PDA

View Full Version : Kel-Tec vs. Mini-14


escon1
06-22-2010, 8:04 AM
I am sure that this has been discussed ad nauseum, but what do you think the pluses and minuses are of each weapon? I went to Fowler's Gun Room a couple of days ago and asked if they had any Kel-Tec's in stock and the Rep. told me that they don't carry them because they have had a lot of problems with them.
Is the reliability of the Kel-Tec really that bad?

Thanks in advance.

Notblake
06-22-2010, 8:41 AM
I think the consensus is: neither, Saiga .223 seems to be the superior .223 sporter on the cheap.

The ak action is super reliable as well as being about equally accurate as the other two rifles.

although I personally couldn't buy the saiga chambered for anything other than 7.62 russian.

I know that doesn't really answer your question but...............

salazar44
06-22-2010, 8:47 AM
I think its BS. They just dont have any in at the moment because they are hard to get/keep in stock.

BUT... why dont you try looking at something else we have in stock because those KT's are no good anyway.

vf111
06-22-2010, 8:52 AM
I personally prefer the Mini-14 over the Keltec and Saiga. Super reliable, made in USA out of steel and good looks when it wears a wood stock. The newer 580 series are (supposedly) more accurate than the older 181-series rifles - to me they are accurate enough for their intended purpose as a ranch rifle and general plinker. If I want a minute-of-flea 223/ 5.56 rifle I'll go the AR or bolt action route.

BTW, if you go over to PerfectUnion.com there's an article by Jim Cooper from 1976 about his thoughts on the Mini's.

CavTrooper
06-22-2010, 8:52 AM
SU-16s are a novelty item, prone to failures a breaks if used hard.

The Mini is durable, although horribly inaccurate, it will last under hard use. Its the American equivilant of an AK.

thayne
06-22-2010, 9:01 AM
SU-16s are a novelty item, prone to failures a breaks if used hard.

The Mini is durable, although horribly inaccurate, it will last under hard use. Its the American equivilant of an AK.

Mini is not horribly inaccurate...

Vacaville
06-22-2010, 9:04 AM
Out of the two I'd go for a new Mini-14. They retooled the factory a couple of years ago. New ones are supposed to be much more accurate than older ones.

Dragunov
06-22-2010, 9:05 AM
SU-16s are a novelty item, prone to failures a breaks if used hard.

The Mini is durable, although horribly inaccurate, it will last under hard use. Its the American equivilant of an AK.

I agree with the second but not the first.
My SU is rugged enough. It's designed to be a folding SURVIVAL rifle. When used in that capacity, it is a superior rifle. If you have an issue with your rifle, send it back to Kel-Tec. You can't beat their warranty. Keep in mind what it's design and purpose is. It is NOT a "battle rifle" and is far more accurate than a Mini.

If you want an inexpensive "battle rifle" that shoots well, get an SKS or a Saiga.

Dragunov
06-22-2010, 9:08 AM
Out of the two I'd go for a new Mini-14. They retooled the factory a couple of years ago. New ones are supposed to be much more accurate than older ones. I actually shot a new Mini a couple of weeks ago. It is a major improvement over the old one, but still not $750 accurate. SU, a good SKS or a Saiga will still shoot rings around it for the money.

CavTrooper
06-22-2010, 9:42 AM
Mini is not horribly inaccurate...

Thats a matter of opinion.

Rugers standard for the mini is 2" (maybe 3) @ 50 yards.

For me, that is unacceptable.

CavTrooper
06-22-2010, 9:46 AM
I agree with the second but not the first.
My SU is rugged enough. It's designed to be a folding SURVIVAL rifle. When used in that capacity, it is a superior rifle. If you have an issue with your rifle, send it back to Kel-Tec. You can't beat their warranty. Keep in mind what it's design and purpose is. It is NOT a "battle rifle" and is far more accurate than a Mini.

If you want an inexpensive "battle rifle" that shoots well, get an SKS or a Saiga.

"Survival" means durability and reliabilty, the plastic rifle is neither.
Will the SU survive a tumble down a hill?
Will it survive a drop from a tree or building?
Will it survive an impact from a blunt object?

The mini will take much more abuse then the SU IMO, making much more reliable for "survival".

ZombieTactics
06-22-2010, 9:49 AM
To the OP: You'll find any number of people expressing all manner of opinions on this type of subject, most of whom have no experience with the weapons in question, or insufficient experience from which to form any kind of informed opinion.

Owning both a Mini-14 and a SU16CA, I tend to think that maybe - just maybe - I might be able to offer an opinion.

In a nutshell, early SU16CA were known to be problematic in various ways effecting both reliability and accuracy. This is widely accepted to be no longer the case. I find mine to be reliable and reasonably accurate.

There have been some spotty runs of the Mini-14 as well. Current production is solid and reasonably accurate. The garand-type action is very reliable.

Neither of these rifles are intended for daily use in battle-harsh environments. If you need that ... look for something else.

Iknownot
06-22-2010, 9:53 AM
Don't buy either new.

Buy one or the other used. Both are better choices at used prices.

Aside from that, try each out and pick which you like better.

I know I enjoy shooting the SU more than the Mini.

The SU, to me, is the modern equivalent of the M1 carbine. It is light, small, handy, holds 2 mags on the stock, but it is updated to shoot the more versatile .223 and it can fold for easy storage.

But it really comes down to personal preference. I have friends that like the Mini better.

Both rifles are fairly similar in the end. You just have to decide which you like better.

vf111
06-22-2010, 9:54 AM
I agree with the second but not the first.
My SU is rugged enough. It's designed to be a folding SURVIVAL rifle. When used in that capacity, it is a superior rifle. If you have an issue with your rifle, send it back to Kel-Tec. You can't beat their warranty. Keep in mind what it's design and purpose is. It is NOT a "battle rifle" and is far more accurate than a Mini.

If you want an inexpensive "battle rifle" that shoots well, get an SKS or a Saiga.

In a survival setting where my life is at stake, I'd take a Mini over a KT all day long.

If I want an inexpensive battle rifle I'll bring a Service grade CMP Garand.

CavTrooper
06-22-2010, 9:55 AM
To the OP: You'll find any number of people expressing all manner of opinions on this type of subject, most of whom have no experience with the weapons in question, or insufficient experience from which to form any kind of informed opinion.

Owning both a Mini-14 and a SU16CA, I tend to think that maybe - just maybe - I might be able to offer an opinion.

In a nutshell, early SU16CA were known to be problematic in various ways effecting both reliability and accuracy. This is widely accepted to be no longer the case. I find mine to be reliable and reasonably accurate.

There have been some spotty runs of the Mini-14 as well. Current production is solid and reasonably accurate. The garand-type action is very reliable.

Neither of these rifles are intended for daily use in battle-harsh environments. If you need that ... look for something else.

Run a test.

Put a mini and an SU head to head. Slow fire aimed shots, mug dumps, drops from a significant height, dirt and grime in the actions and whatever other abusive tests you can think up. My money would be on the mini.

Ive owned both as well. Blew up a SU, never blew up a mini.

thayne
06-22-2010, 9:56 AM
Thats a matter of opinion.

Rugers standard for the mini is 2" (maybe 3) @ 50 yards.

For me, that is unacceptable.
Mine shoots 2" groups at 100 yards with any ammo i put in it. For what it is thats more than acceptable. And its never jammed once. Ever, in the 15 years I've had it.

-hanko
06-22-2010, 10:07 AM
To the OP: You'll find any number of people expressing all manner of opinions on this type of subject, most of whom have no experience with the weapons in question, or insufficient experience from which to form any kind of informed opinion.

Neither of these rifles are intended for daily use in battle-harsh environments. If you need that ... look for something else.
Nor would I pick either rifle in a "survival" situation...if surviving means you lost in nowhere without food, I'd consider a Savage Model 24 with .22 lr over 20ga.

If surviving means zombies, I'd choose an AR.

The KelTec is like a GSG-5...a plastic gun made by children for children.

I've had 3 KelTec's, all produced within the last 2 years, all were poo. All were returned to the maker for warranty issues, usually problematic feeding with a variety of commercial and US military ammo. They all got sold after KelTec repaired them:(

While not especially accurate, the Mini will go on forever. Ruger was smart to use a Garand-ish action with its inherent reliability. For a 'truck gun' that's minute-of-beer-can precise, the Mini is the only choice.

The Mini won't stop.:D

-hanko

thayne
06-22-2010, 10:55 AM
In a surviving means zombies SHTF scenario Im taking an AR and a mini. Use the ar til it breaks then switch to my mini :D

ISTALINI
06-22-2010, 10:58 AM
Nor would I pick either rifle in a "survival" situation...if surviving means you lost in nowhere without food, I'd consider a Savage Model 24 with .22 lr over 20ga.

If surviving means zombies, I'd choose an AR.

The KelTec is like a GSG-5...a plastic gun made by children for children.

I've had 3 KelTec's, all produced within the last 2 years, all were poo. All were returned to the maker for warranty issues, usually problematic feeding with a variety of commercial and US military ammo. They all got sold after KelTec repaired them:(

While not especially accurate, the Mini will go on forever. Ruger was smart to use a Garand-ish action with its inherent reliability. For a 'truck gun' that's minute-of-beer-can precise, the Mini is the only choice.

The Mini won't stop.:D

-hanko

spot on.

sixtringr
06-22-2010, 11:00 AM
My Keltech runs fine on brass cased ammo, ****ty on steel cased. My mini runs fine on everything rolling around in the glove box.
Funny, the plastic gun hates the plastic ammo, anyway IMO the mini is more reliable.

IrishPirate
06-22-2010, 11:01 AM
Love my SU-16, I just wish it was the CA version, not the A, but hey, I got a smokin deal on it so i'm not too upset. here's a great review (http://www.equipped.com/Kel-Tec_SU-16_Review.htm) on the SU-16.

Mini's are the quintessential "ranch gun" IMHO. I don't think it's fair to compare them too much because they really aren't built for the same things. Either one is a great gun if you're using it for what it was really intended to do.

tacticalcity
06-22-2010, 11:04 AM
I am not a fan of either. My reasons for disliking Kel-Tecs has already been covered by the posters above. I don't like the mini-14 because the accuracy is terrible. The barrel is too thin, heats up, and point of aim point of impact begins to shift on you. It's fine cold bore, but definately not a battle ready rifle.

Thanks to Calguns.net we can legally own AR15 Type Rifles, and we have always been able to own M1As. IMHO, the Kel-Tec and Mini-14 are lousy alternatives for those two weapon systems. You would be hard pressed to find somebody who knows their stuff tell you an SU-16 or Mini-14 is a better rifle than a decent brand AR15 or decent brand M1A. When you consider you can build a decent AR15 for as little as $700, its hard to argue in favor of either rifle you are looking at. If it is one amongst many, I see the appeal. If its the only thing you can afford for the foreseable future, I also see the appeal. But if holding off for a month or two would enable you to afford something better, I recommend holding off just a little bit longer while you save up.

Of course, every rifle has their following, many of which are fanatically faithful. So my comments will surely rub them the wrong way.

JTsanchez
06-22-2010, 11:05 AM
Mini is not horribly inaccurate...

This is spreading FUD, im sure you probably only shot a mini one time and concluded that they all are inaccurate but that is far from the truth. I have a newer style Mini and it is extremely accurate within 100 yards, it feels very natural and the sights are very easy to see threw. Mini 14 is a better built and more reliable weapon over the Kel-Tec unless you must have a folding rifle. Remember Keltec rifles have had Kaboom issue in the past, the Mini has no such issue. Just my 2 cents

JTsanchez
06-22-2010, 11:09 AM
"Survival" means durability and reliabilty, the plastic rifle is neither.
Will the SU survive a tumble down a hill?
Will it survive a drop from a tree or building?
Will it survive an impact from a blunt object?

The mini will take much more abuse then the SU IMO, making much more reliable for "survival".

+1, calling the Keltec a better survival rifle than the Mini is wrong IMO. You cant use the rifle to survive when it breaks the first time you drop it. I honestly feel as tho i could use my Mini as a club, then take it too the range, they very well put together.

Len
06-22-2010, 11:22 AM
I have both.
I have had the Mini for 30 years without a problem, I have had my SU16CA for about four years.
I like the ability to use my old 30 round AR mags in the SU and it has never malfunctioned with over 3000 rounds fired. I find it to be very easy to shoot and handle, and as accurate if not more so than my Mini 14.

The Mini has never let me down in all the years I have owned it (except for crappy magazines) I never could get any good magazines for it and am stuck with 10 rounders.
My wife does not like the Mini 14 because she has a hard time inserting mags into it. Not the case with the SU.

Personally I would save up and buy an AR 15, that's my and my wife's favorite of all my 223/5.56 rifles.

Ar's are like Lego's, they are easy to build and change parts on and the possibilities of an AR build are endless.

1988
06-22-2010, 11:24 AM
SU = Sport Utility. It's a convenient rifle.

Survival would need something like an AK action, which can keep shooting without cleaning or lube.

popeye4
06-22-2010, 11:25 AM
I've got an older Mini-14 Ranch Rifle and it has the accuracy issue, I'm lucky if it will shoot into 6"-8" at 100 yards. That just isn't interesting to me in a rifle. I hear the new ones are much better, but I don't have any experience with that. However, the Mini-14 is a solid little carbine, easy to shoot and quite light. It is robust and I think it would be very difficult to break one. And using M1/M14 trigger honing techniques, you can actually get the trigger to feel pretty good! That's why mine is still in the safe and hasn't been sold. I still hold out hope that someday I'll figure out how to make it shoot better without spending a boatload of cash. (Perhaps the way I do that is sell it and buy a new one!)

If you can find a Mini-14 that will shoot 2 MOA, I'd jump all over it.

vf111
06-22-2010, 12:15 PM
If you can find a Mini-14 that will shoot 2 MOA, I'd jump all over it.

Try an Accu-strut: http://www.accu-strut.com/

I have one on my 580-series and can shoot 2" groups at 100 yards w/ a scope and American Eagle ammo.

The problem with the old Mini barrels are they are pencil thin and not necessarily Krieger quality. People have had good luck installing a brake or FH to add more weight to the end of 181-series barrels or cutting them to 16" to mitigate some of the barrel whipping.

vf111
06-22-2010, 12:19 PM
I am not a fan of either. My reasons for disliking Kel-Tecs has already been covered by the posters above. I don't like the mini-14 because the accuracy is terrible. The barrel is too thin, heats up, and point of aim point of impact begins to shift on you. It's fine cold bore, but definately not a battle ready rifle.

Thanks to Calguns.net we can legally own AR15 Type Rifles, and we have always been able to own M1As. IMHO, the Kel-Tec and Mini-14 are lousy alternatives for those two weapon systems. You would be hard pressed to find somebody who knows their stuff tell you an SU-16 or Mini-14 is a better rifle than a decent brand AR15 or decent brand M1A. When you consider you can build a decent AR15 for as little as $700, its hard to argue in favor of either rifle you are looking at. If it is one amongst many, I see the appeal. If its the only thing you can afford for the foreseable future, I also see the appeal. But if holding off for a month or two would enable you to afford something better, I recommend holding off just a little bit longer while you save up.

Of course, every rifle has their following, many of which are fanatically faithful. So my comments will surely rub them the wrong way.

And w/ an AR in CA we have to gimp the crap out of it. At least w/ a Mini and SU we can have detachable mags like God intended.

afro
06-22-2010, 12:27 PM
Mini 14! Don't know but something about them is really attractive to me.

afro
06-22-2010, 12:30 PM
If you can find a Mini-14 that will shoot 2 MOA, I'd jump all over it.

Check this out. Yeah it's long but very informative.

8Fk84KLiaa4

OneSevenDeuce
06-22-2010, 12:37 PM
Just some food for thought on the mini's accuracy...

I shot this with a 1x red dot at 100 yds.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab174/onesevendeuce/target.jpg

My mini is nearly factory original. All I did to it was add a barrel strut, a muzzle break, and an Amega Ranges top rail to I could put an optic where I wanted. This is a 581 series. I don't claim to have the last word on mini accuracy, and I will admit that this group was the best I shot. More often they were in the 1.5-2 MOA at 100 yds. But yeah, accuracy is much less of an issue with the new minis than the older ones.

thayne
06-22-2010, 12:43 PM
This is spreading FUD, im sure you probably only shot a mini one time and concluded that they all are inaccurate but that is far from the truth. I have a newer style Mini and it is extremely accurate within 100 yards, it feels very natural and the sights are very easy to see threw. Mini 14 is a better built and more reliable weapon over the Kel-Tec unless you must have a folding rifle. Remember Keltec rifles have had Kaboom issue in the past, the Mini has no such issue. Just my 2 cents

I think you misread what I was saying. I have an early 90's mini-14 with the pencil barrel and I can shoot 2" groups at 100 yards no problem. I think people bagging on the mini's accuracy is a bunch of FUD and any weakness in accuracy is made up in pure hardcore reliability, with factory mags or course.

Farva
06-22-2010, 12:54 PM
Check this out. Yeah it's long but very informative.

8Fk84KLiaa4

Nutnfancy usually gets flamed to high hell around here.

thayne
06-22-2010, 1:07 PM
Nutnfancy usually gets flamed to high hell around here.

Really? Nutnfancy is the man! In the video post I think he pretty much proves the mini-14 holds its own in a tactical environment against anything out there

OneSevenDeuce
06-22-2010, 1:10 PM
Really? Nutnfancy is the man! In the video post I think he pretty much proves the mini-14 holds its own in a tactical environment against anything out there


I can't even tell you how many times I've seen that guy injure himself, or do something really "mall ninja-esque" on his videos.

basalt
06-22-2010, 1:15 PM
My mini is 25 years old. I've never had an issue with it. Sure, 3" groups are common at 100 yards with it (scoped from a rest), but I've never paid attention to what ammo I am shooting through it and I've certainly never shot match type ammo. Its hard to not jump on the saiga or some other flavor-of-the-month band wagon. But then I realize that I already have something that will last forever, never let me down, hit whatever I need to within 200 yards, and I know I can shoot any .223 I find anywhere through it.

www.ar15.com/content/swat/200203-AR-15_vs_Mini-14.pdf

thayne
06-22-2010, 1:18 PM
I can't even tell you how many times I've seen that guy injure himself, or do something really "mall ninja-esque" on his videos.

huh? Ive watched just about all his videos and never seen him injure himself. Nothing I would consider and injury anyway. He's out there doing stuff and taking the time to put the videos together for peoples enjoyment. I think they're great. Way better than the crap you see on TV.

OneSevenDeuce
06-22-2010, 1:28 PM
huh? Ive watched just about all his videos and never seen him injure himself. Nothing I would consider and injury anyway. He's out there doing stuff and taking the time to put the videos together for peoples enjoyment. I think they're great. Way better than the crap you see on TV.

A buddy of mine and I laughed for about 10 minutes straight over a bloody hand once. Personally, and I know this is off topic so I wont go into it too much, if you want a great youtube channel to watch, made by a great guy, check out hickok45.

http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45

Dragunov
06-22-2010, 1:39 PM
"Survival" means durability and reliabilty, the plastic rifle is neither.
Will the SU survive a tumble down a hill?
Will it survive a drop from a tree or building?
Will it survive an impact from a blunt object?

The mini will take much more abuse then the SU IMO, making much more reliable for "survival".

You are mistaken, it isn't plastic, It's some kind of composite. It is a PITA to file a burr off of it.

Could I use it for a club?? No, and I never intend on it. I admit, a Mini would make a better club.

But....

I've dropped mine from a barn roof and it didnt break. If it can do that, a tumble down a hill will not harm it.

If you mean like a sledgehammer or aluminum ballbat, No, it wouldn't survive that. Niether would a Mini.

Don't get me wrong, I like Minis, but not for me. Accuracy is horrible on the old ones and dicey on the newer ones. Fine for those who like them.

Too much $$$ for the accuracy for me. As another poster noted, 2-3"@ 50yds is unacceptable for a $750 firearm.

Now, If I could get a Mini for $750 that would shoot around 1.25 to 1.5 @ 100yds or better with whatever ammo I used in it consistantly, I would no doubt purchase one. This is the standard for any rifle in my house.

Dragunov
06-22-2010, 1:41 PM
To the OP: You'll find any number of people expressing all manner of opinions on this type of subject, most of whom have no experience with the weapons in question, or insufficient experience from which to form any kind of informed opinion.

Owning both a Mini-14 and a SU16CA, I tend to think that maybe - just maybe - I might be able to offer an opinion.

In a nutshell, early SU16CA were known to be problematic in various ways effecting both reliability and accuracy. This is widely accepted to be no longer the case. I find mine to be reliable and reasonably accurate.

There have been some spotty runs of the Mini-14 as well. Current production is solid and reasonably accurate. The garand-type action is very reliable.

Neither of these rifles are intended for daily use in battle-harsh environments. If you need that ... look for something else.
Truer words hath not been spoken!

dfletcher
06-22-2010, 1:54 PM
I have an early 90's mini-14 with the pencil barrel and I can shoot 2" groups at 100 yards no problem. I think people bagging on the mini's accuracy is a bunch of FUD and any weakness in accuracy is made up in pure hardcore reliability, with factory mags or course.

I've had two pencil barrel Minis & both were reliable as hell, went bang every time I pulled the trigger. Were reliably inaccurate and people 3 benches down reliably complained I was pelting them with empties - Chabot has a few of my casing stuck mouth first into their rafters. :o

But still, I really like the gun and sent it off to Accuracy Systems for some work - shorter, heavier threaded stainless barrel, action bedded & other odds & ends. Personally I don't think I'd buy a pencil barreled Mini. I'm glad some folks have one that shoots well, but I'd have no issue buying one of the newer, heavier 16" barreled ones. Seems they do fine out of the box.

I think when folks view the Mini as a modern M1 Carbine all is well, that's pretty much all I ever expected from mine.

slobson
06-22-2010, 1:59 PM
Nor would I pick either rifle in a "survival" situation...if surviving means you lost in nowhere without food, I'd consider a Savage Model 24 with .22 lr over 20ga.

If surviving means zombies, I'd choose an AR.

The KelTec is like a GSG-5...a plastic gun made by children for children.

I've had 3 KelTec's, all produced within the last 2 years, all were poo. All were returned to the maker for warranty issues, usually problematic feeding with a variety of commercial and US military ammo. They all got sold after KelTec repaired them:(

While not especially accurate, the Mini will go on forever. Ruger was smart to use a Garand-ish action with its inherent reliability. For a 'truck gun' that's minute-of-beer-can precise, the Mini is the only choice.

The Mini won't stop.:D

-hanko

not to say anything bad about the mini, but any truck would be far better armed with an SKS ;)

VictorFranko
06-22-2010, 2:09 PM
I have a Kel-Tec SU16-B.
It is an inexpensive, lightweight folding rifle, not a whole lot more.

I had two warranty repairs with the Kel-Tec before ever firing the weapon.
I bought the rifle new from a dealer back east, so I never got the chance to check it out before buying.
First, the assembly pin holes in the stock did not line up, and the stock could not be locked open in the extended or firing position.
The holes were off a good .030-.035 from one side to the other. This tells me they never even checked it at the factory.
I returned the rifle and they fixed it, but it took about 5 weeks.
When I finally got the rifle back, it was out to the range to sight it in.
I'll be darned, the detent on the front sight was screwed up and the front sight could not be adjusted.
I removed the sight and sent it back to Kel-Tec. They quickly sent me a new front sight.
Kel-Tec has been fine with the warranty work, but really, these problems should have never made it through QC.
Also, the plastic stock and forend were poorly deburred and had many sharp edges along the parting lines. A few minutes with a burr knife and an emery board took care of that, but once again, really......
You get what you pay for in life, and the SU16 is a nice little, inexpensive folding rifle, nothing more.
I keep it in my "get home" pack in my truck. It suits my needs for what I expect out of it.

-hanko
06-22-2010, 3:12 PM
not to say anything bad about the mini, but any truck would be far better armed with an SKS ;)
No disagreement, but OP's choices did not include an SKS.

My truck is armed with an unpinned FAL Para, short barrel. 3 or 4 20's, one in the gun. ;)

-hanko

popeye4
06-22-2010, 3:47 PM
No disagreement, but OP's choices did not include an SKS.

My truck is armed with an unpinned FAL Para, short barrel. 3 or 4 20's, one in the gun. ;)

-hanko

I will treat you with the utmost courtesy if we ever meet! (Which I would do anyway, even if you weren't so heavily protected!).

I bought 3 Russian SKS rifles about a year after I bought the Mini14 (around 1994), for roughly half what I paid for the Mini. I should have sold the Mini and bought 6 more SKS's!

grammaton76
06-22-2010, 4:04 PM
And w/ an AR in CA we have to gimp the crap out of it. At least w/ a Mini and SU we can have detachable mags like God intended.

Agreed that detachable mags are "like God intended".

Disagree that an MMG is "gimping the crap out of" an AR.

Screw that "form over function" mentality... I'll take the featureless AR with a release over an "ooo, it looks like an M4" bullet button monstrosity any day.

vf111
06-22-2010, 4:06 PM
not to say anything bad about the mini, but any truck would be far better armed with an SKS ;)

I'd rather have an M14 Scout w/ 40 rounds of 308 in a couple of pre-ban USGI mags....

k1dude
06-22-2010, 5:52 PM
I have both weapons. I like both for different reasons.

The SU-16 is great for a survival/bug-out weapon - or just a day hiking. It's less than 5 pounds and folds in half so you can put it in a daypack. It's reliable and accurate. It's more accurate than my Mini. And I can use my pre-ban hi-cap AR mags with it! It was never built to be a battle rifle. So why cry that it isn't?

The Mini is a sturdy, well built, truck type gun. It's tough and reliable. You can beat it up and it still works. It isn't as light or accurate as the SU-16, but it's much tougher.

If you can only own one .223/5.56 semi-auto, I would recommend the AR. If you don't have a lot of money, I would recommend the Saiga. But if you already have an AR and/or Saiga, the Mini or SU-16 would make great additions to any collection. I have them all and like them each for different reasons.

jvpark
06-22-2010, 6:17 PM
1. build your own AR
2. Mini14
3. Keltec

sevensix2x51
06-22-2010, 6:39 PM
Agreed that detachable mags are "like God intended".

Disagree that an MMG is "gimping the crap out of" an AR.

Screw that "form over function" mentality... I'll take the featureless AR with a release over an "ooo, it looks like an M4" bullet button monstrosity any day.

+1.

i own 2 mini-14's. they are great rifles. they really are the american ak47, as was so eloquently stated earlier. they run forever, dont need cleaning or lube, and will eat any ammo you feed it. not the most accurate rifle in the world, but they definitely hit potatoes and apples, or clay targets and coyotes. and plus, they arent destroyed by the simple act of firing them repeatedly, like i have personally seen the SU16 do. that is the deal-breaker for me.

Seesm
07-11-2010, 12:14 PM
I think his videos are ok and I think he shows a Mini in a nice light... This site is just down on Minis... I have a old Mini pile but woudl not trade it for anything.

mif_slim
07-11-2010, 2:13 PM
I've had both, one kt Su and 2 mini14 and one mini 30. I got lucky and my Su had no problem, shoots 1.25" at 100 yards, 5 shot groups now it's open up more since it has 8k+ rds thru her. No hiccups so far.

All my mini shot 16" groups. No lies but im thinking that I had 3 lemon. I sold them all and I did witness two others shoot the same. I heard they improved the mini in the recent ones so if they shoot well I wouldn't mind getting a other because they shoot with no issues besides accuracy.

Lead-Thrower
07-11-2010, 5:33 PM
I love my mini-14. You cant beat the Garand-type action!

KaLiFORNIA
07-11-2010, 5:42 PM
SU= reason to keep old NORMAL ar mags

xxsleepyxx
07-11-2010, 7:09 PM
No experience with the Mini 14 but the Kel-Tec is good for us urban folks. Living in Los Angeles I find that I will never leave the city and be up in the mountains so a survival rifle does not apply and is not important to my lifestyle. For a urban environment, I find the weight and foldability of the SU-16 a better choice. It is also lighter and can adapt to pre-ban magazines. People who contest its durability by testing as a club: I'm sure I can knock out someone with it and it will still function. The polymer is strong enough that I feel I can stand on the empty buttstock (without magazines) and it will withstand my 190 lb frame.