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View Full Version : Is Model 1 Sales THAT bad?


Z ME FLY
06-25-2010, 8:25 PM
Just wondering since I am looking for an AR pistol upper. Ideally what I want is a 7.5 in 5.56 barrel chrome lined, with an A2 carry handle. I have read good and bad things about Model 1 sales, is it just a roll of the dice with them?

If I get the upper from them I should get the bcg from BCM yeah? I am looking for something in the $400-500 range. Ideally I want a Kitty Kat Upper with the Carry Handle but can't find those.

and yes I have a pistol lower so don't worry I'm going to follow all the laws

technique
06-25-2010, 8:38 PM
In my opinion, yes.

I see a lot of the "low end" brands in my day to day life. I can tell you that the chambers are really bad and are never consistent. It's like they use the same reamer for LONG periods of time. By the time the reamer is worn the cambers are just crap, that makes buying a gamble. Maybe good, maybe bad.

Gas ports are often out of spec (over or under sized) and even drilled in to the grooves.

When you chuck the barrels up and turn them in the lathe you can see with the naked eye the threads aren't concentric to the bore, no need to even pull the gauge out.


Just a few of the things I've noticed...we're only talkin barrels here, much more can be said.

dachan
06-25-2010, 8:39 PM
Is Model 1 Sales THAT bad?

Better question to ask yourself, is it worth $100 more (from what you're willing to pay) for a RRA, DPMS or Spikes? Or maybe $150 more for a BCM? IMO, yes.

PolishMike
06-25-2010, 8:46 PM
I've sold more than a few uppers to people who bought M1S uppers and had to chuck em

Z ME FLY
06-25-2010, 8:49 PM
Better question to ask yourself, is it worth $100 more (from what you're willing to pay) for a RRA, DPMS or Spikes? Or maybe $150 more for a BCM? IMO, yes.

How are the DPMS kitty kat uppers? I just cant find one with the carry handle only flat top

grunz
06-25-2010, 9:01 PM
No its not worth it. Short barrel ARs are notoriously finicky and you take an even greater risk by purchasing one from low-quality source like M1S that makes crap 16 inch guns to start out with... Don't waste your money on M1S.

Also, I gotta ask - why do you want a fixed carry handle upper with A2 adjustable target sights on a 7.5 inch pistol? The A2 sight system was designed by the USMC for use on 20 inch rifles and fire out to 600 meters or more. Its useless and overkill on your gun and you probably wont even be able to properly zero the thing given the short sight radius between front ad rear sights. Please consider a railed flat top receiver - this will give you options.

Sorry to bust your chops sir, but have you really thought this through?

phish
06-25-2010, 9:07 PM
Model 1 is the BBK of AR parts

Z ME FLY
06-25-2010, 9:09 PM
so then i ask how about the dpms kitty kat upper? there is little to no info on calguns google about this..

dachan
06-25-2010, 10:31 PM
so then i ask how about the dpms kitty kat upper? there is little to no info on calguns google about this..

Kitty Kat is a fine upper, but DPMS delivery times are a real mess. You can try Google, and search for BA-A2AS-07 to find a 7" A2 upper. I agree though that you'll be better off with an A3 upper; if you want to use A2 sights, just attach an A2 carry handle, otherwise you can mount the optic of your choice. Also don't limit yourself with DPMS, you can custom order from RRA and Spikes and have only a 3-4 week wait.

Z ME FLY
06-25-2010, 10:41 PM
Kitty Kat is a fine upper, but DPMS delivery times are a real mess. You can try Google, and search for BA-A2AS-07 to find a 7" A2 upper. I agree though that you'll be better off with an A3 upper; if you want to use A2 sights, just attach an A2 carry handle, otherwise you can mount the optic of your choice. Also don't limit yourself with DPMS, you can custom order from RRA and Spikes and have only a 3-4 week wait.

I can tell you one thing.. All of this is really confusing with the different options. I have been looking at PKfirearms, ftfindustries, gunbroker, ARF. I'm not a huge fan of the rails but I guess that's what most of them come with when it's a flat top.

This is probably the best deal I have found so far..
"Kitty-Kat-Upper-Basic
Features a 7 inch DPMS Kitty Kat barrel, chrome-lined bore and chamber. Steel front sight tower with bayonet lug and A2 Flash hider. A3 receiver and a pistol length free float tube. Includes Bolt Group Assembly and Forged Charging Handle.

These are assembled and test fired by PK Firearms.

ALL NFA RULES APPLY.


Our Price: each $475.00"

Then I have to buy a rear sight then my stuff for the lower and a pistol buffer told with a heavy spring.

I don't mind the wait... Do you can guy have any other options in the same price range? It's basically about $500 after shipping.

Rem1492
06-25-2010, 11:28 PM
YES, I had a bad experience with M1S. -$100.

Other dealers have done better and have not been around as long for two reasons.
Better quality, better SERVICE.

sniper4usmc
06-25-2010, 11:42 PM
I bought a 24" and 20'" SS bull Varmint upper ,about 10yrs ago..I never had problem with uppper......but shipping took forever 2-3month wait

slomofo
06-25-2010, 11:42 PM
There's a guy on gunbroker who sells a bunch of Kitty Kat uppers. I just bought a shorty buffer tube off of him about a month ago and noticed he has tons of Kitty kat parts. I think that'd be your best bet short of building your own because I once waited two years for DPMS to send me a rifle and ended up cancelling because it took so long. I waited almost a year for DPMS to send me a .308 rifle and they ended up sending the wrong one.

Anyway, this is the guy I'm talking about:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176241960

Pay him IMMEDIATELY after winning any of his auctions though, overnight it if you must. He filed a non-paying bidder dispute against me not too long after auction end. I think his payment arrived the day after he filed that dispute though.

Z ME FLY
06-26-2010, 2:36 AM
There's a guy on gunbroker who sells a bunch of Kitty Kat uppers. I just bought a shorty buffer tube off of him about a month ago and noticed he has tons of Kitty kat parts. I think that'd be your best bet short of building your own because I once waited two years for DPMS to send me a rifle and ended up cancelling because it took so long. I waited almost a year for DPMS to send me a .308 rifle and they ended up sending the wrong one.

Anyway, this is the guy I'm talking about:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176241960

Pay him IMMEDIATELY after winning any of his auctions though, overnight it if you must. He filed a non-paying bidder dispute against me not too long after auction end. I think his payment arrived the day after he filed that dispute though.

thanks, i saw his stuff, it's pricey... well pricey compared to what I see a pkfirearms.

Turbinator
06-26-2010, 11:36 PM
In my reading experience, avoid M1S. They got bashed pretty bad on AR15.com in the late 90's and that was enough for me to remember to never buy their stuff. Thus, I have no personal experience with M1S, but just reading the comments here lead me to believe that what I read back then was 100% right.

Turby

Z ME FLY
06-26-2010, 11:45 PM
Yeah I pretty much convinced that I should spend the extra $100 and be happy. Also my friends have convinced me to get 10.5 upper vs. the 7.5 for it to actually be useful since this my first ar. I have aks, ars never really appealed to me that much.

m1a1driver
06-27-2010, 1:18 AM
oh geeze. I ordered an upper from them last year and they said it was on backorder for 4 months! I promptly cancelled my order and bought a DPMS upper. Glad I did after reading this thread...

pacrimguru
06-27-2010, 1:58 AM
i got a compelte pistol upper from them at a gun show for $400 during the craze of '08. it seems fine to me. but then again i hardly shoot it.

Lateralus
06-27-2010, 3:07 AM
Check it out. Not the best parts, but its available and affordable.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176321065

http://images.marketworks.com/hi/58/58225/m1s-7.5a2a1.jpg

Lateralus
06-27-2010, 3:09 AM
Or even better on a budget!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=176327491

http://www.ftfindustries.com/7.5-A2-PISTOLBUFFER-1.JPG

Mail Clerk
06-27-2010, 7:25 AM
Tow years ago I bought a Model 1 upper along with a chrome bolt and carrier. They had what I wanted but I admit they were a little expensive. Anyway they had what I wanted and so they made a sale. Mine didn't come with a chrome bore/ER Shaw barrel and shot lousey groups the first time out an was extremly reliable. My suggestion is to clean it throughly as soon as you get otherwise you'll just burn up ammo for nothing. Mine took all day and about 100 patches to work on that bore. Heck.... the copper residue just kept coming out and didn't know when it would stop!!!!!!! Since you want a version that's so short I can't say anything about the accuracy you might want to achieve. Mines a shorty too but with the extra long flash surpressor and it's hard enough to get a decent group at 100 yards. It's fine for 50 but forget about 100. If you want to get an upper from them then you might consider going to the last big show in AZ as they're usually their. Good luck

Mail Clerk

Santa Cruz Armory
06-27-2010, 10:14 AM
I got lucky I guess with my 20" M1S upper. Mine is really accurate.

HCz
06-27-2010, 11:48 AM
can't say much about their products, but it seems like they had issues with credit card info compromised sometime ago.

Celicaslave
06-27-2010, 1:25 PM
I bought a 24" and 20'" SS bull Varmint upper ,about 10yrs ago..I never had problem with uppper......but shipping took forever 2-3month wait

I picked up a Model 1 Sales 20" Varmint upper about 4 years ago. The shipping was prompt and it groups really well as long as I'm not shooting any of that 62 gr BTHP from Silver Bear. It really likes PMC Bronze 55gr FMJ.

supermario
06-27-2010, 1:39 PM
If your going with a 10.5 upper, get an LMT or BCM upper, they go for $475-$485 plus a bcg that will put you around $600 otd and that will be a great pistol upper! Or find a good price on a noveske barrel, buy the A2 stripped upper and and choose your handgaurds and then send it to Randal to build? My bro in law has a Noveske 10.5 pistol and it shoots great and accurate! If you buy an LMT or BCM upper and it doesn't come with handguards, I will give you a new set of LMT handguards that I have! Like others said I wouldn't skimp on a pistol upper becus they are more finicky! I have a Diablo that shoots flawless and my bro in laws Noveske shoots flawless! I had an LMT 10.5 and it was nice too!

13Delta
06-27-2010, 5:22 PM
my first upper was a out of spec Model 1 Sales 16". sent it back,they fixed it took about 2 weeks , and its been good to me since. not the highest quality, but you get what you pay for.save yourself the trouble.

corrupt
06-27-2010, 11:23 PM
See one of my posts about having your credit card stolen if purchasing through their website. I will never do business with them again.

slomofo
06-27-2010, 11:48 PM
I haven't had the misfortune of receiving any shoddy products from them, though I've never purchased one of their .223 barrels, so I can't say. I have a 9mm barrel of theirs and it looks to be pretty good quality, but I'm unsure because I haven't shot out of it yet.

My only gripe with them is that when I purchase small parts, they always ship them out in a giant box via UPS that costs a lot more than the products I buy. I ordered an endplate and a couple springs once and they sent me a giant box with shipping charges that came out of my pocket. It's convenient that they never list shipping charges on your invoices as well, they like to surprise you when your bank statement shows up.


can't say much about their products, but it seems like they had issues with credit card info compromised sometime ago.

This is an ongoing problem.