PDA

View Full Version : Serious stupidity... Remedy?


Adehtla
06-23-2010, 12:47 AM
Disclaimer: Because I know people on CGN are more than happy to point out when someone is doing, has done, will do something stupid... Save it. This isn't me I'm talking about, and I've already informed the person they're an idiot.

A person I'm acquainted with did something ridiculously stupid a few years back: they (in CA) bought a handgun directly from a friend (in CA), no FFL involved. To compound the problem, this "friend" received the firearm from their uncle (in some other state). Yeah, seriously bad stuff going on here.

Now, my acquaintance wants to keep the gun and is searching for a way to legally keep it. I laughed at the remark openly, but they were serious.

I told them their choices were:
* Destroy the firearm
* Tell the police they found a gun and wanted to turn it in
* Go back to their friend's uncle, get him to come to CA where they can conduct a PPT (the firearm is on the Roster).

Did I miss anything?

johnthomas
06-23-2010, 1:03 AM
There is a way an FFL 01 can acquire the firearm and PPT it back.
This is something you have to ask one of the FFL dealers on the forum. Maybe one of the dealers will step up and answer your question.

Scratch705
06-23-2010, 1:08 AM
the last choice seems it is most logical if they want to keep the gun. get the uncle to come to CA to do a PPT to the current owner and just don't mention the undocumented selling that happened.

Serpentine
06-23-2010, 1:31 AM
The uncle who is the legal owner is out of state. He cannot come here to do a PPT because he is not a CA resident.

What can possibly be done is to send the item back to the Uncle's local 01FFL, then (if it's on the CA Roster), the Uncle ships it back to the nephew's local 01FFL for CA DROS transfer.



.



.

Adehtla
06-23-2010, 2:02 AM
The uncle who is the legal owner is out of state. He cannot come here to do a PPT because he is not a CA resident.

What can possibly be done is to send the item back to the Uncle's local 01FFL, then (if it's on the CA Roster), the Uncle ships it back to the nephew's local 01FFL for CA DROS transfer.

Forgot about the uncle having to go through a local 01FFL. Thanks for pointing that out!

randy
06-23-2010, 3:25 AM
Take the firearm to an FFL do a pawn shop transation. Wait 30 days for the cops to make sure it's not stolen then do a gun shop transfer to yourself. It will cost a few bucks but not that much.

Adehtla
06-23-2010, 7:08 AM
Take the firearm to an FFL do a pawn shop transation. Wait 30 days for the cops to make sure it's not stolen then do a gun shop transfer to yourself. It will cost a few bucks but not that much.

Just so I know I'm reading this right... Pawn it, let it clear, then buy it back?

Edit: Just my $0.02... Seems like a loop-hole to me. I'd rather not tell this guy about this method if that's what it is.

M1A Rifleman
06-23-2010, 8:07 AM
Just my opinion, but it seems pretty "stupid" to air these types of incidents publically on this site.

M. D. Van Norman
06-23-2010, 8:28 AM
An FFL dealer can legally receive a firearm from anyone anywhere in the United States.

Adehtla
06-23-2010, 8:32 AM
Just my opinion, but it seems pretty "stupid" to air these types of incidents publically on this site.

If I was the one who did it (and there's no way in hell I would), then you're right, it would be stupid to post, I agree.

If you're meaning was more to the point of "so people don't use it against gun owners in general", I see your point. But, at the same time it shows that the responsible gun owners are looking after the less then responsible. And in the case of criminals (which you're undoubtedly think we'd be compared to), they don't give a rat's *** to begin with.

Decoligny
06-23-2010, 8:34 AM
Disclaimer: Because I know people on CGN are more than happy to point out when someone is doing, has done, will do something stupid... Save it. This isn't me I'm talking about, and I've already informed the person they're an idiot.

A person I'm acquainted with did something ridiculously stupid a few years back: they (in CA) bought a handgun directly from a friend (in CA), no FFL involved. To compound the problem, this "friend" received the firearm from their uncle (in some other state). Yeah, seriously bad stuff going on here.

Now, my acquaintance wants to keep the gun and is searching for a way to legally keep it. I laughed at the remark openly, but they were serious.

I told them their choices were:
* Destroy the firearm
* Tell the police they found a gun and wanted to turn it in
* Go back to their friend's uncle, get him to come to CA where they can conduct a PPT (the firearm is on the Roster).

Did I miss anything?

How long ago is "a few years back"?

If it is beyond the statute of limitations, then the only thing he needs to do is fill out the paperwork and send it in with $19.00.

Barabas
06-23-2010, 8:35 AM
How long ago did this transaction happen?

Edit: Decoligny beat me to it and gave the advice I would have given if enough time had gone by.

Adehtla
06-23-2010, 8:39 AM
How long ago is "a few years back"?

If it is beyond the statute of limitations, then the only thing he needs to do is fill out the paperwork and send it in with $19.00.

From what I recall, the purchase was made some time between two and three years ago.

Decoligny
06-23-2010, 10:23 AM
From what I recall, the purchase was made some time between two and three years ago.

The statute of limitations in California is as follows:

Misdemeanors = 1 year
Felonies with possible sentence under 8 years = 3 years


The Federal statute of limitations for non-capital crimes = 5 years

Adehtla
06-23-2010, 10:36 AM
The statute of limitations in California is as follows:

Misdemeanors = 1 year
Felonies with possible sentence under 8 years = 3 years

The Federal statute of limitations for non-capital crimes = 5 years

So then the question becomes, would he be guilty of a Federal crime for purchasing the handgun from his friend (within CA) without going through an FFL?

CHS
06-23-2010, 11:57 AM
So then the question becomes, would he be guilty of a Federal crime for purchasing the handgun from his friend (within CA) without going through an FFL?

No.

But the friend would possibly be in violation of federal law for acquiring the gun from an uncle out of state, if they were both residents of different states.

But since we're really only concerned about the transfer from the friend to the guy you know, there is no federal issue involved.

Honestly, the best and easiest way of correcting this issue is to fill out the form and send the $19 in. You can't really erase the past crime, but possession of the gun isn't illegal also. Just "make it right" and don't do it again :)

Legasat
06-23-2010, 12:02 PM
No.

But the friend would possibly be in violation of federal law for acquiring the gun from an uncle out of state, if they were both residents of different states.

But since we're really only concerned about the transfer from the friend to the guy you know, there is no federal issue involved.

Honestly, the best and easiest way of correcting this issue is to fill out the form and send the $19 in. You can't really erase the past crime, but possession of the gun isn't illegal also. Just "make it right" and don't do it again :)

^^^^This is the simplest solution at this point^^^^

gunsmith
06-23-2010, 1:14 PM
^^^
agree, simple possession in the home probably isn't a crime.
There is no registration - a handgun in the home that is not stolen is simply not a crime.
The whole reason I send in the forms when I move back to Cali is if I accidentally ccw then its a misdo not a felo.
Hopefully this will be addressed some day, you know, in a free country you can simply sell your firearm the same as you can sell your car.

383green
06-23-2010, 1:21 PM
you know, in a free country you can simply sell your firearm the same as you can sell your car.

Right, you sign over the title and register the transfer of ownership with the DMV. Oh, wait... :rolleyes:

gunsmith
06-23-2010, 1:33 PM
^^^
Really?! oh oh, we have had this old toyota truck on the ranch for years, it never is on public roads-has no plates-no reg and has pieces from other old trucks on it too.
OMG I must be an outlaw!

gunsmith
06-23-2010, 1:37 PM
afaik you can buy a car without having to get a background check, you don't have to go to a dealer, & if it in your garage you don't have to inform DMV.
afaik in a free country ( like NV where I live ) you can buy a gun from a private person without having the big brother involved.

gunsmith
06-24-2010, 12:22 PM
yup, FUD! gunsmith is right again, I don't know how I do it!
Though sometimes, being brilliant is lonely

ColdDeadHands1
06-24-2010, 1:41 PM
Honestly, the best and easiest way of correcting this issue is to fill out the form and send the $19 in. You can't really erase the past crime, but possession of the gun isn't illegal also. Just "make it right" and don't do it again

Are there no repercussions to the initial breaking of the law when sending in the form?

Say for example this gun had been previously registered in CA to someone else and now you send in a Vol Reg form. Wouldn't the DOJ ask how, when, & why do you now have the gun?

gunsmith
06-24-2010, 2:48 PM
^^^
I doubt it, unless the previously "registered" ( no registration in CA ) gun is listed as stolen or lost.
of course, ianal- I'm not even half as smart as bwise or Gene!

dfletcher
06-24-2010, 2:56 PM
IIRC, the self reg form has a box regarding aquisition marked as "other". Often wondered what the heck that meant, what would happen if checked off & sent in. Does DOJ call and say "please explain" and can you just say "you know - other".

Isn't DOJ more concerned about getting the handgun into their system and hooking it up with a name rather than how the gun got where it got?

Glock22Fan
06-24-2010, 3:03 PM
DoJ, I am told by FFL's, could not care less about the provenance of the firearm, they just want it registered NOW.

I have had a couple of firearms registered to me (PPT through an FFL) after the previous owner wasn't registered and "couldn't remember" where and how he acquired the guns, as it was so long ago. No questions asked, no problem.

In order to prosecute, your friend would have to reveal how he obtained the firearm and when (within the statute of limitations) it was obtained. In other words, he should say as little as possible.

Adehtla
06-24-2010, 8:41 PM
Well, thank you everyone for all of your help and information. I've passed it on to the individual in need of it, and they thank you as well. Hopefully, it all turns out well.

MP301
06-24-2010, 10:20 PM
Or, have him UPS it to the Uncle, who in turn sends it to the guys FFL and DROSes it? That would even be safer, yes?

hoffmang
06-24-2010, 10:32 PM
As I recall, the VolReg has a specific liability exemption that allows you to register and not face a penalty.

-Gene

Mssr. Eleganté
06-24-2010, 10:38 PM
As I recall, the VolReg has a specific liability exemption that allows you to register and not face a penalty.

-Gene

No, it's the New Resident Handgun Report that has the liability exemption you are thinking of. If a new resident reports a handgun after the 60 day window, they can't be prosecuted if the State only finds out about it because of the new resident sending in the form late.

Adehtla
06-24-2010, 11:09 PM
Or, have him UPS it to the Uncle, who in turn sends it to the guys FFL and DROSes it? That would even be safer, yes?

The uncle passed away and prior to this "gave" all his firearms to his nephew. It's a giant cluster-****. This is why I always do things the right way.

CHS
06-25-2010, 8:26 AM
The uncle passed away and prior to this "gave" all his firearms to his nephew. It's a giant cluster-****. This is why I always do things the right way.

Yup, again, 19$. DOJ Form. Breathe easy at night.

Done.

Adehtla
06-25-2010, 4:50 PM
Yup, again, 19$. DOJ Form. Breathe easy at night.

Done.

And that's what they said they'd do. They also said they never wanted to deal with this headache again, yay!

Thank you everyone for the excellent information. I'm now better informed, and together we've undoubtedly educated so folks in the process. This is why CalGuns is such a great place.