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View Full Version : 'Open carry' activists to wear unloaded firearms at Hermosa Beach cleanup event


cvc04
06-22-2010, 8:43 AM
Gun rights activists will holster unloaded weapons on their belts while they clean up trash in Hermosa Beach next month to educate the public that firearms can be openly carried in California.

During the event, tentatively scheduled for mid-July, up to five members of South Bay Open Carry will carry unloaded guns.

"We plan on openly carrying our guns while picking up trash along 8th Street from Valley to the beach and along Hermosa Avenue or the Strand to Pier/Downtown area, ending at a coffee shop to be determined," the group's leader, Harley Green, wrote on his organization's Web site.

Green, a Hermosa Beach resident, did not respond Monday to a phone call or an e-mail.

Green, however, met this month with Hermosa Beach Police Chief Greg Savelli, who said the group has the right to wear guns openly in California, as long as they are unloaded.

California law allows anybody to carry an unloaded handgun in public with ammunition, as long as the two are carried separately.

During the meeting, police officials and Green discussed how to avoid any confrontations, including police officers mistaking group members for criminals carrying guns, Savelli said.

The group does not want to be confronted as much as officers don't want to confront them,
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Savelli said.

"They realize our guns are loaded. They don't want us to misconstrue anything."

According to the SBOC website, the trash cleanup program is "intended to educate the public on the right to openly carry unloaded firearms in Hermosa Beach and California in general."

South Bay Open Carry wants to "facilitate change through positive community interactions."

"You may see us out picking up trash along the beach or greenbelt, serving food at shelters and churches, handing out water on hot summer days," the website says.

Savelli said officers will create a map showing places where the law does not allow for openly carrying weapons, including within 1,000 feet of a school. Guns also will not be allowed in parks, along the greenbelt and at the beach.

The South Bay group is an offshoot of a Northern California group that held a similar trash cleanup event on a San Francisco beach in February.

Members cleaned Baker Beach while armed with handguns strapped to their sides.

In response, the state Assembly voted 45-25 on June 1 to put an end to California's open carry laws. The bill now goes to the Senate.

The Los Angeles City Council, county Sheriff's Department and California Police Chiefs Association were among law enforcement agencies supporting the bill.

Last month, Oklahoma Gov. Brad Henry vetoed a measure that would have allowed residents with concealed weapons permits to openly carry their handguns.

larry.altman@dailybreeze.com

http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/ci_15344735

Ed_in_Sac
06-22-2010, 8:50 AM
A friend of mine in TN noted that while open cary is legal there, only tourist from States like CA do so. He said OC causes concern amongst the public and since CC is easy to get there, shall issue State, none of the locals he knows open carry.

Uriah02
06-22-2010, 8:53 AM
I wonder at this point how OC events may hurt or help in light of the bill to ban OC.

Rossi357
06-22-2010, 9:00 AM
I wonder at this point how OC events may hurt or help in light of the bill to ban OC.

It probably won't have any effect other than to desensitize the public about seeing weapons OC'ed. The politicians never listen to the public anyway. After McDonald, this bill won't pass constitutional muster.

Liberty1
06-22-2010, 9:00 AM
A friend of mine in TN noted that while open cary is legal there, only tourist from States like CA do so. He said OC causes concern amongst the public and since CC is easy to get there, shall issue State, none of the locals he knows open carry.

Tenn. issues 'carry licenses'. One is needed to both OC or CC. And some locals do OC...http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum50/ for all the reasons well expressed here http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/7230-open-carry-argument.html .

Liberty1
06-22-2010, 9:02 AM
I wonder at this point how OC events may hurt or help in light of the bill to ban OC.

It can't help at this point IMO.

Ed_in_Sac
06-22-2010, 9:16 AM
Tenn. issues 'carry licenses'. One is needed to both OC or CC. And some locals do OC...http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum50/ for all the reasons well expressed here http://www.usacarry.com/forums/open-carry-discussion/7230-open-carry-argument.html .

My point was that OC is controversial even in States where the laws make both forms of carry, OC and CC, legal. You are correct on my not having made the correct distinction on licensing, thank you for pointing that out. btw, I looked at the open carry forum link and it seems that there are postings about people running into trouble for OC in places like WalMart, etc...and yes that should not be.

N6ATF
06-22-2010, 9:34 AM
Members cleaned Baker Beach while armed with handguns strapped to their sides.

In response, the state Assembly voted 45-25 on June 1 to put an end to California's open carry laws. The bill now goes to the Senate.

"There WILL be trash-covered beaches!"

E Pluribus Unum
06-22-2010, 9:34 AM
It probably won't have any effect other than to desensitize the public about seeing weapons OC'ed. The politicians never listen to the public anyway. After McDonald, this bill won't pass constitutional muster.

Silveria didn't pass constitutional muster either, but it was the law for 10 years.

It can't help at this point IMO.

It can't hurt either; the worst has come: a bill to outlaw open carry. Open carriers are not going to motivate law makers to pass the bill by doing open carry trash pick ups.

winnre
06-22-2010, 9:36 AM
"They realize our guns are loaded. They don't want us to misconstrue anything."

So they are loaded or unloaded?

jdberger
06-22-2010, 9:40 AM
"They realize our guns are loaded. They don't want us to misconstrue anything."

So they are loaded or unloaded?

That was a quote by the cops.

Poor editing on the part of the author.

-hanko
06-22-2010, 10:31 AM
A friend of mine in TN noted that while open cary is legal there, only tourist from States like CA do so. He said OC causes concern amongst the public and since CC is easy to get there, shall issue State, none of the locals he knows open carry.
With the exception of the wilderness, where you just don't see any hikers or packers without exposed heat (and usually a dog or 2), it's a turista thing in ID also. Locals carry concealed with a CHL, or sometimes carry concealed without a CHL.

Leo's here are trained to ASSUME any driver stopped is packing, show your license and CHL if you are and it's no big deal. Refreshing, though Californication continues as it does in Oregon and Washington state.

-hanko

winnre
06-22-2010, 10:48 AM
Only 5 people? Even newsworthy?

DVSmith
06-22-2010, 10:56 AM
Only 5 people? Even newsworthy?


They will be a curiosity and considered loony by most everyone there. They might even provoke negative feedback and/or interaction from the environmentalist crowd as they tend to be less than pro 2A.

The UOC crowd has already done what damage they were going to do. I doubt this will hurt anything. I can guarantee it certainly won't improve anything.

BigJim_610
06-22-2010, 12:03 PM
Pendulum Penis's comes to mind.

stitchnicklas
06-22-2010, 12:12 PM
:popcorn::popcorn::whistling:

diginit
06-22-2010, 5:03 PM
Just make sure they are in holsters on a belt and not like that idiot in Hollister the news media showed with a revolver stuffed in his belt. He should have been cited.

CitaDeL
06-22-2010, 5:21 PM
Just make sure they are in holsters on a belt and not like that idiot in Hollister the news media showed with a revolver stuffed in his belt. He should have been cited.

Not that I agree or approve of 'open' Mexican carry, but under what penal code would you recommend police cite them? I'm not aware of any code that would prohibit carry in this manner.

As to whether or not these folks should have an open carry trash pick up; I don't believe it will have a significant impact on anything. It will not accelerate the passage of AB1934, and will not create much support from anyone outside the 2A world. But the beach will be cleaner after they are done- if someone, somewhere can get something positive out of that, it may mean a small net gain.

diginit
06-22-2010, 7:27 PM
That was not UOC as I understand it. As stated in the PC "IN a HOLSTER, ON a belt." NOT "tucked into a belt" The PC seems very clear in this case.
I'm not a lawer, But it seems to me that would be prosecutable as branishing at the very least. Possibly concield carry as it was not holstered as per the exact wording of the PC. Guess it would depend weather the arresting officer and the judge are Hispanic... :D
Is there a clause somewhere permitting the visable carry of pistols in a belt without a holster or a CCW? If so, I think I'll just carry my 1911 in my belt and start shooting while holding it sideways...:)

CitaDeL
06-22-2010, 8:54 PM
That was not UOC as I understand it. As stated in the PC "IN a HOLSTER, ON a belt." NOT "tucked into a belt" The PC seems very clear in this case.
I'm not a lawer, But it seems to me that would be prosecutable as branishing at the very least. Possibly concield carry as it was not holstered as per the exact wording of the PC. Guess it would depend weather the arresting officer and the judge are Hispanic... :D
Is there a clause somewhere permitting the visable carry of pistols in a belt without a holster or a CCW? If so, I think I'll just carry my 1911 in my belt and start shooting while holding it sideways...:)

12025 (f) is an example of what is not considered concealed. The carry of concealable firearms in other ways is not prohibited because they are not listed in subsection (f), or else shoulder rigs, drop leg holsters, scabbards hung over your shoulder or simply carrying a handgun in your hand would would be considered 'concealed'.

Brandishing (PC417) requires a weapon to be displayed in a rude, angry, or threatening manner. Mexican carry, in spite of the foolishness of the lack of safety and retention, doesnt necessarily fullfill the elements of the crime.

Like I said before, I do not think it is wise to jam a firearm into your belt sans holster, but at the same time, its not a crime nor should it be.

As far as holding your pistol sideways while shooting... as long as you can maintain a proper sight picture and follow all other safe gun handling rules, you can shoot sideways 'til you've drained your ammo.:p

BigDogatPlay
06-22-2010, 9:37 PM
I wonder at this point how OC events may hurt or help in light of the bill to ban OC.

Poking the bear is never a good idea. And giving Saldana that many more photos to sprinkle into committee hearings and press conferences presents a long term risk that far outweighs the short term reward.

GM4spd
06-22-2010, 10:45 PM
Hope there are no laundromats or schools close to where they pick up trash.
Pete

N6ATF
06-22-2010, 11:53 PM
Poking the bear is never a good idea. And giving Saldana that many more photos to sprinkle into committee hearings and press conferences presents a long term risk that far outweighs the short term reward.

Even worse, she'll play the video backward, showing OCers LITTERING, and she'll get away with it because you can commit perjury and fraud with absolute impunity if you're a victim-disarming traitor.

pullnshoot25
06-22-2010, 11:56 PM
Not this stuff again...

E Pluribus Unum
06-23-2010, 12:03 AM
you can commit perjury and fraud with absolute impunity if you're a victim-disarming traitor.

Please do not sugar coat things on this board.... be completely honest and tell us how you really feel....

CP562
06-23-2010, 3:17 AM
Even worse, she'll play the video backward, showing OCers LITTERING, and she'll get away with it because you can commit perjury and fraud with absolute impunity if you're a victim-disarming traitor.

:rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

xxsleepyxx
06-23-2010, 5:18 AM
These OC gentlemen are undoubtedly some of the most impressive human being reigning from the state of CA. These exemplary individuals are worthy of praise to the utmost caliber. Clap clap.

CitaDeL
06-23-2010, 5:25 AM
Poking the bear is never a good idea. And giving Saldana that many more photos to sprinkle into committee hearings and press conferences presents a long term risk that far outweighs the short term reward.

The real problem is that We the People are the 'bear' and the legislature is poking us with the stick not the other way around. Unfortunately, it seems the bear will not be roused for anything less that door to door confiscation by a runaway government.

As we have already seen, if the existing video and photos dont send the message that Saldana wants, she is not above making her own... So it really doesnt matter whether or not UOC is practiced.

winnre
06-23-2010, 7:33 AM
This may be their last hurrah.

BigDogatPlay
06-23-2010, 7:48 AM
The real problem is that We the People are the 'bear' and the legislature is poking us with the stick not the other way around. Unfortunately, it seems the bear will not be roused for anything less that door to door confiscation by a runaway government.

As we have already seen, if the existing video and photos dont send the message that Saldana wants, she is not above making her own... So it really doesnt matter whether or not UOC is practiced.

No it really doesn't matter.... the only risk you run is Saldana getting the governor to sign her ban.

You are correct, in part, that in normal times the people are the bear. However, as this entire issue makes eminently clear we are not in normal times. The people in California are, generally, disposed to not care a bucket of warm spit about anyone else's civil rights. And given the success that the progressive left has had in this state demonizing the legitimate use and carry of firearms, every time the OC community steps up with any kind of attention grabbing photo op it can and will be used against the movement by the progressive left to further the demonization.

While I respect the right, and I respect the OCers for sacking up and doing what they do, I am afraid that the movement is ignoring the political and (manufactured) social climate in California and indirectly agitating the masses against it's interests.

See Don Quixote and the concept of pyhrric victory for parallels.

CHS
06-23-2010, 11:06 AM
Why does everyone think we have RIGHT to unloaded carry, when in reality the RIGHT is to carry openly LOADED?

If you're gonna flex your muscle, at least do it right. Because now the uneducated masses are going to be confused. "Huh? What? I don't get it... Why are they carrying guns if they can't load them?"

pullnshoot25
06-23-2010, 11:20 AM
Bdsmchs is correct. I can't stand how people say UOC is the right.

socal-shooter
06-23-2010, 11:38 AM
Even worse, she'll play the video backward, showing OCers LITTERING, and she'll get away with it because you can commit perjury and fraud with absolute impunity if you're a victim-disarming traitor.

lmao!!

KylaGWolf
06-23-2010, 9:17 PM
Poking the bear is never a good idea. And giving Saldana that many more photos to sprinkle into committee hearings and press conferences presents a long term risk that far outweighs the short term reward.

Well considering she made the comment that a group of open carriers were followed by gang members and couldn't back it up her credibility is shot. Oh and I was at that event in question and not a single gang banger was following us. And there are pictures to prove it. And well I would love to see her say that I am scary looking (well I am but that is beside the point) That being said I am disabled and female not your typical open carrier. Then again it seems that Ms. Saldana doesn't care about any facts and only likes fiction.