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View Full Version : WARNING: Do not buy anything from Roggio Arsenal, here is why


Reconsnake
06-23-2010, 2:29 PM
This is the stuation I have had over the past few months, with still no resolution at all.

Sent Feb 25th, 2010 first, then with no reply resent on Tues March 2nd, 2010

Hello, My name is XXXX XXXX. I purchased a lower receiver about 12 months ago, and it has been one problem after another. All together, a group of friends and I, purchased a total of 6 of these lowers. Each of these has proved to be difficult to assemble, after having the personal experience of assembling more than 100 lowers from varying manufacturers. The first issue we found, was the buffer tube hole was completely out of spec, so much so, that I purchased a tap for the correct size. After waiting two full months, for the only available tap in the correct size, to get here by ship from overseas, I was able to rectify that issue myself, for a mere $90. Now buffer tubes work perfectly in the lower. Last week, I purchased a DPMS complete upper receiver for this lower. This complete upper, would not fit my lower. I went back to the shop that I purchased the complete DPMS upper from, and they took 6 other uppers, which contained manufacturers CMMG, Bushmaster, DPMS, Del-ton, and DS Arms, and none of those fit either. I have had enough. The store tried to assist me, and took a file to try and get the DPMS upper and my lower to fit correctly, and they eventually succeded. However, no matter what they did, it still does not sit properly on the lower. Once any upper is on my lower, removing the rear takedown pin is impossible without tools. It cannot be done by hand. I am done with it at this point. I would like to know if I have any options at this point. I have heard nothing but good things about Roggio, but now I am second guessing those. I am including pictures of the amount of material that was removed from the buffer tube hole when I ran the tap through it, it will surprise you.

Model XXXX
Serial XXXX

Please help
(My contact info)

Reply from Roggio Mar 3rd, 2010

First of all let me apologize for not returning the first email. I had written a reply but evidently I did not send it because I do not see the reply symbol next to your email.

By all means please send these problem receivers back to us and we will take care of them. We do stand behind our lowers so we will be glad to take a look at them.

Please send them directly to us at:

Roggio Arsenal
822 Shannon Dr.
Fayetteville, NC 28303

Please include the description of the problem and list of any parts that are sent with them.

Sorry for the inconvenience,

XXXX XXXX

My reply sent Wed Mar 31st, 2010

Hello! According to UPS tracking info XXX, "XXXX" signed for my lower receiver on 3/10/2010. I was wondering if there is a status update on if it can be fixed, or replaced? I left my info attached to the lower, and haven't heard anything yet.

Thank you in advance,
XXXX

My reply sent Wed Apr 14th, 2010

I am looking for an update, with at least a confirmation that you in fact have my lower receiver. It has been more than a month since a person named "XXXX" signed for the package at your site. I have placed three calls to the phone number on your website, and have not been able to talk with anyone, nor leave a message because the voicemail states " it is full" and disconnects me. Any information would be appreciated. At this point, I don't know if you guys have my receiver, and because it is registered to me, and I do not have it, and I cannot verify that you do, I am required to report to the department of justice that it has been stolen. Before I do that, I wanted to give you one last opportunity to contact me. Call or email please.

My reply sent Apr 16th, 2010

Today, April 16th 2010, is exactly 37 days since UPS(tracking XXXX) states "XXXX" signed for my lower receiver, on 3/10/2010. I have had zero response from three previous emails, and numerous phones calls, which all end up being disconnected due to a full voicemail box. One week from today, on Friday 4/23/2010, I will be reporting the receiver stolen to the Department of Justice if I have not heard anything from you. I do not have the receiver, and cannot verify that you do, and because I am legally responsible for it, that is the only choice I have left.

Reply from Roggio sent Apr 22nd, 2010

Mr. XXXX,

We do indeed have your receiver. It is at the finishing shop now. I went and put my hands on it just to make sure. I also fitted a Colt upper to it without an issue so it is repaired. I see no reason why you should not get it next week.

I apologize for the inconvenience.

XXXX

My reply sent Apr 22nd, 2010

Thank you very much!


My reply sent May 9th, 2010

Has the receiver been shipped out yet? If so, I have not received it.


My reply sent May 23rd, 2010

It has been over a month since your last email stating the lower was being finished up, and should be to me within a week. Any update?

My reply sent June 5th, 2010

I still have not received anything, not even an email response since April 22nd. You have had my lower receiver since March 10th 2010. I can't imagine it takes three months to address the issues I had; even if the part was scrapped altogether, it doesn't take three months to make a new one. Furthermore, if you pay people hourly, and you were even working on my lower, you have about $24 million dollars into it by now. What do I do from this point? You have my property, and will hardly acknowledge my emails, let alone return my property that you made incorrectly to begin with. I am going to allow one week, before I explain on internet forums, and post this entire conversation and lack of customer service. You have until Friday June 11th 2010 to resolve this situation.

Today, June 23rd, 2010, have not heard anything at all. Do not do business with Roggio Arms for any reason. You have been warned.

Josh3239
06-23-2010, 2:35 PM
That sucks, sorry to hear. Btw, unless that lower is a pistol it is not registered to you. Neither CA nor the feds register rifles to Californians.

rmasold
06-23-2010, 2:36 PM
I think I posted something about these jokers a while back, GOOD LUCK.... I wil find the post.

rmasold
06-23-2010, 2:38 PM
This was it. Have fun http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=187289&highlight=rmasold

Masterdebater
06-23-2010, 2:41 PM
report it stolen. that will put a fire under their ***. ive heard of things like this happening i would be lit...

Veggie
06-23-2010, 2:42 PM
Sounds like it is time to send this to your bank/cc company to get your money back maybe even a small claims suit.

tacticalcity
06-23-2010, 2:56 PM
If you do not get an answer soon you can get your bank to reverse the charges for non-reciept of goods. Had people do it to me even when they had received their goods. Frustrating as all heck. But if they are truly screwing you over, you do not have to sit still for it.

I had a lot of customers try and return stocks because they claimed the threads were reversed on our stock tubes (various brands and models which did not make sense). It turned out they had lowers from this brand with reversed threads. We only discovered this when we allowed the first complaining customer to return his stock at our expense, only to discover it was perfectly fine but now in "used" condition as the threads were marked from his efforts to install it. We contacted him and asked what brand lower he had, and found an post online where somebody had discovered the problem was with their lowers. We tried to explain that the problem was with his lower, but he refused to accept his stock back as it was marked up (by him), he had ordered one from a different company already and he insisted we were wrong. We let it slide as not to make things worse. Every complaintant since that point about the threads being reversed had the same brand lower. So obviously, we had to tell them we could not accept the stocks as a return and explain the problem was their lower...not something they wanted to hear after they paid over $100 for it, and who knows what in DROS fees and taxes. I of course was not happy because I lost both time and money as a result of another company's mistake and had no way to recoup that money. It wasn't nearly as big a deal for me as it was for my customers stuck with unusuable lowers.

From what I understand, they solved that problem fairly quickly. So it was more frustrating than anything else.

Reconsnake
06-23-2010, 3:02 PM
Quick update: I forwarded a link to Roggio on both their office and sales email addresses... both bounced back undeliverable. Looks like I may be screwed. I also filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau a minute ago, since I am afraid they may be out of business.

Jason_2111
06-23-2010, 3:48 PM
Thanks for the warning! Sorry you found the turd in the punchbowl. :(

NeoWeird
06-23-2010, 4:42 PM
Sorry to hear that. I have a feeling they are a VERY small shop and probably don't have the proper procedures set in place to keep things like this moving. It's probably more of a "once a month we send parts out for X, and then fill in back orders as shipments come in" type of place. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a poor way to run this type of business. Hopefully it's just a breakdown of communication and nothing more and you will get squared away before it's all over.

That sucks, sorry to hear. Btw, unless that lower is a pistol it is not registered to you. Neither CA nor the feds register rifles to Californians.

While true, ANY dealer that has had their hands on it, as well as the manufacturer, are required by law to keep those records and submit them to the ATF when their business closes or at the expiration of their license. If firearm X needed to be investigated for any reason, it would be simple case of follow the audits (which happen regularly anyways) to the last person it was known to be with.

So just because it's not registered in a centeral database, it's still a GREAT idea to have a paper trail for any firearms you ever sell, even if gone through an FFL, so you can point the proper people in the proper direction if they need to.

evidens83
06-23-2010, 5:05 PM
Wow that sucks! Goodluck

Capt_Communist
06-23-2010, 5:24 PM
Other option may be to post something in the CalGunners in Service forum... this outfit is right by Bragg and maybe they could check it out for you and maybe help.

just spit-balling

Good luck with this

slomofo
06-23-2010, 5:33 PM
You should've done a search on arfcom for roggio arms prior to purchase. If you would've done that, you would've seen their name pop up alongside hesse/vulcan/blackthorne with numerous complaints about shoddy quality.

Reconsnake
06-23-2010, 6:20 PM
Good thoughts from everybody, and yes, I should have done some research prior to the purchase. This purchase was during some of the panic-buying that was going on, and lowers were very tough to get, at any price. I think I will take some of your advice. Thanks for all the help and ideas.

Ding126
06-23-2010, 6:30 PM
To put so much effort in trying to replace a defective item sure sucks. Sorry it happend.

shark92651
06-23-2010, 7:01 PM
If you bought by credit card I would just call your CC company and see if they will do a chargeback at this point. There is being patient and understanding when a company is busy and trying to do the right thing, and then there is a point where it is getting ridiculous. They are at that point right now and I don't see why you need to give them any more time. Their name is Roggio Arsenal, by the way, in case you want to update your thread title.

I got hosed by a company in FL that I had sent parts to for AR pistol builds, when they suddenly dropped off the radar and went out of business. Despite promises to ship the parts back to me they never arrived and the owner is now impossible to reach.

Z ME FLY
06-23-2010, 7:03 PM
If you bought by credit card I would just call your CC company and see if they will do a chargeback at this point. There is being patient and understanding when a company is busy and trying to do the right thing, and then there is a point where it is getting ridiculous. They are at that point right now and I don't see why you need to give them any more time. Their name is Roggio Arsenal, by the way, in case you want to update your thread title.

I got hosed by a company in FL that I had sent parts to for AR pistol builds, when they suddenly dropped off the radar and went out of business. Despite promises to ship the parts back to me they never arrived and the owner is now impossible to reach.

It sucks because Wells Fargo only allows charge backs within 60 days.. I have tried before..

RedDawn
06-23-2010, 7:11 PM
Sorry about your situation. I'll pass this on to everyone I meet.

shark92651
06-23-2010, 7:28 PM
It sucks because Wells Fargo only allows charge backs within 60 days.. I have tried before..

Yeah, the OP may be screwed - I would never try to repair an item like that, especially if it required something like re-tapping the receiver. Should have sent it back immediately and then contacted the CC company for a chargeback if replacement/refund had not arrived before the 90 day mark.

TurboChrisB
06-23-2010, 10:48 PM
That SUCKS....sorry to hear about it....

Reconsnake
06-23-2010, 11:25 PM
Thanks again everybody. I think if it helps one person not get screwed, then something good came out of a bad situation. I don't think I have many options available to me, being that it was so long ago, but may be worth investigating to say the least. Also, updated the title to reflect the company's correct name.

Gh0sT
06-24-2010, 1:55 AM
Another one to the blacklist...

rmasold
06-24-2010, 12:26 PM
Lets kep this fresh

thrillhouse700
06-24-2010, 1:06 PM
I'm bored so I will email them.

dirtnap
06-24-2010, 1:16 PM
Damn that sucks, chin up dude...consider it a lesson( whatever thats worth).

Marlin Hunter
06-24-2010, 1:25 PM
That sucks, sorry to hear. Btw, unless that lower is a pistol it is not registered to you. Neither CA nor the feds register rifles to Californians.


As someone already said, that is not 100% true. Your 4473 links you to the gun. If your gun (rifle) was found at the scene of a murder, you would get a visit from a group of overweight balding men in cheap suits within a day or two. Or maybe a delivery truck full of Ninjas with MP-5SDs would stop by your house to show you there neat toys, and discuss the latest fashions in tactical gear. :chris:

shark92651
06-24-2010, 4:22 PM
From what I can gather they are out of business.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=684686

sideshowhr
06-24-2010, 4:25 PM
i've had bad luck with communication with roggio as well.

keep us updated.

Z ME FLY
06-24-2010, 5:15 PM
Also when I saw Roggio lowers for about $50 at one place online I did some more research and found what the OP did. Out of spec.. Not worth having.

chino
06-24-2010, 10:05 PM
FWIW, the website is registered to:

James Ripley. Is this the person you talked to? If it is, doing a bit of searching you'll find a James W Ripley in Fayetteville that may be the same individual.


Domain Name: ROGGIOARSENALUSA.COM
Created on: 31-May-09
Expires on: 31-May-14
Last Updated on: 31-May-09

Administrative Contact:
Ripley, James
439 Westwood Shopping Ctr. #229
Fayetteville, North Carolina 28314
United States
+1.9104879849 Fax --

Technical Contact:
Ripley, James
439 Westwood Shopping Ctr. #229
Fayetteville, North Carolina 28314
United States
+1.9104879849 Fax --

Domain servers in listed order:
NS03.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
NS04.DOMAINCONTROL.COM

Reconsnake
06-24-2010, 10:41 PM
Awesome! The only people I have ever been able to get any sort of communication from were "Jim" and "Heather". So far, it looks like my lower is the least of their problems if they are indeed out of business. I bet Jim just might be our James :)

CrazyJeep
06-24-2010, 11:17 PM
I got hosed by a company in FL that I had sent parts to for AR pistol builds, when they suddenly dropped off the radar and went out of business. Despite promises to ship the parts back to me they never arrived and the owner is now impossible to reach.

Not to hijack this thread, but that sounds like Dana Reed in FL.

Ron-Solo
06-24-2010, 11:46 PM
report it stolen. that will put a fire under their ***. ive heard of things like this happening i would be lit...

Reporting it "stolen" would amount to a crime, since this is a civil business dispute.

SJgunguy24
06-24-2010, 11:58 PM
Reporting it "stolen" would amount to a crime, since this is a civil business dispute.

Just a question Ron, this involves a shipment to an FFL. I do know theft of any shipment of serialized receivers to or from an FFL makes that a federal crime. Would reporting this to the ATF be a better route?

Cherns
06-25-2010, 12:25 AM
so sorry to hear about the bad luck, thanks for letting us all know.

thrillhouse700
06-25-2010, 1:27 AM
Yeah I emailed them and got the same error msg. Looks like they are gone. Report them to EVERYONE. Make sure you have some sort of paper trail proving you are not in possession of your lower "Just in case."

Twystd1
06-25-2010, 7:32 AM
If you did pay with a credit card.
YES you can charge it back IF the merchants CC processing bank still has funds to cover the purchase.
Cause this was fraud. And the 60 day contractual VISA / MC agreement doesn't hold in this instance. Fraud trumps the 60 day C/B deal.
And how do I know this you may ask?
I do this for a living.

Twystd1

shark92651
06-25-2010, 7:43 AM
Not to hijack this thread, but that sounds like Dana Reed in FL.

No, it was John Krueger at Anvil Arms.

Ron-Solo
06-25-2010, 8:00 AM
Just a question Ron, this involves a shipment to an FFL. I do know theft of any shipment of serialized receivers to or from an FFL makes that a federal crime. Would reporting this to the ATF be a better route?

I would report it to the ATF. It's not really a theft of a shipment since the FFL acknowledged that he received it, so filing a claim on the carrier is out also.

ATF may not have been advised they have gone out of business and they may be using their license under another DBA since the license may be issued to an individual. ATF will be all over that, and there may be a criminal federal violaton in that arena.

It may evolve into an embezzlement, which is very hard to prosecute, especially across state lines. You have to be able to prove they had the specific intent to deprive the OP of his property before it was sent, which will be almost impossible to prove at a state level.

This is similar to some of the problems with "Freakshow Manufacturing" on several group buys thru Calguns. People sent him money and he got in over his head and couldn't deliver the goods as promised. It is wrong and unethical, but it is a civil matter, not criminal.

Small claims court doesn't work well with an out of state party either. You can serve them with papers if you can find them, but you will never get them to come to California to appear in court. They will not extradite across state lines on a civil warrant. (We cant get misdemeanor warrants served out of state and some felonies are tough enough)

It is a sad situation and the OP will probably never see his lower or money again. It is happening a lot in this economy. The sellers had good intentions when they started, but got in over their heads and have jumped ship. This is especially common with sellers that bought/made materials or goods when the prices were high and now the bubble has burst, everything they sell is at a loss. You can't stay in business long that way.

If the deal sounds too good, walk away or be aware of the risks you are taking. I use a CC for as much as possible because of the protections they offer. You just have to be aware of the time deadlines. While vendors hate AmEx, they are the best at protecting the customer.

Aloha,

Ron

SJgunguy24
06-25-2010, 8:13 AM
Thanks Ron, I always feel like I can trust your advice, I will make sure to keep this for future reference.
To the OP, take this info and run with it. Make a few calls and see what happens.



I would report it to the ATF. It's not really a theft of a shipment since the FFL acknowledged that he received it, so filing a claim on the carrier is out also.

ATF may not have been advised they have gone out of business and they may be using their license under another DBA since the license may be issued to an individual. ATF will be all over that, and there may be a criminal federal violaton in that arena.

It may evolve into an embezzlement, which is very hard to prosecute, especially across state lines. You have to be able to prove they had the specific intent to deprive the OP of his property before it was sent, which will be almost impossible to prove at a state level.

This is similar to some of the problems with "Freakshow Manufacturing" on several group buys thru Calguns. People sent him money and he got in over his head and couldn't deliver the goods as promised. It is wrong and unethical, but it is a civil matter, not criminal.

Small claims court doesn't work well with an out of state party either. You can serve them with papers if you can find them, but you will never get them to come to California to appear in court. They will not extradite across state lines on a civil warrant. (We cant get misdemeanor warrants served out of state and some felonies are tough enough)

It is a sad situation and the OP will probably never see his lower or money again. It is happening a lot in this economy. The sellers had good intentions when they started, but got in over their heads and have jumped ship. This is especially common with sellers that bought/made materials or goods when the prices were high and now the bubble has burst, everything they sell is at a loss. You can't stay in business long that way.

If the deal sounds too good, walk away or be aware of the risks you are taking. I use a CC for as much as possible because of the protections they offer. You just have to be aware of the time deadlines. While vendors hate AmEx, they are the best at protecting the customer.

Aloha,

Ron

Reconsnake
06-25-2010, 10:52 PM
Thank you. I am going to report this to the ATF, because at the very least, I want nothing more to do legally with that firearm. I appreciate all the input.

rmasold
06-26-2010, 9:36 AM
bump it up

ohlone
10-16-2010, 6:51 PM
just saw this post, i got a roggio arsenal lower from while back, built it with DTI LPK and a UTG 6 pos stock, only tired it few times with a DTI middy upper + .22 conv few times, didn't see problem. recently i saw some bad about it around the net, i checked the one i have, here is what i foudn out

1. it only takes UTG commercial tube, no other tube fits in
2. mag well is out of spec, but mag can be inserted with a bit power

i heard from a friend that river city in sac still selling it....

Carsgunsandchics
10-16-2010, 8:34 PM
i heard from a friend that river city in sac still selling it....

As of a week or so ago this is true. Still putting them on the shelf.

frankm
10-16-2010, 9:30 PM
I hope you reported your receiver as stolen to the ATF. You're on the hook if something happens. Better get with it.

bridgeport
10-17-2010, 8:43 AM
The BBB is neither a governmental agency, nor is it there to help you.

http://www.thebluesmokeband.com/bbb.php

The better business "Bureau" exists to support itself.