PDA

View Full Version : Restraining order


1911whore
06-22-2010, 8:44 AM
My best friend was slapped with a civil h arrassment restraining order from his ex girlfriend, the RO is completely false. She stole his truck and they were on title together, they broke up over 2 yrs ago and he is now worried that he is unable to buy guns. He goes to court on the RO in about a month so I told him I would ask around to see what his rights are. Any answers?

HowardW56
06-22-2010, 8:52 AM
He needs a lawyer...

paul0660
06-22-2010, 8:53 AM
The 4473 asks if he is CURRENTLY subject to a court order, so if she gets the RO to be permanent, he will not be able to purchase guns for the term of the order.

More importantly, he might have to give up any guns he owns now, either by storing them with the cops or selling them to a FFL. Have him read all the paperwork carefully.

CSDGuy
06-22-2010, 8:54 AM
They were on title together? I guess she took her truck... That's probably how the law will look at it. As to the rest of it, there's too much missing from this story to say what should be done... other than he's going to need a lawyer.

1911whore
06-22-2010, 8:55 AM
I have told him the same thing, but he simply can not afford one, he has emails and text messages that show she continually tried to communicate with him and he was ignoring her attempts to communicate , then she took his truck a few days later. He is beside himself

1911whore
06-22-2010, 9:01 AM
So, is he currently under a restraining order if it has not been made permenant? Or is it in effect and on his record while they await the trial? He is certain it will be dropped but he has a dros he is postponing, he is wondering if he should attempt the dros or will it fail?

HowardW56
06-22-2010, 9:02 AM
I know two people who had to deal with restraining orders....

THe first went to court alone and tried to defend himself... Mistake, the order was made permanent and he was ordered to stay away for a year or two, I'm not sure...

The second went with a lawyer, the temporary order was lifted and the case dismissed...

Your friend needs to find a way to hire a lawyer....

Casual_Shooter
06-22-2010, 9:07 AM
In my only experience with an RO, it seemed the hearing was set up so that lawyers were not needed. Not that your friend wouldn't benefit from one, but, generally speaking, it's not necessary.

With regards to his "rights", I'm not sure what you're asking.

paul0660
06-22-2010, 9:07 AM
Yes, even if it is temporary, it is a valid order, and he has to answer yes on the 4473.

If he got pissed and threatened her, the order will probably stick.

1911whore
06-22-2010, 9:11 AM
I know him and the situation very well, and he has NEVER threatened her ever. She stated he texted excessively after she took his truck, he has all texts printed , he is asking her why she took it and what he needs to do for her to bring it back.

paul0660
06-22-2010, 9:21 AM
Then it might get lifted. One right he does have is to have the hearing ASAP. Have him call the clerk of the court and find out if they can hurry it up.

RandyD
06-22-2010, 9:36 AM
The subject of restraining orders occurs about every month on this site. I am an attorney and I represent clients in restraining order hearings. As far as your friend's rights, he should read all of the documents that were attached to the restraining order. They fully explain his rights, obligations and duties. However, from the moment he was served, he had 24 hours to turn his weapons over to a law enforcement agency or sell them to a FFL. He just needs to read and follow the court orders.

A member posted above that restraining order hearings are set up so you can represent yourself. I have witnessed so many mistakes made by pro pers in court that I could write a book on how most of them made their situation worse. About 1 1/2 months ago, I helped and advised a member's brother over the phone and encouraged him to get an attorney. His case was clearly winable, but I learned afterwards that he represented himself and the result was a permanent ro was issued and he cannot own, possess or use a firearm. You really only have one shot at eliminating the temporary order and that is at the hearing. Appealing a judge's decision regarding a restraining order is very difficult to overcome at the appellate court level. Another very important factor to consider is the protected party can apply to have the permanent restraining order extended for another three years just before it expires, and the burden of proof to extend a restraining order is a lesser standard.

Glock22Fan
06-22-2010, 9:37 AM
A friend of mine's ex begged him over and over to come around and change the oil in her car. Reluctantly he eventually agreed. While he was there changing the oil, she phoned her lawyer and several friends and said he was standing in her driveway harrassing her. This was all repeated in court a few weeks later, omitting that he was there at her request to do her a favor. Fortunately, three of his kids heard all the conversations and testified so on his behalf in court. He still has his guns, but it did look dodgy for a while.She also claimed that she was scared he was going to get blind drunk and crash the car with the kids in it. He is a Mormon and has never had a drop of alcohol in his life.

Women can be strange creatures.

robcoe
06-22-2010, 9:37 AM
seriously, he needs to find some money somewhere and hire a lawyer. Cancel the cable subscription, sell something, anything, because without a lawyer he will get screwed and it could stick with him for life. Keep him from being able to get a job, buy a gun, just about anything with a background check.

1911whore
06-22-2010, 9:45 AM
How much is a lawyer to fight the RO against him, he may have someone he can get the money from.

robcoe
06-22-2010, 9:48 AM
How much is a lawyer to fight the RO against him, he may have someone he can get the money from.

You will probably have to call the specific law firm to find out their rates. I know some have flat fees, some are hourly, and some have payment plans, but whatever it costs it is worth it.

Billy Jack
06-22-2010, 9:49 AM
I know him and the situation very well, and he has NEVER threatened her ever. She stated he texted excessively after she took his truck, he has all texts printed , he is asking her why she took it and what he needs to do for her to bring it back.

Have your friend grow a set.
You, stop discussing his legal matters or any legal matters on a public forum.
Posting for him makes him look weak or challenged or both.
Have him consider making better social choices in the future.

See how simple that was? Brave, has low tolerance for those that can not control their personal lives and want others to assist them. They are a drain on law enforcement, the courts and society in general.

Billy Jack
'The force is strong with this one'


www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

1911whore
06-22-2010, 9:56 AM
Billy Jack,

I posted here because there are a lot of folks with a wealth of information that MAY give my buddy some direction. He is a little worried and as his friend I said I would see if I could get any direction for him here. I am not posting his name and the REAL drain on the system, courts, and law enforcement is the crazy women that would do such a thing. My buddy lives a clean life, works hard, and is a damn good father and to have someone he hasnt been involved with for years turn his life on its ear is concerning.

If you do not have anything to contribute then please feel free to skip past the thread unless you know the woman involved in this particular situation and feel a need to spew hostility.

paul0660
06-22-2010, 9:57 AM
I couldn't have put it better, if I were an arrogant know it all, BJ.

As far as lawyers go, remember that Animal House was based on actual people, most of whom eventually passed the bar. The buddy needs to get a good one who isn't snowing you on your chances of success to make the fee.......it is what they do.

SgtDinosaur
06-22-2010, 9:57 AM
I have been arrested twice as an adult. Both times I retained an attorney even though once I needed to use a credit card. I trust the Criminal Justice System about as far as I can throw it.

BusBoy
06-22-2010, 10:02 AM
Brave, has low tolerance for those that can not control their personal lives and want others to assist them. They are a drain on law enforcement, the courts and society in general.


Wow... where did you get your crystal ball from that foretold of possible spontaneous and irrational behavior from a relationship that went south from a significant other that you thought you knew?? Simply Classic.:rolleyes:

Billy Jack
06-22-2010, 10:12 AM
Wow... where did you get your crystal ball from that foretold of possible spontaneous and irrational behavior from a relationship that went south from a significant other that you thought you knew?? Simply Classic.:rolleyes:

As LEO, I had to deal with people that constantly made bad personal choices and then expected police, the courts and various social agencies to solve their problems. Ever heard of personal responsibility?

In addition, a significant number of LE deaths occur when answering domestic calls. Each person is personally responsible for both creating and solving their own problems. You all want to own and carry firearms but many are incapable of handling your own problems. On the one hand you want government to leave you alone. On the other hand, you want government, LEOS, the courts, social services to come along and clean up your messy lives. Which way do you want it? Select one or the other.

Billy Jack
'The Force is strong with this one'

www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

paul0660
06-22-2010, 10:17 AM
Select one or the other.

From arrogant to ridiculous. I am AMAZED that you think this sort of diatribe helps you with your other endeavors.

1911whore
06-22-2010, 10:20 AM
BJ,,

As a LEO I am sure you see women do this stuff all the time then, right?

Bottom line is this......My best friend is a solid guy, he exited an unhealthy relationship years ago, then his ex who is a welfare recipient and jobless who has a car because she talked fellow church goers to donate it to her decided to take his truck over two years after they split, HE was living his life, taking care of his child, working everyday, and NOT communicating with her dispite her many attempts to attempt to regain a relationship wiith him. Her car broke down she didnt have the money to fix it then she decided to take HIS truck because he never had her removed from title(she wouldnt agree to remove herself from it actually) She has broken into his homes in the past and he swept it under the rug because he doesnt believe in using courts and police to solve his issues. She took his truck and the very next day filed a RO so he couldnt have a right to reobtain his truck even though he would never have gone and just took it back. NOW HE is fighting against an RO filed by a nutjob. period. I am simply on here seeing if I can get some insight for the actual victim in this.

BJ<
As a LEO you HAD to deal with this? Meaning you are no longer a LEO?? I can not imagine why:)

ssilverado60
06-22-2010, 10:26 AM
I went through a situation somewhat similar but the accusations were even more ridiculous and crazy than anything being talked about here. I didnt have a lawyer because i thought it was open and shut and it would be dismissed as soon as I walked in to the courtroom. Long story short, it took me 2 years and about 3 times as much money with a laywer to fix the mistake I made because I didnt hire a lawyer in a first place.

The courts will always side with the woman, it doesnt matter how outlandish the accusations may seem. Those judges see women coming in beaten and bruised all the time and flat out dont care what anyone says, they will grant a restraining order to just about anyone for any crazy reason you can imagine . . .

Get a lawyer, its the only way he will have a chance

winnre
06-22-2010, 10:26 AM
A RO is not automatic, she has to show cause. If he was anything but sweet as pie to her she can use that against him. He can argue his case than the RO is unnecessary as he desires no contact with her anyway. And if the RO does kick in, make sure it is mutual and goes both ways!

1911whore
06-22-2010, 10:28 AM
If he can't afford to have guns, then maybe he shouldn't have guns. Owning guns is not cheap - occasionally it involves extra expenses, such as being able to retain a lawyer.

What?? Last time I checked a cost in owning a gun and being a law abiding citizen did not involve setting aside legal fees. That is rediculous.

I guess next time I submit a dros I should also open a legal defense acct too, huh? Just because I bought or own a gun, right?

Billy Jack
06-22-2010, 10:28 AM
From arrogant to ridiculous. I am AMAZED that you think this sort of diatribe helps you with your other endeavors.

Experience, training and point of reference devoid of emotion. You should entertain same sometime. By the way, does this negate all my good efforts and are we still buds? Brave speak with tongue in cheek.

Perhaps my perspective comes from always being on the solving side of bad judgment calls.

Brave views calguns posts as he did wrestling when he was Papoose, for entertainment value only as nothing is real.



Billy Jack
'The Force is strong with this one'


www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

1911whore
06-22-2010, 11:03 AM
Maybe bweise or gene will chime in with some insight

berto
06-22-2010, 11:08 AM
DIY or get a lawyer. If your friend insists on the DIY method he should at least consult with a lawyer so as not to walk into court compl;etely unprepared.

There's an old saying about a lawyer who represents himself. It's even more applicable to a non-lawyer who represents himself.

jl123
06-22-2010, 11:20 AM
What?? Last time I checked a cost in owning a gun and being a law abiding citizen did not involve setting aside legal fees. That is rediculous.

I guess next time I submit a dros I should also open a legal defense acct too, huh? Just because I bought or own a gun, right?

Welcome to California.

Scotty
06-22-2010, 12:19 PM
My roommate just went through this. Ex's dad assaulted him. She filed a RO against him. He and his parents didn't want to fork out the $1500 for a lawyer. Judge never gave him a chance to plead his case so now he has a RO for a year. He had all the documents, police reports, death threats against him. Nope, judge didn't even look at it. He now regrets not getting a lawyer. He is now getting a lawyer to get a RO against the dad to use as a bargining chip.

Moral of the story, GET A LAWYER.

Steyrlp10
06-22-2010, 12:38 PM
How much is a lawyer to fight the RO against him, he may have someone he can get the money from.

Depending on which county your friend lives in, he can try the Bar Association for a referral -- both on the Internet or by the phone book. It's always nice to have an attorney referral from a friend, but this may not be the case, right?

Depending on the firm, some consults are free while some have a fee. It takes a bit of footwork, but as the other Calgunners have said on here, it would be bad to make an appearance on his own. Judges have about a 3-minute attention span, not to mention your friend needing to file a response long before his appearance. He needs to understand that he just can't walk in and say what he wants. That's not how courtrooms operate.

Best of luck to your friend!

RandyD
06-22-2010, 1:53 PM
How much is a lawyer to fight the RO against him, he may have someone he can get the money from.

My minimum retainer for restraining orders is $1,500. Most attorneys charge an hourly fee and earn the retainer as they work on the case. Some attorneys will charge a flat fee but watch out for that because that usually means they will only appear in court once and restraining order cases can involve muliple hearings.

Glock22Fan
06-22-2010, 2:54 PM
Beg or borrow the money. Sell the baby if you have to, but get a lawyer. Otherwise give up everything now and, perhaps, forever.

It is wisely said that anyone, lawyer or not, who represents themselves, has a fool for a client.

Sinixstar
06-22-2010, 4:24 PM
He needs a lawyer...

Really - the thread could have ended right there...

Timberwolf
06-22-2010, 4:32 PM
A CLETS Rest Order is nothing to sneeze at - he needs to lawyer up

11Z50
06-22-2010, 4:46 PM
I personally just went thru this hell and I can tell anybody one thing....get an attorney. If you don't, kiss your gun rights goodbye.

My ex lied like a rug and the judge granted the DVTRO (temp), which still meant I had to sell all my guns. I had a CLETS order on me for about a month.

About $15k and a month later, the truth came out and the judge threw it out of court. I got my CCW back and I'm in the process of buying new guns to replace the ones I had to sell. It's a painful process. The ex committed perjury and it's no big deal. Her only punishment is she has to pay her lawyer 15K too.

If anyone who enjoys guns is threatened with such a travesty, get a good attorney and prepare for a rough ride. This situation is becoming more and more common, and angry wenches know they can really screw up a guy's life if they want to. Even if they lie there are no consequences for them.

thayne
06-22-2010, 5:28 PM
Once we have incorporation will it make it more difficult for the government/courts to strip your rights away in cases like this? It just seems insane that someone can say anything they want and bam! you have to sell all your guns? WTF?

Big E
06-22-2010, 5:46 PM
Survey says...........your buddy needs a lawyer. End of story. Too much can go wrong. He also needs to file for an RO against the women and keep it enforced (i.e. if she violates, call the police).

rkt88edmo
06-22-2010, 5:48 PM
Once we have incorporation will it make it more difficult for the government/courts to strip your rights away in cases like this? It just seems insane that someone can say anything they want and bam! you have to sell all your guns? WTF?

I don't think incorporation will help.

To the OP, its pretty clear that everyone who has been through this personally has one message: Get a lawyer or get screwed.

grammaton76
06-22-2010, 5:55 PM
Once we have incorporation will it make it more difficult for the government/courts to strip your rights away in cases like this? It just seems insane that someone can say anything they want and bam! you have to sell all your guns? WTF?

That's exactly the case.

And it's very unlikely that incorporation will change this.

11Z50
06-22-2010, 6:10 PM
What I want every guy out there to understand is this; the situation here in California makes it an offense to possess a penis. I left my wife of 15 years because she was unbearable to live with. Never laid a hand on her in any violent way. We tried the marriage counseling thing and it didn't work. Three months later, I filed for divorce because I realized I was much happier without her than with her. She threatened to make a DV allegation as leverage to get me to come home. I did not. She tried to report a DV incident to LE, but they refused to take a report. 4 Months after I left, she hired an attorney and made a civil allegation for a DVTRO. BAM! That's how easy it is. I eventually prevailed, got my CCW and gun rights back, but it cost me dearly in many ways.

Be careful, boys, who you choose to cohabitate with. It could cost you very dearly in many ways. I thought I trusted this woman, whom I was married to for 15 years, but she lied and I took a reaming.

HokeySon
06-22-2010, 6:34 PM
The other problem with these things is that the courts generally do not see that any harm results from being under a restraining order. Judges just think they are ordering someone to stay away from someone else. No big deal they think. They have to be made to understand how important this is.

Oh and just to even things out a bit, I too am a CA lawyer and the last one of these I did involved a man trying to get a restraining order against a woman he had dated (my client) to use as 'leverage' against her. not all crazy people are female.

11Z50
06-22-2010, 7:49 PM
The other problem with these things is that the courts generally do not see that any harm results from being under a restraining order. Judges just think they are ordering someone to stay away from someone else. No big deal they think. They have to be made to understand how important this is.

Oh and just to even things out a bit, I too am a CA lawyer and the last one of these I did involved a man trying to get a restraining order against a woman he had dated (my client) to use as 'leverage' against her. not all crazy people are female.

BS, Counselor. Did your client have to sell her guns? It is a big deal to have to sell all your guns, which you have collected for years, in spite of what you lawyers and judges think. What did you charge her to defend herself against a wrongful allegation? I'll wager it was way less than 15K!

Cokebottle
06-22-2010, 8:01 PM
I have told him the same thing, but he simply can not afford one
Then he's screwed.

He's also stupid for having someone other than his wife or a parent on title for his vehicle.

Go to a local gun shop right NOW and spend the $35 each to PPT his guns to you (or another trusted friend).
After the RO goes into effect, if offsite storage isn't an option, he'll be forced to sell them.

anthonyca
06-22-2010, 9:16 PM
I still can't believe people on this site are so suprised by these situations. It is also alarming how many people think incorporation will completely solve this problem. What ever you do, DO NOT skimp on a good lawyer, WITH experience in this area, so this doesn't get turned from a TRO into a RO. If hat happens you are federally $@!?&@ and could face 10 years and be a felon if you are found to touch a gun or ammo. http://www.womenslaw.orc/laws_state_type.php?id=298&state_code=RI&open_id=746

But then again these things don't happen to people like us. :rolleyes: These back door rules, one by one, is how most people loose gun and other rights.

RandyD
06-22-2010, 9:31 PM
When judges are presented the RO application, they view the supporting facts as if they are true (unless something on the application indicates that the supporting facts are less than true) then the judge determines if a TRO should be issued. I have represented a couple of clients where the judge denied the TRO but still set a hearing to determine if an RO should be issued.

In my experience and opinion, I believe many of the judges who issue RO's are insensitive to the burdens (attorney fees, restraints of freedom and firearm relinquishments) they are placing on the respondent.

In response to the parties who are crazy. I have encountered too many of them, and in my opinion most of them (my estimate is approx. 80%) are women. It is their means of getting back at a man using the force and authority of someone else (court and police). Women also use this process to gain the upper hand in custody and visitation proceedings. If the court restrains a father, in every case that I have been involved in, the father has supevised visitations until the hearing.

HokeySon
06-22-2010, 9:36 PM
BS, Counselor. Did your client have to sell her guns? It is a big deal to have to sell all your guns, which you have collected for years, in spite of what you lawyers and judges think. What did you charge her to defend herself against a wrongful allegation? I'll wager it was way less than 15K!

Whoa there cowboy!! Not sure what you saw in my post that made you think I did not understand that it is a big deal to have to give up your guns. Frankly, I couldn't part with some of mine. I get it. The problem is that in every one of these cases I have dealt with, the judge did not get it -- which was my point -- every one of them started with the attitude that ordering mutual restraining orders was no big deal -- almost like sending squabbling children to their rooms. I had to argue my butt off to make them understand it WAS a big deal. And, I do get it that you got screwed by your former significant other. The system sucks -- no two ways about it.

In the case I referred to, the issue was not guns as she did not have any. But that the man was using the process to further harass my client in other ways. It is just the flip side of the coin. IN both situations, the complaining parties were using the process as a sword to do damage to the other person, not the shield the law was intended to be. It is wrong. And I did charged her way less than 15k if that matters.

Again, not sure how I offended you, but you have my apologies for doing so.

paul0660
06-22-2010, 9:41 PM
Well put Hokey. Up here in the sticks I have witnessed RO hearings done successfully without counsel, but a good attorney might be worth the dough elsewhere. YMMV IANAL

HokeySon
06-22-2010, 9:47 PM
When judges are presented the RO application, they view the supporting facts as if they are true (unless something on the application indicates that the supporting facts are less than true) then the judge determines if a TRO should be issued. I have represented a couple of clients where the judge denied the TRO but still set a hearing to determine if an RO should be issued.

In my experience and opinion, I believe many of the judges who issue RO's are insensitive to the burdens (attorney fees, restraints of freedom and firearm relinquishments) they are placing on the respondent.

In response to the parties who are crazy. I have encountered too many of them, and in my opinion most of them (my estimate is approx. 80%) are women. It is their means of getting back at a man using the force and authority of someone else (court and police). Women also use this process to gain the upper hand in custody and visitation proceedings. If the court restrains a father, in every case that I have been involved in, the father has supevised visitations until the hearing.

I do not disagree with anything you have written.

I seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest by pointing out that they are not all women. Heck, I had one where a whole crazy family was seeking a RO against their neighbor (my client). But I agree that the majority are women and are playing the system.

Whiskey_Sauer
06-22-2010, 9:50 PM
Let me put this simply:

1. Always hire a lawyer. If nothing else, you will have someone (a trained professional) arguing for your credibility, as opposed to you arguing your own credibility. That makes a huge difference.

2. Always, always, always file a written response. Don't just assume you'll be able to present your side of the case in the 5 minutes or so the judge will allow you to testify. Especially if your case is being called at the end of the calendar. And if you're not a good writer, aren't good at spelling, grammar, etc., get someone to help you. Maintain a good, calm and respectful demeanor at the hearing.

3. Understand that the burden on a restraining order prohibiting harassment (CCP 527.6) is very high, i.e., "clear and convincing evidence." Put this in your reply papers. Understand the statute and what the petitioner needs to prove.

The courts will always side with the woman, it doesnt matter how outlandish the accusations may seem. Those judges see women coming in beaten and bruised all the time and flat out dont care what anyone says, they will grant a restraining order to just about anyone for any crazy reason you can imagine . . .

False.

Omil
06-22-2010, 10:04 PM
My best friend was slapped with a civil h arrassment restraining order from his ex girlfriend, the RO is completely false. She stole his truck and they were on title together, they broke up over 2 yrs ago and he is now worried that he is unable to buy guns. He goes to court on the RO in about a month so I told him I would ask around to see what his rights are. Any answers?

My son went though this before with his x' girlfriend, he went to get help from a lawyer, RO lifted, case closed. Shortly after that he bought a few guns without any problems. Tell your friends to get HELP, it's worth it. FREEDOM is everything!

RandyD
06-22-2010, 10:04 PM
I do not disagree with anything you have written.

I seem to have stirred up a hornet's nest by pointing out that they are not all women. Heck, I had one where a whole crazy family was seeking a RO against their neighbor (my client). But I agree that the majority are women and are playing the system.

This area of law is very emotion driven. I have refused to be retained by a few of the potential clients that sought my services. I have to play oneupsmanship with you :rolleyes: I recently represented a client whose parents and adult siblings divided and took sides and they kept litigating RO's against each other. It was intense, and I was left thinking that we should allow people permits to engage in dualing again.

HokeySon
06-22-2010, 10:26 PM
This area of law is very emotion driven. I have refused to be retained by a few of the potential clients that sought my services. I have to play oneupsmanship with you :rolleyes: I recently represented a client whose parents and adult siblings divided and took sides and they kept litigating RO's against each other. It was intense, and I was left thinking that we should allow people permits to engage in dualing again.

yeah I hear ya. I actually have two pistols in a case in my office and the plaque on them reads "Alternative Dispute Resolution." I have to put them away sometimes so they don't actually get used for that purpose.:o

RandyD
06-22-2010, 10:44 PM
yeah I hear ya. I actually have two pistols in a case in my office and the plaque on them reads "Alternative Dispute Resolution." I have to put them away sometimes so they don't actually get used for that purpose.:o

Now that is funny. I should get a matching pair of dueling pistols and/or swords to hang on my office wall for that purpose.

whitey
06-23-2010, 7:17 AM
I know two people who had to deal with restraining orders....

THe first went to court alone and tried to defend himself... Mistake, the order was made permanent and he was ordered to stay away for a year or two, I'm not sure...

The second went with a lawyer, the temporary order was lifted and the case dismissed...

Your friend needs to find a way to hire a lawyer....

This should be made a stickey clear an to the point. In English that everyone should be able to understand.

whitey
06-23-2010, 7:25 AM
Have your friend grow a set.
You, stop discussing his legal matters or any legal matters on a public forum.
Posting for him makes him look weak or challenged or both.
Have him consider making better social choices in the future.

See how simple that was? Brave, has low tolerance for those that can not control their personal lives and want others to assist them. They are a drain on law enforcement, the courts and society in general.

Billy Jack
'The force is strong with this one'


www.californiaconcealedcarry.com


I have seen men have a fight to the finish with other men blood all over the place. Same men when it comes to lady a 103 lb 5'2 an the law will have him running way like a little girl.

keep posting for your friend.

11Z50
06-23-2010, 7:31 AM
Not only in my case but in many others, all a woman has to do is make an allegation, even with no evidence, and the judge will grant the DVTRO. The judge does this because he is an elected official, and he doesn't want to be the one that denied the temporary order and later the petitioner gets whacked by the respondent. Unfortunately, this triggers the sale of all weapons, revocation of CCW and the CLETS order. A hearing is held later, and evidence can be presented to show the petitioner is lying in order to get revenge on her spouse. As in my case, everything gets thrown out and gun rights are restored. Unfortunately, the damage has been done and there are no penalties for the woman who lied in court and maliciously prosecuted her ex-spouse.

Women know this, and will often use the system to leverage a divorce settlement. If there was a penalty for maliciously filing for a DVTRO, and perjury, things might be different. Although I am sure there are a few instances where the roles were reversed, ie the lying party is the male, I would submit that 99% of the time it is the woman who maliciously prosecutes.

StandUpGuy
06-23-2010, 7:49 AM
Question - I've heard of establishing a trust for Class 3 firearms, so the firearms are owned by the trust and not by the individual, though the individual has possession of the arms.

Would establishing a trust for all of your guns protect you from having to sell them in the case of a restraining order being filed? As a C&R holder, I'd hate to be forced to sell, even though I don't think there's an RO in my future... :-)

paul0660
06-23-2010, 7:55 AM
I don't see an exception for class 3:

http://law.onecle.com/california/civil-procedure/527.9.html

RandyD
06-23-2010, 10:59 AM
Not only in my case but in many others, all a woman has to do is make an allegation, even with no evidence, and the judge will grant the DVTRO. The judge does this because he is an elected official, and he doesn't want to be the one that denied the temporary order and later the petitioner gets whacked by the respondent. Unfortunately, this triggers the sale of all weapons, revocation of CCW and the CLETS order. A hearing is held later, and evidence can be presented to show the petitioner is lying in order to get revenge on her spouse. As in my case, everything gets thrown out and gun rights are restored. Unfortunately, the damage has been done and there are no penalties for the woman who lied in court and maliciously prosecuted her ex-spouse.

Women know this, and will often use the system to leverage a divorce settlement. If there was a penalty for maliciously filing for a DVTRO, and perjury, things might be different. Although I am sure there are a few instances where the roles were reversed, ie the lying party is the male, I would submit that 99% of the time it is the woman who maliciously prosecutes.

Sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience, and I have seen cases like yours. Unfortunately, I have never seen a judge refer a party who perjures themselves to a DA for prosecution. However, I recall one case where the mother abused this process in 1997. I was able to present sufficient evidence against her and got my client custody of their children and last year, 12 years later, the mother filed a motion for custody and my work done in 1997 was cited by the judge and persuaded him to maintain that the mother was still untrustworthy and unreliable. So sometimes the process will work.

Steyrlp10
06-23-2010, 12:17 PM
.

Although I am sure there are a few instances where the roles were reversed, ie the lying party is the male

I'm living proof that there is indeed one man who tells fibs in court against his wife.

Leon
06-23-2010, 1:59 PM
I know him and the situation very well, and he has NEVER threatened her ever. She stated he texted excessively after she took his truck, he has all texts printed , he is asking her why she took it and what he needs to do for her to bring it back.


If all of the “get a lawyer” comments have not gotten through to your buddy, tell him to carefully review all of the statutes dealing with the DVPA. Since you are discussing firearms restrictions I’m presuming she brought an action under the DVPA (that is, she is seeking a CLETS order - it will be clear on teh pleadings he was served with).

I’m going to go out on a limb here and presume that your buddy might think he can tell the judge that “she took my truck”, “I never threatened her or in any way physically harmed her” and “I just texted her asking for my truck back” and avoid the resraining order.

Tell him to look at the definition of the past “abuse” necessary for granting a DVPA restraining order. Of course this abuse includes physical harm or attempted or threatened physical harm and sexual assaults.

What many people aren’t aware of, however, is that under the DVPA, abuse can also come in the form of persistent unwanted phone calls or letters as well as reading and publicly disclosing someone’s confidential e-mails.

So, your buddy can, among other things, lose his rights to own firearms for three years (or more) if the court finds he did “text her excessively after she took the truck.” Also as her name was on title, he will likely have an uphill battle proving it was in fact “his” truck. Thus, without very good representation to explain and distinguish all of the facts to the Judge, there is a good chance that the hypothetical “defense”, that I presented above, will instead be viewed as a confession!

This is not an area to try to save a few bucks. Unfortunately, he needs to get an attorney. If he does not know of an attorney who is thoroughly experienced in THIS area of the law, tell him to call his local county’s bar association as most operate referral services. If he really has no money, many offer low- or no- fess services.

glockman19
06-23-2010, 2:14 PM
I had a tenant who abandoned a unit make a false TRO. I did not get rid of Amy weapons. He did not appear in court and the matter was dismissed. Later that day, I had him served. He paid in full the day before trial.

kcbrown
06-23-2010, 2:17 PM
Frankly, if incorporation does nothing to curb this nonsense, then as far as I'm concerned, no reasonable person could possibly believe that incorporation is really worth anything.

Why? Because nothing can be considered a right if it can be arbitrarily removed without even so much as due process!

If it is "Constitutional" to strip your "right" to keep and bear arms merely based on hearsay (which is precisely what these TROs are based on), then I guarantee the state will figure out a way to bootstrap that into a means to strip RKBA from everyone they don't explicitly and arbitrarily approve of. We'll be right back at "may issue" CCW, only this time the justification will be different.

At some point, there will be a collision between this TRO nonsense and RKBA in the courts. The direction that goes will determine whether the 2nd Amendment remains a real right or becomes a right on paper only.

KylaGWolf
06-23-2010, 11:29 PM
I know him and the situation very well, and he has NEVER threatened her ever. She stated he texted excessively after she took his truck, he has all texts printed , he is asking her why she took it and what he needs to do for her to bring it back.

Well I would have him get a copy of all the texts from the cell phone company or ISP if that is what he used. Not just copies but something that will show when they were made and who initiated the texts. If he can show hers was the beginning he may be able to show it is he that is being harassed. But a TRO is just as valid as an RO. Why did he not remove her name from the title when they split. Sounds like she had a legal right to the truck if her name is on it.

thayne
06-23-2010, 11:34 PM
Well I would have him get a copy of all the texts from the cell phone company or ISP if that is what he used. Not just copies but something that will show when they were made and who initiated the texts. If he can show hers was the beginning he may be able to show it is he that is being harassed. But a TRO is just as valid as an RO. Why did he not remove her name from the title when they split. Sounds like she had a legal right to the truck if her name is on it.

if its financed; most of the time they wont remove a party. he would have had to refinance it. Its always a good idea in these situations, but people dont always think they need to do it. Also she would have had to agree to be taken off the title unless it is worded "Him or Her" Rather than "Him and Her"

citystar
08-24-2010, 5:15 PM
He posted this for a friend.. I LOL'ed

Munk
08-24-2010, 9:00 PM
Like the others said, Lawyer up. RO's and TRO's, and ESPECIALLY DVTRO's are serious business. I've read too many stories and heard a few first hand accounts of how abusive the TRO system is. I also think there should be MAJOR penalties for people who purjor themselves and abuse the court system in this way, even if it's carte blanche to take the person to civil court for any and all fees related to answering the bogus order, up to and including all time, lost wages, lost property etc...

They've got penalties for filing false police reports, why not for malicious prosecution and filing a false RO?

welchy
08-24-2010, 10:27 PM
Women can be strange creatures.

That is the nice way of saying byiotches is crazy.:rolleyes: