pay, you will get a bill from the county for their services.

I wouldn't take too muck stock in what is said by someone who has more than one arrest and represents themselves in court. Ask yourself, what's wrong with that picture?

Proverb: He who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

bwiese
06-27-2010, 12:21 AM
i've been arrested before. when that happens i plan only to plead "not-guilty" during the arraignment and might represent myself.
also i ask the judge to please grant me or because, and presuming i'm defending myself, i have adequate access to the law library or whichever reasonable (outside) resources that i need to defend myself.

OMFG.

This has "DOUBLE FAIL" written all over it...

dantodd
06-27-2010, 12:28 AM
OMFG.

This has "DOUBLE FAIL" written all over it...

Well said, as usual. Would that be considered a repeat defender?

CP562
06-27-2010, 1:20 AM
i've been arrested before. when that happens i plan only to plead "not-guilty" during the arraignment and might represent myself.
also i ask the judge to please grant me or because, and presuming i'm defending myself, i have adequate access to the law library or whichever reasonable (outside) resources that i need to defend myself.
factotum: i've found that the los angeles superior court, for one, can be inimical to pro-per defendants.
i think they take the "no special priviledges to non-lawyer defendants" clause maybe too literally.

:confused: Translation anyone?

OMFG.

This has "DOUBLE FAIL" written all over it...

I guess that's about the best one could expect to do with that.

:rofl2::90::rofl2::90:

snobord99
06-27-2010, 10:26 PM
:confused: Translation anyone?

When you opt to represent yourself, you're waiving your right to an attorney. When you waive that right, they have to advise you of the consequences of waiving that right, one of which is that they're going to treat you like a lawyer. They're not going to take it easy on you just because you're not a lawyer.

For example, if a lawyer fails to object in time, the objection is waived. If you fail to make an objection which would have kept the only evidence that leads to your conviction out because you didn't know you should have objected, your conviction isn't going to be overturned just because you didn't know you should have objected. You waived the objection like any lawyer would have.

stitchnicklas
06-27-2010, 10:56 PM
always hire a attorney,public defenders are jokes and 9/10 times you will get screwed an d left for dead

snobord99
06-28-2010, 8:52 AM
always hire a attorney,public defenders are jokes and 9/10 times you will get screwed an d left for dead

Actually, a LOT of PDs are great lawyers. They're just WAAAAAAAY overworked and stretched super thin so they can't spend nearly as much time on a case as private counsel could.

Whiskey_Sauer
06-28-2010, 10:44 AM
Actually, a LOT of PDs are great lawyers. They're just WAAAAAAAY overworked and stretched super thin so they can't spend nearly as much time on a case as private counsel could.

Agree, completely.

Pros of Representation by a Public Defender:

1. No (or minimal) cost to you;

2. Good advocacy, particularly at trial;

3. Knows the judges and the prosecutors (deals with them on a daily basis), probably able to give you the straight scoop on the reasonableness of the prosecutor's offer, and your chances at trial, even better than a private attorney; and

4. Knows the procedural law better than almost anyone else.

Cons:

1. You are one of well over 100 names on a file in his/her filing cabinet;

2. Can't usually get to do intensive fact investigation until you're close to trial;

3. Your case is going to get continued a lot, unless you're in custody.

ohsmily
06-28-2010, 11:04 AM
always hire a attorney,public defenders are jokes and 9/10 times you will get screwed an d left for dead

That is nonsense. Every county is different. Yes, all the PDs are overworked but some are amazing lawyers. Think how much trial experience they get compared to most private attorneys. I am a private criminal defense attorney and most of the public defenders in the local offices have literally ten times the number of trials that I have. There are of course, many advantages to hiring a private attorney IF you hire a good one. Many private defense attorneys out there are full of it and just take your money to plead you out. At an early stage of the case, don't expect to get much help from the public defender. However, once your case is set for trial, the trial PDs have fewer cases and will have some time to meet with you and discuss the case/strategy ,etc.

In any case, they are not "jokes." I agree that at the earliest stage of the proceedings, most PDs simply don't have the time to give an in depth look at your case and will be leaning more toward negotiating a quick plea IF the DA is reasonable about it.

ohsmily
06-28-2010, 11:05 AM
Agree, completely.

Pros of Representation by a Public Defender:

1. No (or minimal) cost to you;

2. Good advocacy, particularly at trial;

3. Knows the judges and the prosecutors (deals with them on a daily basis), probably able to give you the straight scoop on the reasonableness of the prosecutor's offer, and your chances at trial, even better than a private attorney; and

4. Knows the procedural law better than almost anyone else.

Cons:

1. You are one of well over 100 names on a file in his/her filing cabinet;

2. Can't usually get to do intensive fact investigation until you're close to trial;

3. Your case is going to get continued a lot, unless you're in custody.

+1 to someone who knows of what he speaks.

stitchnicklas
06-28-2010, 11:17 AM
That is nonsense. Every county is different. Yes, all the PDs are overworked but some are amazing lawyers. Think how much trial experience they get compared to most private attorneys. I am a private criminal defense attorney and most of the public defenders in the local offices have literally ten times the number of trials that I have. There are of course, many advantages to hiring a private attorney IF you hire a good one. Many private defense attorneys out there are full of it and just take your money to plead you out. At an early stage of the case, don't expect to get much help from the public defender. However, once your case is set for trial, the trial PDs have fewer cases and will have some time to meet with you and discuss the case/strategy ,etc.

In any case, they are not "jokes." I agree that at the earliest stage of the proceedings, most PDs simply don't have the time to give an in depth look at your case and will be leaning more toward negotiating a quick plea IF the DA is reasonable about it.

well i know for FACT that riverside county pd office is lazy jackholes,they screwed me ten years ago on a case and it cost me 3 grand when it was a obvious screw job case,when the da comes to you in court saying i will hit you as hard as legally possible in front of your lawyer,and your lawyer(pd) scrugs their shoulders and says oh well...........that is what you get for free,so i absolutely know what the hell i am talking about.there is no greater injustice then sitting in a dui class for something that was not dui and having to do community service and pay a damn fine

paul0660
06-28-2010, 11:23 AM
I think a well informed calgunner, with the above referenced PD, would be a powerful team to defend a case based on the OP's idea of an arrest based on a misinterpretation of the law.

Next question, if a cop screws up that much, does the OP get to sue?

Whiskey_Sauer
06-28-2010, 11:27 AM
well i know for FACT that riverside county pd office is lazy jackholes,they screwed me ten years ago on a case and it cost me 3 grand when it was a obvious screw job case,when the da comes to you in court saying i will hit you as hard as legally possible in front of your lawyer,and your lawyer(pd) scrugs their shoulders and says oh well...........that is what you get for free,so i absolutely know what the hell i am talking about.there is no greater injustice then sitting in a dui class for something that was not dui and having to do community service and pay a damn fine

Did you plead guilty/no contest, or were you convicted after a jury trial? (I won't hold it against you if you refuse to answer this question, but it might help to illuminate the experience which you described.)

motorhead
06-28-2010, 11:41 AM
in most cases your phone call(s) will be made in a phone tank while waiting to be booked. concentrate on bailing out! your chances for reaching a lawyer on a jail phone are minimal.

andalusi
06-28-2010, 1:43 PM
well i know for FACT that riverside county pd office is lazy jackholes,they screwed me ten years ago on a case and it cost me 3 grand when it was a obvious screw job case,when the da comes to you in court saying i will hit you as hard as legally possible in front of your lawyer,and your lawyer(pd) scrugs their shoulders and says oh well...........that is what you get for free,so i absolutely know what the hell i am talking about.there is no greater injustice then sitting in a dui class for something that was not dui and having to do community service and pay a damn fine

One bad personal experience ten years ago... yeah, that certainly qualifies you to assess the quality and integrity of every public defender who's ever practiced. :rolleyes:

stitchnicklas
06-28-2010, 2:24 PM
Did you plead guilty/no contest, or were you convicted after a jury trial? (I won't hold it against you if you refuse to answer this question, but it might help to illuminate the experience which you described.)

faced with 16days c-service vs.365 days-----$1050 fine vs. 4000----among other things i took a plea deal since it was 1 and only offense and the public defenders office was screwing me.
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and to the other guy harping ,guess what the op was asking experiences and i gave mine with a critique of that office,go harp some where else

snobord99
06-28-2010, 3:45 PM
faced with 16days c-service vs.365 days-----$1050 fine vs. 4000----among other things i took a plea deal since it was 1 and only offense and the public defenders office was screwing me.

So between a bad deal and a REALLY bad deal, YOU chose the bad deal but blame them for it? You pled out. No one can FORCE you to take the plea, so how is it their fault that you made your choice?

I'm not saying this to be an *** (I know it sounds that way). I'm just curious why your choice was someone else's fault.

joedogboy
06-28-2010, 3:55 PM
After an unfortunate misunderstanding with the police in TX (misunderstanding was related to a consent search that I naively allowed), my public defender was able to get the charges dropped, and have the DA get me a court order to release my firearm back to me.

At that point in my life, I was in no position to hire an attorney on my own, and my court appointed lawyer did okay by me.

Ron-Solo
06-28-2010, 10:33 PM
I have been in LE for 32 years, and 10+ of those involved working directly with the courts. I have met HUNDREDS of fine attorneys who work for the PD. While we were on opposite sides of the case, I respected them for their professionalism and dedication to their clients, even when it was clear they were guilty as sin. They still made sure they got a FAIR shake in court, which is what it is all about.

Sadly, PD's are grossly overworked, but they believe in what they do.

Stop bashing the PD's, it is not justified and is unbecoming of a Calgunner.

NEVER represent yourself!

Mulay El Raisuli
06-29-2010, 5:50 AM
I think a well informed calgunner, with the above referenced PD, would be a powerful team to defend a case based on the OP's idea of an arrest based on a misinterpretation of the law.


That's my thinking also. Also, keep in mind that a PD will follow YOUR lead. If you're guilty as sin & looking for the best deal you can get, then THAT is what the PD will provide. But, if you're an innocent man, and if you make it VERY clear to the PD that you will not knuckle under, then the PD will fight for you. Such at least is my experience.


Next question, if a cop screws up that much, does the OP get to sue?


Nope. Unless its something REAL obvious (like the Rodney King beating) you haven't got a prayer.


The Raisuli