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SPaikmos
06-20-2010, 4:25 PM
Met some dudes yesterday. One guy mentioned that CA has a legal maximum # of rounds that can be stored at home... said something around 36k rounds, inclusive of all calibers.

That's the first I've heard of this, and everyone there (except me) joked that they were in violation of said ordinance. I can certainly see the .22 shooters having more than a few bricks lying around, but anything else would be scary :eek:

I'd eventually like to have a cubic meter of ammo (like Edison's cubic foot of copper) although it'd be hard to give up on a new GT-R. But I digress.

So, is there an ammo limit in CA? Has anyone been persecuted for violating it? I would assume this would only happen in conjunction with some other crime, and not in and of itself...

Vtec44
06-20-2010, 4:34 PM
36k rounds huh? Damn, I need to work on my supply. :D Seriously, I don't know if there's a limitation on storage in CA.

Malthusian
06-20-2010, 4:35 PM
I should be good. I am pretty sure I have less then 36,000 rounds

thevic
06-20-2010, 4:36 PM
36001 and its a felony

Cokebottle
06-20-2010, 4:37 PM
Nope.

No limit.

There is a section in the building code that specifies a limit to the number of primers, and specifies limited on the amount of powder stored in "one magazine", but the PC does not address completed ammo.

Malthusian
06-20-2010, 4:41 PM
Primers 20K?

Power 20# over that requires the wooden box thing, then up to 50#

Am I close?

Mssr. Eleganté
06-20-2010, 4:41 PM
...One guy mentioned that CA has a legal maximum # of rounds that can be stored at home... said something around 36k rounds, inclusive of all calibers.

Then I need to sell some ammo quick, or buy a couple more houses.

Malthusian
06-20-2010, 4:43 PM
If you can afford that much ammo you probably have several houses

thevic
06-20-2010, 4:43 PM
just build a dog house and register the address a b c!

Cokebottle
06-20-2010, 4:44 PM
36001 and its a felony
????
CAL. FAC. CODE § 36001 :
The following information shall at all times appear plainly and in a conspicuous place on, or be securely attached to, every cap, bottle, can, or other container of all market milk which is sold:
(a)The class or grade of the market milk, unless the market milk is being sold in bulk to a distributor.
(b)The word "raw," if the market milk has not been pasteurized.
(c)The word "pasteurized" if the market milk has been pasteurized.
(d)The name and address of the distributor or original bottler.
If the name and address of the distributor is used, the milk products plant license number of the original bottler, as assigned annually by the director, may be used in lieu of the name and address of the original bottler.

CAL. HSC. CODE § 36001
The Legislature further finds that certainty as to the validity of actions previously taken by state public bodies and local public entities, as well as the actions to be taken in the future, requires the validation of actions previously taken and the establishment of means for determining the validity of those actions to be taken in the future.
CAL. PRC. CODE § 36001
The Legislature hereby finds and declares all of the following:
(a)The Pacific Ocean and its many renewable and nonrenewable resources are of economic, environmental, aesthetic, recreational, military, and scientific importance to the people of the state and the nation.
(b)Humankind will benefit from ocean resources as technology continues to develop. Our ability to protect, preserve, coordinate, develop, and utilize these resources requires that we do so in an informed and balanced manner.
(c)On March 10, 1983, President Reagan established by proclamation an exclusive economic zone for the United States, declaring sovereign rights over living and nonliving resources within the 200-mile United States exclusive economic zone (EEZ).
(d)On December 27, 1988, President Reagan extended by proclamation the seaward limit of United States territorial waters from 3 to 12 nautical miles.
(e)The establishment of the exclusive economic zone and the extension of the Territorial Sea create zones under federal jurisdiction adjacent to state waters, and provide opportunity for all coastal states of the United States to more fully exercise and assert their responsibilities pertaining to the protection, conservation, and development of ocean resources under United States jurisdiction.
(f)Exploration, scientific research, development, and production of ocean resources resulting from differing jurisdictions and multiple programs in federal and state waters, will increase the chance of conflicting demands on ocean resources and uses, such as those for food, energy, minerals, and waste disposal.
(g)Resolution of conflicting interests in the use, development, and conservation of ocean resources will become one of the major policy issues facing the state. The problems which will emerge in the future due to interactions of competing users are already prevalent to some degree today.
(h)State agencies do have particular regulatory or program interests in protecting and managing resources and uses in state waters and for coordinating state interests in the territorial sea and the EEZ, but the state needs to formulate a framework of statewide objectives for management of ocean resources and their uses, and outline a clear statement of functional responsibility for state ocean resources management.
(i)The exclusive economic zone, the territorial sea, state waters, and terrestrial environments are an interdependent system that has to be managed through a cooperative effort between appropriate federal, state, and local agencies. The fluid, dynamic nature of the ocean and the migration of many of its living resources beyond state and federal boundaries extend the ocean management interests of this state beyond the three-nautical-mile limit currently managed by the state pursuant to the federal Submerged Lands Act (43 U.S.C. Sec. 1301 et seq.).

CAL. RTC. CODE § 36001
The board of supervisors of a county may, as provided in this part, impose any one or any combination of the taxes authorized by this part one time and for one year only. An ordinance imposing a special tax as authorized by this part shall be irrepealable followig its effective date.
CAL. SHC. CODE § 36001
"Parking and business improvement area" or "area" as used in this part means an area designated as provided in this part.

Vacaville
06-20-2010, 4:47 PM
Heck, I probably have a third of that and I consider myself a lightweight shooter. I'm going to assume it's FUD.

Mstrty
06-20-2010, 4:57 PM
Be careful how much and where you live this guy got 72hr mental health detainment for his ammo quantity, which could possibily lead into becoming a prohibited person.
source (http://articles.latimes.com/2007/mar/03/local/me-ammo3)
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Exploding ammunition cache greets firefighters arriving at blaze in Norco
March 03, 2007|Jonathan Abrams, Times Staff WriterFirefighters responding to a house fire in a Norco neighborhood were greeted with a dangerous surprise: gunfire. Lots of it.

Authorities on Thursday found a cache containing more than 1 million rounds of ammunition and 75 firearms, ranging from small handguns to assault rifles, throughout the burning home and in a shaft and tunnel under the garage.


The firefighters realized the stockpile was inside when rounds started going off. No injuries were reported.

"The Fire Department knew exactly what was going on when they heard the sounds," said Riverside County Sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez.

"They knew it wasn't wood crackling over the fire."

The stockpile of ammunition is probably the largest ever confiscated in Riverside County, said Gutierrez.

A neighbor reported the fire Thursday afternoon and had dragged the homeowner, whom deputies did not identify, from the house, Gutierrez said.

The man later attempted to make his way back into the home.

Property records list the homeowner as Thomas McKiernan. Neighbors said McKiernan was a quiet man who had recently separated from his wife.

"We had to hold him down until the police got here and took him into custody," said Norco Fire Battalion Chief Ron Knueven. "He was swinging wildly and throwing some kicks."

Fire officials from Norco and Corona, agents from the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, and Riverside County sheriff's deputies continued to inspect the house Friday. Much of the roof collapsed under the fire.

Authorities are not sure how the blaze started.

Authorities described the homeowner as a survivalist. He was taken for 72-hour psychiatric evaluation, and officials will then decide whether to press charges, Gutierrez said.

The 4-by-8-foot shaft, at least 10 feet deep, extended through the garage foundation, and a tunnel of unknown size ran east toward the house, Gutierrez said. The ammunition was stored in cardboard boxes, wooden crates, plastic bins and large cooking pots.

Gutierrez said 75 pounds of black gunpowder and two semiautomatic assault rifles were also confiscated.

Gutierrez said it was legal to own up to 1 pound of the gunpowder, but illegal to possess the assault rifles.

Authorities are checking the serial numbers of the remaining firearms.

"He could have gotten them from anywhere -- a reputable gun store or a shooting range, but who knows?" said Susan Raichel, spokeswoman for the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

"This isn't a hobby he just picked up last year. He has definitely been doing whatever it is he does for a very long time."

Residents in the quiet neighborhood expressed shock at the findings. Many gathered to view the ammunition accumulated on the homeowner's driveway.

Last April, authorities seized more than 900 guns in the nearby San Bernardino County city of Upland from a man who said he was planning to overthrow Cuban President Fidel Castro.

"That was the closest we've ever seen to something like this," Gutierrez said.

"But we've never seen this much ammunition."

Mssr. Eleganté
06-20-2010, 5:22 PM
Be careful how much and where you live this guy got 72hr mental health detainment for his ammo quantity, which could possibily lead into becoming a prohibited person.

I got the impression that the 72hr mental health detainment was more a result of him assaulting the firefighters because they wouldn't let him back inside his burning home. They would have held him for that even if he was a Beanie Baby collector.

faterikcartman
06-20-2010, 5:24 PM
Hey Cokebottle, I think it is pretty obvious thevic wasn't citing a statute. The OP said he heard 36000 rounds was the limit so thevic's 36001 refers not to a code section but being one over the limit. Whether or not 36000 is really is legal a limit, I have no idea.

Cali-Shooter
06-20-2010, 5:29 PM
I heard somewhere that if you own more than 10k rounds of ammo you should keep your trap shut otherwise the FiB's will have a file on you.

NorCalDustin
06-20-2010, 5:45 PM
Yeah I thought it was 10k...

Cokebottle
06-20-2010, 6:40 PM
Hey Cokebottle, I think it is pretty obvious thevic wasn't citing a statute. The OP said he heard 36000 rounds was the limit so thevic's 36001 refers not to a code section but being one over the limit. Whether or not 36000 is really is legal a limit, I have no idea.
Gotcha.... but if he's going to give an exact number and call it a felony, he should cite PC.

A lot of people (myself included) have referred to 12020's restriction of high-caps as a felony, but it's not.
The confusion on that one comes from the fact that installing a high-cap in a fixed mag gun makes it an AW, which IS a felony.....

But that's how FUD can be innocently started/perpetuated by people with good intentions.

CSACANNONEER
06-20-2010, 7:40 PM
If you can afford that much ammo you probably have several houses
Nope, I don't own a single home.
I heard somewhere that if you own more than 10k rounds of ammo you should keep your trap shut otherwise the FiB's will have a file on you.

I've bought a lot more than that in a single transaction.

Think about it, that's less than two cases of bulk packed .22lr. I once bought two cases of 6500 rounds/case for $97/case. So, for less than $200 I bought 13,000 rounds. This was about 7 years ago. The total Miwall purchase was about $2500 though.

NRAhighpowershooter
06-20-2010, 7:40 PM
36K?? I have just much in 22lr alone..............:D:eek:

Malthusian
06-20-2010, 8:11 PM
Having a gazillion .22's is a given. If one were to have an average range of calibers averaging say approx .50c per round that's $18,000.00. Rifle ammunition would average much higher.

Besides... I was joking

And...

I don't think anyone here has over a million rounds. If they do they have been advised to keep the trap shut

Mssr. Eleganté
06-20-2010, 10:03 PM
If one were to have an average range of calibers averaging say approx .50c per round that's $18,000.00.

You have to remember that 8 years ago 7.62 NATO was only 13¢ per round, 8mm Mauser was only 5¢ per round and 45ACP was only 18¢ per round. The closest I ever got to 50¢ per round was Lake City M118LR from the CMP at less than 47¢ per round delivered back in 2004. :)

thebronze
06-20-2010, 10:08 PM
Gotcha.... but if he's going to give an exact number and call it a felony, he should cite PC.

A lot of people (myself included) have referred to 12020's restriction of high-caps as a felony, but it's not.
The confusion on that one comes from the fact that installing a high-cap in a fixed mag gun makes it an AW, which IS a felony.....

But that's how FUD can be innocently started/perpetuated by people with good intentions.

Or maybe some people shouldn't take some things so literally and lighten up just a little...

Cokebottle
06-20-2010, 10:13 PM
Or maybe some people shouldn't take some things so literally and lighten up just a little...
OP asked a legitimate question, he deserves an honest answer and not parrotted FUD.

We can go to OT to lighten up. This is 2A Politics and Law.

Swiss
06-20-2010, 10:14 PM
I don't have time to do it myself but I'd check the Building Code and Fire Code on storage requirements for certain materials. Local fire departments might have a say as well.

thebronze
06-20-2010, 10:16 PM
OP asked a legitimate question, he deserves an honest answer and not parrotted FUD.

We can go to OT to lighten up. This is 2A Politics and Law.

It wasn't parroted FUD. It was a joke. I'm pretty sure everyone on here got that, except you.

Like I said. Lighten up.

Cokebottle
06-20-2010, 10:29 PM
It wasn't parroted FUD. It was a joke. I'm pretty sure everyone on here got that, except you.

Like I said. Lighten up.
I would agree with it being a joke had he not added the part about it being a felony with no smiley.

Dr Pete
06-20-2010, 10:41 PM
This has been asked and posted before.
Building code has the answers.
From memory.
No limit on ammo.
There is a restriction on black powder & how it must be stored.

glockwise2000
06-20-2010, 10:43 PM
From what I know there are no restrictions to how much ammo you can store.

Is this something new or FUD?

thebronze
06-20-2010, 10:45 PM
I would agree with it being a joke had he not added the part about it being a felony with no smiley.

OH MY GOD!!!!! NO SMILEY!!!!!!

We'd better report him to FUD PD, better known as the Smiley Police.

I'd suggest buying underwear a size bigger. Yours are too tight...

FatalKitty
06-20-2010, 10:50 PM
I got the impression that the 72hr mental health detainment was more a result of him assaulting the firefighters because they wouldn't let him back inside his burning home. They would have held him for that even if he was a Beanie Baby collector.

unreal... he was probably just trying to save his guns or something - and they called him crazy. UNREAL

so on what grounds did the confiscate the ammo? will he get it back if he gets a clear bill of mental health? I see no reason why having legal firearms and legal ammunition is grounds for any sort of detainment or confiscation.

tombinghamthegreat
06-20-2010, 11:13 PM
No limit

Quiet
06-20-2010, 11:54 PM
CA state law only regulates how much gunpowder you can have.


CA H&S Code 12102
This chapter does not apply to any possession or use of 20 pounds or less of smokeless powder, or one pound or less of black sporting powder, provided that:
(a) Smokeless powder is intended only for hand loading of small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.
(b) Black sporting powder is intended for loading of small arms or small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.
(c) All such powder is for private use and not for resale, and, in the case of black sporting powder, there shall be no gift, delivery, or other disposition to another person.
(d) The storage, use and handling of such smokeless and black powder conforms to rules, regulations, or ordinances of authorities having jurisdiction for fire prevention and suppression in the area of such storage, use, and handling of such explosives.

Falstaff
06-21-2010, 12:21 AM
I took the "36 thousand AND 1" post as a joke too....

people are gettin testy lately; here; on the road, around town, at work...I agree, relax- life is too short for all the uptightedness... lighten up old dudes!

turbogg
06-21-2010, 12:39 AM
source (http://articles.latimes.com/2007/mar/03/local/me-ammo3)


And of course they had to mention "assault weapon" at least once in that article. Of course they were "illegal". I hope someone actually checked before making that accusation.
It might have been more dramatic if they had said "Tank busting full military machine gun with 200000 round magazine and attached flame thrower."

limitdown
06-21-2010, 12:48 AM
I have way more ammo than I want to admit....

Baxter
06-21-2010, 12:56 AM
I should be fine since all mine was lost in that tragic boat accident I had. Too bad mt firearms were in that damn boat too. With this economy I can't afford to buy any more, just oggle all of your pictures your guys post up.

Marsoc1
06-21-2010, 7:20 AM
unreal... he was probably just trying to save his guns or something - and they called him crazy. UNREAL

so on what grounds did the confiscate the ammo? will he get it back if he gets a clear bill of mental health? I see no reason why having legal firearms and legal ammunition is grounds for any sort of detainment or confiscation.

i coulda swore that it says somewhere that if a LEA confiscate weapons and ammo, the ammo would not be returned if ur cleared, only the weapons. Even at that with approval from BoF after u make a small payment...

SJgunguy24
06-21-2010, 7:32 AM
i coulda swore that it says somewhere that if a LEA confiscate weapons and ammo, the ammo would not be returned if ur cleared, only the weapons. Even at that with approval from BoF after u make a small payment...

Wow so if they refuse to return the ammo and the total cost is above 500$ IIRC can you have grand theft charges filed against the LEA in question?

If your not selling dope or using illicit funds to pay for your ammo then it is not illegal and shouldn't be subject to any type of seizure

Fay BUddha
06-21-2010, 9:15 AM
I have heard the 10K round thing also. It was not stated as a hard cap but if you go over the 10K cap you need an Arsenal permit. So along that train of thought what would be considered an arsenal?

JHermsen
06-21-2010, 9:29 AM
I'm pretty sure I read this a couple of years ago while working for the S.O. in San Diego Co. limits: Smokeless powder to #16 and Black Powder to <#5. No restrictions on ammo quantity.

SJgunguy24
06-21-2010, 9:36 AM
I have heard the 10K round thing also. It was not stated as a hard cap but if you go over the 10K cap you need an Arsenal permit. So along that train of thought what would be considered an arsenal?

Define Arsenal per CA law please? The only time I ever hear "Arsenal" is when the media reports that someone has their collection taken by law enforcment. The term is "Arsenal" or "Weapons Cache". So what defines that? I've look through the laws and I don't recall seeing anything that defines an Arsenal.

Big E
06-21-2010, 12:14 PM
Lots of stuff (tangents) on this thread.
1) I checked the quantity because someone told me there was a cap and I wanted to know what it was. There's not one.
2) Personally, I have almost enough (pst….that should always be your answer;)).
3) They likely confiscated the ammo as evidence. Fire like that, you didn’t think they were going to just leave it lying around did you. Easiest way for them to deal with it is to confiscate it, now it can be “secured” in a “safe location”.
4) For those getting uptight lately (I’ve been seeing it too), it just means it’s time to head back to the range (p.s. that’s also how I keep my ammo supply in check, because I can’t pass up a deal:D).

novabrian
06-21-2010, 12:16 PM
36001 and its a felony



Damn! Who needs 1 5.56 round?

SPaikmos
06-21-2010, 12:21 PM
Thanks for the clarification folks! Sounds like there's a lot of FUD out there. Sorry if this is an old topic; I tried the search (I swear!) but it is.... shall we say - primitive.

Anyway, my uh... collection of rare and unusual ammo (with many duplicates) doesn't come anywhere close to an arsenal, but I was curious more than anything.

The 10k thing sounds hokey too. How in the hell would the FBI have any clue that you have any amount of ammo? Aside from tracking your credit card or something.... That sounds like more FUD to me.

And I agree- if you need to get some aggression out, take it out on the range!

Uriah02
06-21-2010, 12:39 PM
I remember a similar thread like this a few months ago. I recall the limit for primers being in the 200K range...

stix213
06-21-2010, 12:46 PM
Be careful how much and where you live this guy got 72hr mental health detainment for his ammo quantity, which could possibily lead into becoming a prohibited person.
source (http://articles.latimes.com/2007/mar/03/local/me-ammo3)
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Swinging at the firefighters is obviously the real trigger here for this guy getting the 72hr detainment. And I'm all for gun rights, but 1 million rounds is OCD territory. This guy should probably rent out some place that isn't in a residential neighborhood if he wants to store that quantity of powder and ammo, since he certainly doesn't understand fire safety.

D.M.C.
06-21-2010, 12:58 PM
I didn't take the 36,001 as a joke. I just saw no cited evidence and wrote it off as BS/FUD. This is a resource forum, and you can complain like the classic bad joker that "you were only kidding', but until you make it clear it was a joke, there's going to be some people who take it seriously because they came here for serious answers. And if the reactions to Barkoff in another thread are any indication of acceptable CGF behavior, you should grow some thicker skin when people call you on it. ;-)

YubaRiver
06-21-2010, 1:25 PM
Swinging at the firefighters is obviously the real trigger here for this guy getting the 72hr detainment. And I'm all for gun rights, but 1 million rounds is OCD territory. This guy should probably rent out some place that isn't in a residential neighborhood if he wants to store that quantity of powder and ammo, since he certainly doesn't understand fire safety.


What extra fire hazard?

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/index.cfm#4

Joe
06-21-2010, 1:39 PM
36K?? I have just much in 22lr alone..............:D:eek:

How does it feel to be an idol?

Blood Ocean
06-21-2010, 3:00 PM
I have one million rounds...

tombinghamthegreat
06-21-2010, 5:39 PM
I have heard the 10K round thing also. It was not stated as a hard cap but if you go over the 10K cap you need an Arsenal permit. So along that train of thought what would be considered an arsenal?

FUD

Cokebottle
06-21-2010, 8:10 PM
I have heard the 10K round thing also. It was not stated as a hard cap but if you go over the 10K cap you need an Arsenal permit. So along that train of thought what would be considered an arsenal?
Define Arsenal per CA law please? The only time I ever hear "Arsenal" is when the media reports that someone has their collection taken by law enforcment. The term is "Arsenal" or "Weapons Cache". So what defines that? I've look through the laws and I don't recall seeing anything that defines an Arsenal.
+1

"Arsenal" would refer to weapons storage.
"Magazine" would refer to ordnance storage.

thebronze
06-21-2010, 8:31 PM
Damn! Who needs 1 5.56 round?


DUDE! WHERE'S YOUR SMILEY?

turbosbox
06-21-2010, 8:59 PM
DUDE! WHERE'S YOUR SMILEY?

:D

How's that? I thought the 5.56 comment was funny. I also caught the joke on 36001. I agree, lighten up a bit, but also good manners to put a smiley or j/k for those of us feeling comedy challenged.
There could be a need for one for use in your display:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Rifle_cartridge_comparison.jpg

Does this require a smiley? ;)

Edit: oops, I might have committed that other forum sin of disclaimer: Not my pic... I do NOT own a .50cal which could be illegal in CA

Gunman
06-21-2010, 9:44 PM
I was able to find the following links from the California Department of Industrial Relations. Some limitations on amounts are placed on storage of primers and powder but no limitations are listed for small arms ammunition.

I haven't found anything specific for California residences. Your mileage may also vary due to local regulations, including your home owner's association.:sleeping:

Ammunition:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/5371.html

Primers:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/5374.html

Smokeless Powder:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/5372.html

Black Powder:
http://www.dir.ca.gov/title8/5373.html

-hanko
06-21-2010, 11:06 PM
I didn't take the 36,001 as a joke. I just saw no cited evidence and wrote it off as BS/FUD. This is a resource forum, and you can complain like the classic bad joker that "you were only kidding', but until you make it clear it was a joke, there's going to be some people who take it seriously because they came here for serious answers. And if the reactions to Barkoff in another thread are any indication of acceptable CGF behavior, you should grow some thicker skin when people call you on it. ;-)
In context, it was obviously a joke.;)

Barkoff's issue has nothing to do with the ammo limit.

CGF members MAY have posted opinions on the Barkoff thread, but they were clear to state that they posted their personal views, and did not speak for the CGF in that thread.

Barkoff, imo, did not deserve what he received on that thread.

We're posting on Calguns.net, CGF is an entirely different animal.

Indeed, posting on the web requires a thick hide. As well as a minimal sense of humor. People who take it seriously (as well as those who don't) need a second or third source if they're looking for LEGAL info...do you really think the web is the place to get legal or medical advice you want to stake your freedom or life on??:rolleyes:

Actually, a cop who knows a gunsmith who has 3 cousins posting here is for sure the limit is 36,002...absolute maximum.

-hanko

gazzavc
06-21-2010, 11:17 PM
No , you're all wrong.

The official answer is 7

Any more than that and you should send it to the following address:

"Where has all the ammo gone"
Behind the hot water tank,
3rd Washroom Along
Union Station
Los Angeles
CA 90010

Oh , and almost forgot..:)

thayne
06-21-2010, 11:17 PM
In context, it was obviously a joke.;)

Barkoff's issue has nothing to do with the ammo limit.

CGF members MAY have posted opinions on the Barkoff thread, but they were clear to state that they posted their personal views, and did not speak for the CGF in that thread.

Barkoff, imo, did not deserve what he received on that thread.

We're posting on Calguns.net, CGF is an entirely different animal.

Indeed, posting on the web requires a thick hide. As well as a minimal sense of humor. People who take it seriously (as well as those who don't) need a second or third source if they're looking for LEGAL info...do you really think the web is the place to get legal or medical advice you want to stake your freedom or life on??:rolleyes:

Actually, a cop who knows a gunsmith who has 3 cousins posting here is for sure the limit is 36,002...absolute maximum.

-hanko

I took it as a joke.

Meplat
06-21-2010, 11:43 PM
The black powder is the only thing mentioned that was dangerous and/or illegal. Fixed ammunition cooking off is only dangerous for a few (4 or 5) feet, and even then injuries are minor. If the BP was stored right it was not a problem. Big deal. BTW, in the video I didn't see any attempt being made to put out the fire. Ain't government wonderful, I'm usually a big fan of firemen, they usually take all the risks and more that LEOs get credit for.



Be careful how much and where you live this guy got 72hr mental health detainment for his ammo quantity, which could possibily lead into becoming a prohibited person.
source (http://articles.latimes.com/2007/mar/03/local/me-ammo3)

Kiba
06-22-2010, 9:06 AM
While the state requirements for powder storage & quantities have been covered nobody has mentioned that many homeowners insurance policies place a limit on the amount of ammo and reloading components you can have; exceed that number and they can deny coverage in the event of a claim. It was brought up here before in a thread over a year ago. Granted, you would probably have to file a claim and then the investigator would have to find your ammo before they would deny a claim--but it's worth mentioning.

Also worth mentioning is that many homeowners policies have a cap on maximum reimbursement value for firearms after a loss. Check with your carrier...

Big E
06-22-2010, 9:52 AM
Actually, a cop who knows a gunsmith who has 3 cousins posting here is for sure the limit is 36,002...absolute maximum.

:biggrinjester::rofl2:

YubaRiver
06-22-2010, 9:57 AM
things that make you go hmmmm..

Sorry I didn't drill down far enough in my link.

PDF files on safety

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_200-Smokeless_Powder.pdf

200
Explains the properties of smokeless powders, considerations and recommendations for storage and how to check for deterioration.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_201-Primers.pdf

201
Covers the appropriate general properties of sporting primers, their handling and recommended storage.

http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/SAAMI_ITEM_202-Sporting_Ammunition.pdf

202
Discusses the characteristics of sporting ammunition, its appropriate handling and storage, including characteristics of ammunition caught in a fire.

"Insofar as the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers’
Institute has been able to determine, there have been no substantiated
reports of serious or fatal injuries caused by the discharge
of packaged or loose ammunition in handling or in
fires, regardless of the quantity or type of cartridges or shotshells
involved. SAAMI has no verified report of any fire fighter
hurt by flying bullets or shot pellets in fires involving a sportsman’s
in-the-home personal supply of ammunition, a retail
sporting goods store’s stock, wholesaler’s or distributor’s sizable
inventory, or an in-transit cargo of this product."

Big E
06-22-2010, 10:18 AM
While the state requirements for powder storage & quantities have been covered nobody has mentioned that many homeowners insurance policies place a limit on the amount of ammo and reloading components you can have; exceed that number and they can deny coverage in the event of a claim. It was brought up here before in a thread over a year ago. Granted, you would probably have to file a claim and then the investigator would have to find your ammo before they would deny a claim--but it's worth mentioning.

Also worth mentioning is that many homeowners policies have a cap on maximum reimbursement value for firearms after a loss. Check with your carrier...

That's why the Military Surp. Ammo Boxes (steel, not wood) are so good. I've never heard of one of those not surviving a fire when storing regular ammo (excluding powder of course). But please correct me if I’m wrong and a pic would be nice.

P.S. The link above to the Fire Department testing is the perfect example of how safe ammo really is……outside the gun. Just don’t run over it with a tank and beat it with a hammer, because everyone have both of those at their house.:)

RUM
06-22-2010, 10:32 AM
Gun attorney Bruce Colodny's website says having more than 20 lbs of smokeless powder in Ca. is a felony

http://www.gunlaw.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=28

-hanko
06-22-2010, 11:45 AM
Gun attorney Bruce Colodny's website says having more than 20 lbs of smokeless powder in Ca. is a felony

http://www.gunlaw.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=17&Itemid=28
CPC 12102...

12102. This chapter does not apply to any possession or use of 20 pounds or less of smokeless powder, or one pound or less of black
sporting powder, provided that:

(a) Smokeless powder is intended only for hand loading of small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.

(b) Black sporting powder is intended for loading of small arms or small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.

(c) All such powder is for private use and not for resale, and, in the case of black sporting powder, there shall be no gift, delivery,
or other disposition to another person.

(d) The storage, use and handling of such smokeless and black powder conforms to rules, regulations, or ordinances of authorities
having jurisdiction for fire prevention and suppression in the area of such storage, use, and handling of such explosives.

Not a lot if you're seriously reloading;). Wondering if I can posses the max, wife posses max, Mom, Dad, etc.?? Looks like a bunch of powder gets an eastbound road trip this weekend.

-hanko

RUM
06-22-2010, 1:28 PM
Yeah, is the 20lb max. per person or per house??

GrayWolf09
06-22-2010, 1:39 PM
CPC 12102...

12102. This chapter does not apply to any possession or use of 20 pounds or less of smokeless powder, or one pound or less of black
sporting powder, provided that:

(a) Smokeless powder is intended only for hand loading of small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.

(b) Black sporting powder is intended for loading of small arms or small arms ammunition of .75 caliber or less.

(c) All such powder is for private use and not for resale, and, in the case of black sporting powder, there shall be no gift, delivery,
or other disposition to another person.

(d) The storage, use and handling of such smokeless and black powder conforms to rules, regulations, or ordinances of authorities
having jurisdiction for fire prevention and suppression in the area of such storage, use, and handling of such explosives.

Not a lot if you're seriously reloading;). Wondering if I can posses the max, wife posses max, Mom, Dad, etc.?? Looks like a bunch of powder gets an eastbound road trip this weekend.

-hanko

Actually its California Health and Safety Code not California Penal Code. But the section and the text are accurate.

OlderThanDirt
06-22-2010, 1:58 PM
That's why the Military Surp. Ammo Boxes (steel, not wood) are so good. I've never heard of one of those not surviving a fire when storing regular ammo (excluding powder of course). But please correct me if I’m wrong and a pic would be nice.

P.S. The link above to the Fire Department testing is the perfect example of how safe ammo really is……outside the gun. Just don’t run over it with a tank and beat it with a hammer, because everyone have both of those at their house.:)

I've been waiting for this to be a problem:

Firefighter Injured In Blaze Loses An Eye (http://cbs2.com/local/Firefighter.Injured.In.2.1646511.html)

This story completely distorted the facts when compared to the original story in the Ventura County Star:

Firefighter recovering from eye surgery after fire (http://www.vcstar.com/news/2010/apr/06/firefighter-recovering-from-eye-surgery-monday/?partner=popular)

Unfortunately a follow-up story in the Star went with the ammo as the cause instead of exploding propane cylinders:

Injured firefighter 'knew in my gut' it was bad (http://www.vcstar.com/news/2010/apr/23/firefighter-recounts-moments-after-injury-moving/)

I'm sure someone is saying there ought to be a law...

Big E
06-22-2010, 5:28 PM
I've been waiting for this to be a problem:

Firefighter Injured In Blaze Loses An Eye (http://cbs2.com/local/Firefighter.Injured.In.2.1646511.html)

This story completely distorted the facts when compared to the original story in the Ventura County Star:

Firefighter recovering from eye surgery after fire (http://www.vcstar.com/news/2010/apr/06/firefighter-recovering-from-eye-surgery-monday/?partner=popular)

Unfortunately a follow-up story in the Star went with the ammo as the cause instead of exploding propane cylinders:

Injured firefighter 'knew in my gut' it was bad (http://www.vcstar.com/news/2010/apr/23/firefighter-recounts-moments-after-injury-moving/)

I'm sure someone is saying there ought to be a law...

Still would like to see some pics of it. I guess I just could believe the storage can expanded if that's what a fire fighter said they had seen, but dog-gone-it I still need to see for myself. I've seen 22 ammo "cook off", but never seen an ammo box "expand like jiffy-pop".

novabrian
06-22-2010, 9:25 PM
I'm am finally done with my ammo sorting and storing!
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu219/ed_elizabethan/myammostockpile.jpg

thebronze
06-22-2010, 9:38 PM
I'm am finally done with my ammo sorting and storing!
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu219/ed_elizabethan/myammostockpile.jpg

Mad props on that ammo collection!

Cokebottle
06-22-2010, 9:41 PM
I'm am finally done with my ammo sorting and storing!
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu219/ed_elizabethan/myammostockpile.jpg
It's such a shame that all of that was lost in a tragic boating accident :D ;)

SPaikmos
06-22-2010, 11:05 PM
I'm am finally done with my ammo sorting and storing!
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu219/ed_elizabethan/myammostockpile.jpg

O......M...........G!!!!

If I had 1/100 of that, I would be psyched!
I'd love to see what you have in the safe...
But this isn't the thread for that!!!!! Ah well, I guess we answered the question. No state limit, maybe HOA or HO insurance.

Carry on with the ammo cache pics!

Big E
06-23-2010, 8:38 AM
:oAlright, now I have an ammo deficiency complex.:o

elrcastor
06-23-2010, 8:35 PM
:oAlright, now I have an ammo deficiency complex.:o

That makes 2 of us!!