PDA

View Full Version : all CCWs in CA: ~40k; CCWs in 1 FL county: 23k!


Paladin
06-23-2010, 9:49 PM
Re. the below: Those two guys who intervened in those two bank robberies are among the 29 examples I have linked in my sig line. I went thru those 29 examples the other day and could not find a single one where someone, the day before they used their CCW, could articulate a specific need for a CCW that puts them at a higher risk than the average citizen and where such risk cannot be mitigated by some other reasonable means. In other words, ALL 29 would have been denied a CCW in major urban counties in CA for lack of "Good Cause." If that doesn't show CA CLEOs what BS requiring a GC is, nothing will.

My guess is that a LOT of those "snowbirds" who can pack in FL, but not in their home states (e.g., NJ/NY/MD), are going to start pushing for Shall Issue in their home states in their legislatures and/or their courts.

Re. our 40k CCWs vs one FL county having 23k: Folks, as soon as the "Right People" give us the go ahead, we REALLY need to promote applying for CCWs to catch up to FL. Going by: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html I'd guess there are 11M Californians under 21, so that means there are about 26M over 21. Multiply that by 5.5% means we need to have 1,430,000 CCWers in CA to be on par with FL! :D We Calgunners are going to need to do some serious promoting!

*****

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20100620/NEWS01/6200330/1006/Licensed+to+carry+a+weapon

http://cmsimg.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=A9&Date=20100620&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=6200330&Ref=AR&Profile=1006&MaxW=318&Border=0

Kathryn Beckman, owner of the The Gun Lady shop at 2137 North Courtenay Parkway, Merritt Island, carries two guns at all times -- a 9mm Taurus PT-III and a concealed 9mm Kahr PM-9 with crimson trace laser. (Craig Rubadoux, FLORIDA TODAY)

Concealed per capita

Number of concealed weapons permits for every 100 residents in Brevard and neighboring counties ages 21 years and over.
BREVARD: 5.81
VOLUSIA: 5.64
OSCEOLA: 5.36
INDIAN RIVER: 5.24
ORANGE: 4.81
SEMINOLE: 4.47
Sources: Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services and U.S. Census Bureau

More gun owners

While Florida regulates concealed weapons, it defers to federal law on ownership. Numbers of gun owners in Florida are not available, but one indicator is the number of mandatory federal background checks done on prospective firearms buyers.
According to an FBI database, the number of background checks in Florida increased by about 50 percent from 2005 to 2009, from 370,645 to 556,540.
This does not reflect how many people went ahead with purchases nor how many were rejected.

Number of concealed weapons holders in Brevard soars

BY KAUSTUV BASU • FLORIDA TODAY • June 20, 2010

The 62-year-old man ran to his car in the parking lot of a Space Coast Credit Union in Palm Bay to get his gun after he saw a robber with a grocery bag on his head slip a note to the teller. He held the man at gunpoint until help arrived.

A day later, a 37-year-old man with a handgun chased after an alleged robber at a Riverside National Bank in Titusville and caught him in the woods.

The citizens who helped take down the criminal suspects earlier this year are among a record number of Brevard County residents who hold permits to carry concealed weapons. A FLORIDA TODAY study of recent state statistics shows about one in 18 adults in Brevard 21 years and older has such a permit.

That's more than 23,000 people, making it more likely that the witness to a crime in progress may possess the means -- a weapon -- to try to stop it.

Experts point to changes in state gun laws over the past decade that made the permits increasingly desirable, including agreements with other states to honor Florida's certifications -- appealing to the large snowbird population.

But the same experts and some permit holders attribute spikes in the past few years to fears that the Obama administration would tighten federal gun laws.

University of Central Florida criminal justice professor Ross Wolf cited "growing distrust in the government" as a reason.

"With the change in national leadership, there was a fear that firearms laws would be changed," Wolf said, adding that people might believe they'd be "grandfathered in" and allowed to keep the permits.

Wolf said the prolonged recession might have played a part, too, as people worry about increased crime during bad economic times.

"I got one because my boyfriend was getting one. The big reason was President Obama's potential ban on rifles," said Megan Philman, 26, of Melbourne. "With the permit, we can carry the weapons in our car, motorcycle and on trips."

She said she wanted to be able to protect herself. Kathryn Beckman, 32, of Merritt Island agreed. She got a permit -- as did her husband -- in May 2006.

"I felt I would have extra protection if I was car-jacked or attacked in the street," said Beckman, who since has decided to open a gun store on Merritt Island. "You never know what is going to happen."

The statistics from the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services show about 5.8 percent of Brevard's population ages 21 and over had permits at the end of May.

Statewide, about 5.4 percent of the population in that age group have concealed permits.

In the fiscal year 2005-06, 12,554 residents were permitted to carry concealed weapons in Brevard. At the end of May this year, that number had jumped to 23,616.

That's an increase of almost 90 percent, which mirrors the increase statewide.

'Right to carry' state

A permit to carry a concealed weapon is valid for seven years and costs $117. Applicants must be 21 and over, agree to a background check -- including fingerprinting -- and take a firearms class that lasts four to 10 hours.

Classes educate students about gun laws and rights, gun operation and safety.

Wolf said Florida is among the "right to carry" states, which means applications for permits to carry concealed weapons rarely are denied. Some other states may have more stringent requirements.

"In New York, which is a good example, you actually have to show why you have a need to carry it," he said. "That your need is necessary. They make you prove why you need them."

Wolf said thirty-four states have reciprocal rights with Florida when it comes to concealed weapons permits. That means a permit issued here is valid in those states.

Increased privacy

Florida passed its first uniform concealed weapons law in 1987, said Terence McElroy, spokesman for the Agriculture and Consumer Services Department in Tallahassee.

Before that, "it was generally the sheriff's office that decided who would be given a concealed weapons permit," he said.

The consumer services department began regulating the licenses in 2000.

McElroy said two important recent changes in state law reduced restrictions and increased privacy for those holding a concealed weapons permit.

In July 2008, the Legislature voted to allow permit holders to keep weapons in their vehicles at workplaces.

And a vote in 2006 protects the names of people who have concealed weapons permits. The change came about in part because an Orlando TV station put a searchable database of permits in Central Florida on its website, according to a newspaper report.

McElroy said lawmakers were worried that women who got permits to protect themselves in abusive situations would have their names and addresses revealed.

"The Legislature felt the privacy rights of people were being abused," he said.

Gun safety key

Law enforcement officers uphold citizens' rights to carry weapons and commend those who help in the fight against crime, but they also stress the need for gun safety.

Titusville Police Department's Assistant Chief John Lau stressed the need for gun safety.

"We do not urge people to take the risk (of taking on criminals) themselves," said Titusville Police Department's Assistant Chief John Lau. "But we are proud of people like that. With the amount of violent crime, I can understand the public wanting to arm themselves.

"We encourage citizens to take as many classes as they can so that they can be safe with their guns. One thing to remember, the bad guys will have the guns regardless."

Contact Basu at 242-3724 or kbasu@floridatoday.com.

Crom
06-23-2010, 10:27 PM
That was a great read. It does give me hope for us. thanks for posting.

Untamed1972
06-24-2010, 8:27 AM
If those people had had CCWs in CA they would prolly have them revoked for chasing down a bank robber because they would claim that since he was running away their life wasn't in danger and at that point they were brandishing.

But this does go to show that if you really want to curtail crime, make it so criminals needs to worry about everyone around them, not just COPs were might be there or are no where near by.

Untamed1972
06-24-2010, 8:33 AM
"Law enforcement officers uphold citizens' rights to carry weapons and commend those who help in the fight against crime, but they also stress the need for gun safety.

Titusville Police Department's Assistant Chief John Lau stressed the need for gun safety.

"We do not urge people to take the risk (of taking on criminals) themselves," said Titusville Police Department's Assistant Chief John Lau. "But we are proud of people like that. With the amount of violent crime, I can understand the public wanting to arm themselves.

"We encourage citizens to take as many classes as they can so that they can be safe with their guns. One thing to remember, the bad guys will have the guns regardless."

You can definitely see the difference in LE culture there vs. what it is here in CA. I'd friggin' fall off my chair the day I hear a CA CLEO make a statement like that. Nice to see that citizens are still respected and supported at least someplace in this country.

Roadrunner
06-24-2010, 9:03 AM
I think Rob Jackson, Captain of Turlock Police Department said it best to me when he had a moment of honesty. In essence he said that police are trained to view anyone other than police, who have a firearm on them, as being a threat. He also said that police officers like him have held that mindset for so long that it is difficult for them to switch gears and accept average citizens like you and I carrying a firearm concealed or openly. So, it would seem that measures that force police out of that mindset are in order, to enable more law abiding citizens to carry without the threat of harassment everytime a law abiding citizen with a firearm is confronted. I believe that will require more regulation placed on the police, or powers currently given to them, to be taken away, so that they don't have that compulsion to treat people like common criminals. Perhaps stricter guidelines should be drawn that better define how they behave. The bottom line is that, regardless of how much of our rights we get back with McDonald and subsequent court decisions, we know that some police can and will do things that inhibit our forward progress in regaining all of our second amendment rights in California. And that includes making allegations of rationalized criminal conduct against a law abiding citizen when possible, as a way of restricting or prohibiting a person from carrying a gun in public.

Understand this, I have a great deal of appreciation for people who choose to work in the wee hours of the morning and drive around in a car quite literally looking for trouble. And I appreciate all that the legal minds are doing to straighten out the mess that is our current gun laws. But as Captain Jackson has so indicated, until police, from the cop on the street to the Chief and Sheriff are given firm orders by the people that they are prohibited from treating people like has been demonstrated in the dozens of You Tube videos, things won't change much. They will simply adopt new tactics to continue to operate business as usual.

dbldblu
06-24-2010, 5:25 PM
When I took the CCW class here in Reno, they said that 7% of the Washoe county populace has such a permit. That is roughly 1 in 15.

BobB35
06-24-2010, 7:34 PM
I think Rob Jackson, Captain of Turlock Police Department said it best to me when he had a moment of honesty. In essence he said that police are trained to view anyone other than police, who have a firearm on them, as being a threat. He also said that police officers like him have held that mindset for so long that it is difficult for them to switch gears and accept average citizens like you and I carrying a firearm concealed or openly. So, it would seem that measures that force police out of that mindset are in order, to enable more law abiding citizens to carry without the threat of harassment everytime a law abiding citizen with a firearm is confronted. I believe that will require more regulation placed on the police, or powers currently given to them, to be taken away, so that they don't have that compulsion to treat people like common criminals. Perhaps stricter guidelines should be drawn that better define how they behave. The bottom line is that, regardless of how much of our rights we get back with McDonald and subsequent court decisions, we know that some police can and will do things that inhibit our forward progress in regaining all of our second amendment rights in California. And that includes making allegations of rationalized criminal conduct against a law abiding citizen when possible, as a way of restricting or prohibiting a person from carrying a gun in public.

Understand this, I have a great deal of appreciation for people who choose to work in the wee hours of the morning and drive around in a car quite literally looking for trouble. And I appreciate all that the legal minds are doing to straighten out the mess that is our current gun laws. But as Captain Jackson has so indicated, until police, from the cop on the street to the Chief and Sheriff are given firm orders by the people that they are prohibited from treating people like has been demonstrated in the dozens of You Tube videos, things won't change much. They will simply adopt new tactics to continue to operate business as usual.


I don't quite think it is the training. Police in 40 other states deal with people with CCW's all the time, so I doubt it is the training. I am going to go with the us vs. them mindset. Now that is something that is alive and kicking in good ole. Cali in a big way. How are you going to change that...Courts...that's it. Sue them until it hurts, is the only way they will learn.

REH
06-24-2010, 8:03 PM
You can see the different attitudes county by county in this state. A county with a high percent of ccw, the us vs. them is lower. Take a county like Sacramento and it's a whole differant story.

thebronze
06-24-2010, 8:13 PM
You can see the different attitudes county by county in this state. A county with a high percent of ccw, the us vs. them is lower. Take a county like Sacramento and it's a whole differant story.

This.

gunsmith
06-24-2010, 8:53 PM
great read! thanks for posting it

Paladin
06-24-2010, 9:01 PM
Re. our 40k CCWs vs one FL county having 23k: Folks, as soon as the "Right People" give us the go ahead, we REALLY need to promote applying for CCWs to catch up to FL. Going by: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06000.html I'd guess there are 11M Californians under 21, so that means there are about 26M over 21. Multiply that by 5.5% means we need to have 1,430,000 CCWers in CA to be on par with FL! :D We Calgunners are going to need to do some serious promoting!
I hope CGN leadership (along w/the NRA/CalNRA; CRPA; and others), are planning a blitz to get Californians to apply for CCWs once they're no longer being unreasonably being denied. We've got to increase the number of CCWers by 35x to get from where we are to where FL is. The faster we do that, the faster violent crime will decrease in this state and the stronger the correlation between going de facto Shall Issue ("More Guns"), and that reduction in violent crime ("Less Crime"). We'll become an example and motivation for the rest of the "last holdout" Non-Shall Issue states.

Untamed1972
06-24-2010, 9:32 PM
I don't quite think it is the training. Police in 40 other states deal with people with CCW's all the time, so I doubt it is the training. I am going to go with the us vs. them mindset. Now that is something that is alive and kicking in good ole. Cali in a big way. How are you going to change that...Courts...that's it. Sue them until it hurts, is the only way they will learn.

CA LEOs generally are trained in CA academies, they ARE trained that way in CA academies and then it is reinforced during field training and thru dept. policy. Not all LEOs are trained the same in different states.

Imagine how different the training hasta be at AZ academies where the laws are different. Sure, basic officer safety training is prolly much the same, but how they are taught t treat people they find with guns hasta be quite different because citizens are allowed to be armed by law, so you can't just go jackin' people up cuz they have guns.

GuyW
06-24-2010, 11:07 PM
Florida is in Free America - nothing in common with the Peoples Republik...
.

winnre
06-25-2010, 9:22 AM
Gawd I miss Florida.