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1911Operator
06-25-2010, 11:56 PM
hey guys, so I know that I should be going about 400-500 rounds before cleaning out my guns. but , being in the ARMY for 3 years its a habit to clean after every range trip! I have a SA 1911 and a Glock. here is how I clean my guns:

My SD Operator (light weight frame) 1911 will go about 400+ rounds before I get my first jam. it normally happens on the barrel ramp if it ever jams. other then that there's no problems with anything else. I now shot copper plated rounds, but before I used to shot FMJ's (not fully sealed like TMJ's) and would have lead deposits that are hard to get out, so I got a stainless bore brush and push it though the barrel after every range. then a copper brush to finish off the job. I run some solvents, also clean the rails on the frame and slide. I have taken it fully apart before but that was when I hit the 3k round count. I am soon to take it all the way down after another 1.5k or so because ill be at the 6k round count by then.

Now for my Glock 26 (1k round count), I just take the slide off and clean barrel, slide, and frame. also wipe down the areas with a q-tip and solvent. I just run a copper bore brush on it. and today I got a bore snake too (for those im too lazy to break open my cleaning kit days). I know Glocks can go for ever before you have to clean them but its just fun to take down and make sure its all clean. gives me a comforting feeling that its not going to have any problems.

So am I doing any damage by running a stainless bore brush in my 1911? FYI: SA makes all their components with forged parts, so I figured it wouldnt harm it. but I could be wrong. any input would be appreciated! thanks guys!

bjl333
06-26-2010, 12:32 AM
Many people from many moons ago have told me never run a steel brush down the tube, same people told me only brass brushes are to be used !!! Metal to metal ... no goooood !!
For many moons I have used nothing but brass brushes and Hoppe's #9 (still stinks after many many moons) !!!

supertrooper
06-26-2010, 12:38 AM
i think that you should be fine, the stainless in those brushs seem kind of soft. if yor wrorried use brass.

Mr_Monkeywrench
06-26-2010, 12:48 AM
I have a G21SF and Ive put around 1000+ rounds through it and I shoot at 50 and 100 rounds per range trip. I clean that bad boy after EVERY trip and Ive had no troubles. PS I use Break Free and brass brushes, and CLP and Im GTG

cineski
06-26-2010, 7:07 AM
After reading your post, I scratch my head and wonder who taught you such things? Why exactly should you be going 4-500 rounds before cleaning? Cleaning your guns is good for them, not bad. I personally would never use a steel brush. That may damage your barrel. Use nylon or brass and clean your guns regularly. A clean gun is a happy gun. Oh, and listen to your army training.

xxINKxx
06-26-2010, 7:29 AM
I clean my guns after every range trip. If I dont shoot alot, its just a quick 5 min wipe down at least.. Hey it may be overkill if the gun is hardley dirty, but I know my guns are in tip top shape, and it makes for good practice to work on guns and know the gun like the back of your hand the more time you spend with it. If you have the time, and are bored with nothing else to do, and it doesnt bother you go for it. Wont hurt anything. Also I only use brass for the barrels.

littlejake
06-26-2010, 7:38 AM
Those brushes are actually bronze, not brass.

Just don't reverse a brush in a barrel.

GSG222
06-26-2010, 8:16 AM
I clean my guns after every range trip. I don't like the idea of leaving burnt and unburnt powder and my own fingerprints/grease/sweat all over it. Frequent cleaning won't hurt the gun; however, aggressive (frequent or not) cleaning will. I personally would never use a steel brush. It may not be a big deal if you only used it a few times, but it's definitely not a good idea. You may not see any immediate damage to the surface, but those tiny little scratches will open doors to problems in the long run.

4-500 rds is a guideline that may be misleading - for an avid shooter, it may be a couple range trips within days, while it may take an infrequent shooter a couple years to finish that. Never a good idea to leave the gun dirty for a long time. Sometimes even a fingerprint on the slide can become permanent.

nn3453
06-26-2010, 8:19 AM
Guns don't need to be cleaned after every 50 rounds you shoot. The military enforces it for disclipline and giving the grunts something to do. Steel brushes are not necessary to clean lead, avoid them. A cleaner gun makes you feel better, but functionally unless it is dirty enough so it doesn't cycle or accuracy will be affected, it is not necessary.

oddjob
06-26-2010, 8:22 AM
http://www.schuemann.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=3zZ4oir3t50%3d&tabid=67&mid=445

This may answer your questions. I use these barrels in some of my "race" guns. I tend to follow this advice.

I heard Will Schuemann speak once at a match to some other folks. I asked a friend if this guy was some kind of rocket scientist. Turns out he was!! He worked for NASA!!

glockwise2000
06-26-2010, 8:22 AM
I clean my guns too after every range trip. It is a good habit to have your beloved guns to be in tip top shape and in ready condition after your range time. You never know when you have to use it in emergency situation. You don't want it jamming when that time comes. IMO

jdewolf
06-26-2010, 9:15 AM
You completely ruined your G26...

Quick sell it to me and I'll rehab her :D

calishine
06-26-2010, 9:18 AM
I clean my guns too after every range trip. It is a good habit to have your beloved guns to be in tip top shape and in ready condition after your range time. You never know when you have to use it in emergency situation. You don't want it jamming when that time comes. IMO

+1

I would also stay away from steel brushes. Stick with the bronze. With proper cleaning solutions, it will definitely get the job done.

punisheryayarea
06-26-2010, 9:37 AM
I have a Glock 30sf and a Kimber ultra carry II I dont go to the range unless I have 250rd to shoot throw each...... Clean after every range trip, STILL trust the Glock with my life.......

SixPointEight
06-26-2010, 9:50 AM
http://www.schuemann.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=3zZ4oir3t50%3d&tabid=67&mid=445

This may answer your questions. I use these barrels in some of my "race" guns. I tend to follow this advice.

I heard Will Schuemann speak once at a match to some other folks. I asked a friend if this guy was some kind of rocket scientist. Turns out he was!! He worked for NASA!!

That would make sense in a stainless barrel. But in a chrome lined or other barrel I would say you're just fine running brass(bronze) brushes down them. With that said, a clean bore isn't necessary for a gun to work properly. If you aren't shooting corrossive ammo, you wouldn't hurt the gun a bit to clean everything but the bore. (Disclaimer: If you're getting leading, you may want to actually clean that out)

Sajedene
06-26-2010, 9:58 AM
I've had people tell me - clean your gun after every range trip. Then there are those that tell me "OMG YOU HAVE A GLOCK THAT THING WORKS BETTER DIRTY!"

So I don't know. I still clean it after every range trip - but I don't freak out if I miss a session. And I enjoy cleaning. Oh, and I never use steel brushes.

CSACANNONEER
06-26-2010, 10:01 AM
I used to think that SS brushes were a bad thing. Then, I watched Lee Rasmussen cleaning his guns. He uses SS brushes and patches with RED JB paste. He will reverse a brush in the tube (short stroke it). It is harder on the brush but does not do any damage to the bore. If you don't know who I'm talking about, you can see how well he and his guns shoot here: http://www.fcsa.org/wwwroot/visitors/worldrecords.php

As far as handguns go, I don't worry about cleaning them until they are dirty.

Just remember that most barrels that become trash due to cleaning are only trash because, the crown was damaged. Protect your crown and you will be fine.

OneSevenDeuce
06-26-2010, 10:06 AM
I'm with the OP on the obsessive cleaning habits they teach you in the military. I honestly don't think it's a bad thing as long as it's done properly. I remember one time I found one of my soldiers cleaning his SAW with a folding knife. He was trying to scrape what he thought was rust off of the gas tube. In fact he was starting to shave into the metal. I was like "Oh my god! Stop!"

Brian2217
06-26-2010, 10:09 AM
Brass and Number 9 Hoppe's and a little bit of oil or lube and I clean every time I shoot. I have to agree, A clean gun is a happy gun:o

Black Majik
06-26-2010, 10:27 AM
Cleaning the gun after every range trip is a great habit. If you do it, keep doing it.

Lazy butts like me stare at a pile of dirty guns wondering why I bother cleaning it when it'll just get dirty in the next 6 days. Either way, it doesn't matter since guns can handle it, but if you do clean it after every range trip.... keep doing it.

Btw, what malfunction did you experience with your Operator at 400 rounds? FTF, FTE, FTRB? It should still keep going past 400 easily.

windrunner
06-26-2010, 10:28 AM
Simple axiom to follow: If you shoot the hell out of it, then clean the hell out of it.

No need to super clean a handgun if you have only fired a marginal amount of rounds through it. Anyone who lacks confidence in whether their handgun can handle some abuse, should maybe look into a better handgun. Handguns are grinders, plain and simple.

In regard to bore brushes, I don't know about the rest of you, but I have never seen a bore brush that was made out of a stronger material than the barrel of my gun.

If you haven't seen this before, you'll be entertained by this guy's project.
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90

GSG222
06-26-2010, 12:07 PM
If you haven't seen this before, you'll be entertained by this guy's project.
http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90
That looks crazy - I wouldn't be brave enough to fire a gun in that condition.
It's a matter of time to get a KB:nono:

1911Operator
06-26-2010, 12:08 PM
I get a FTL! i dont know if its in the mag or ramp, or maybe a combination. I have plenty of mags but only take one to the range with me. I like to give my guns a cool down period while I reload the mag i just used. then keep shooting. and around 400 rounds ill get a round that jams and it points straight up or jams itself into the bottom of the feeding ramp. and when i look in there, the ramp is completely black with a small trail where the rounds scrape off the carbon while they feed into the barrel.

Cleaning the gun after every range trip is a great habit. If you do it, keep doing it.

Lazy butts like me stare at a pile of dirty guns wondering why I bother cleaning it when it'll just get dirty in the next 6 days. Either way, it doesn't matter since guns can handle it, but if you do clean it after every range trip.... keep doing it.

Btw, what malfunction did you experience with your Operator at 400 rounds? FTF, FTE, FTRB? It should still keep going past 400 easily.

Turbinator
06-26-2010, 1:40 PM
In regard to bore brushes, I don't know about the rest of you, but I have never seen a bore brush that was made out of a stronger material than the barrel of my gun.


I could be mistaken but I've personally had a stainless steel bore brush leave scratches in a barrel I was cleaning religiously. Therefore, from personal experience, I think it certainly is possible to damage a barrel if you're overdoing the cleaning.

Turby

jdg30
06-26-2010, 2:07 PM
After reading your post, I scratch my head and wonder who taught you such things? Why exactly should you be going 4-500 rounds before cleaning? Cleaning your guns is good for them, not bad. I personally would never use a steel brush. That may damage your barrel. Use nylon or brass and clean your guns regularly. A clean gun is a happy gun. Oh, and listen to your army training.

Exactly what I was thinking. I clean my guns every time after I shoot them. It may be a quick cleaning after shooting only a few rounds or a more thorough cleaning after shooting more but they get cleaned either way. To me guns are an expensive investment and I like to take care of them. I always hear people saying that they hardly clean their guns and I think it is either ignorance or just laziness. Everything that you take care of will last you longer and function better in the long run.

As for steel brushes, I would just use standard brass brushes with the appropriate gun cleaner. I use Hoppe's 9, Breakfree CLP, Kroil, old toothbrushes, Q-tips, bore snakes, brass bore brushes, nylon bore brushes, patches and old t-shirt scraps and my guns all come out immaculate.

windrunner
06-26-2010, 2:26 PM
I could be mistaken but I've personally had a stainless steel bore brush leave scratches in a barrel I was cleaning religiously. Therefore, from personal experience, I think it certainly is possible to damage a barrel if you're overdoing the cleaning.

Turby
You were (are) using the wrong bore brush. Stainless steel bore brushes are only used for severely fouled, rusted or leaded barrels. They are not meant for continuous, normal usage. Frankly, I don't know anyone that ever uses them, nor have I ever used a stainless steel bore brush myself. Brass or nylon should be more than adequate for the usual cleaning.

joedogboy
06-26-2010, 6:01 PM
If you are doing a detail strip that includes knocking out pins, you could end up with loose pins if you do it too much.

I would stay away from steel on steel when cleaning.

Other than that, the more often you clean, the better. Of course, there is a difference between a light/minimal cleaning and a serious/heavy/thorough cleaning.

I am a big fan of boresnakes, and will frequently use them to do a minimal barrel cleaning between serious cleaning jobs. Keeping moving parts cleaned and "properly" lubed (which will vary depending on climate and storage conditions) is very important, as is having a clean bolt face (and the feed ramp on a 1911).

Turbinator
06-26-2010, 11:24 PM
You were (are) using the wrong bore brush. Stainless steel bore brushes are only used for severely fouled, rusted or leaded barrels. They are not meant for continuous, normal usage. Frankly, I don't know anyone that ever uses them, nor have I ever used a stainless steel bore brush myself. Brass or nylon should be more than adequate for the usual cleaning.

You are right.

I have stopped using stainless steel and stick to bronze bore brushes from now on.

I have a couple of stainless brushes still brand new, just in case, but have no plans to use them right now.

Turby

skyadrenaline
06-27-2010, 7:12 AM
I was told to not take the slide off my Glock too much to clean it, as that would loosen the tolerances. Anybody care to comment on that?

SixPointEight
06-27-2010, 8:08 AM
I was told to not take the slide off my Glock too much to clean it, as that would loosen the tolerances. Anybody care to comment on that?

FUD. How is moving the slide to take it off going to wear the weapon any more than the slide moving while firing it?

GSG222
06-27-2010, 8:30 AM
I was told to not take the slide off my Glock too much to clean it, as that would loosen the tolerances. Anybody care to comment on that?

I can see how there might be some truth to it. Taking the slide off and putting it back on is different from the slide moving on the rails. The latter is a fast yet very smooth glide (yes it feels rough but the rails are not taking that force). If you're not carefull when putting a slide back on the rails, you can easily bend them out of alignment; and if you do it TOO often, even if you're careful, it may still loosen the tolerance. Ever noticed that you have to use a little effort and force to get the front rails into the slide? Well you might be changing the tolerance right there. I think this is especially a potential problem with Glock vs 1911, as the latter has full length rails rather than 4 short stretches.

In short, not a big concern, but just be careful. Overdoing anything is generally not a good idea.

SixPointEight
06-27-2010, 8:39 AM
I'm still not buying it. If you had polishing compound or nothing in the rails, then taking the slide off may wear the weapon and loosen tolerances. But if they're kept lubricated, there will be minimal metal-metal contacts, and, IMO minimal wear.

Take the slide off. Clean your gun.

GSG222
06-27-2010, 8:53 AM
It's the bending/knocking that is associate with the process. I don't know others but I often have to try a couple times to get the slide back on the rails, and then as I push it futher back, I usually have to rock it a little to get it moving. These movements all involve slight bending to the rails and MAY lead to tolerance issues in the long run. With that said, it is only a legitmate concern if one does A LOT OF cleaning, or forces the slide on in an abusive manner.

Once A Marine
06-27-2010, 10:43 AM
Firearms are designed to be "field stripped" - taking a slide off a handgun will not cause undue wear.

A quick, general wipe down/relube/inspect cleaning is perfect after firing. Wipe off the residue, scrub/scrape build up, run a few patches down the bore, inspect for burrs, cracks, excessive wear, then lightly lube will not cause problems.

jdg30
06-27-2010, 11:11 AM
I was told to not take the slide off my Glock too much to clean it, as that would loosen the tolerances. Anybody care to comment on that?


Reading the Owner's Manual for the Glock should clear that up.

xLusi0n
06-27-2010, 11:22 AM
Reading the Owner's Manual for the Glock should clear that up.

Glock manual says to take the slide off to clean it. But they only say that to make you wear out your Glock faster so you buy more :D jk

walter
06-27-2010, 5:22 PM
its a gun who cares you know how much pressure on exploding round is.. way more than any brush you can stick in the barrel with your hand

jdg30
06-27-2010, 8:57 PM
I can see how there might be some truth to it. Taking the slide off and putting it back on is different from the slide moving on the rails. The latter is a fast yet very smooth glide (yes it feels rough but the rails are not taking that force). If you're not carefull when putting a slide back on the rails, you can easily bend them out of alignment; and if you do it TOO often, even if you're careful, it may still loosen the tolerance. Ever noticed that you have to use a little effort and force to get the front rails into the slide? Well you might be changing the tolerance right there. I think this is especially a potential problem with Glock vs 1911, as the latter has full length rails rather than 4 short stretches.

In short, not a big concern, but just be careful. Overdoing anything is generally not a good idea.

Sorry but this paragraph makes no sense to me. Not to be offensive but I don't know how this is advise is relevant about field stripping a Glock or any other gun.

Josh3239
06-27-2010, 9:01 PM
Yikes! I heard some horror stories from a (I think Marine) armorer about the condition of some of the rifles in the armory. Some are so badly beat to h*ll from excessive cleaning and the scrapping and picking with knives and things.

I'm with the OP on the obsessive cleaning habits they teach you in the military. I honestly don't think it's a bad thing as long as it's done properly. I remember one time I found one of my soldiers cleaning his SAW with a folding knife. He was trying to scrape what he thought was rust off of the gas tube. In fact he was starting to shave into the metal. I was like "Oh my god! Stop!"

jdg30
06-27-2010, 9:10 PM
It's the bending/knocking that is associate with the process. I don't know others but I often have to try a couple times to get the slide back on the rails, and then as I push it futher back, I usually have to rock it a little to get it moving. These movements all involve slight bending to the rails and MAY lead to tolerance issues in the long run. With that said, it is only a legitmate concern if one does A LOT OF cleaning, or forces the slide on in an abusive manner.

From the Glock Owner's manual: Frequency of Servicing: To ensure the most reliable functioning of your Glock pistol, you should follw a regularly scheduled maintence program......Your Glock pistol should be field stripped, cleaned and lubricated as follows: 1. when brand new, before the first time it is fired, PLUS
2.at least once a month, PLUS
3. after each time it is fired, PLUS
4. as required. This will be determined by the pistol's exposure to adverse conditions such as rain, snow, perspiration, salt water, dirt, dust, lint, etc.

GSG222
07-01-2010, 4:19 PM
From the Glock Owner's manual: Frequency of Servicing: To ensure the most reliable functioning of your Glock pistol, you should follw a regularly scheduled maintence program......Your Glock pistol should be field stripped, cleaned and lubricated as follows: 1. when brand new, before the first time it is fired, PLUS
2.at least once a month, PLUS
3. after each time it is fired, PLUS
4. as required. This will be determined by the pistol's exposure to adverse conditions such as rain, snow, perspiration, salt water, dirt, dust, lint, etc.
Advice #4 is where one can potentially over do it and end up harming the gun. As I said, I only see the potential risk of over-cleaning, trying to make sense out of the original statement. I don't think this is something that most glock owners need to worry about, myself included. The bottomline is every time you clean or fire the gun you are doing some damage to it, and you want to make sure it's overweighed by the associated benefit.

Cobrafreak
07-01-2010, 10:32 PM
Do you clean your gun with a sand blaster?