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CALATRAVA
06-24-2010, 10:52 PM
I'm a longtime gun owner, but I now have three kids and keep thinking on this scenario:

-Bump in the night

-Need to move from back of a single story house, down a hallway, to middle of the house, to gather youngest kid.

-Would like to do so, with a firearm in hand, because it brings me close to the front door, sliding glass rear door, and side door into garage from kitchen. (Likely points of entry)

While I'm doing this my wife's job is to gather middle and oldest kids from their room (with me between an intruder and her), eventually moving back down the hallway. This would have all of us ending up back near (or in) a smallish walk-in closet at the back of our bedroom, which we've decided is our "alamo" spot, as it muffles babies cries as well as puts as many layers of sheetrock between us and an intruder as possible.

I'm trying to decide what would be the best option. I can't do this with my 870. I've tried. I'm strong, but I can't effectively single-hand a longgun.

I'm wondering if I would be better off having a light, to identify anyone who's already in the house. Or, since I'm trying to get my daughter, and bring her back away from the front of the house, I shouldn't worry about a light.

I'm comfortable with all types of handguns, and have owned several in the last few years, but don't own one currently. (CZ-75 P-01, sp101, bersa thunder)

What pistol would did you/would you choose?
I would really prefer something that had a safety (just a preference), and it needs to be ambidexterous, cuz I'm left handed.

Tac-rail for a light?

I'd appreciate input, Dads (or Mom's :)), on what your home invasion plan/weapon choice is, as well as constructive critiques of what we've come up with.

Price isn't much of an issue. I'm fine paying $325 for a Ruger P95, or $500 for a CZ-75. Just want to find the right one for me.

(BTW, I have range time on most guns you can think of. Glock, sig, gp100, XD, p95, P-01, Sigma, etc...only one I don't like is the glock.)

Thanks a lot.

-Brian

peterabbits
06-24-2010, 10:58 PM
i like my sig P220 SAO w/ ambi safety and night sights. has a rail so a light could be installed if so desired.

FUBAR
06-24-2010, 11:03 PM
I recommend a handgun with a light rail. Do not use the light right away because it will ruin your night vision. Only use it to identify targets. Light attached to weapon frees up your hand so that you can manipulate doors and grab your youngsters.

Legasat
06-24-2010, 11:04 PM
Honestly, in that situation, I would want a revolver, no light

Ishoot
06-24-2010, 11:08 PM
Fila Brasileiro

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q311/faterikcartman/IMG_0099_edited.jpg

Damn great dogs...i.e Brazilian Mastiffs. Super Loyal and hates strangers. I have two English Mastiffs with the same slobber problem. :)

JanG
06-24-2010, 11:11 PM
or revolvers with tac rails so you can have the best of both worlds

sounds like you don't really want our help to choose, you want all of your choices

CALATRAVA
06-24-2010, 11:12 PM
Honestly, in that situation, I would want a revolver, no light

Interesting, could you expand a bit more on this?

SPE
06-24-2010, 11:13 PM
I've had a similar question, but I haven't even gotten to the "which gun" part.

My concern is the logistics of trying to round up the family, considering the fact that I can't possibly anticipate all of the scenarios that I might possibly encounter (i.e. where the BG may try and enter, and if / where they might be in my house when I awake).

Also, the layout of my relatively small (rental) house is not good for avoiding someone, as I have to go across the house to get to the kids' bedroom.

I suppose in my case, I need to assume I will have contact with the BG and that rounding up my family my not be practical, in which case my 870 is probably my best option.

Another thought I have had is to cut a small hole / doorway in the wall in the back of the closets shared by two of the bedrooms in my house. (very "secret passageway" kind of thing) That way I can get to the kids' room directly, making the family gathering much easier.

Good question though... Just remember that even if you develop one or more plans, they may go down the drain quickly based on the situation you encounter.

terry4130
06-24-2010, 11:14 PM
I have a Sig Pro 2340. It's my go to HD gun and I have trained the wife how to use it for when she's alone. It's now her favorite gun :)

xr650r
06-24-2010, 11:16 PM
You like the sigma but not the glock? Weird.

Get a good alarm and a 357 revolver. Done.

bjl333
06-24-2010, 11:16 PM
I would put motion flood lights on the outside, that way any intruders would be lit up. You will then have the advantage as you are in the dark and he is lit up.
Do you have a dog??? I think a good bark is like a good rack on a pump shotgun. It might keep you up at night sometimes but its worth it to me.
Since yo mentioned the CZ I am assuming you are comfy with that weapon. The weapon I would use is the one I am most comfortable with. Seeing you have mentioned it a couple of times and I am guessing you are debating getting it again.
Good luck and be safe.

IMC87
06-24-2010, 11:16 PM
I am all for a light, I mean in a family house setting, you have to identify your family from the intruder...

That being said, a handheld light could, in a way, be SAFER for your family...
if it were on a tac rail, your pistol may be pointed in the general direction of your family if you needed to identify them, but if held in your weak hand, you can point the light at them without pointing your muzzle too

BUT, seconds may/do count, so having a light on a railed pistol is a plus in terms of engaging the target slightly faster....

Tough call between the two tho...
For my family i'd have a separate handheld light and carry a pistol at the 'low ready' and use a light in my weak hand to search/ identify first

cmaynes
06-24-2010, 11:16 PM
I have a glock and a light- the manual safety is a personal thing- but the worst thing you want to do is have the gun not go boom when you really, really need it to. With a Glock, if it is hot, it shoots- when you choose to pull the trigger- which is why your trigger finger disciplinne has to be drilled into you like breathing.

- it depends on how you go about things, but the objective should be to get your family to safety- what that will mean is getting the police called FIRST then securing your immediate room, and working outward IF possible. If your kids are in a different part of the house, you may not be able to get to them easily- that is a sad reality- but the more important thing is to protect life and not worry about going after the bad guys-

take some classes- as well- especially low light ones- and practice your shooting a lot- under stress and possible grogginess you will likely be able to count on 30% of your skill being available to you in the best of cases. Which sucks because you will be legally responsible for any and all shots you might loose.

Also instruct your family on what to do if there is a break in- if the bedrooms have locking doors, and they can be shut without jeopardy do so. Anything to slow the intruder down will be to your benefit. If the room can be secured long enough for your kids to make it out the window and to a neighbors have them practice it- it should be as well drilled as a fire drill.

If you are out in the middle of nowhere- or even if you aren't get a dog- the bigger the better. It is the single best deterrent to a break in, at least that is what the Police have told me.

Fate
06-24-2010, 11:18 PM
Not wild about everyone entering the fatal funnel of the hall and half of you doing it twice (and with kids in tow one of those times.) Consider making the kids' rooms the Alamo(s).

Ishoot
06-24-2010, 11:23 PM
Simple is king, especially in the middle of the night. Shotgun or revolver. Light on the fore end or separate light unattached to the pistol. Latter is better if you have to move around a fair bit.

shellyzsweet
06-24-2010, 11:30 PM
Good suggestion on the dog.

I have an XD that will soon get a rail light added to it....huge benefit is one handed operation, but only to I.D. targets!! Also make sure you I.D. targets before you shoot unless they are already shooting at you. Often burglars are known to their victims and while the shooting may be justified its hard to deal with afterwords.....but if they start shooting at you...all bets are off in my book.

I'm not a parent, but I have a baby cousin now and the thought has crossed my mind on what I would do.
I like that your wife would go get the other kids, but my thought seems to be, clear the kids rooms ASAP, meaning go in, wake them and tell them to go to the spot on their own. Thought being, you have cleared your home up to that point. Take your wife with you and get the youngest and then if needed get the other two if they aren't already moving and make sure they all get to your closet spot safe and sound.

This way you can move as a group and carry a long gun as the protector of your family and your wife can worry about the kids while you worry about the "bump in the night"
....also your wife should also get a handgun...I know when I have kids I'm gonna be one armed to the teeth angry mama bear if anyone tries to get to my cubs!!!

shellyzsweet
06-24-2010, 11:37 PM
Not wild about everyone entering the fatal funnel of the hall and half of you doing it twice (and with kids in tow one of those times.) Consider making the kids' rooms the Alamo(s).

oh good point!!! Maybe move from room to room till you get all the kids in one room and leave mom and kids in the alamo and move from there??

hmmmmm

map
06-24-2010, 11:45 PM
Big dog and a 357 magnum revolver. Also, if you have any family/friends that are in Law Enforcement, you can ask them how they clear a room. I took Krav Maga and learned some of this as well as low light close quarter combat situations. These can help you create alternatives to your plans.

Great job having a plan! I always thought, failure to plan is a plan to failure.

Rigma
06-24-2010, 11:47 PM
Two words: "Layered Defense"

1.) Motion sensor lights & maybe a sign that says the home has an alarm.
2.) Locks AND a deadbolt from inside.
3.) Alarm (plenty of options there.)
4.) Dog. Presuming it sleeps inside at night, and train it not to freak out at sound of alarm.
5.) Weapon. My preference is no light, no laser, no night sights.

Why make your location obvious and ruin your night vision in a place where you could probably walk through it blind and not trip on something?

Side note: Since you have kids please don't assume a "bump" is an intruder, the other layers should help determine if it is an "outside" threat trying to get in...but with kids in the equation (especially teenagers) please be cautious.

Just my cent and a half.

bjl333
06-25-2010, 12:14 AM
I am all for a light, I mean in a family house setting, you have to identify your family from the intruder...

That being said, a handheld light could, in a way, be SAFER for your family...
if it were on a tac rail, your pistol may be pointed in the general direction of your family if you needed to identify them, but if held in your weak hand, you can point the light at them without pointing your muzzle too

BUT, seconds may/do count, so having a light on a railed pistol is a plus in terms of engaging the target slightly faster....

Tough call between the two tho...
For my family i'd have a separate handheld light and carry a pistol at the 'low ready' and use a light in my weak hand to search/ identify first




Food for thought !!

I am personally afraid to put lights on my HD weapon, as it pinpoints your exact position. I would shoot at the light if I was the intruder. If I had backup then maybe a light would be ok, because someone else has my back.
My suggestion would still be a well lit perimeter and a dog. If I was a thief I would probably stay away from the LIT barking house.

bjl333
06-25-2010, 12:18 AM
Just my cent and a half.




Damn economy !!! Even two cents worth can hold its value anymore, loss 25% to cent and a half !!!! LOL ......

1911Operator
06-25-2010, 12:34 AM
well, this is my set up. i have my 1911 operator with a TLR-1 (light and laser) attached to it. its got night sights, and a 8 round mag. I had pre-fragmented bullets in it. but, now its been 2 years since ive had them in there, so I took them to the range and shot all 8 of them. very very very nice rounds! So now im going to buy some more or them. the way they work is they wont go through walls. what ever they hit is going down though. so if you have kids, like you do, I would recommend them to you. since I shot them I replaced the 8 rounds with some winchester ranger t-series. now I have to order more of those magsafe rounds and ill be happy :) , btw I dont think +p rounds are all that nesessary in home defense. the extra recoil makes you take longer to get your sights lined up again for a follow up shot. IMO

1911Operator
06-25-2010, 12:39 AM
Two words: "Layered Defense"

1.) Motion sensor lights & maybe a sign that says the home has an alarm.
2.) Locks AND a deadbolt from inside.
3.) Alarm (plenty of options there.)
4.) Dog. Presuming it sleeps inside at night, and train it not to freak out at sound of alarm.
5.) Weapon. My preference is no light, no laser, no night sights.

Why make your location obvious and ruin your night vision in a place where you could probably walk through it blind and not trip on something?

Side note: Since you have kids please don't assume a "bump" is an intruder, the other layers should help determine if it is an "outside" threat trying to get in...but with kids in the equation (especially teenagers) please be cautious.

Just my cent and a half.

I like the light, yes it takes away your night vision but your now looking at a lit up place! if there are intruders and they see the light theres a good possibility that they are just going to take off running. I know how to clear rooms from when I was in the army and they taught us all that, all you have to do is never give up your back or your sides. take everything face on. your light and laser will help you find your target too.no need to careful aiming. just point and shot.

Arondos
06-25-2010, 12:58 AM
Bouncing around at night with kids potentially on the loose and having to figure out if a shadow is a bad guy or a kid is an accident waiting to happen or a great way to have a bad guy get to close.

Rack the slide on a pump shotgun and IMO most bad guys are going to be thinking about nothing but how to quickly make an exit. There are very few people who don't know what that sound is, and if they know what it is they sure don't want to be on the business end of it. If it is one of your kids and they hear it they can call out and the situation is resolved.

I wouldn't want to have to sort out kids and a potential intruder in the dark when waking up. Scare them off, or light the place up to make target ID easy.

CALATRAVA
06-25-2010, 5:59 AM
Two words: "Layered Defense"

1.) Motion sensor lights & maybe a sign that says the home has an alarm.
2.) Locks AND a deadbolt from inside.
3.) Alarm (plenty of options there.)
4.) Dog. Presuming it sleeps inside at night, and train it not to freak out at sound of alarm.
5.) Weapon. My preference is no light, no laser, no night sights.

Why make your location obvious and ruin your night vision in a place where you could probably walk through it blind and not trip on something?

Side note: Since you have kids please don't assume a "bump" is an intruder, the other layers should help determine if it is an "outside" threat trying to get in...but with kids in the equation (especially teenagers) please be cautious.

Just my cent and a half.

Great points, for sure.

We have security lights, and motion sensors but as we are renters (soon to be buyers) of the house we live in, a dog and an alarm aren't possible right now. Good thing is that we live in a very low crime, rural area. We simply favor being prepared. (we have an awesome earthquake kit/bug-out bag ready to go, too)

btw, the kids are young. Not exactly able to be active participants of 'the' plan. The one i'd be going to get is the 1 year old.
She's easily picked up with one hand and carried.

Forestgnome
06-25-2010, 7:12 AM
I find the thought of trying to reenact a fire drill under those conditions unlikely. I'ld prefer to have the wife ready to call 911, and me going after the bad guys. Might have the whole mess cleared up before the kids wake up.

mstlaurent
06-25-2010, 8:26 AM
Actually, my dog goes ballistic whenever she hears anything out of the ordinary, including the alarm. I like it that way. She sounds like she is a pit bull with two rotweilers trying to get out of her. That alone will probably be enough to make the average intruder retreat. The other advantage to this is that when she goes off like that I am awake instantly. When she has a false alarm I swear it takes a year off my life, but I am definitely on adrenaline and ready to act.

As for layout, we have problems also. My boys rooms are across the hall from ours, so if I am engaging an intruder in the hall from our bedroom they are in the line of fire. Not good. My plan is to hopefully get an early warning from the dog and engage the intruder from the hall into the rest of the house, but if that fails then I aim high and pray.

ZX-10R
06-25-2010, 8:49 AM
Fila Brasileiro

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q311/faterikcartman/IMG_0099_edited.jpg


This poster got it right...Get yourself a big dog first. Then get a handgun, AK, AR or whatever...

My Akita is not a friendly dog at all and instinctively protective. She is huge 26" at shoulder and 120lbs last doctors visit. She is large for a female of her breed. If you are within earshot of our house and make a noise, you will hear a very thunderous bark. If you are too close to the house you will hear a very intense growling followed by barking. All of which is audible very easily even to me who sleeps like a rock. Dog is level one of defense. Door alarms are level two and they are loud and audible. Panic button is level 3 and we have one in our room. Once set off the alarm is blaring and will deter anyone. After that the firearms come out. Keep in mind I live in a very nice area but of course I am protective to say the least.

Our dog is friendly to a handful of friends and neighbors but NO STRANGERS. Does not even like my brother-in-law and his wife. She is however, the most loving dog to my wife, daughter, and myself...She knows the family and she knows the living she has (she eats the same meals we eat since she refuses dog food, so she eats better than some people do).

A dog will buy you time and is a great addition to the family. I avoid friendly dog breeds.

For home when I am in SoCal or Santa Barbara, my AK is my home defender. My DDM4 is not my first choice due to the purpose it is built up for. In NorCal it is a cheap AR build that will be home defense plus a M44 that I refinished. I am considering a handgun but still do not see a need for one just yet since I am finishing 3 rifles right now :D.

When I am done with my builds, I will get a handgun for sure but definitely get a dog. Do not get a weenie dog if you are concerned about security.

Layout is tough for us...Bottom of staircase is where my Akita sleeps. Then up the stairs to the right is daughter's room and other spare room, and to left is another spare room and then to the master bedroom. From the top balcony you have full view of downstairs living room but her room at one end of the balcony and our master bedroom is a problem...But as I said my Akita buys time for me to get ready and be armed very very easily.

civilsnake
06-25-2010, 8:52 AM
A light is necessary. Whether gun mounted or handheld, you must have a good white light. Exactly how do you plan on identifying a target you can't see?

The idea of being a stealthed-out ninja seems great until you realize your goal is not to kill, your goal is to protect. That means knowing who/what you're shooting at and making sure you hit that target.

Cochise82
06-25-2010, 9:02 AM
in an night time intruder situation, my main concern would be getting to the kids to make sure they're safe. The most important thing is teaching the kids what to do in that situation. If you don't have an alarm system, get one. Not only can they warn of of the intruder before he gets into the house, but the can also be used to call the police, fire dept. and/or paramedics. My first move would be to exit my room with a firearm, sweeping with a light for bad guys, and making sure to pass the alarm keypad on the way to get my kids. A simple press of the "police" button would both set off the internal siren and contact the police. The internal siren would also serve as a warning to the rest of the household that it's time to wake up and move.

I might also suggest teaching the kids that when they hear the alarm siren, move to their personal "alamo" spot where you will know where they are and and intruder will not. This can be under their bed, in a closed, behind a dresser, etc...anything that will take an intruder at least few seconds to realize they're not in bed, but you would know right away where to find them.

This is the advantage you have over a stranger in your house, being able to plan and know exactly where everything is going to be. And I don't care how much you trust anyone, ONLY THE MEMBERS OF YOUR HOUSEHOLD SHOULD KNOW YOUR EMERGENCY PLAN. Make sure the kids are VERY clear that none of this is to be repeated to anyone, not even their BFFs or teachers.

Unit74
06-25-2010, 9:02 AM
I'd say CPTED your house first... Crime prevention through environmental design.


Motion lights, thorny bushes under windows, alarm signs and window stickers, beware of dog signs, dead bolts with reinforced jambs sprinklers that come on between 0100-0330.


Anything you can do to make your house undesirable first. Buying a gun in your particular situation sounds more like a sticking a piece of gum in a leaky dam.

SPaikmos
06-25-2010, 9:08 AM
btw, the kids are 5,3,1 years old respectively. Not exactly able to be active participants of 'the' plan. The one i'd be going to get is the 1 year old.
She's easily picked up with one hand and carried.


My kids are the exact same ages. And their rooms are on the opposite side of the house as well.

My advice - load up some snap caps and practice lines of fire in your home. You need to know ahead of time where you can and cannot shoot, should you encounter a threat. You want to guarantee you don't send a round in the wrong direction. This may also go for neighbors, although you mentioned a rural area so maybe it doesn't apply to you. Assess your living area to figure out where you have concealment and cover.

A good option is to have the wife trained as well, so you can split up into two safe rooms. The only thing I don't like about that is if you are split up, there's the chance one of you might shoot the other, so target ID is critical.

paul0660
06-25-2010, 9:13 AM
Bump in the night? What you really mean is a loud crash, or you will be going through your HD routine several times a week. I vote for a dog, and a pistol with frangible ammo.

Kodemonkey
06-25-2010, 9:47 AM
Not wild about everyone entering the fatal funnel of the hall and half of you doing it twice (and with kids in tow one of those times.) Consider making the kids' rooms the Alamo(s).

That is how our "plan" is setup. Alarm trips, wife goes for her 357 revolver and runs to the kids room - once there she dials 911. I grab my 9mm and hit "All lights on" on the X10 that lights up everyplace in the house except where I will be at the top of the stairs (which is not on that system on purpose). I put myself at a good spot between the entry point of the Bad Guy and the kids and wife.

My plan is to intimidate with the lights and the alarm being triggered and hope they run away. If someone keeps coming then they are bad news and I have a imaginary line drawn that if they cross I will shoot. That happens to be a beneficial "kill point" where they are coming up the stairs and I have cover around a corner that has 4 sheets of sheetrock and a load bearing beam in the corner.

The whole plan goes FUBAR if they get a ladder and come in through the kids window, but I am betting that is not going to happen. You can't cover 100% of the situations.

Put as many of the odds in your favor. Try to find a good Alamo site like you have, but I would make that separate from your family. If not for the simple reason that if he has a gun and lead starts flying around they will be that much further from it.

Now I don't know if the wife is that interested in guns or not, but if you could convince her to be able to at least operate yours if it comes down to that I would encourage that. Better yet, get her a revolver that she can carry to back you up. I only like the revolver because it has a heavier trigger pull and is less complicated in an emergency. If my wife has to use hers she only has to hit from a maximum distance of 7-8 feet. The revolver used to be our only line of defense, but now we both have our own.

Cochise82
06-25-2010, 9:51 AM
Bump in the night? What you really mean is a loud crash, or you will be going through your HD routine several times a week. I vote for a dog, and a pistol with frangible ammo.

Dogs and guns are expensive to feed, but when my gun poops, I get to reload it ;)

Corbin Dallas
06-25-2010, 9:54 AM
Bump in the night? What you really mean is a loud crash, or you will be going through your HD routine several times a week. I vote for a dog, and a pistol with frangible ammo.

Frangible ammo still goes through walls contrary to popular belief. The only difference is that it is lead free.

Now, if you want some good home defense "safety" (used loosly) round, the glazer blue tips are your best bet.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot4.htm


#1 - Dogs are a GREAT deterent from the unwanted guest

#2 - Make a plan of action for that "Bump" in the night and practice it.

#3 - Get a good flashlight. Bad idea to use the only flashlight you have attached to your gun to identify good guys from bad ones. Along with many other reasons

#4 - Pump shotguns make for a great audible deterent. Nothing puts the fear in a person like the sound of a shotgun being racked. Bad guys know it doesn't take a marksman to hit your target with a shotgun. Here, close counts.

Legasat
06-25-2010, 10:11 AM
Interesting, could you expand a bit more on this?

A Revolver can be used in either hand, no worry about safeties, FTE, FTF, jams, or reliability. Presumably you will have your child in one arm or the other, and may not have the option to switch arms.

I am not against lights, I just don't like them attached to the gun. If you light someone up, and they have a gun, they will shoot at the light. With a child in my arms, the last thing I would want is to give them a better target. If you are going to use a light, I prefer to use it in the other hand than the one I am holding a gun in, and hold the light up and away from my body.

Just my 2Ę.

Best of luck!

CALATRAVA
06-25-2010, 10:58 AM
I find the thought of trying to reenact a fire drill under those conditions unlikely. I'ld prefer to have the wife ready to call 911, and me going after the bad guys. Might have the whole mess cleared up before the kids wake up.

Thats a good point. Maybe it should be a consideration not to bring the kids into the "fatal funnel", as someone labeled it, at all.

phamkl
06-25-2010, 11:11 AM
The kids are on the opposite side of the house here as well but we have a courtyard house with the only real entrance on the inside. Plus we're all sleeping on the top floor, which is my CPTED. How so? Well when the BGs trip the motion sensor flood lights, the wife's job is to grab her piece and move to the kids' side of the house, then we cut them down with the cross fire.


Nah, but wouldn't that be nice. I've always wanted to say that my response to a home invasion is SUPPRESSSING FIIIRE!!!

(it's not.)

CALATRAVA
06-25-2010, 11:15 AM
That is how our "plan" is setup. Alarm trips, wife goes for her 357 revolver and runs to the kids room - once there she dials 911. I grab my 9mm and hit "All lights on" on the X10 that lights up everyplace in the house except where I will be at the top of the stairs (which is not on that system on purpose). I put myself at a good spot between the entry point of the Bad Guy and the kids and wife.

My plan is to intimidate with the lights and the alarm being triggered and hope they run away. If someone keeps coming then they are bad news and I have a imaginary line drawn that if they cross I will shoot. That happens to be a beneficial "kill point" where they are coming up the stairs and I have cover around a corner that has 4 sheets of sheetrock and a load bearing beam in the corner.

The whole plan goes FUBAR if they get a ladder and come in through the kids window, but I am betting that is not going to happen. You can't cover 100% of the situations.

Put as many of the odds in your favor. Try to find a good Alamo site like you have, but I would make that separate from your family. If not for the simple reason that if he has a gun and lead starts flying around they will be that much further from it.

Now I don't know if the wife is that interested in guns or not, but if you could convince her to be able to at least operate yours if it comes down to that I would encourage that. Better yet, get her a revolver that she can carry to back you up. I only like the revolver because it has a heavier trigger pull and is less complicated in an emergency. If my wife has to use hers she only has to hit from a maximum distance of 7-8 feet. The revolver used to be our only line of defense, but now we both have our own.

This seems like a VERY effective plan. I think my situation differs only in that i have 2 kids in one room and the baby in the nursery/office. Otherwise, i really like the theory of "super-illuminating" the house, aside from where you have placed yourself. Having myself/my wife call 911 definitely needs to be integrated into our plan - thank you for mentioning that. The shire-reaves :D in our area actually have a pretty good response time(5-10min) for how rural we are.

addiction
06-25-2010, 11:19 AM
Best HD plan I have heard is make a lot of noise, clearing a house alone is near impossible, most BG will take off if they hear someone awake, if they do not, then you pretty much know they are willing to do you harm, and the rules change.

-Get the kids to their Alamo places seems like a good idea (don't have kids myself)
-call the cops,
-if you can cover the doors of the kids rooms from your room that is what I would do,
-you really don't need to go to their rooms if they are in a known and safe place, maybe baby monitors in the Alamo place so you can verify they are there, many have night vision.
-set up a defensible position where you can protect the rest of the familiy, but do not go hunting for the BG, you are a dead man if you do.

I have spent a day with an instructor in our house practicing house clearing and checking out the bump in the night, and the single walk away is that if the bad guys want to hurt you they will get the drop on you, no way you can prevent it if you are moving around the house. So you need to turn the table, and be the guy sitting in ambush waiting for the bad guys.

one more thing I hear and it is a good idea, have a baggie with a key and floor plan marking where the alamo places are that you can throw out a window to the cops, gives them a edge if they have to clear the house.

Kodemonkey
06-25-2010, 11:26 AM
This seems like a VERY effective plan. I think my situation differs only in that i have 2 kids in one room and the baby in the nursery/office. Otherwise, i really like the theory of "super-illuminating" the house, aside from where you have placed yourself. Having myself/my wife call 911 definitely needs to be integrated into our plan - thank you for mentioning that. The shire-reaves :D in our area actually have a pretty good response time(5-10min) for how rural we are.

X-10 is pretty cheap to install and doesn't require wiring (unless you want to - in my case I have). I like the idea that it will be disorienting for a few seconds to whoever is in the house and will blind him a bit.

The alarm system is to me the most important part, because it tells me accurately and quickly that there is a threat and not just some random house creaking/settling. I have to travel on business a lot and my wife says having it armed on "perimeter" it is the only way she can sleep at night.

Any good defense has several layers to it. But I would go through drills so that it becomes second nature if the SHTF...

:eek:

DVSmith
06-25-2010, 11:40 AM
As a parent of an 18yo and 19yo:

When we had 1st had kids, all firearms were unloaded and locked in a safe. I made the decision that the likelihood of a home invasion was low enough that the need for loaded firearms was insignificantly small.

If you feel that insecure in your housing, I would suggest you move to a better neighborhood.

Additionally, the NRA has an EXCELLENT class called Personal Protection Inside the Home. I would STRONGLY suggest you take that class from a reputable NRA instructor (which of course counts me out.)

Disturbingly, there was no mention in your emergency plan of calling 911. I am glad to see someone pointed that out and you are adjusting your plan accordingly.

j1133s
06-25-2010, 12:47 PM
I'm a longtime gun owner, but I now have three kids and keep thinking on this scenario:
...

I'm trying to decide what would be the best option. I can't do this with my 870. I've tried. I'm strong, but I can't effectively single-hand a longgun.

I'm wondering if I would be better off having a light, to identify anyone who's already in the house. Or, since I'm trying to get my daughter, and bring her back away from the front of the house, I shouldn't worry about a light.
...
Tac-rail for a light?

I'd appreciate input, Dads (or Mom's :)), on what your home invasion plan/weapon choice is, as well as constructive critiques of what we've come up with.


With kids in the house, you'd definitely want to 100% id your target esp you are going there to pick her up (maybe it is she that's moving about down starits). (Even w.o kids you should id your target frankly.)

I'd suggest installing those motion/heat lights down stairs. This way it'll save your teos from hitting furniture too. If your kids likes dogs, they are nice to have in this situation too.

Rail light is a must since you mentioned 1 handed.

I don't have any home invasion plan unfortunately. I do have a loaded pistol w/ light in the safe, but the safe is in the garage.

CALATRAVA
06-25-2010, 12:47 PM
As a parent of an 18yo and 19yo:

When we had 1st had kids, all firearms were unloaded and locked in a safe. I made the decision that the likelihood of a home invasion was low enough that the need for loaded firearms was insignificantly small.

If you feel that insecure in your housing, I would suggest you move to a better neighborhood.

Additionally, the NRA has an EXCELLENT class called Personal Protection Inside the Home. I would STRONGLY suggest you take that class from a reputable NRA instructor (which of course counts me out.)

Disturbingly, there was no mention in your emergency plan of calling 911. I am glad to see someone pointed that out and you are adjusting your plan accordingly.

California is subject to earthquakes. We have a plan and emergency supplies ready and waiting in the event of a big one. Do i feel insecure about 'quakes, knowing that they can strike at any time, anywhere?

Nope. I'm secure because of our plannng and prep.

I'm applying the same rational to preparing for a home invasion. Not because i'm insecure, rather simply because its a plausible hazard. To me, they're both rare occurances, but are alike in that having the right plan and tools available makes all the difference in minimizing their infuence on a positive outcome for mi familia.

So no, we love where we live, and will not be moving :)

As for 911, your right, though i keep a cell phone at my bedside as my
morning alarm and to keep it charged, i hadn't thought to articulate it here, though we'd likely alert 911 as a matter of course. Still a good point for me listen to though. :)

cheers!

faterikcartman
06-25-2010, 1:39 PM
Not trying to crusade one way or the other here, but in response to 911 I just want everyone to think about what that may or may not accomplish. I live within a city's limits, but on the very edge. A couple years ago a neighbour's alarm went off and I had a chance to speak with the officer that responded for quite a while. I realize he was then responding to an alarm, but he was speaking about police response in general where I live. He said in that case he happened to be free and near, but that isn't always the case. He said (off the record mind you) that he didn't think it was realistic to rely on the police if we're home during a break in. Whether that is from an unforeseen delay in response time, or unwillingness to enter until a special team arrived if there was an armed person inside. He suggested just what all the folklore says cops say: get a big dog, a gun, and be sure to shoot them inside, not outside. He felt that often they only picked up the pieces rather than dealt with a crime in progress. This was just one K-9 officer and there may be many many more who disagree with everything this guy said. I'm just passing it along as food for thought.

GunNutz
06-25-2010, 1:47 PM
I use a 1911, but I don't have kids. The revolver suggestion is a good one, and you don't have to worry about brass being thrown around. On the other hand, a pistol is nice because you can leave it completely unloaded (with a mag with home defense rounds ready to go) and have the clip in there in a fraction of a second. Not all pistols are ambidextrous, but for a 1911 it's easy enough to add ambi parts.

Monticore
06-25-2010, 2:51 PM
Great points, for sure.

We have security lights, and motion sensors but as we are renters (soon to be buyers) of the house we live in, a dog and an alarm aren't possible right now. Good thing is that we live in a very low crime, rural area just outside of san diego. We simply favor being prepared. (we have an awesome earthquake kit/bug-out bag ready to go, too)

btw, the kids are 5,3,1 years old respectively. Not exactly able to be active participants of 'the' plan. The one i'd be going to get is the 1 year old.
She's easily picked up with one hand and carried.

My only kid will be 1 in late July.
There has been a lot of great advice that will all work. I thank you the OP for a great topic and I thank all that have given advice as it is helping me in my thought process as well.

I just bought the M&P40 for target fun and home defense.
You can get them with manual safety but mine does not have one.
I like the idea of grab, make hot, go boom.
I personally like the magazine disconnect in case I get in a grappling situation I can just drop the mag and not worry about the gun firing during the scrum.

I plan on having a weapon light and a handheld. (two is one, one is none) If I am the one scooping up my daughter while the wife unlocks the shotgun, I want the light on the gun. If the wife grabs the baby and I have both hands I will have the flexibility of using either or both lights. My handheld has a strobe mode, which may come in handy. We get to our alamo where I will take the shotgun and stand guard in my spot of cover that sees straight to the only stairs leading up to us.

Do not forget the cell phone in the alamo.
I have an old blackberry that we keep on a charger in our alamo.
Even without service, it can still call 911. The speakerphone will come in handy as my wife will be armed as well.

Hopefully none of us need our plans, but thank goodness we have at least put some thought into them.

Monticore
06-25-2010, 3:14 PM
I forgot to mention that I took my M&P40 out last night for its maiden voyage to the range.
I made sure to practice one handed, with my off hand in a position as if I were actually holding my baby girl. Repeated on the other side. It gave me the confidence that I can be on target in that position.
I feel it's worth trying at your next range trip.

saber
06-25-2010, 3:32 PM
This might sound like a crazy idea but have you thought about trying a dry run or practicing in some way.

I'm sure you can think about making a game out of it with your kids. Don't have your guns or flashlights around and do it with the lights on. Try and figure out what is the most efficient way to move through your house.

Also, you might want to think of a couple of alternative scenarios. For example, there are three main ways inside my house (front door, garage, back door). Depending on where someone came into my home, my response might be different.

CALATRAVA
06-25-2010, 5:40 PM
This might sound like a crazy idea but have you thought about trying a dry run or practicing in some way.

I'm sure you can think about making a game out of it with your kids. Don't have your guns or flashlights around and do it with the lights on. Try and figure out what is the most efficient way to move through your house.

Also, you might want to think of a couple of alternative scenarios. For example, there are three main ways inside my house (front door, garage, back door). Depending on where someone came into my home, my response might be different.

We do practice earthquake drills with them, i don't see why we couldn't do the same with this scenario, keeping it fun, with rewards for the quietest, quickest kid to boogie to the decided upon safe spot. Be good to see how it all works.

Thanks!! Great idea!

CALATRAVA
06-26-2010, 6:19 PM
So I think i'm definitely still in favor of a gun mounted light as i think one of the most important things that has been brought up is the fact that a bump in the night may very well be one of my family members.

I don't see myself walking down the hall with the light on, because i know my house well enough to use my night vision and i don't fancy giving my position away until its a necessity. I don' think i could shoot at someone, or something, without knowing exactly who/what they were.

RolinThundr
06-26-2010, 11:47 PM
Streamlight offers colored lenses (red, blue, green) for many of their tactical lights, like the Scorpion, for those interested in maintaining night vision and still having sufficient light to identify others. Looks like they also have them for the TLR-1 weapon light as well.

http://www.streamlight.com/images/series/accessories/tlr-filters_thumb.jpg

lazs
06-27-2010, 8:20 AM
make sure of your target before you shoot.

eastershawn
06-27-2010, 8:43 AM
whatever gun you get, get glaser plug ammunition. the last thing you want is to shoot thru a wall

themailman
06-27-2010, 9:30 AM
My suggestion to you would be a M&P9C with a Streamlight TLR 3, or, even though you dont like Glocks (but somehow youre ok with the Sigma) I would suggest a Glock 26/19 with a Streamlight TLR2.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4651/9ctlt3b.jpg

CALATRAVA
06-27-2010, 11:09 AM
My suggestion to you would be a M&P9C with a Streamlight TLR 3, or, even though you dont like Glocks (but somehow youre ok with the Sigma) I would suggest a Glock 26/19 with a Streamlight TLR2.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4651/9ctlt3b.jpg

it was mostly the grip that i didn't like. Otherwise i've got no issue with the gun. It doesn't fit my want for a manual safety, tho.

I'm more familiar with surefire( i had an e2d) so i'll have to check out steamlight's stuff. And yeah, i dig m&p's. I'll try one out at the range again.

Probably gonna get something in a week or two

gravedigger
06-27-2010, 11:47 AM
I see a problem here.

Why are you focusing on dealing with the "bump in the night" IN your house while there is no discussion about preventing the bump? You have a door into your garage, then into your kitchen. It is night time. Family members are asleep in their beds. I'll betcha your yard-to-garage entry and garage-into-kitchen doors are hollow core doors. BOTH of those doors should be SOLID CORE doors, with three hinges. If either of them have hinges exposed to the exterior (doors open out) then use "security hinges" so the pins cannot be removed. Each door should have either a deadbolt and doorknob accessible from the exterior AND two interior cane bolts or interior-only accessible deadbolts, one near the top, the other near the bottom, to prevent forced entry, or some other fortified means of preventing forced entry.

Get your SGD coated with 3M film, so an intruder cannot smash the glass for entry. Install a good lock on the door frame, and/or use a physical bar to prevent lateral movement of the door panel, and make SURE the sliding door cannot be lifted out of the track without physically removing a spacer strip installed at the top. Nylon strips can be installed such that you must open the sliding panel fully BEFORE it can be lifted out of the track.

Home invaders are a real threat, but if you don't take common sense precautions to make your home's entry points strong enough to resist an intruder, you are basically talking about home defense tactics while sleeping in a screen tent!

Do you have cameras around the exterior, with AUDIO? Do you have cameras IN your home, with audio? Did you know that a simple $40.00 B&W camera in one corner of each room with a fish-eye lens and IR illumination fed to a monitor next to your bed will allow you to see the entire interior of your home when you hear that bump? Better than IR is a simple 7 watt night light in every room, so the cameras can see. They don't need to be high quality. You only need to see that someone is in your living room. That should be enough to respond to an intruder.

How old are your kids? I used to run a handyman business. One of my customers actually installed dog doors into the interior walls of his home. I thought it was strange, but he said that his dogs (I think they were labs) could access ANY room in the home, regardless of closed doors and blocked entries. I liked the idea! Do your kids have another exit from their bedrooms? Small passages through walls are easy to install through the double layer of drywall, and easy to seal off when they are no longer needed. Interior walls do not normally have insulation, but AC lines for outlets need to be routed above them, and you have to make sure there are no water pipes or sewer vents where you choose to create a room-to-room passage.

Work more on making your home's vulnerable entry points damned difficult to breach, and worry less about how you will handle the person who breaches them.

CALATRAVA
06-27-2010, 1:14 PM
I see a problem here.

Why are you focusing on dealing with the "bump in the night" IN your house while there is no discussion about preventing the bump? You have a door into your garage, then into your kitchen. It is night time. Family members are asleep in their beds. I'll betcha your yard-to-garage entry and garage-into-kitchen doors are hollow core doors. BOTH of those doors should be SOLID CORE doors, with three hinges. If either of them have hinges exposed to the exterior (doors open out) then use "security hinges" so the pins cannot be removed. Each door should have either a deadbolt and doorknob accessible from the exterior AND two interior cane bolts or interior-only accessible deadbolts, one near the top, the other near the bottom, to prevent forced entry, or some other fortified means of preventing forced entry.

Get your SGD coated with 3M film, so an intruder cannot smash the glass for entry. Install a good lock on the door frame, and/or use a physical bar to prevent lateral movement of the door panel, and make SURE the sliding door cannot be lifted out of the track without physically removing a spacer strip installed at the top. Nylon strips can be installed such that you must open the sliding panel fully BEFORE it can be lifted out of the track.

Home invaders are a real threat, but if you don't take common sense precautions to make your home's entry points strong enough to resist an intruder, you are basically talking about home defense tactics while sleeping in a screen tent!

Do you have cameras around the exterior, with AUDIO? Do you have cameras IN your home, with audio? Did you know that a simple $40.00 B&W camera in one corner of each room with a fish-eye lens and IR illumination fed to a monitor next to your bed will allow you to see the entire interior of your home when you hear that bump? Better than IR is a simple 7 watt night light in every room, so the cameras can see. They don't need to be high quality. You only need to see that someone is in your living room. That should be enough to respond to an intruder.

How old are your kids? I used to run a handyman business. One of my customers actually installed dog doors into the interior walls of his home. I thought it was strange, but he said that his dogs (I think they were labs) could access ANY room in the home, regardless of closed doors and blocked entries. I liked the idea! Do your kids have another exit from their bedrooms? Small passages through walls are easy to install through the double layer of drywall, and easy to seal off when they are no longer needed. Interior walls do not normally have insulation, but AC lines for outlets need to be routed above them, and you have to make sure there are no water pipes or sewer vents where you choose to create a room-to-room passage.

Work more on making your home's vulnerable entry points damned difficult to breach, and worry less about how you will handle the person who breaches them.

Both the front door and "kitchen to garage" door are solid core with deadbolts, additionally both the front door and the "garage to yard door" have steel security screens with deadbolts. So i feel pretty good in that arena.

The SGD to the back patio is latchable but we use a anti-slide bar none-the-less.

I like the idea of 3m film, for earthquakes as well as break-ins. I'll have to do some research on that.

We won't be cutting the doors or the walls, since as i stated, we haven't bought the house yet. We are in fact longterm renters with a lot of leeway, but "crawlholes" in the wall might not go over well. Haha! Cool idea though!

The 3m

FreedomMom
06-27-2010, 1:51 PM
I would put motion flood lights on the outside, that way any intruders would be lit up. You will then have the advantage as you are in the dark and he is lit up.
Do you have a dog??? I think a good bark is like a good rack on a pump shotgun. It might keep you up at night sometimes but its worth it to me.
Since yo mentioned the CZ I am assuming you are comfy with that weapon. The weapon I would use is the one I am most comfortable with. Seeing you have mentioned it a couple of times and I am guessing you are debating getting it again.
Good luck and be safe.

I second the pump shotgun, that's what we have for home defense. I'm hoping if I ever have to get it out, then the sound in itself will scare away any would be prowlers. May be silly, but I feel better knowing I can make that sound if I ever need to.

*Edit/addition: I haven't read through all the posts, but there was some light discussion and I wanted to add....since we live in a neighborhood where our houses are close together, and the kids are opposite of our bedroom where the shotgun is located, I'm sure as heck not pulling the trigger till I know good and well (get a visual) there's a true threat-IN MY HOUSE. I won't be walking around in the dark (have a small bedside flashlight that I can handle with the shotgun if I can't turn on the lights) waving a handgun around - that puppy will be looking at the ceiling until I know where to point it! That, and the sound is why we have a shotgun instead of a handgun for our primary self defense gun.

Mstrty
06-27-2010, 1:58 PM
If you get a light. Please Please get formal home defense training with a light. So many under-trained folks thinking a light is a end all be all solution. Great tool if properly trained to use it. jm2c

CALATRAVA
06-27-2010, 2:01 PM
You like the sigma but not the glock? Weird.

Get a good alarm and a 357 revolver. Done.

Ever fired a magnum revolver in a hallway, in the dark, with no hearing protection? And i don't consider .38 special an adequate choice if I can just as easily choose 9mm, .40, or .45

No way, jose. :D The blast, flash and hot gases from the barrel/cylinder area are pretty intense.

Much prefer and auto, since most of that is directed forward.

pyromensch
06-27-2010, 2:19 PM
Two words: "Layered Defense"

1.) Motion sensor lights & maybe a sign that says the home has an alarm.
2.) Locks AND a deadbolt from inside.
3.) Alarm (plenty of options there.)
4.) Dog. Presuming it sleeps inside at night, and train it not to freak out at sound of alarm.
5.) Weapon. My preference is no light, no laser, no night sights.

Why make your location obvious and ruin your night vision in a place where you could probably walk through it blind and not trip on something?

Side note: Since you have kids please don't assume a "bump" is an intruder, the other layers should help determine if it is an "outside" threat trying to get in...but with kids in the equation (especially teenagers) please be cautious.

Just my cent and a half.

another idea, that i use in my house, is a remote activated switch. you plug the receiver into an outlet, then plug a light, into it. you have a battery operated, switch like "sender", which you can turn on or off with a flip of the switch. you here something outside your room, and you have this on the other side of the house, you can turn on a light, getting the intruder's attention. the downside is they might retreat, from the light towards you. if i ever have situation where i use it in this scenario, i'll let you know which way they went.

pyromensch
06-27-2010, 2:21 PM
Ever fired a magnum revolver in a hallway, in the dark, with no hearing protection? And i don't consider .38 special an adequate choice if I can just as easily choose 9mm, .40, or .45

No way, jose. :D The blast, flash and hot gases from the barrel/cylinder area are pretty intense.

Much prefer and auto, since most of that is directed forward.

adrenaline rushing, tends to negate most of that, with exception of flash.

CALATRAVA
06-27-2010, 3:33 PM
another idea, that i use in my house, is a remote activated switch. you plug the receiver into an outlet, then plug a light, into it. you have a battery operated, switch like "sender", which you can turn on or off with a flip of the switch. you here something outside your room, and you have this on the other side of the house, you can turn on a light, getting the intruder's attention. the downside is they might retreat, from the light towards you. if i ever have situation where i use it in this scenario, i'll let you know which way they went.

Interesting

CALATRAVA
07-10-2010, 11:43 AM
still diggin' for the right gun...I'll probably buy something this month.

Top picks:

Ruger p95
Ruger SR9c
RIA 1911
CZ-75 compact
Snub-nosed, laser equipped zombie killer (smith or charter?)

My wife's impressions:

my wife loved the smith snubbies we checked out. :D
She also really dug the 1911.
She thought the sr9c was a "smart" choice, though not very attractive
She thought the CZ-75 compact was pimp.

Donk310
07-10-2010, 2:33 PM
You like the sigma but not the glock? Weird.

Get a good alarm and a 357 revolver. Done.

The Sigma is a sweet pistol. Soon to be my favorite when I do this trigger job. My Glock 19.... night and day. I F-N HATE IT, and for the reasons why.... there is nothing I can do about it.

RT13
07-10-2010, 2:47 PM
To OP,

Your home layout is almost similar to mine. I use and prefer a good simple, reliable pistol for HD. IMHO, this is one area where you want to keep everything simple. You want a reliable handgun with no manual safeties which may end up going against you in the middle of the night during a rude awakening where you're brain is in a mix, your heart pumping like crazy with adrenalin, and fear and anger setting in. A good handgun for this would be a revolver, a Glock, Sig, M&P, and such. And you want to get a DAO or SA/DA pistol. A hair trigger SA in this situation can prove fatal and dangerous. And to be honest, forget the sights, night sights or not, in this situation, most will not use the sights. It will be point and shoot. You can mount a weapon light or laser to your liking. There are pros n cons to a weapon mounted light which I'm sure you already know or others have covered. I prefer to have one because you will not want to be holding a flashlight and gun with your hands. Using the light though should be limited and only used to your advantage. I wouldn't use it for searching or sweeping the house. I would only use it to blind a BG. Youre night vision is good enough to see. Strategically place night lights throughout your house not only to illuminate the areas, but to throw anyone's shadow around the hoiuse for you to know where a BG is or could be. Lasers are also useful but like a light, should be used limitedly and only to your advantage. Having laser on the whole time can give you away just like a light. Having your wife gather kids while you put yourself between them and the possible bg is a good idea as you cover them and keep everybody together. But also make sure she is on the phone calling 911 and telling them you are holding a defensive position with a firearm.

sk8804
07-10-2010, 9:42 PM
M&P .40 loaded with win. ranger t 165 grain. No light, no laser, no night sights. I have 2 dogs

CALATRAVA
10-07-2010, 8:55 PM
was just re-reading all the great info in here...

Gonna likely pick out my piece tomorrow. (Like I said, I've got three kids. It takes me a while to save up several hundred dollars! :D)

frankm
10-07-2010, 10:23 PM
With young kids, you can't really count on them being out of the way of a shotgun. Probably a pistol is best. Layered defense is best like stated above. You can get one of those safes that hang on the bed rail where you push it with your fingers in a certain combination and it pops open, then grab pistol.

J.D.Allen
10-07-2010, 11:21 PM
Seriously, can you get a dog? It does NOT have to be a mastiff or even a beagle. A chihuahua would do just fine. The reason is that the dog does not have to attack the intruder. It just has to let you know that the intruder is there BEFORE he gets in the house. The dog can also let you know where the BG is trying to get in. This way you have time to get the fam wherever you want them, and be ready to nail the BG once they get in the house. A dog has unbelievable ears. Even you just being awake and alert because of the barking BEFORE BG gets in the house is a HUGE advantage.

Just sayin'

Oh, and BTW, many times just the sound of that big ol' shotgun action cycling is enough to scare the BG's away. Then maybe you won't have to shoot. get something with a 18" barrel so it's easier to wield in the house...

rubdub
10-08-2010, 12:05 PM
I'm a fan of low tech solutions.

Instead of NV goggles, invest in some $2 night lights down the hall, in the kitchen, and in the bathrooms. I like the ones that automatically turn on if a) power goes out, or b) it gets dark. This eliminates the need for a weapon light or night sights. Plus, makes it less likely you'll give away your position to an intruder with a flashlight.

Next up is a shotgun. Do A LOT of research on the load you'll use, especially if you have family. Google "box of truth", or "birdshot vs. buckshot". Personally, I'm using #7 birdshot. Anything closer than 10 yards, it's effectively a single projectile that fragments efficiently. 00 buck on the other hand can penetrate 3 full walls (6 sheets of Sheetrock).

Next up is practice. Get out and shoot with that shotgun, get used to its report, kick, and make sure the shells you choose don't have too much smoke..

chesterthehero
10-08-2010, 5:04 PM
with a single story house its REALLY easy to wire in a light in each room that can be turned on by one master switch in one room (IE master bedroom)..
a light is a MUST with children.. you never know when someone is sneeking a cookie, playing fetch with the cat at 3am, looking at the clouds as they go past the moon, whatever.. flipping on a light in everyroom at the same time takes everyone by suprise unless you know its going to happen.. you also dont need to worry about night vision or "flashing" yourself..
it should cost you less than $50 to do this all you need is a drywall saw, some wirenuts, electrical tape, screwdriver, a fishtape and a few hours.. if you want to go really nuts you can add a new $5 light fixture to each room..
im against a weapon mounted light or a flashlight in general (why would you NOT point your gun where the light is shining) for HD when there are children around...
picking up a $100-150 stackon safe (its cheap and DOJ approved.. obviously a better safe is better but even a stackon will keep little fingers off triggers) for the "saferoom" and keeping a shotgun in there is a good idea...
as for moving through the house and gathering children or for HD in general i always vote for a revolver with a shrouded hammer or "hammerless"... s&w, taurus ect all make one.. with a semi auto pistol if it comes to hand to hand/struggle the BG does not have to get the gun away from you to make it useless.. simply putting their hand on it and pushing the slide back 1/4 of an inch disables the gun..
i like the shrouded hammer more simply because you have single action ability.. which (in the longest 2 seconds of your life) gives you the ability to cock the gun (its not as loud as racking a shotgun.. but its a unmistakable sound).. also in the event of a struggle the shrouded hammer/hammerless prettymuch means you can fire even if someone (BG) has their hands on your gun..

ColdDeadHands1
10-08-2010, 7:22 PM
Whatever handgun you select, I recommend you keep in in your nightstand in one of these. I have two kids and three gunvaults in various locations around the house. Used to keep them (not in a vault) in bedside drawer, top kitchen shelf, top of closet, etc. But the kids are now 2 & 5 and I do not want to risk them gaining access. So I strictly never leave a gun out and unlocked. I cannot imagine the life destroying consequences of what could happen.

Check out the options here and shop for the best prices on ebay.

http://www.gunvault.com/
http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/garandman14/gallery2.png

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/garandman14/vault.jpg

happy_gunner
10-08-2010, 7:41 PM
didn't read through everything but if money is not a problem, S&W 325 Thunder ranch, revolver with 6 rds of .45acp(plenty of stopping power) and factory light rail.

Not mine but here you go
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=194185085

evolixsurf
10-08-2010, 8:48 PM
You've got it down except for this.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:qr--FXH3iM3skM:http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7043/photo2vo.jpg&t=1

and no way in the world you want a revolver! The robber will likely have a high cap 9mm!!! Might as well be able to load a couple mags during a fire fight!

Chris J
10-08-2010, 9:04 PM
I have two (11 and 6 year old) kids and have given this a lot of thought. But I guess most of the stuff I'd recommend is up there already, except:

1. If you are going to gather in a hideout spot, make sure it has an exit that will work in the event of fire. Also, along with your "bump in the night" planning, be sure to have a fire exit strategy for everyone, no matter where they are in the house.

2. Know your home really well in the dark. If you haven't lived there long, go ahead and try navigating it in very low light and see how you do. Your knowledge of your home gives you a big advantage over an intruder. Exercise your wife and older children on this, too. If you can light up the whole house using a remote system, fine, but otherwise I'd let it stay dark. Turning on one light at a time will just tell the guy where you are. I'm also not that big a fan of leaving lights on at night for the same reason (although my kids insist on having some night lights).

3. If you must move through the house in the presence of an intruder I suggest keeping low -- hands and knees if you can. You are more likely to see the intruder first if you are down near the floor. Tell your kids to do the same. Hiding under the bed is not a bad idea. But make sure you know what their hiding place is so YOU can find them.

I guess everyone has their chosen home-defense strategy. Mine puts calling 911 at priority one, and everyone in the house except me (armed) staying put; possibly hiding if that's what feels right at the time but I don't want anyone going far. The idea of a safe room is appealing but I think the risk of someone getting attacked or grabbed or just hurting themselves on the way there makes the idea less attractive.

Being a renter makes preparation that much more difficult of course. However, landlords have a responsibility to provide reasonable basic security. If your home does not have sturdy doors and a good deadbolt on every door, get them to fix that. Windows should have locks that work. Outside light fixtures should all work. There are some other basic requirements -- I don't know the current rules -- but basically, if you see an obvious security hole you should talk to your landlord first. Then if you want to add stuff beyond the basics, make sure you have his approval if it requires permanent changes to the dwelling.

glock7
10-08-2010, 9:49 PM
security lights, dogs, reinforced doors, window locks, alarm, strategically placed night lights and HD weapon

CALATRAVA
10-09-2010, 5:06 AM
With young kids, you can't really count on them being out of the way of a shotgun. Probably a pistol is best. Layered defense is best like stated above. You can get one of those safes that hang on the bed rail where you push it with your fingers in a certain combination and it pops open, then grab pistol.

Yup, this is something i've considered, too since my kids are getting taller by the minute.

And yeah, that vault is exactly what i@ve had in the past when we owned handguns and what i plan on getting again.

Just to update y'all, i went with a rock island armory 1911 as my choice for HD. No light for right now, as i plan on installing the "X10" i think it was called, to control my living room and kitchen lights.

Also picked up a combination dial winchester gun safe for storing our collection other than the handgun in its "quick" vault.

Thanks for all the support and insight so far.

glock7
10-09-2010, 7:51 AM
good job calatrava, let me share with you a story that happened two weeks ago to my elderly parents (dad 80, mom 76) my mom's purse was stolen from her and the purse had money, her ID and her house keys. The next night at approximately 1230, my mom heard a grinding, prying type noise in the backyard, she woke my father up and he went to investigate, he turned on the lights to the backyard and looked out of the window no one was there. The next morning, my mom went went outside to have her morning coffee, when she went outside she found crowbar/prybar marks on the door. Moral of the story lights, reinforced doors and good locks will deter a BG in most cases. Oh BTW my 80 yr old dad went to investigate with his .38 revolver.....addendum, we installed motion sensor lights and added an alarm sensor and extra window locks. They live in an excellent area, just goes to show you no one is safe....good luck!

powerstrokemike
10-09-2010, 10:05 AM
1.) Motion sensor lights & maybe a sign that says the home has an alarm.
2.) Locks AND a deadbolt from inside.
3.) Alarm (plenty of options there.)
4.) Dog. Presuming it sleeps inside at night, and train it not to freak out at sound of alarm.
5.) Weapon.

fullrearview
10-09-2010, 10:30 AM
Here is the issue with the revolver. You have 6 shots to hit a MINIMUM of one target. Most Home Invasions include more than one person, and hitting someone who is moving is hard enough, now throw in the fact you just woke up and your adrenaline is stillwaiting to kick in.......See the issues? Even guys who are pros could have trouble manipulating a revolver in that situation.

Revolver is fine if your already in the "Alamo."

While your defending your home, you must do it with an offensive mind set as you need to travel and clear it to get to your kids. You have to leave the safe room as does your wife. YOU NEED LIGHT TO IDENTIFY YOUR TARGETS. I cant stress that enough. without it, you or your wife may shoot one another. Get something with a light rail on it, throw on a quality light with a good strobe.

Next, going back to the capacity issue....Not trying to turn this into a knock down power debate, but you something that has a good capacity as there may be mulitple threats. Get good Ammo, somthing that delivers all of its energy quickly, and wont over penatrate.

Last....I have said this in other HD threads....I dont know if you have a cell phone or a home phone, either way, the top number on the list should be your local departments BACK LINE to emergency services. 911 on a cell phone, each of the 3 times I have called it, has taken 50 seconds or longer, just to get through.....Not good. ANd as Zombie tactics posted in a recent thread, I think its in the LEO section, dispatch must process the call, and that can take up to 4 minutes.....now we are at 5 minutes, and the cops don't even know whats going on!

Have your wife speed dial the back line, set the phone down and then go get the kids.

fullrearview
10-09-2010, 10:34 AM
good job calatrava, let me share with you a story that happened two weeks ago to my elderly parents (dad 80, mom 76) my mom's purse was stolen from her and the purse had money, her ID and her house keys. The next night at approximately 1230, my mom heard a grinding, prying type noise in the backyard, she woke my father up and he went to investigate, he turned on the lights to the backyard and looked out of the window no one was there. The next morning, my mom went went outside to have her morning coffee, when she went outside she found crowbar/prybar marks on the door. Moral of the story lights, reinforced doors and good locks will deter a BG in most cases. Oh BTW my 80 yr old dad went to investigate with his .38 revolver.....addendum, we installed motion sensor lights and added an alarm sensor and extra window locks. They live in an excellent area, just goes to show you no one is safe....good luck!

Yep! In LE, we have been noticing this more and more....We get a lot of vehicle burgs, and at times, I have to ORDER people to go home and cancel everything and change their locks.....Some people, even after getting their stuff stolen, just "cant imagine" it happing again!

Shenaniguns
10-09-2010, 10:54 AM
IMO this is why having both a tac light and handheld w/ landyard is a good option, I use my handheld in my 'weak hand' to help keep me from sweeping my family while I have my firing hand aimed down and ready to transition as needed.

fullrearview
10-09-2010, 11:56 AM
IMO this is why having both a tac light and handheld w/ landyard is a good option, I use my handheld in my 'weak hand' to help keep me from sweeping my family while I have my firing hand aimed down and ready to transition as needed.

Thats true and that works for some.....I find, keeping my weapon in close and at the low ready, I can flick the light on and off, and there is plenty of light to light up th whole room and see everything. For, its one less thing to handle/worry about.

ontmark
10-10-2010, 12:24 PM
Two words: "Layered Defense"

1.) Motion sensor lights & maybe a sign that says the home has an alarm.
2.) Locks AND a deadbolt from inside.
3.) Alarm (plenty of options there.)
4.) Dog. Presuming it sleeps inside at night, and train it not to freak out at sound of alarm.
5.) Weapon. My preference is no light, no laser, no night sights.

Why make your location obvious and ruin your night vision in a place where you could probably walk through it blind and not trip on something?

Side note: Since you have kids please don't assume a "bump" is an intruder, the other layers should help determine if it is an "outside" threat trying to get in...but with kids in the equation (especially teenagers) please be cautious.

Just my cent and a half.
Good advise here
Add my thoughts
I prefer a hand held light to a weapon mounted light.
I have children and three different bedrooms.
They all know that parentí bedroom is the safe haven.
I donít want the muzzle pointed in same direction that the light is pointed as I do room clearings in my house. Just something to consider.

CALATRAVA
10-10-2010, 4:53 PM
Good advise here
Add my thoughts
I prefer a hand held light to a weapon mounted light.
I have children and three different bedrooms.
They all know that parentí bedroom is the safe haven.
I donít want the muzzle pointed in same direction that the light is pointed as I do room clearings in my house. Just something to consider.

This is what i decided is best for me, as a matter of fact.

Gonna pick up a cheap but bright gerber or surefire flashlight with a neck lanyard that i can slip on my neck, or wrap around my weak hand wrist, as i slide out of bed

luckystrike
10-10-2010, 5:21 PM
eh I would NOT want to protect myself and family with a $325 pistol. frugal cheap @ss or talked to someone that "never had any problems and it is a great gun", whatever reason. no way no how.

since your a lefty Id recommend a Beretta 92. if your cool with not having a manual safety Id say sig.

halon101
10-10-2010, 6:45 PM
Honestly, in that situation, I would want a revolver, no light

thats what i have. before i had kids i used my 870. but its too big to keep locked by my bed. i have a mini safe with a 357 7shot in it. i dont really need a light since i know my own house and we leave a few lights on around the house for night lights.

oh yeah and i have a weimaraner and a walker coon hound. weim will eat him and the hound is better than an air horn. lots of noise.