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thefitter
06-22-2010, 1:11 PM
Need to get a tactical bolt knob installed but want a PERFECT job done. Any recommendations in Northern CA?

thevic
06-22-2010, 1:15 PM
ask kendog4570. he is located in aptos next to santa cruz

telcolineman
06-22-2010, 1:37 PM
Sierra Gun Works in Pioneer Ca, 209-295-3219
Mike is a great smith. Give him a call

ar15barrels
06-22-2010, 1:47 PM
Need to get a tactical bolt knob installed but want a PERFECT job done. Any recommendations in Northern CA?

Define perfect.

daveinwoodland
06-22-2010, 1:58 PM
There are two people in Woodland that are very good. One is Norse Armory and the other is Maraviov Gunsmithing.

thefitter
06-22-2010, 1:59 PM
Define perfect.

1per•fect
Pronunciation: \ˈpər-fikt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English parfit, from Anglo-French, from Latin perfectus, from past participle of perficere to carry out, perfect, from per- thoroughly + facere to make, do — more at do
Date: 14th century
1 a : being entirely without fault or defect : flawless <a perfect diamond > b : satisfying all requirements : accurate c : corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept <a perfect gentleman> d : faithfully reproducing the original; specifically : letter-perfect e : legally valid
2 : expert, proficient <practice makes perfect>
3 a : pure, total b : lacking in no essential detail : complete c obsolete : sane d : absolute, unequivocal <enjoys perfect happiness> e : of an extreme kind : unmitigated <a perfect brat> <an act of perfect foolishness>
4 obsolete : mature
5 : of, relating to, or constituting a verb form or verbal that expresses an action or state completed at the time of speaking or at a time spoken of
6 obsolete a : certain, sure b : contented, satisfied
7 of a musical interval : belonging to the consonances unison, fourth, fifth, and octave which retain their character when inverted and when raised or lowered by a half step become augmented or diminished
8 a : sexually mature and fully differentiated <a perfect insect > b : having both stamens and pistils in the same flower <a perfect flower>
— per•fect•ness \-fik(t)-nəs\ noun
synonyms perfect, whole, entire, intact mean not lacking or faulty in any particular. perfect implies the soundness and the excellence of every part, element, or quality of a thing frequently as an unattainable or theoretical state <a perfect set of teeth>. whole suggests a completeness or perfection that can be sought, gained, or regained <felt like a whole person again after vacation>. entire implies perfection deriving from integrity, soundness, or completeness of a thing <the entire Beethoven corpus>. intact implies retention of perfection of a thing in its natural or original state <the boat survived the storm intact>

ar15barrels
06-22-2010, 2:11 PM
1per•fect
Pronunciation: \ˈpər-fikt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English parfit, from Anglo-French, from Latin perfectus, from past participle of perficere to carry out, perfect, from per- thoroughly + facere to make, do — more at do
Date: 14th century
1 a : being entirely without fault or defect : flawless <a perfect diamond > b : satisfying all requirements : accurate c : corresponding to an ideal standard or abstract concept <a perfect gentleman> d : faithfully reproducing the original; specifically : letter-perfect e : legally valid
2 : expert, proficient <practice makes perfect>
3 a : pure, total b : lacking in no essential detail : complete c obsolete : sane d : absolute, unequivocal <enjoys perfect happiness> e : of an extreme kind : unmitigated <a perfect brat> <an act of perfect foolishness>
4 obsolete : mature
5 : of, relating to, or constituting a verb form or verbal that expresses an action or state completed at the time of speaking or at a time spoken of
6 obsolete a : certain, sure b : contented, satisfied
7 of a musical interval : belonging to the consonances unison, fourth, fifth, and octave which retain their character when inverted and when raised or lowered by a half step become augmented or diminished
8 a : sexually mature and fully differentiated <a perfect insect > b : having both stamens and pistils in the same flower <a perfect flower>
— per•fect•ness \-fik(t)-nəs\ noun
synonyms perfect, whole, entire, intact mean not lacking or faulty in any particular. perfect implies the soundness and the excellence of every part, element, or quality of a thing frequently as an unattainable or theoretical state <a perfect set of teeth>. whole suggests a completeness or perfection that can be sought, gained, or regained <felt like a whole person again after vacation>. entire implies perfection deriving from integrity, soundness, or completeness of a thing <the entire Beethoven corpus>. intact implies retention of perfection of a thing in its natural or original state <the boat survived the storm intact>

That's a microsoft tech support answer.
Technically correct, but not any help.

What do you find IMPERFECT about the installation below?

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob2.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob3.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob4.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob6.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob7.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob8.jpg

1988
06-22-2010, 3:38 PM
... want a PERFECT job done.

There's no such thing as PERFECT in machining.... only high or low tolerances.

Make your call and live with it.

popeye4
06-22-2010, 3:53 PM
That's a microsoft tech support answer.
Technically correct, but not any help.

What do you find IMPERFECT about the installation below?

http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob2.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob3.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob4.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob6.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob7.jpg
http://ar15barrels.com/gfx/700knob8.jpg

My guess is the bolt goes up and down and back and forth just fine. And I'll bet he wouldn't have to send you the whole rifle.......

telcolineman
06-22-2010, 4:31 PM
Looks great Randall, Wish I had machining skills like that

Vtec44
06-22-2010, 4:38 PM
That's a microsoft tech support answer.
Technically correct, but not any help.

What do you find IMPERFECT about the installation below?


To some people, it's perfect. To others, the welding spot needs to be sanded out smoothly and possibly some touch ups after sanding. That's the problem with dealing words, it's not the same from person to person. I'd list the things I don't want to see instead.

thefitter
06-22-2010, 5:09 PM
To some people, it's perfect. To others, the welding spot needs to be sanded out smoothly and possibly some touch ups after sanding. That's the problem with dealing words, it's not the same from person to person. I'd list the things I don't want to see instead.

I would have to agree.

Here are some pics of a TAC OPS install. Their kits threaded adapter has a shoulder that after 360 degree welding is then totally blended so no seam is visible. This kit also does not reduce the bolt length and helps clearance.

ar15barrels
06-22-2010, 5:35 PM
To some people, it's perfect. To others, the welding spot needs to be sanded out smoothly and possibly some touch ups after sanding. That's the problem with dealing words, it's not the same from person to person. I'd list the things I don't want to see instead.

The welds are covered by the knob.
What you see sticking out from under the knob is where the corners of the square shank are rounded off to blend into the weld.

My weld goes all the way around as well, but it's hidden so that a full refinish job is not needed.
I'm sure Tac Ops charges more than twice what I do because they have to do all the grinding and re-finishing.

Linus
06-22-2010, 7:14 PM
I would have to agree.

Here are some pics of a TAC OPS install. Their kits threaded adapter has a shoulder that after 360 degree welding is then totally blended so no seam is visible. This kit also does not reduce the bolt length and helps clearance.

Randall's method is actually better than the tac-ops. The threaded stub is simply positioned on top of the milled bolt handle THEN welded, Randall's drilling method produces a much stronger attachment. But then again most people base most decisions on looks and not quality. My definition of perfect would be more mechanical/design oriented opposed to the OP's seemingly cosmetic concern.

ar15barrels
06-22-2010, 7:28 PM
most people base most decisions on looks and not quality.

It's the world we live in.
The people that care least about looks are generally the ones that matter the most. ;)

shadowofnight
06-22-2010, 7:54 PM
I am pretty picky myself when it comes to both mechanical function/strength , as well as cosmetics. I watched Randall weld all of my bolts ( 3 ) as well as my buddies ( 1 ) , thats as strong as that particular joint is going to get.

It took me all of 5 minutes to lightly wet sand the joint smooth , and then used a little Flitz polish to get rid of the heat induced discoloration...there...ultra strong and pretty. :)


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=59768&d=1277265201

thefitter
06-22-2010, 8:15 PM
Randall's method is actually better than the tac-ops. The threaded stub is simply positioned on top of the milled bolt handle THEN welded, Randall's drilling method produces a much stronger attachment. But then again most people base most decisions on looks and not quality. My definition of perfect would be more mechanical/design oriented opposed to the OP's seemingly cosmetic concern.

Here are some of the other pics. I do not have pics of the final blending. If I find them I will post.


I'm not here to critique anyones work. I was asking for a recommendation. Also I was responding to another persons comments and provided an example.


FWIW I weld in my trade as well... although rarely for looks, but for functionality and safety instead.

CRTguns
06-22-2010, 8:20 PM
I do it with a "hollow mill"

A $100 gem that makes this a 3 step, and 15 minute process. No welding- no seams.
1.Place bolt in jig, place jig in vise.
2. Find center and plunge to desired depth with hollow mill
3. cut threads with die using mill quill to center and push die over stub.

ar15barrels
06-22-2010, 8:23 PM
I do it with a "hollow mill"

A $100 gem that makes this a 3 step, and 15 minute process. No welding- no seams.
1.Place bolt in jig, place jig in vise.
2. Find center and plunge to desired depth with hollow mill
3. cut threads with die using mill quill to center and push die over stub.

I used to do it that way too.

Have you seen the void inside the handle castings yet? :eek:

evolixsurf
06-22-2010, 8:26 PM
I used to do it that way too.

Have you seen the void inside the handle castings yet? :eek:


Wow! Any pics of the void!?

ar15barrels
06-22-2010, 8:28 PM
Wow! Any pics of the void!?

Im in NY right now, but I have a bunch of them on my workbench.
Where I ran into trouble was when the void came to the edge where I was cutting threads with a die and the threads collapsed into the void.
That one got me to start cutting off knobs and putting in the threaded pin like I do now.

thefitter
06-22-2010, 9:14 PM
Here's the pics showing the blending.

Now if everyone is done telling me what my priorities should be and what I should be satisfied with I'd like to get back on topic and ask if there's anyone in NORTHERN CA that can do this job at this level. I'll supply the knob and adapter. Thanks

DB2
06-22-2010, 9:29 PM
Well maybe you should be more specific than NORTHERN CA. You have one of the better smiths responding in this thread, and he's in Modesto.

But chances are he won't want the business due to the attitude.

MT1
06-22-2010, 10:15 PM
Didn't take any pictures during or after welding, but I do it a similar way as Randall - started out with a 5/16-24 SS bolt and turned it down to a shank on one side that's the same length as the threads on the top side. Bored the hole and silver soldered the stud in place. Worked it for a month and decided I liked the placement so I final tig welded the knob in place then buffed it out. You still see the tig weld, and I like it that way.


http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9924/knob2.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2421/knob1.jpg


not offering to do the job....just posting for comparison.

Anyone should be able to do that job, just means adding additional weld so that it can be ground to the proper contour and then smoothing it out - key is that you're going to pay more like was said above.

CRTguns
06-23-2010, 9:22 AM
I used to do it that way too.

Have you seen the void inside the handle castings yet? :eek:

1 or 2... not enough to cause problems. I just like how clean the thing looks when done- no weld, ne need to reblue or even sandblast. No seam, no tool marks. Nice. Easy. And I gotta pay for that hollow mill.

CRTguns
06-23-2010, 9:22 AM
Well maybe you should be more specific than NORTHERN CA. You have one of the better smiths responding in this thread, and he's in Modesto.

But chances are he won't want the business due to the attitude.

hah!

thefitter
07-07-2010, 10:56 AM
hah!

Let me make sure I understand this- someone comes in a craps in my thread with a smartas* question rather than a sincere effort to help. Then challenges me to critique his work, which I actually did not do someone else did, I just agreed and posted pics of what I thought was a very good job. Then he makes the statement that people/customers that care about appearance do not matter, simply because he can't handle the honest criticism he asked for in the first place. So all that means I'm the one with the attitude? Right.