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View Full Version : .223 SS109 AP Legal?


Eargasm
06-21-2010, 9:32 PM
Just want to verify before purchasing, SS109 (steel-core), presumably AP, are legal in Cali, right?

Noobert
06-21-2010, 9:33 PM
Legal. IIRC, the popular M855 had the ss109

jtv3062
06-21-2010, 9:54 PM
It's the ap handgun ammo that's illegal.

-hanko
06-21-2010, 10:48 PM
Just want to verify before purchasing, SS109 (steel-core), presumably AP, are legal in Cali, right?
Incorrect presumption.

M855 (SS109 is the bullet, not the finished cartridge) was designed to penetrate Soviet soft body army while fragmenting. It's legal in CA and relatively accurate. Given the choice, get LC or Black Hills (if they make it). It's not AP.

The 5.56 AP equivalent is M995 which is designed not to fragment. It's good through 15mm of steel. You won't be able to buy it.;)

-hanko

RRangel
06-21-2010, 10:53 PM
Just want to verify before purchasing, SS109 (steel-core), presumably AP, are legal in Cali, right?

If you want to shoot that at your local range check with them first. Some ranges don't allow it.

OlderThanDirt
06-22-2010, 8:20 AM
It's the ap handgun ammo that's illegal.

Assuming it is considered AP by LE, there are a lot of AR pistols out there. I can see the potential for a problem if an AR pistol and AP ammo are found in close proximity. If M855 is designed to penetrate Soviet soft body armor and it is found in an AR pistol, I sense a potential problem. Personally, I would not want to be a test case.

-hanko
06-22-2010, 12:12 PM
Assuming it is considered AP by LE, there are a lot of AR pistols out there. I can see the potential for a problem if an AR pistol and AP ammo are found in close proximity. If M855 is designed to penetrate Soviet soft body armor and it is found in an AR pistol, I sense a potential problem. Personally, I would not want to be a test case.
LE does not consider M855 to be armor-piercing...

Comprehension is the potential problem;).

ATF considers handgun ammo to be of primary use in a handgun...e.g., .40SW, .38spl, 9mm parabellum, .45acp.

5.56/.223 ammo has primary use in a rifle...therefore, ATF does not consider it to be handgun ammo.

Next, the ATF has ALREADY ruled that M855 is NOT AP. My post stated M855 was designed as a FRAGMENTING round...that's NOT AP. M955 is designed to penetrate hard armor, it does NOT fragment...you can't buy it...it doesn't apply here.

ATF requires AP ammo to be marked with black on the bullet tip. M855 is marked with green.

M855 can be loaded in an AR pistol, and, one more time...the ATF has already ruled it's NOT AP.

The question has been beaten to death before, but it rises from the grave every so often.

-hanko

OlderThanDirt
06-22-2010, 1:30 PM
I'm not worried about ATF, my concern would be local LE that is way behind the curve on what is legal. If they perceive M855 to have armor piercing potential and its in a pistol, there is a problem. It doesn't help that M855 is marketed as "Penetrator Ammo" (especially by our friends at Cheaper than Dirt and Sportsmans Guide). My local LE department mostly think hicap mags are all illegal and don't recognize OLL ARs or AKs. I'm sure the department isn't 100 percent retarded, but they put up a pretty good front when it comes to firearm laws. To their credit, they have heard of open carry.

Regardless of the perception, I have many cases of this ammo, with a bunch of mags loaded up and ready to go.