PDA

View Full Version : Buying a handgun from an ineligible person


winnre
06-25-2010, 9:01 AM
I know a guy selling a pistol and we got to talking. Turns out that legally he is not eligible to own any firearms due to a criminal past, but he has it anyway. He does not want to get busted but wants to sell the gun.

When I told him about PPTs he turned white as a sheet. He is worried it may come back that he should not have the gun. He is a nice guy who is not doing bad things any longer but he could use the cash. What are his options?

loather
06-25-2010, 9:07 AM
They do the background check on YOU (the buyer), not the seller. The only place his name will be recorded is on the paperwork that stays with the FFL. He should almost certainly be safe if you perform a legal PPT, unless the FFL specifically reports the transaction as suspicious to law enforcement.

CSACANNONEER
06-25-2010, 9:07 AM
If he turned white as a sheet, maybe he knows the guns past???? He needs to either PPT it or turn it in to local PD asap. If you buy it from him, I'd recommend not paying him until it passes DROS in case it comes up stolen.

loather
06-25-2010, 9:21 AM
If he turned white as a sheet, maybe he knows the guns past???? He needs to [..] turn it in to local PD asap.

He probably just wants to stay out of jail seeing as though the OP says he's got his act together and his life cleaned up. If I were in that boat, I'd be a bit wary of doing something that holds the possibility of me getting sent back. If I were a prohibited person, I don't think I'd even enter a gun store...

And be careful about the PD surrender: More accurately, he would need to contact a lawyer to arrange a surrender with the PD (which stops the ongoing crime), and ensures that a peaceful surrender of the firearm will not result in charges filed for the prior crime of prohibited person in possession. This topic has been discussed at length regarding unregistered assault weapons; the two situations are *very* similar.

gunn
06-25-2010, 9:21 AM
If he turned white as a sheet, maybe he knows the guns past???? He needs to either PPT it or turn it in to local PD asap. If you buy it from him, I'd recommend not paying him until it passes DROS in case it comes up stolen.

+1 on this one.
If the state were to deem you as not being eligible to own firearms anymore, you still have to be able to transfer the firearm (via PPT to the local PD or to the dealer).

Presumably you will pay more than $100.
Tell him if he wants $100, he should wait until the next gun buyback.
If he wants more from you, you need to PPT it and you will pay him once the gun comes back clean.
He can always do nothing.

Based on what he is willing to do, you can make a logical guess as to where his points of concern lie.

OK with turn-in: gun may be stolen, but not used in a crime.
OK with PPT and payment afterwards: gun likely OK, but worried about his own ineligibility.
Nothing: crime weapon?

There are plenty of guns out there. Remember that if anything comes back to you, the legal fees will greatly swamp whatever 'savings' you were planning to get on this deal vs. the market price.

-g

bwiese
06-25-2010, 9:38 AM
+1 on this one.
If the state were to deem you as not being eligible to own firearms anymore, you still have to be able to transfer the firearm (via PPT to the local PD or to the dealer)

But WITHIN A SPECIFIC FAIRLY SHORT TIMEFRAME.

Once that limited time window closes, that person is in illegal possession and the gun is contraband. This sounds - at best - like the position the seller is in, who knows if he acquired the gun illegally post-conviction, etc.

Sometimes it's best to walk away.

winnre
06-25-2010, 9:54 AM
His conviction is about 20 years old and the gun is even older. I have known the guy a while and was surprised to hear about his past. He knows he is not supposed to have the gun, that is his only worry. No issues with him or the gun, just the two of them together.

And true, he is not really interested in walking into a gun store. The gun is not registered to him so he wants to just give me a note. :D

bwiese
06-25-2010, 10:07 AM
His conviction is about 20 years old and the gun is even older. I have known the guy a while and was surprised to hear about his past. He knows he is not supposed to have the gun, that is his only worry. No issues with him or the gun, just the two of them together.

And true, he is not really interested in walking into a gun store. The gun is not registered to him so he wants to just give me a note. :D

Walk away.

erikdjs
06-25-2010, 10:10 AM
IIRC a PPT includes a background check on the buyer AND the seller. The purpose being, if the buyer fails background - the seller must also pass background to receive gun back.

Correct me if i'm wrong please.

winnre
06-25-2010, 10:22 AM
IIRC a PPT includes a background check on the buyer AND the seller. The purpose being, if the buyer fails background - the seller must also pass background to receive gun back.

Correct me if i'm wrong please.

I believe this is correct. Would they even run a check on the seller if it was not necessary?

383green
06-25-2010, 10:30 AM
I agree with Bill. I'd walk away from this one.

Bill Carson
06-25-2010, 10:37 AM
I know a guy selling a pistol and we got to talking. Turns out that legally he is not eligible to own any firearms due to a criminal past, but he has it anyway. He does not want to get busted but wants to sell the gun.

When I told him about PPTs he turned white as a sheet. He is worried it may come back that he should not have the gun. He is a nice guy who is not doing bad things any longer but he could use the cash. What are his options?

The ex-con after getting out of jail decided to commit another crime by getting a gun. Now the criminal wants to sell it and make money off of his crime. It seems even though his conviction was 20 years ago that he stil has not learned a lesson. Do not walk away. RUN AWAY. Heck if it was me and I knew a ex-con had a gun i would turn him in.

winnre
06-25-2010, 10:41 AM
He had the gun from years before the crime and never turned it in. It'd be a shame to have him call the cops and say "Oops, I found this, my bad" and have it destroyed.

383green
06-25-2010, 10:55 AM
He still committed another crime by keeping the gun after his conviction, and this has been an ongoing crime for the last 20 years. Now, I don't necessarily agree that a criminal who has completed their sentence should be barred from possessing a weapon for self-defense, but that's not the way the law presently works. How "reformed" is this guy if he's been continuously and knowingly committing a crime for the last 20 years and is still doing it?

Run, don't walk, IMHO. As a prohibited person in possession, it sounds like he has a good reason to not walk into a gun store. It's a shame that the gun will get destroyed if he decides to turn it in, but there are millions more just like it.

bwiese
06-25-2010, 11:09 AM
He had the gun from years before the crime and never turned it in. It'd be a shame to have him call the cops and say "Oops, I found this, my bad" and have it destroyed.

In such circumstances this might be couchable as an oversight ("Oh I thought that just applied
to new gun purchases") and thus what he SHOULD do is call a lawyer IMMEDIATELY and have
the lawyer arrange surrender of gun to local LE agency, transactionally cleaning up the situation.

That can transactionally clear up state level issues, and the BATF usu doesn't/wouldn't do anything
at the Fed level.

pullnshoot25
06-25-2010, 11:25 AM
Well, I guess you could have his lawyer or a non-prohibited friend sell and PPT the gun to you. It is not a crime to sell a gun you do not own and the gun isn't even registered anyways so who cares?

They do not care there the gun COMES FROM, just who it GOES TO.

REH
06-25-2010, 12:12 PM
IIRC a PPT includes a background check on the buyer AND the seller. The purpose being, if the buyer fails background - the seller must also pass background to receive gun back.

Correct me if i'm wrong please.

You would be correct. Had the issue several months ago. A do not relase. The DOJ did a backgroud on the seller while I was on the phone with them. Took about 30 seconds

HowardW56
06-25-2010, 12:31 PM
Walk away.

Pass on this one!

robcoe
06-25-2010, 12:34 PM
Walk away.

:iagree: It is not worth the eventual legal headaches.

CSACANNONEER
06-25-2010, 12:36 PM
You would be correct. Had the issue several months ago. A do not relase. The DOJ did a backgroud on the seller while I was on the phone with them. Took about 30 seconds

Yet, they will normally wait until day 9 to run the buyer. Go figure.